The Worthington era draws to a close..........

[Tumbleweed 106]

Well this may be premature but I have scoured the reports and Boards for info on the game. It will be interesting to hear the views of those who were lucky (?) enough to go.

NW has spent more money than any other in the history of this football club, yet the naivety and lack of fundemental footballing nous is now costing us very dear. All those who argue about Cardiff 02, the Championship trophy and a season in the Prem should turn cold at the fact that we are now in a lower league position than when he took over having played arguably two of our supposedly easier games and one against an opponent which has had its guts ripped out.

I firmly believe that once a manager hits the heights but starts to decline the end should be near. Very very few manage to halt a decline and recreate their glory years. It happens to them all at some stage whether its one season or many. Some start slowly, some have extended success before it kicks in, but slowly and surely the manager will lose the ability to take that side any further.

Its not just Nigel. Shambolic tactical decisions, strange formations, and odd transfers are but a part. Its the management behind which is failing to a greater extent, a subject on which I posted only recently. But even this is partly Nigel''s fault- as manager he has the management team he feels comfortable with. If it ain''t working its up to him to change it.

4 games gone you will say and no need for hysterics. I say that the evidence has been building since the Championship winning season where the basics faults were little cuts waiting to fester into open wounds.

We have some of the highest quality players here that we have had for many many years, probably since 1993-4. The management is now consistently failing to exploit the potential of what we have. It is imperative to recognise that past history is no guarantee of future success, to cast aside those whose time is past.

We are approaching that stage now. Hit posts and dodgy penalties should not be allowed to cloud the fact that difficult decisions lie ahead for our club''s Board of Directors. They have had some good years, but now is their first real test (even Hamilton did their work for them by resigning).

The question is: are they up to it?

[Dean Coneys boots 1,398]

OTT I think!

Norwich have been unlucky. The woodwork hit on man occasions. I feel that once we gat the monkey off our backs we will go from strength to strength.

 

Patience

 

[king of latvia 0]

IM FED UP WITH THESES THREADS.

IF IT HAPPENS  WHO WOULD YOU BRING IN.?

 

[chocolate nutter 0]

I totally agree i thought the season we won promation NW was very lucky and what he achieved was down to the fact that other teams around us dropped points when we were picking them up,don''t get me wrong bringing in hucks was a master stroke but i think that NW is missing that final bit of knowledge which sets you apart from a run of the mill manager.

As has been said we have a strong side which with someone in charge who knows what there doing we can go back up but i don''t think that man is NW!!!!.

[Canary Poirot 1]

I am beginning to come around to your way of thinking on this point. Things are looking grim at the moment. But I would give him a little bit longer. We have been unlucky a little bit in the last couple of games. But we do still need to start winning.

And if people start saying "who could we bring in?" Well I''m certain that if Worthington did go, then we certainly wouldn''t be short of applicants. And I think you''d be surprised at the quality of some of them. And how about approaching another manager? Martin Allen at Brentford has done wonders for them with virtually no money. He looks like the new kid on the block to me. Could he be the man to take us up?

[alex_ncfc 647]

I don''t think they are upto it.

I just can''t see them having the guts. I remember Delia being upset after Hamilton resigned. Imagine where we could be if he hadn''t?

They will stick by Worthington through thick and thin, and the people wearing their yellow and green spectacles will come on here and say that we should do the same. But the results and table do not lie. We are down in the lower reaches of the division. It''s early days only in theory. In practice, our rivals are starting to pull away and we are going to be playing catch up. Last season it took us 15 games to get a win. The board will stick with him this season if the same happens again.

Worthington has taken Norwich as far as he can, which is my opinion, and, as the board will not change a thing, we are in for a difficult season.

[ronbol ronbol 0]

so we haven''t started well!

If we had 20,000 season ticket holders like you we''d have a new manager every 4 weeks.
we''ve been down that road and it don''t work, stability is what we have and should keep with.

So do we sack a manager after 4 games!!!
I am sure the players don''t like losing, the manager dosen''t like it and fickle fans like yourself sure as damm don''t like losing.

some of your points are valid some are plain stupid, it may take 10 to 12 games to find form and turn the corner. If it goes beyond that then maybe just maybe we need to re-think.

Ohh then theres the small matter of Nigels long and expensive contract.................

stay focused, back the team.................all will come right.

[Misery Guts 0]

I didn''t go today , so I can''t really talk but from what I''ve seen Norwich have been unlucky not to have at least won once. The sort of rubbish that constantly pops on this board is highly unfair and often posted by people who don''t go to the games, for example , anyone who went to the crewe or crystal palace game would say we were unlucky not to have won by a couple of goals . I must admit , I''m not pleased about Morrison or whatever''s going on between Mckenzie or Worthington but that''s part and parcel of football management , all I would ask is for people to consider Mick Mccarthy and his Sunderland team who couldn''t buy a win but with patience and stabillity , they find themselves in the top leauge , we have to get used to playing crap teams again and that will take time , Nigel Worthington is not a tactical genius but he is superb at getting momentum and getting the players commited , this team is too good not to challenge for the top six and I think after our first win at MK Dons we''ll be back to winning ways again.

