Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
im spartacus canary

Newcastle fans

Recommended Posts

Trouble is despite getting big gates they just don''t have the financial clout to buy the type of player their support seems to think they should be signing.

They are, strangely, a big small club.

Then there''s that bulbous spiv who specialises in supplying chavs their chav togs.

Worthy, I''d really shoved that to the back of my mind with Neil Doomcaster

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Fans being negative about a manager is always going to make it harder for the players, and in turn makes the situation even harder for the manager, creating a viscious circle which will only lead one way - down the table.     We should know all about that.   How do you turn it round?    Either the players rise above it or you sack the manager.   Its in the hands of the players - as it always is - Pardew''s future is in their hands.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[quote user="im spartacus"]you know what i mean though, and worthy probably isn''t the right comparison cos the players are actually giving it a go for pardew...[/quote]

 

Players really gave it a go for Worthy too. The players had massive respect and even love for Worthy but it all went on too long. The idea that fans can somehow support the team but not the manager is crazy(I saw a banner at Stoke tonight claiming that). Our players were definitely affected by all the Worthy out stuff. I remember Hucks being asked about it a few years later and he was still ticking! He even had a pop at his hosts for the evening because he thought they were part of it. He said it made the atmosphere in the dressing room really difficult when you could hear what was going on in the stadium. He said Worthy put on a brave face but the players really felt for him. Truth was the players probably ended up trying too hard. With hindsight it should have been ended long before it was and the board learned the lesson because since then once the fans have been lost they''ve acted.

 

I got no sympathy with the Toon fans. I''d have loved to have seen Newcastle score tonight and then have the players turn their backs to them. But that will never happen. Players and managers have to show respect to the fans even when they have none. When I look at Newcastle it just makes me even more thankful for our club and what we have here.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
To be honest getting Worthington out back in 2006-2007 never worked. It completely backfired. When Worthington left we were 5 pts off the play-offs after the 4-1 Burnley home defeat. Nigel Worthington didn''t just become a bad manager as some people thought. That was a man who at championship level took us up as champions and got us to a play-off final. So it made no sense to get rid of Worthy and yet we had no plan B - no suitable replacement.

We then got in Peter Grant - he was like Hughton - a good coach - but no good as a manager. By the end of the season Norwich finished 17th - 19 pts behind the top 6 and we were 11 pts off the relegation zone - at one point we were 3 pts off the relegation zone. Had we have kept Worthy - I think we would have finished top half - pushing for the play-offs. We didn''t bring in anyone who had a proven track record of being successful at championship level.

We were relying on Hucks, Earnshaw, Dublin to carry us - because our defence was crap.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Newcastle are a mid to lower table "nothing special" club and have been so for many many years.Last won the Premier League (Division 1) in 1926Last won the F.A. Cup in 1955The club''s last major trophy was in 1969 when they won the Inter-Cities Fairs Cup (UEFA Cup)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

LDC talking utter shite once again. The Norwich fans were overly patient with Chris Hughton during his interminable reign. The fans weren''t to blame in any way, shape, or form for our pathetic relegation last season. We had the players to survive comfortably. Unfortunately they were managed by a coward who showed no belief in them and coached by a couple of bang average ex defenders.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="Tony Cottee Woz Ere . . ."]The fans weren''t to blame in any way, shape, or form for our pathetic relegation last season.[/quote]

Yes, yes, we know.   Fans have no effect on the team at all.  Never did, never will............they never get nervous so the team feels the tension, never gets aggressive so players hear the abuse, never get bored so the apathy is felt on the pitch.  Might as well not go to matches if we don''t have any effect.   

Or maybe fans do have an effect, but only when they are being positive?  

Or maybe you can''t have it both ways.............

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
As well as seeking the removal of their manager, Newcastle fans are a lot more vocal in their quest to have the owner leave the club. Norwich fans by contrast are a lot more forgiving of Delia and Michael, under the influence of an almost daily stream of club propaganda they are happy to applaud nearly 20 years of failure as if it''s a golden period.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Someone should quickly organise a protest.

Best have a meeting to sort things out first....anybody got St Andrews Hall''s phone number?

Top of the league we may be but it''s only Division 2 (old money).

It''s their reluctance to relinquish their stranglehold on the reins that has stopped us from getting an investor like all those clubs with ambition like Man City and Chelsea. And Portsmouth and Ipswich.

