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Yellow Messiah

Hoolahan HAS to be taken out now

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What on earth are most of the fools on this post talking about

While I love Hoolahan his end product in the last 4 games has been nil

Can any one please tell me what he has done, he has no end product. He slows up the play a la Snoddy

Today he constantly lost the ball, held up play by doing fancy loops and 1/2.s before passing the ball behind people

He is like a circus clown who adds to the overall entertainment but is not involved in the main body of the production

HOW DOES HE BENEFIT THE TEAM

Bench yes but regular starter no

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Careful now....nutty will be laughing at you too.....and nutty please tell us how many pounts have we picked up and goals scored with Wes''s fantastic performances over the past two games?

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Totally agree Newton.

Like others I also hope Tettey was dropped to sub because of a slight injury from Tuesday night.

The match sponsors must have started hospitality too early in the day to give Johno MOM. I thought he had his worst game of the season, a pity but he was slow in pace and thought.

There is no doubt luck has not been on our side these last two games but we do seem to make quite a few wrong decisions in open play

I felt sorry for the players today, there was real frustration shown in their body language at the goal mouth scrambles and blocks made by Rotherham.

I hope I''m not burying my head in the sand but I''m sure Adams knows what he''s doing and that we will finish in the top six.

We have big squad that will serve us well over the long winter months …. I hope.

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[quote user="Jim Smith"]Wes has looked good for most of the last two games. The problem is playing him on the left. It''s not his best position and leaves us a bit exposed when teams break. If we are to play Wes (and I think most of the time we should) then we should revert to the 4-2-3-1 system and play him in the middle of the 3. This would necessitate either dropping Grabban or moving him out wide, neither of which I would be too worried about.

My biggest concerns at present are Adams persisting with the cumbersome Hoiveld/turner partnership ( they are too similar and get undone by basic balls over the top) and the feeling I get that Adams regards Johnson as ahead of Tettey in the pecking order. Tettey is our best midfielder and should always play if fit. He is the one who gives us the platform to control games and shields the back 4. Johnson and Howson as a combo never have done this and never will. I therefore really hope that Tettey was being rested today due to a slight knock because if not I have to question Adams judgment with that selection.[/quote]

 

The Tettey/Johnson/Howson question is interesting. Not sure of Tettey''s fitness. He did have treatment on Tuesday and TBH if it wasn''t a knock then taking him off seemed strange. So I''m not reading too much in Tettey being the man who gave way today. I agree Johnson and Howson as a combo aren''t as good as Johnson and Tettey. But I''ve yet to be convinced that Tettey and Howson are as good as Johnson and Tettey as a combo. In fact many of our best performances since Tettey arrived have been when he''s alongside Johnson. If I say what I see then Johnson/Tetty start for me. Which means it''s difficult to add Howson and Wes to the same team. And if you want to play 2 up top then one of Howson/Wes gets stuck on the left and the other the bench. I think the only way Adams can pick a central midfield to keep everyone happy is when one of Johnson/Tettey/Howson is injured.

 

Central defence is another interesting one. I thought Martin was going to be used there when he got the #5 shirt but then we signed 3 more central defenders in the window. I''ve been following the thread about Martin''s best position. He does seem weak in the air compared to Bennett but being best in the air doesn''t make the best defender. It''s difficult to think of a goal we''ve conceded that''s due to Martin not being good enough in the air. I hnestly haven''t a scooby right now who our best two are.

 

Did I hear you referred to as "Canary Call Jim" earlier today? If so you need to have a word with that Rob Butler bloke! Pink Un Jim would be much better[:)]

 

 

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[quote user="Indy"]Careful now....nutty will be laughing at you too.....and nutty please tell us how many pounts have we picked up and goals scored with Wes''s fantastic performances over the past two games?[/quote]

 

Indy, you really do seem to struggle to debate on here without getting personal. You''ll never get the call to the other place buddy.

 

We got the same amount of points as we did with John Ruddy''s performances Indy. Or any of the other players. Or a point more with Hooiveld thanWhittaker. Not sure any of that is relevant. Are you suggesting that without Wes we''d be 5 points clear?