[Yellow Fever 0]

10 - 12 games is quarter of the season gone. The league started four games ago, we haven''t time to "find our feet" - they should have been found before the visit from Coventry.

Every manager has a shelf life, as the starter of this thread has correctly said, and i''m afraid Worthy has reached his sell-by date. The lack of tactical knowledge has been apparent for years now, particularly with with regard to defensive marking and communication. Now, we see another worrying situation of attempts to invest in the one position that we do not need replacements in.

Our midfield is shambolic at present, as it was last season too. The departure of Gary Holt and belated arrival of Safri took the pressure off Worthy last season, but it was only the boos and negative press aimed at the ginger one which forced Worthy to implement a reluctant change. Why does he not see so many of our weaknesses for himself?

We have a fairly new team and for that reason I agree that Nigel should be given a little longer to gel the team, but i''m afraid the league won''t sit back and wait for us until we''re ready to play. On paper we have possibly the best side in the league, therefore there''s no excuse not to be challenging for top place by Christmas.

[charlies dad 0]

Careful, worthy out posts are hissed at very quickly on here. We, as supporters have a right to be upset about the diabolical start to the season. As it stands we are in grave danger of blowing all of the advantages that we entered the season holding over the rest of the division. Today encapsulates the poor tactics perfectly, Huckerby is not a central striker, and using him as such negates Ashtons effectiveness. Use of the term ''sloppy'' time and again, denotes lazy attitudes in the team, perhaps poor motivation.

The summer signings are looking at best ordinary, at worst, money wasted, just what is Jarrett GOOD AT? does he pass? does he score? does he break up play? Tuesday will be interesting, the traditional KO at the first hurdle to get out of a ''nuisance competition'' ? Not recommended Nigel. At the moment, i stand just in the corner hoping worthy will turn it round immediately and we will embark on a massive unbeaten run proving all doubters wrong. But be warned Mr worthington and everyone at carrow road, patience is wearing very thin.

[Tumbleweed 106]

Time after time after time we make the same mistakes and faults go unrectified. I am getting fed up with seeing it before my own eyes. My point is that it''s not just 4 games, its 18 months plus.

And it may not necessarily be Nigel. I have no knowledge of workings at Colney but maybe its as simple as a change/restructuring in coach.

Whatever happens, we are not far away from being a very good team. But so we were last season, and the season before we were blinded because we didn''t actually dominate as many games that that final points difference suggested.

WBA had the courage last season to do something. Its clear that things are not right on the pitch or we would be stuffing everybody so far with the calibre of player we have. We have not done so and on the three home games I have seen we have been a long long way from doing so (does anyvbody remember that Crewe had three very good chances before half time in addition to their goal?)

Most supporters thought that 10 games in we would review it. Well that time will come upon us fast.

[Andrew Polley<IMG src="http:new.pinkun.comforumsimagesline.gif"><BR>Andy P.<BR> 0]

I have said this before...   Anyone who thinks Worthington is the problem, does not know anything about football. It is consistency that will be the key to our overall success. We must not be one of those club''s that sacks its manager, because of a run of poor form (on papar). The Club has gone through a major change in fortunes, from Prem to CCC. You can only plan for this so much, but the management of the Club and all its staff are all needing to re-adjust.

As for the players, they still need time to gel. In order to allow this to happen as quickly as possible, we the true fans, should be showing patience and solidarity.

I am also confident that Nigel has NOT concluded all of his transfer dealings. He has always carried these out the PROPER  way, that is, in private. We only know about Morrison BEFORE he has signed, because Birmingham told the press NOT Norwich. Morrison is available now, but I do not know of any midfielders or defenders better than we have now that are available now, this week. Nigel knows the priorities better than ANY of us, but that does not mean he can simply pick up the phone, get the right players in the right order etc.

If results are still poor at Christmas, then fair enough, perhaps time for more radical changes.

[Massimo Venta Icenorum 0]

Get out now your times up Mr Worthington

[We need a Manager 0]

MICHAEL BROWN

[ZLF 271]

[quote]Time after time after time we make the same mistakes and faults go unrectified. I am getting fed up with seeing it before my own eyes. My point is that it''s not just 4 games, its 18 months plus. And ...[/quote]

This squad, with exception of a bit more midfield cover as a matter of urgency, is good enough to secure promotion if the attitude of the players is right and we employ tactics that can win us games.