If we''d have forced them out years ago we''d be Champions League not Champions Hip; we finished third under Chase you know, that would get us in the Champions League these days. Since the devious duo took over we''ve done no better than 11th. ELEVENTH. And that was under the worst manager in the clubs history and because teams were on the beach when we weren''t on the beach even when we were.

Time to wise up, switch on and ship out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="Tony Cottee Woz Ere . . ."]The fans weren''t to blame in any way, shape, or form for our pathetic relegation last season.[/quote]


Yes, yes, we know.   Fans have no effect on the team at all.  Never did, never will............they never get nervous so the team feels the tension, never gets aggressive so players hear the abuse, never get bored so the apathy is felt on the pitch.  Might as well not go to matches if we don''t have any effect.   


Or maybe fans do have an effect, but only when they are being positive?  


Or maybe you can''t have it both ways.............



[/quote]

 

You''d do well to take your own advice Lakey. You can''t be "right" when you were clearly "wrong."

However, I''m sure you''ll keep trying. [;)]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Meanwhile, looking at the Premier League and Championship tables tonight; yes please, I would be delighted to see them finish in exactly that order come the end of the season.,,,

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="YankeeCanary"]

[quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="Tony Cottee Woz Ere . . ."]The fans weren''t to blame in any way, shape, or form for our pathetic relegation last season.[/quote]Yes, yes, we know.   Fans have no effect on the team at all.  Never did, never will............they never get nervous so the team feels the tension, never gets aggressive so players hear the abuse, never get bored so the apathy is felt on the pitch.  Might as well not go to matches if we don''t have any effect.    Or maybe fans do have an effect, but only when they are being positive?   Or maybe you can''t have it both ways.............[/quote]

 You''d do well to take your own advice Lakey. You can''t be "right" when you were clearly "wrong."

However, I''m sure you''ll keep trying. [;)]

[/quote]

I''m not sure to what you are referring, but its not to what I have said on this thread. My point all along is that fans go through all sorts of emotions during a game and that affects the team.   We''ve all been at matches where we''ve gone behind and the crowd has got behind the team and it''s been said we are the twelfth man. We''ve also  all been at matches where the crowd is anxious or worried or frustrated and if you tell me that that doesn''t transmit to the players I say you are in denial.  You can''t take accolades for having a positive effect on the team when you are really behind them, without accepting criticism that you can also have a negative effect when you show frustration etc.   And if you tell me the crowd never shows frustration then again I say  you are in denial.   Our fans are fantastic - the best in the country - but we are not perfect.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="YankeeCanary"]

[quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="Tony Cottee Woz Ere . . ."]The fans weren''t to blame in any way, shape, or form for our pathetic relegation last season.[/quote]

Yes, yes, we know.   Fans have no effect on the team at all.  Never did, never will............they never get nervous so the team feels the tension, never gets aggressive so players hear the abuse, never get bored so the apathy is felt on the pitch.  Might as well not go to matches if we don''t have any effect.   

Or maybe fans do have an effect, but only when they are being positive?  

Or maybe you can''t have it both ways.............

[/quote]

 

You''d do well to take your own advice Lakey. You can''t be "right" when you were clearly "wrong."

However, I''m sure you''ll keep trying. [;)]

[/quote][:D]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="YankeeCanary"]

[quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="Tony Cottee Woz Ere . . ."]The fans weren''t to blame in any way, shape, or form for our pathetic relegation last season.[/quote]Yes, yes, we know.   Fans have no effect on the team at all.  Never did, never will............they never get nervous so the team feels the tension, never gets aggressive so players hear the abuse, never get bored so the apathy is felt on the pitch.  Might as well not go to matches if we don''t have any effect.    Or maybe fans do have an effect, but only when they are being positive?   Or maybe you can''t have it both ways.............[/quote]

 You''d do well to take your own advice Lakey. You can''t be "right" when you were clearly "wrong."

However, I''m sure you''ll keep trying. [;)]

[/quote]

I''m not sure to what you are referring, but its not to what I have said on this thread. My point all along is that fans go through all sorts of emotions during a game and that affects the team.   We''ve all been at matches where we''ve gone behind and the crowd has got behind the team and it''s been said we are the twelfth man. We''ve also  all been at matches where the crowd is anxious or worried or frustrated and if you tell me that that doesn''t transmit to the players I say you are in denial.  You can''t take accolades for having a positive effect on the team when you are really behind them, without accepting criticism that you can also have a negative effect when you show frustration etc.   And if you tell me the crowd never shows frustration then again I say  you are in denial.   Our fans are fantastic - the best in the country - but we are not perfect.