 

 

 

 

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Who knows but the fact remains we have scored more goals and come back from losing positions when Wes has been subbed.

I would have thought that might point to a small matter that me and others see that he''s a luxury that isn''t working at home.

Bit again you never appear to back your point just try to throw a curve ball.

Night Nutty as I can''t be bothered to go off on another tangent about Ruddy or Whittaker or any other player. My point is purely based on your comment that you think Wes has been an influential player in the past two games which we have lost one and drawn one without scoring while Wes is on the pitch.

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And nutty where have I been personal? Just like you light hearted fun.....;-)

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]

 It''s difficult to think of a goal we''ve conceded that''s due to Martin not being good enough in the air.

 

[/quote]

Wolves game. Didn''t make a header he had to make and they scored.

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Thank you GJP. have we conceded any due to others defensive mistakes? Which pairing have been best in your opinion?

Indy .. I was referring to you posting about me to someone else. You''ll never get to a better place behaving like that...

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So you laughing at my opinion is OK....talk about double standars matey.

Good night.

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Difficult one. Not sure we''ve seen enough of any pairing to be sure.

 

The only thing we can be sure of is that Turner would be part of any pairing.

 

In an ideal world it''d be Turner and Bassong.

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Agree Turner is the best. I wass chuffed to keep him because he could certainly have got a prem club. Don''t think we''ll see Bassong because we got 2 more in on deadline day which suggests we expected him not to be here. But if he can be motivated we are paying his wages...

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Newton wrote:

While I love Hoolahan his end product in the last 4 games has been nil

..............................................................................................

But creativity hasn''t been the problem though Newton.

Hoolahan has carved out chances in those games but the strikers have missed those. End product is only nil cos clear chances created are missed.

Why is this post not about Grabban missing those chances - if he''d taken just one in each game it would have been enough.

Why not Ruddy - for his goalkeeping errors or our lightning slow defence - why is is about Hoolahan ??

Being an engineer requires a certain level of intellect - i''d had hope that it would help with assessing what''s happening on the football pitch as well - but no !

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Ok lets take this a stage further.....Wes does indeed add to our teams creativity, but the penalty for this is he has one position, slows the pace and compresses the field. No doubting in the right system against certain teams he''s a given. Thats down to the manager and staff to asses and choose. The last 4 home games although nothing is a given have been under achieving performances whoever we blame and if it continues we will struggle over the season to gain top two.

The defence should be good enough and for me lacks pace as well as understanding, their goal yesterday was down to a basic defending error which was repeated 3 times in the first almost leading to an earlier goal off letting the ball bounce instead of clearing it.

We have spent a considerable amount on other defenders, we have a choice of CB so again if we can see fundimental mistakes I''m sure Adams who as pointed out by Nutty is far more knowledgable then any of us can see this too. He''s theone who bought amiquel and Cueller so he must think they are good enough so use them.

My whole point is we all said we have the best depth of squad in this division why not use it?

Yes we sit top and yes it''s great, no we have no right to win any games but we should expect results as will our board and sorry to harp on but 3 points from 4 home games in thisleague is points dropped in my book and Adams has said as much too.

Everyone has an opinion and as much as I agree with Ricardos report we again played better the last 20 minutes when Laffs came on for the aging slow Wes.

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Firstly, I must say that I am fully behind Adams. We''re still top of the league and that shows he is doing a hell of a lot right. But his management of Hoolahan right now is average at best and I think he does deserve criticism for it.

In his various guises as coach, summariser and now manager, he has sat and watched a succession of Norwich managers over the past 6 years including Roeder, Gunn, Lambert and Hughton all at some stage try and ultimately fail to successfully utilise Hoolahan has a winger.

Hoolahan is at his best he receives the ball on the half turn in a central area in the opposition third. The opposition players are then scared to commit as they fear giving away free kicks in dangerous positions around the box or worse.

