ron obvious 1,473 Posted September 9, 2014 http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/sep/09/queens-park-rangers-football-league-ffp“Now QPR will of course be hoping it does not happen for some considerable number of seasons but the chances they will need to return to the Football League fold at some point. Certainly, three of the 20 clubs that are in the Premier League will be in the Football League next season.”They seem to be suggesting that at least 3 teams will be relegated from the Prem. - or am I misunderstanding? How would this affect us? Would they reinstate the relegated teams??I''m confused Brian. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted September 9, 2014 No, they are saying that 3 of the 20 will definitely reappear in the football league next season, the same as every season.I guess the point implied is that even if QPR refuse to pay the fine and are not relegated this season, eventually they will be and then they will be refused admission. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ricardo 7,239 Posted September 9, 2014 Seems like they won''t be re-admitted to the Champs unless they pay the fine.Hopefully McNally is fully cognisant with the FFP rules and how that will affect us this season. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PurpleCanary 5,530 Posted September 9, 2014 [quote user="ron obvious"]http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/sep/09/queens-park-rangers-football-league-ffp“Now QPR will of course be hoping it does not happen for some considerable number of seasons but the chances they will need to return to the Football League fold at some point. Certainly, three of the 20 clubs that are in the Premier League will be in the Football League next season.”They seem to be suggesting that at least 3 teams will be relegated from the Prem. - or am I misunderstanding? How would this affect us? Would they reinstate the relegated teams??I''m confused Brian.[/quote]Ron, I think (note the "think") the fuller quote makes it sort of clear that Harvey is talking more theoretically about the fact that clubs in the Premier will - unlike QPR and their idiot management - have to get used to keeping wages in check because sooner or later they will get relegated and this prbelm will recur and recur:The Football League chief executive, Shaun Harvey, said he was “satisfied” that it would be able to charge QPR for a breach of the rules while they were still part of the competition and that the ultimate sanction would be to refuse re-admission."Theoretically, that is the position but I would hope there would be resolution long before that option even had to be considered. The one thing for certain is that most clubs [in the Premier League] will become a Football League club again,” said Harvey, speaking at the Soccerex conference in Manchester.“Now QPR will of course be hoping it does not happen for some considerable number of seasons but the chances they will need to return to the Football League fold at some point. Certainly, three of the 20 clubs that are in the Premier League will be in the Football League next season."He is not, i think, there talking about some possible conundrum in which three teams get relegated and then QPR are also relegated by way of a tribunal. Talking of which, anyone who read through the report of that tribunal in the QPR-Faurlin case will know that QPR got very lucky there (they should have been docked points) and yet seemed not to have learned any kind of lesson. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bill 1,788 Posted September 9, 2014 ll League are setting themselves up here, and will have to win any court battle over this to retain credibility - and to also retain any worth in the league structure.If somebody can simply take over a club, put in umpteen millions achievee promotion then in makes it pretty much pointless for the rest.The result of this will determine pretty much how the Eglish game goes for the next few years. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ron obvious 1,473 Posted September 9, 2014 Ah, I.S., I see, they''re just talking about the normal relegation process. I wonder how many other Prem teams will have to pay fines though? And can they afford them? Rich pickings ahead for the lawyers I reckon. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PurpleCanary 5,530 Posted September 9, 2014 [quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="ron obvious"]http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/sep/09/queens-park-rangers-football-league-ffp“Now QPR will of course be hoping it does not happen for some considerable number of seasons but the chances they will need to return to the Football League fold at some point. Certainly, three of the 20 clubs that are in the Premier League will be in the Football League next season.”They seem to be suggesting that at least 3 teams will be relegated from the Prem. - or am I misunderstanding? How would this affect us? Would they reinstate the relegated teams??I''m confused Brian.