[/quote]More gibberish. So the perfect fan is one who never shows frustration? Like a robot or something? Once again, considering the diabolical management and coaching of our squad during Hughton''s tenure, i''d say he got off very lightly with regards to vocal criticism from the crowd. In fact i''d say our fans were overly patient, but perhaps that comes with Norfolk folk being more introverted than most.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="Tony Cottee Woz Ere . . ."][quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="YankeeCanary"][quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="Tony Cottee Woz Ere . . ."]The fans weren''t to blame in any way, shape, or form for our pathetic relegation last season.[/quote]Yes, yes, we know.   Fans have no effect on the team at all.  Never did, never will............they never get nervous so the team feels the tension, never gets aggressive so players hear the abuse, never get bored so the apathy is felt on the pitch.  Might as well not go to matches if we don''t have any effect.    Or maybe fans do have an effect, but only when they are being positive?   Or maybe you can''t have it both ways.............[/quote]

 You''d do well to take your own advice Lakey. You can''t be "right" when you were clearly "wrong."However, I''m sure you''ll keep trying. [;)][/quote]

I''m not sure to what you are referring, but its not to what I have said on this thread. My point all along is that fans go through all sorts of emotions during a game and that affects the team.   We''ve all been at matches where we''ve gone behind and the crowd has got behind the team and it''s been said we are the twelfth man. We''ve also  all been at matches where the crowd is anxious or worried or frustrated and if you tell me that that doesn''t transmit to the players I say you are in denial.  You can''t take accolades for having a positive effect on the team when you are really behind them, without accepting criticism that you can also have a negative effect when you show frustration etc.   And if you tell me the crowd never shows frustration then again I say  you are in denial.   Our fans are fantastic - the best in the country - but we are not perfect.[/quote]More gibberish. So the perfect fan is one who never shows frustration? Like a robot or something? Once again, considering the diabolical management and coaching of our squad during Hughton''s tenure, i''d say he got off very lightly with regards to vocal criticism from the crowd. In fact i''d say our fans were overly patient, but perhaps that comes with Norfolk folk being more introverted than most.[/quote]None has the right to say they are "perfect".  We are all flawed.   You can show frustration or you can show enjoyment - its what fans do.   Fans aren''t robots and neither are players - but the least fans can do is acknowledge that the emotions they show at a match have some effect on the players - whether they are showing frustration/boredom or enjoyment.   Whatever emotions/mood are transmitted by a large crowd will affect  players, for better or worse.   Fact.And just for info, I never mentioned Hughton once.   Putting the boot in on Worthington did not exactly work out well.........

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Certain supporters are however given to what appears to an outsider to random acts of self harming, QED Newcastle and for the sake of discussion Leeds.

They really do have an over inflated sense of their position in the football hierarchy based on events that happened a long time ago.

Yes Newcastle get big gates but they''ve won precious little in living memory and are light years behind the super rich clubs of the Premiership and despite Ashley''s wealth he''s not in the same league as the really big players.

So the obvious question is what do supporters expect?

For us we pretty much walked towards relegation in the manner of a lemming keen to see how cold the sea is, we found out. But of course it''s all very much ''upwards and onwards'' and we are all quite happy with that.

Back in 2005 we did indeed see the other side of our clubs deeply loyal following, if like me you were at Craven Cottage it wasn''t hard to see why, a surrender even the French would have been ashamed of.

Furthermore it was also very soon apparent that all was far from well back in the second tier, we went up to Stoke funnily enough and I recall clearly Dean Ashton shooting from ridiculous distances and I thinks Hucks might have got sent off, the writing was very much on the wall and the support knew it.

We are for the most part an infinitely more patient bunch than the likes of Newcastle but when needs be we can as a tribe make our point better than most, let''s not forget the time Chase was hounded out and rightly so.

Very nasty times indeed but he went and eventually moved on, job done.