The fact that wehave started poorly and sit in 20th place reflects on the manager inability to identify the weaknesses in the side over a period of a dozen months.  If he had seen these weaknesses (and used common sense to tell him that three central midfielders will not last him a season (Hughes injured means Safri and Jarrett with no back up  - thats what only three central midfielders means)) then he could address them on the practice field and would have focussed on signing a midfielder with over £2m in his pocket (far more than I thought he had).

However until he sees the teams failings (because he only focus'' on effort not quality?) he cannot even start to uses his coaching prowess to put the things right.  

I can only assume he has not seen any defencive shortcomings as he has signed no one to strengthen the team in this position during the close season.  In addition he cannot have been coaching on defence otherwise sometihng would have changed in 6-9 months - either that or he cant coach...  Either way it looks bad for worthy and the management team.

I do not (yet) support a worthy out campaign but as the learned tumbleweed rightly points out very very very few managers can actually turn around a team in decline.  He still has my 10-12 games to prove me wrong but the sands of time are slipping past quickly....

Defensive changes, in practice if not personnel,  and a midfield signing in time for Leeds are a minimum change for leeds. 

OTBC  

[0ridgemanddMMyyyy0Falseen-USTrue 0]

[quote]I have said this before... Anyone who thinks Worthington is the problem, does not know anything about football. It is consistency that will be the key to our overall success. We must not be one of t...[/quote]

So anyone who thinks Worthington is the problem knows nothing about football what a statement. We are all entitled to our opinions and it is the varied nature of our opinions that make football what it is. To say we know nothing about football does this mean you know everything!

[3pmkickoff 0]

This is the SEASON where Worthy proves his worth, I''m disappointed at the start we''ve made but Sunderland won the league last season and didn''t really get going for a while. I think we really need to see where we''re at come xmas. If we''re near the top then it''s all good

I just hope that Nigel has plans for improvements before the transfer deadline as it''s obvious that the midfield is missing a Francis kind of player. As Joni Mitchell said - you don''t know wht you''ve got till it''s gone

[Dizzy Rascal 0]

Why did he start with 1 up front? The partnership of Deano and McKenzie worked so well; but we go to southampton with a defensive formation which is rubbish. If he wants to play 4-5-1 he should''ve done it last season, not against a lacklustre saints side. Why did he play Brennan!? Ok he had a couple of good shots, especially one near the end. I''ll give Worthington a couple more games before i make any judgements, but they''ve let us down. I think we have wimbledon next in League Cup and then Leeds at home.

[Dame to Blame 95]

[quote]I totally agree i thought the season we won promation NW was very lucky and what he achieved was down to the fact that other teams around us dropped points when we were picking them up,don''t get me wr...[/quote]

How can you be lucky over 46 games dear o dear what tosh .

[salp 0]

as a long-standing season ticket holder, what do I know?

but why in each half do we seem to play down the pitch nearest to the dugout all the fekking time until Hucks finally goes for it on the other wing? 

 

 

 

 

 

[Herb 0]

[quote]Get out now your times up Mr Worthington[/quote]

How eloquent. What a fine point so well argued.
If you haven''t got anything to contribute, why bother?

[ronbol ronbol 0]

[quote]Time after time after time we make the same mistakes and faults go unrectified. I am getting fed up with seeing it before my own eyes. My point is that it''s not just 4 games, its 18 months plus. And ...[/quote]

But of course during those 18 months we gained promotion by nearly beating all the teams that were put in front of us.
During the last part of our premiership campaign we played some very slick football pulling the mighty man u and others all over the place.
I say this much, some supporters have short memories.

[The Great Drinkell 50]

I have recently been find my job a little tough going after a few good years. I''m no different or trying less hard than before I just need a break then things will start going again. I just pray that the poster on this thread our not my bosses!!!

[FatMan Fat 0]

I can only agree with much of Tumbleweed''s post.

However, people keep saying that we currently have a squad that on paper looks as good as anything we have had for a long time. I actually don''t know that that is true. Last season''s squad was, in my opinion, better than what we have now. We had a golden opportunity to stay up last year but personal squabbles, poor tactics and poor selections contrived to get us relegated. The manager has to take responsibility for the fact that we couldn''t score a single away win, that we had such a poor "goals for" tally and such an appalling "goals against" result.

Moving into this season virtually all supporters said that we had an attack that would rip other teams apart, and on paper so they should. So, why haven''t they? Mainly due to a midfield that is almost incapable of creative play. The manager and his staff are responsible for the midfield that we currently have and for the way that we play.  If they cannot get the players to perform in a different way then clearly the manager and his staff are incapable of "managing" the team.

Add to that the fact that we cannot keep a clean sheet at the back and matters become even more concerning.

The scary thing is that season''s results should not be seen in isolation, they are a continuation of all that was bad last season and negative, downhill, momentum is a powerful beast. It is not enough to say "get behind your team and support the Club" - that alone will have absolutely no effect on what is happening on and off the field. We are in very grave danger of sinking into lower table obscurity with no upward momentum and no concerted, continuous, positive impetus.  I find it very disturbing that so many continue to think that our situation is OK -look at the facts, look at the results, it isn''t ok and changes, whatever they be, need to be made before it is too late.