[/quote]Ron, I think (note the "think") the fuller quote makes it sort of clear that Harvey is talking more theoretically about the fact that clubs in the Premier will - unlike QPR and their idiot management - have to get used to keeping wages in check because sooner or later they will get relegated and this prbelm will recur and recur:The Football League chief executive, Shaun Harvey, said he was “satisfied” that it would be able to charge QPR for a breach of the rules while they were still part of the competition and that the ultimate sanction would be to refuse re-admission."Theoretically, that is the position but I would hope there would be resolution long before that option even had to be considered. The one thing for certain is that most clubs [in the Premier League] will become a Football League club again,” said Harvey, speaking at the Soccerex conference in Manchester.“Now QPR will of course be hoping it does not happen for some considerable number of seasons but the chances they will need to return to the Football League fold at some point. Certainly, three of the 20 clubs that are in the Premier League will be in the Football League next season."He is not, I think, there talking about some possible conundrum in which three teams get relegated and then QPR are also relegated by way of a tribunal. Talking of which, anyone who read through the report of that tribunal in the QPR-Faurlin case will know that QPR got very lucky there (they should have been docked points) and yet seemed not to have learned any kind of lesson.[/quote]It is not quite as I thought. A paragraph in the Daily Mail makes it much clearer:QPR would not need to worry about this [not paying the fine] as long as they stayed in the Premier League. But as and when they were relegated at any stage in the future, whether that is next May, or next year or in a few years, they would face effective expulsion from league football because the League would not let them in. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bill 1,788 Posted September 9, 2014 the big shame of this is that the fines will disappear to charities, when the sums being talked about would do wonders for grass roots football Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrs miggins 0 Posted September 9, 2014 football isn''t really that important when charities are considered Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bill 1,788 Posted September 9, 2014 Eton college is a charity Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Masked Raccoon 0 Posted September 9, 2014 Harry Redknapp and his wheeler dealings and clubs in peril shocker regarding money? Shame they got up via the play-offs, they''d be crippled now Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrs miggins 0 Posted September 9, 2014 so is oxfam, dearie me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZLF 261 Posted September 10, 2014 I think I read that QPR have a 1st Dec deadline for the fine to be paid Can the prem league close the door to relegation to stop QPR going straight to non league?? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bill 1,788 Posted September 10, 2014 [quote user="ZippersLeftFoot"]I think I read that QPR have a 1st Dec deadline for the fine to be paid Can the prem league close the door to relegation to stop QPR going straight to non league??[/quote]so would there be only be two relegated clubs ?what would happen to the 4 Championship clubs in the play offs - would the play offs not go ahead ?or if there are more than one club in the same position, what then ?no relegated clubs ?and how would the other two two relegated clubs react, if they went down ad QPR didn''t .... because QPR broke the rules ?what would be the effect on the relegation games if QPR knew they could not be relegated ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
star_manic 0 Posted September 10, 2014 [quote user="City1st"][quote user="ZippersLeftFoot"]I think I read that QPR have a 1st Dec deadline for the fine to be paid Can the prem league close the door to relegation to stop QPR going straight to non league??[/quote]so would there be only be two relegated clubs ?what would happen to the 4 Championship clubs in the play offs - would the play offs not go ahead ?or if there are more than one club in the same position, what then ?no relegated clubs ?and how would the other two two relegated clubs react, if they went down ad QPR didn''t .... because QPR broke the rules ?what would be the effect on the relegation games if QPR knew they could not be relegated ?[/quote]If that situation was true City 1st, then all QPR would have to do to guarantee not being relegated would to fail to pay the fine. I cannot see that being allowed somehow. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Number 9 0 Posted September 10, 2014 Sorry if its a stupid question,How much is the fine? & what specifically was it for? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Butler 0 Posted September 10, 2014 I thought there was a law that stopped you gaining from the proceeds of a "crime"In this case you break the rules, gain advantage by so doing and if the worst comes to the worst, pay the fine from the extra prem money gained!Fines should be enforced BEFORE promotion is allowed.Then again this is football not the real world.[;)] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ricardo 7,239 Posted September 10, 2014 The fine is 40 million quid. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tetteys Jig 830 Posted September 10, 2014 Meh, they gambled, it worked. Portsmouth gambled it failed eventually, Leeds did, it failed, Chelsea did, it worked.If you want to take the risks then so be it. I''d rather stick to our way of being run, not some false economy. QPR haven''t got the infrastructure to go anywhere in the near future and naturally they will come tumbling down again.I can sympathise with Fernandes in that they had the big earners from the premiership last time to deal with. It''s not like they can just be magically all shifted once you are relegated. What would someone like Man City do if they got relegated? They would no doubt be breaking the rules straight away! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BroadstairsR 2,093 Posted September 10, 2014 We are somewhat immune as we have parachute payments to count towards income. This advantage is just one complainants of the combination if these and FFP beef about. It does seem pretty unfair in some ways, but I suppose that''s another argument and as long as we can bask in the sunshine whilst clubs like ITFC seem to be caught between a rock and a hard place then you''ll get no complaints from me. It does, however, emphasise the importance of a speedy return though. It also explains why the biggest Championship spenders this Summer have been relegated sides, Fulham''s £11m outlay on one player for example and Adams and OGS have got through a bit ..... minus income from sales, of course. Any Championship clubs who overspent last season will have a transfer embargo to contend with next season I seem to recall. In these ways the Premier League is gradually becoming the ''closed shop'' that many have always predicted and as long as we are the right side of that door things will be forever rosy. Otherwise, we drift into mid-Championship mediocrity. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ricardo 7,239 Posted September 10, 2014 [quote user="Jimmy Smith"]Meh, they gambled, it worked. Portsmouth gambled it failed eventually, Leeds did, it failed, Chelsea did, it worked.If you want to take the risks then so be it. I''d rather stick to our way of being run, not some false economy. QPR haven''t got the infrastructure to go anywhere in the near future and naturally they will come tumbling down again.I can sympathise with Fernandes in that they had the big earners from the premiership last time to deal with. It''s not like they can just be magically all shifted once you are relegated. What would someone like Man City do if they got relegated? They would no doubt be breaking the rules straight away![/quote]Why do you sympathise with Fernandes? He must have known that by keeping the squad on Premier wages he would be in breach of FFP.It''s just another case of QPR thinking they can bend the rules with impunity. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PurpleCanary 5,530 Posted September 10, 2014 [quote user="Jimmy Smith"]Meh, they gambled, it worked. Portsmouth gambled it failed eventually, Leeds did, it failed, Chelsea did, it worked.If you want to take the risks then so be it. I''d rather stick to our way of being run, not some false economy. QPR haven''t got the infrastructure to go anywhere in the near future and naturally they will come tumbling down again.I can sympathise with Fernandes in that they had the big earners from the premiership last time to deal with. It''s not like they can just be magically all shifted once you are relegated. What would someone like Man City do if they got relegated? They would no doubt be breaking the rules straight away![/quote]No sympathy at all. It was Fernandes who decided all that money should be spent on high-wage players in those two seasons they had in the Premier League. It was Fernandes who decided it would be a good idea to hire a manager (Renknapp) known for extravagance and who waas pretty much bound to use that strategy again. This problem is entirely of Fernandes'' making. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZLF 261 Posted September 10, 2014 Impossible for me to have any sympathy for clubs knowingly flouting the laws. Poorly worded question re pl closing door an relegation, meant to stop any promotion and become a closed shop. I was amazed that the pl was able to dictate to the league how fines should be spent for rules and a competition unassociated to them. And where are their own FFP rules? PL seem to take FIFA as the example of a sound moral compass Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ricardo 7,239 Posted September 10, 2014 [quote user="ZippersLeftFoot"]Impossible for me to have any sympathy for clubs knowingly flouting the laws. Poorly worded question re pl closing door an relegation, meant to stop any promotion and become a closed shop. I was amazed that the pl was able to dictate to the league how fines should be spent for rules and a competition unassociated to them. And where are their own FFP rules? PL seem to take FIFA as the example of a sound moral compass[/quote]The PL has the money so the PL has the power.As you may know, I have often argued that the PL is likely to eventually become a closed league. It seemed the logical outcome when it was first proposed in the 1980''s. I''m only surprised that it hasn''t happened yet but I think we are getting there in tiny steps.It will be a disaster if we are on the wrong side of the line when and if that time comes. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
paul moy 235 Posted September 10, 2014 So it appears that FFP is starting to have the desired effect. Only last week I was reading about Monaco and their billionaire benefactor who has been forced to sell/loan players such as Falcao due to the fact that Monaco are unsustainable under FFP with their small crowds. All good for a club the size of Norwich !!!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PurpleCanary 5,530 Posted September 10, 2014 [quote user="paul moy"]So it appears that FFP is starting to have the desired effect. Only last week I was reading about Monaco and their billionaire benefactor who has been forced to sell/loan players such as Falcao due to the fact that Monaco are unsustainable under FFP with their small crowds. All good for a club the size of Norwich !!!!![/quote]My impression is that, as I suspected, Uefa is taking FFP seriously and so is the Football League. Whether the Premier League is doing so seems less clear for now. It is very early days. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
paul moy 235 Posted September 10, 2014 [quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="paul moy"]So it appears that FFP is starting to have the desired effect. Only last week I was reading about Monaco and their billionaire benefactor who has been forced to sell/loan players such as Falcao due to the fact that Monaco are unsustainable under FFP with their small crowds. All good for a club the size of Norwich !!!!![/quote]My impression is that, as I suspected, Uefa is taking FFP seriously and so is the Football League. Whether the Premier League is doing so seems less clear for now. It is very early days.[/quote]Perhaps EUFA should threaten sanctions against clubs from the PL in Europe unless they start taking FFP seriously. That will wake them up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PurpleCanary 5,530 Posted September 10, 2014 [quote user="paul moy"][quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="paul moy"]So it appears that FFP is starting to have the desired effect. Only last week I was reading about Monaco and their billionaire benefactor who has been forced to sell/loan players such as Falcao due to the fact that Monaco are unsustainable under FFP with their small crowds. All good for a club the size of Norwich !!!!![/quote]My impression is that, as I suspected, Uefa is taking FFP seriously and so is the Football League. Whether the Premier League is doing so seems less clear for now. It is very early days.[/quote]Perhaps EUFA should threaten sanctions against clubs from the PL in Europe unless they start taking FFP seriously. That will wake them up. [/quote]That is one of the Uefa sanctions, and arguably the main one. That if you break FFP you can be excluded from European competitions. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
paul moy 235 Posted September 10, 2014 [quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="paul moy"][quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="paul moy"]So it appears that FFP is starting to have the desired effect. Only last week I was reading about Monaco and their billionaire benefactor who has been forced to sell/loan players such as Falcao due to the fact that Monaco are unsustainable under FFP with their small crowds. All good for a club the size of Norwich !!!!![/quote]My impression is that, as I suspected, Uefa is taking FFP seriously and so is the Football League. Whether the Premier League is doing so seems less clear for now. It is very early days.[/quote]Perhaps EUFA should threaten sanctions against clubs from the PL in Europe unless they start taking FFP seriously. That will wake them up. [/quote]That is one of the Uefa sanctions, and arguably the main one. That if you break FFP you can be excluded from European competitions.[/quote]True, but I''m thinking of a more generally applied sanction against the whole PL for condoning the flouting of fines implemented from other Leagues, such as in the QPR case. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BroadstairsR 2,093 Posted September 10, 2014 Stolen from enemy despatches;Interesting. http://www.wsc.co.uk/wsc-daily/1186-september-2014/11861-financial-fair-play-to- Share this post Link to post Share on other sites