Did I mention how much better our gates are than another club keen to cling on to distant memories and how we got ten thousand more than them whilst in League 1?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

LDC, don''t you know our fans are never in the wrong, so please don''t imply they could ever be.

 

And when they are (!), they''re allowed to be because they are just consumers who pay for guaranteed entertainment and/or success, and owe the club nothing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="Tony Cottee Woz Ere . . ."]The fans weren''t to blame in any way, shape, or form for our pathetic relegation last season.[/quote]


Yes, yes, we know.   Fans have no effect on the team at all.  Never did, never will............they never get nervous so the team feels the tension, never gets aggressive so players hear the abuse, never get bored so the apathy is felt on the pitch.  Might as well not go to matches if we don''t have any effect.   


Or maybe fans do have an effect, but only when they are being positive?  


Or maybe you can''t have it both ways.............



[/quote]

 

yet the fans swallow it all up when they say "we are the best supporters in the world"

Fans apply pressure to the manager, that pressure then translates to the team.. if the team like the manager the extra pressure on them leads to a fear to play or a fear of mistakes.. this leads to lost games...then to relegation.

Fans play a bigger part then they know... I wonder how many teams have been relegated because over the cvourse of a season fans just needed to shut up?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="Tony Cottee Woz Ere . . ."][quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="YankeeCanary"][quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="Tony Cottee Woz Ere . . ."]The fans weren''t to blame in any way, shape, or form for our pathetic relegation last season.[/quote]Yes, yes, we know.   Fans have no effect on the team at all.  Never did, never will............they never get nervous so the team feels the tension, never gets aggressive so players hear the abuse, never get bored so the apathy is felt on the pitch.  Might as well not go to matches if we don''t have any effect.    Or maybe fans do have an effect, but only when they are being positive?   Or maybe you can''t have it both ways.............[/quote]

 You''d do well to take your own advice Lakey. You can''t be "right" when you were clearly "wrong."However, I''m sure you''ll keep trying. [;)][/quote]

I''m not sure to what you are referring, but its not to what I have said on this thread. My point all along is that fans go through all sorts of emotions during a game and that affects the team.   We''ve all been at matches where we''ve gone behind and the crowd has got behind the team and it''s been said we are the twelfth man. We''ve also  all been at matches where the crowd is anxious or worried or frustrated and if you tell me that that doesn''t transmit to the players I say you are in denial. 
You can''t take accolades for having a positive effect on the team when you are really behind them, without accepting criticism that you can also have a negative effect when you show frustration etc.   And if you tell me the crowd never shows frustration then again I say  you are in denial.  
Our fans are fantastic - the best in the country - but we are not perfect.
[/quote]

More gibberish. So the perfect fan is one who never shows frustration? Like a robot or something? Once again, considering the diabolical management and coaching of our squad during Hughton''s tenure, i''d say he got off very lightly with regards to vocal criticism from the crowd. In fact i''d say our fans were overly patient, but perhaps that comes with Norfolk folk being more introverted than most.
[/quote]

None has the right to say they are "perfect".  We are all flawed.   You can show frustration or you can show enjoyment - its what fans do.   Fans aren''t robots and neither are players - but the least fans can do is acknowledge that the emotions they show at a match have some effect on the players - whether they are showing frustration/boredom or enjoyment.   Whatever emotions/mood are transmitted by a large crowd will affect  players, for better or worse.   Fact.

And just for info, I never mentioned Hughton once.   Putting the boot in on Worthington did not exactly work out well.........


[/quote]

 

You have never been to Carrow Road on a match day, the Riverend and jarrold and City stand is like a Morgue!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

PS Agree with you Bury Green. Sometimes poisonous people need hounding out, sometimes troubled peopl need support.  

 

We are better than some clubs in making that call! I would argue though that a Premiership-style sense of entitlement is more common at CR in modern times, leading to knee-jerk hostility.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Bury Green -> good points made in your contribution!

people just seem to see Premier league participation as a "divine right" and certainly Newcastle fans really think they''re the same status as Man C and Manure, Chelski, etc... As a NCFC fan , I think we are capable of getting a good few seasons run in the PL if our board gets it right , but relegation will always be a possibility , with the finances we have! Actually, the way these "fans" are behaving...wouldn''t mind the magpies getting relegated and replaced by Canaries :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[quote user="Tony Cottee Woz Ere . . ."]LDC talking utter shite once again. The Norwich fans were overly patient with Chris Hughton during his interminable reign. The fans weren''t to blame in any way, shape, or form for our pathetic relegation last season. We had the players to survive comfortably. Unfortunately they were managed by a coward who showed no belief in them and coached by a couple of bang average ex defenders.[/quote]

 

I think you are slightly deluded to be honest.