 

[Cymru Canary 0]

Premature I think, we were unlucky today, although I do not think either side played well. Ashtons first touch was non existent, hucks was wasted when he was not out wide.

Positives from the game were Thornes performance when he came on, he will prove to be a valuable asset as the season gets going and I am sure he will bag a few.

As for Worthy to go, NO WAY. Remember the position we were in when we made the play off finals,we were nowhere to be seen at xmas let alone 4 games in!!!

Worthy is close to building a squad to get us out of this league and have players in it who can make the jump back up,its a marathon not a sprint like the prem league.

OTBC!!!!!!!! PS good to see the Waddison boys at Soton, long time since New York SMALL WORLD!!!

 

 

 

[silver fox 0]

[quote]I have said this before... Anyone who thinks Worthington is the problem, does not know anything about football. It is consistency that will be the key to our overall success. We must not be one of t...[/quote]

Andrew, in response to your post yes we do need consistency so why does Worthy change the team every game regardless of whether a player is injured or not.  A classic case was today when he dropped McKenzie and played Huckerby in the centre, albeit he continually drifted out to his favoured position on the left.  Ashton and McKenzie are our main two strikers who should be fed by balls from Huckerby and Marney.  Last season in this fixture McKenzie was a constant thorn in the Soton defence.  Up until today we hadn''t lost and both Ashton and McKenzie have scored and created several chances, there was no need to change it.

The players need time to gel, you must be having a laugh they do not know if they are playing with the same players in the same position from week to week.

You would not need to look too far to find a better defender than Fleming, all we need is for Worthy to acknowledge that he is a weak link, who certainly doesn''t inspire the other players with his performances.  I know that come Monday our captain will give his usual speech about not being worried and it will all come together soon.  Just the sort of drivel the manager likes to hear from his captain.  Well I have only seen the three home games, and apart from the Crewe match when we could have scored eight or nine,  I haven''t seen much else to convince me that it will all come together soon.

I think Worthy and his coaching staff are the problem in my opinion.  They have these players on the training ground all week, but we still see the same tactics week in week out.  On paper we have a very talented squad who should be near the top of the table.  We read all the after match comments about passing the ball better but there is still no improvement in the next match.

I thought both Crewe and Palace looked better organised sides when they came to Carrow Road.  They didn''t come to defend because I believe their managers did their homework and knew the way we play.  A high ball to Ashton or out to Huckerby on the wing seem to be our main tactics.  Marney is a very talented player but he never seems to take the defender on and crosses the ball almost immediately after he receives it.

In my humble opinion the players are fine but the manager and coaching staff are sadly lacking.  We cannot wait until December to see if our fortunes change because by then we could be well adrift.  Spend the Francis money to buy out Worthy and his coaching staff''s contracts and bring in a younger manager who can better motivate these talented players.

 

 

[August 64 0]

Any such talk is ludicrously premature in the context of this season.  I would not even begin to judge our state until at least 10 league games have been and gone.

I was at the game yesterday and thought we were very unlucky in many ways, hitting the woodwork yet again, early injuries, coming up against a world class keeper.

I don''t believe there is any need for panic at all and certainly no need for actions that could disrupt the whole club.

August 64

 

[Paul Meadows 0]

In response to your note, I was unlucky enough to be at St Marys yesterday. In summary, I''d make the following assessment:

Green - steady, with a great penalty save, but panicked and came out and missed Kenwyne Jones who should have scored

Colin - steady and growing in confidence

Shackell - needs to learn from a better defensive partner

Fleming - crap, slow and out of his depth (never won a single header - same as last week)

Charlton - crap

Hughes - ok

Safri - desire to win and looks our best player

Jarrett - average

Brennan - not good enough for the 1st team

Huckerby - lazy, whingeing and looking like he''s had his day

Ashton - solid but isolated

McKenzie - quick but just too small and lacking the killer instinct

Worthington - made the right changes but does there appears to eb aserious lack of belief

Southampton FC - average ability but physically fitter and stronger than our players

Yes, we do need another striker, not Morrison though as he''s full of attitude. I would prefer a decent centre back (with some height, pace and powwer)

[Bird Table 0]

I think you''ve got to give Worthy about 10 games to sort it out, see where we are after that. Remember that we started the league winning season two years pretty badly and didn''t get going till around October. But I would say that I think this is already a good squad of players and we really should be challenging at the top of the table.

[First Wizard 0]

I will only endorse the sentiments of this thread, if Ashton is sold.

Because Worthy MUST have some say on transfers, yes?.

Till then or come Christmas, he has my support, for what little thats worth!.