re Ipswich Old Farm Derby ...

[Surfer 1,547]

Probably best to take this discussion to a new thread

" and to condone their squalid behavior is to stick two fingers up to football as a whole "

I don''t condone anything Ipswich did. But here''s a partial list of clubs in the top two divisions that entered administration about the same time or later than Ipswich, which suggests "screw the creditors" isn''t so unique...

2001 Hull

2001 QPR

2002 Leicester

2009 Southampton

2010 Crystal Palace

2003 Ipswich

2003 Derby

2006 Rotherham

2007 Leeds

2008 Bournemouth

(Charlton, Middlesbrough and Millwall have also entered administration)

[Guest]

How many of those utterly screwed their creditors tho? It was my understanding that Soton fully paid off their debts, so I''m not sure if that is true of any others on your list.

[Bill 1,788]

[quote user="Surfer"]Probably best to take this discussion to a new thread

" and to condone their squalid behavior is to stick two fingers up to football as a whole "

I don''t condone anything Ipswich did. But here''s a partial list of clubs in the top two divisions that entered administration about the same time or later than Ipswich, which suggests "screw the creditors" isn''t so unique...

2001 Hull

2001 QPR

2002 Leicester

2009 Southampton

2010 Crystal Palace

2003 Ipswich

2003 Derby

2006 Rotherham

2007 Leeds

2008 Bournemouth

(Charlton, Middlesbrough and Millwall have also entered administration)[/quote]the laddie doth protest to much, methinks

[Surfer 1,547]

Full credit to the new owner, he did pay off all of Southampton''s debts, but that seems to be an exception to the rule.

Point is Ipswich are / were not alone in screwing over their creditors, that''s essentially what administration is all about ..

[Bill 1,788]

err, noNor is the thieving binners behaviour excused by some twaddle about not being unique In their case the red faced shyster was giving personal guarantees to small businesses that all was ok and that they would be paid, right up to the morning they pulled the plugHe gambled on getting promotion by using other folks money through deception, then had the bare faced cheek to hide behind some nonsense about it being down to the loss of ITVDigital money - which was a blatant lieHere he is a few weeks before the bankruptcy telling the assembled suffolk simpleton at the clubs agm that all was well at poorman road"As a result of the various actions we have taken -

coupled with the fact that the club was in a healthy business position

prior to relegation - we have steadied the ship and avoided going into

administration as was the case with Leicester City.

We remain solvent as we are able to meet our liabilities as and when they fall due and our bankers remain supportive."

so what happened between then and bankrupcy - bar the £1m or so from the sale of Clapham ?

The reality is that the shyster sheepshanks had run up huge debts (by those standards) and chose to roll them up into a securitised debt that would allow them to not only pay off those debts over a very long time, but build and rebuild two new stands .. at no risk, as he told us

"This bond is effectively a 25 year mortgage with manageable repayments ..... This new investment is secured against very cautious attendance levels"

The binners have ponced above their weight for decades - and when the time came to pay their way they welshed on the agreements they made. Not only to larger concerns and banks, but to local builders and suppliers who trusted the word of their chairman. A chairman who was happy to get up on his hind legs and tell the domwitted rustics that "we are able to meet our liabilities as and when they fall due" when in actual fact the club was at the very time deducting income tax from player and staff wages and using it to prop up the club.

They should be as welcome in the PL as Gary Glitter in a nursery school.

[Surfer 1,547]

"In April of 2003, Norwich City concluded its £15 million whole business securitization deal."

FWIW - taking out a securitized loan to bridge short term debts and to invest into stands and / or upgrading the squad isn''t so unusual...

[Bill 1,788]

err, the point was about defrauding people by taking goods and services whilst having no ability and/or intent of paying for them, as in -"In their case the red faced shyster was giving personal guarantees to

small businesses that all was ok and that they would be paid, right up

to the morning they pulled the plug"

ps a link to your above statement wouldn''t go amiss either

[lappinitup 629]

[quote user="Surfer"]"In April of 2003, Norwich City concluded its £15 million whole business securitization deal."

FWIW - taking out a securitized loan to bridge short term debts and to invest into stands and / or upgrading the squad isn''t so unusual...[/quote]We paid the whole amount back...The binners couldn''t even pay the interest. Evans eventually bought the £32m debt for £6.4m knocking Norwich Union for £25m. At the same time, ITFC shareholders were told their shares had become "worthless" even though they had paid £20 each for them. All this after they had come out of administration a few years earlier after knocking local businesses and charities.Let''s hear you make a case for them Surfer.

[Bill 1,788]

and what was their response to the money they had not paid to the taxman, despite deducting it from player and staff salaries -Ipswich Town, currently in administration, are hoping that a new law

will help them to reduce the amount of money they have to pay the Inland

Revenue and Customs and Excise.

the crucial part of all this was that traders continued to supply goods and services right up to bankruptcy because they were assured that they would be paid (see AGM statement) - there is also plenty of anecdotal evidence of Sheepshyster telling those traders to trust him " this is Ipswich Town, you know"this is not a case of a someone suddenly having the rug pulled out from underneath them, but a pattern of regular overspend that bordered on being recklesswith the consequences being that an awful lot of folk who trusted the club were shafted - and it is a measure of the culpabilty of the fans that far from being strung up from the nearest lampost Sheepshyster is still regarded as some kind of folk hero in parts of suffolk

[Surfer 1,547]

I''m not for one minute saying that Ipswich didn''t pull the wool over their creditors eyes - I really don''t know one way or the other - what I''m saying is there are several other clubs who also went into administration where we could probably find similar stories...

IF that is so, what makes Ipswich such a uniquely horrible case, unless they just happen to be the guys down the road.

Leicester

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/2349397.stm

Leeds

http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2014/apr/05/leeds-united-massimo-cellini-takeover

Palace

http://www.wsc.co.uk/the-archive/25-Sharp-end/7517-crystal-palace-cardiff-city-notts-county

IF on the other hand Ipswich are the exception to the rule, then its a shame nobody has gone to jail or the club wasn''t sued.

[Bill 1,788]

"I''m not for one minute saying that Ipswich didn''t pull the wool over

their creditors eyes - I really don''t know one way or the other"

actually you doas the words from your chairman at the 2002 AGM bear witness to"what makes Ipswich such a uniquely horrible case,"

because that is the subject matter under discussion (see OP)

[Surfer 1,547]

With your skills in insinuation, perhaps in your day job you are a politician?

I simply asked what is it that makes Ipswich such a uniquely horrible case?

Given our historical rivalry I''d rather be playing them in the Premier League than Leeds, or Portsmouth or perhaps QPR, Leicester, Palace etc all of whom seem to have had their own shading financial dealings....