 

What part of "you''re just a s**t Grant Holt" which was aimed at Elmander away at Villa do you think will really give the player a confidence boost?

What about the abuse Snodgrass got in the corner flag against Newcastle? or the abuse Ruddy got after one match from the Barclay when he came over and spoke his mind?

The boo''s and murmurs going round the stadium at every subsitution we made, boo''s ringing round the stadium when we took an INJURED Gary Hooper off the pitch.

 

I think you need to wake up and smell the coffee, the fans were the most negative thing about Norwich last season, not the tactics, and played a massive massive part in us going down.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[quote user="Bury Green"]Certain supporters are however given to what appears to an outsider to random acts of self harming, QED Newcastle and for the sake of discussion Leeds.

They really do have an over inflated sense of their position in the football hierarchy based on events that happened a long time ago.

Yes Newcastle get big gates but they''ve won precious little in living memory and are light years behind the super rich clubs of the Premiership and despite Ashley''s wealth he''s not in the same league as the really big players.

So the obvious question is what do supporters expect?

For us we pretty much walked towards relegation in the manner of a lemming keen to see how cold the sea is, we found out. But of course it''s all very much ''upwards and onwards'' and we are all quite happy with that.

Back in 2005 we did indeed see the other side of our clubs deeply loyal following, if like me you were at Craven Cottage it wasn''t hard to see why, a surrender even the French would have been ashamed of.

Furthermore it was also very soon apparent that all was far from well back in the second tier, we went up to Stoke funnily enough and I recall clearly Dean Ashton shooting from ridiculous distances and I thinks Hucks might have got sent off, the writing was very much on the wall and the support knew it.

We are for the most part an infinitely more patient bunch than the likes of Newcastle but when needs be we can as a tribe make our point better than most, let''s not forget the time Chase was hounded out and rightly so.

Very nasty times indeed but he went and eventually moved on, job done.

Did I mention how much better our gates are than another club keen to cling on to distant memories and how we got ten thousand more than them whilst in League 1?[/quote]

 

You''re right about the Newcastle fans Bury. Loveable Geordies? Last time I went there they still spat at Norwich fans just as they did in the 70s and 80s. Just like those loveable Scousers they aren''t all they''re cracked up to be. Not sure i want to see them relegated though. I enjoy watching them never living up to their fans ridiculous expectations so why give them a season off?

 

When you''re thinking about 2005 it would be good to remember that we didn''t part company with Worthy until October 2006 which was over a year after that Stoke game you refer to. Just two weeks after that game we beat the binners and there were plenty more good days before Worthy went. I remember five wins on the spin in the December including a great Ashton hat-trick against Southampton. Then the fightback against QPR where amidst disgraceful scenes of fans cheering opposition goals. And the week after I remember going all the way to Ninian Park to see one of their own, Rob Earnshaw, win the game for us. Even the start of 2006/7 we were second at the end of August after beating Barnsley 5-1. But it didn''t last and by October Worthy was gone. But apart from many fans feeling they''d got their pound of flesh nothing improved and when the last of Worthy''s generals, Hucks and Dion, were finally gone we got relegated to League One.

 

The board learned that it was too devisive to hold on to a manager who''d lost the fans but I hope us fans learned a lesson from what followed too. Although some of the reactions after Wolves away reminded me of 2005....

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Really Ellis? Picking out a couple of isolated incidents and then suggesting the fans played a bigger part in our relegation than a manager whose ineptness and cowardice led to a season of woeful negative football, unhappy players, 7 straight away defeats to some of the worst teams in the league, a pathetic 28 goals scored. I suggest you need to reconsider who the deluded one is here. The fact you criticise the fans for a few acts of anger and frustration after the garbage they had to endure last season is pretty ludicrous to be honest. I''d also suggest the fans showed more belief in our players than Chris Hughton with his continual negative pre match comments and talking up of the opposition. Like I said, at almost any other club with more vocal supporters he would have got a lot rougher ride for his continual failings. And rightfully so.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...