When he''s shunted out onto the left he can''t get into those positions as easily and effect the game as he can. Defensively, he also has a tendency to leave his full back a bit exposed particularly with his inclination to drift in from the left.

It also plays into the hands of teams who are looking to pack the central areas and frustrate Norwich, particularly at home. Hoolahan drifting in off the wing makes the pitch much smaller as result. It''s no coincidence that the goals came against Birmingham and Rotherham once we made the pitch bigger by adding genuine width to both sides.

Adams clearly believes he has 4 outstanding attacking players in Grabban, Jerome, Redmond and Hoolahan who he is desperate to play at all times. The only way I can see that being achieved and giving the team balance is to drop Grabban wide (he has played this role in his career) and to allow Hoolahan to roam centrally once more.

You may agree or disagree with the above tactical suggestion, but the one moral of this tale that no one can disagree with is that, you either play Hoolahan centrally and build a team around him or you don''t bother at all.

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[quote user="GJP"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

 It''s difficult to think of a goal we''ve conceded that''s due to Martin not being good enough in the air.

[/quote]

Wolves game. Didn''t make a header he had to make and they scored.

[/quote]

Wasn''t the cross between the defenders?  The attacker had made a good run, the cross went over Turner and the ball never reached Martin.  Any defence would have had trouble with the quality of that cross. Sometimes you have to give credit to the other team - any blame for that goal lies with our midfield trackers.  

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I think Martin was at fault for the Wilves game and I much prefer him at right back to centre back but then I also prefer him at CB with Turner in comparison to the Turner and Hoiveld combo. I thought changing the defence was another slightly strange decision yesterday after Whitaker actually had his best game of the season for us on Tuesday night.

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Ahh Scapegoat Hoolahan, again.

It''s amazing how many people are sure that a 19yr old with a handful of games under his belt, or a foreign player who they have never seen play before, will be far better than Hoolahan and improve us as a team.

Personally I feel we need to be looking resting BJ. Howson and tettey together, would be a great paring and far more of a threat going forward. BJ had impressed this season, but he''s not suited to breaking down a team at home, who are content to sit deep.

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[quote user="GJP"]No. He should have made the header.[/quote]What header?  It was a pin point cross on to the head of the incoming striker.   Martin was trying to cover two incoming attackers coming into the penalty area and the cross was just too accurate.   The whole defence was stretched because of the suddeness of the attack. Blaming Martin is a tad harsh imo. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SrrKwIo4u4

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Anyway, back to the OP, I think the Wes issue is straight forward. The "hole" that Wes plays in so productively is much smaller/non exisitent at home. Look at Blackpool and you see Wes running in behind an advanced midfield. At home, Wes spends his time in front of the midfield and the defence.

Was obvious early yesterday that a more advanced, more direct front two/three was required and took Adams too long to make the change that worked well in the last 20 mins. Lafferty was more direct and carried the ball quicker.

Adams has one of the best squads in the league and has to use them better . We have to unlock teams that park the bus, and we have the players to do it. Three points from twelve at home suggests Adams has a bit of work to do.

 

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[quote user="Kurious Oranj"]So many people saying Murphy needs to start. Did you see his defending when he came on?[/quote]Who gives a damn about his defending???Are you telling me you wouldn''t have played Hucks because he spent virtually no time helping Drury defend?

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I thought we looked tired yesterday, and in need of some fresh legs to get things going - which happened with the substitutions.

I now wish we had sold Hoolahan to the Villains, as at least we wouldn''t still be having this discussion.

Hoolahan on the wing does not work, so we do need to play a left midfielder. He does give us creativity, but like Snodgrass, there is a price to pay.

Our defence looked woeful yesterday, and against a good side would have shipped a hat-full of goals.

It''s going to be a long hard season.

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Yep Indy_bones - you''re right - I don''t give a flying toss Hoolahan can''t defend or is out or position. He''s in the team for attack purposes.

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lincoln canary wrote the following post at 05/10/2014 11:40 AM:

"This is where I feel Surman would have been key. Rotation with Hoolahan for a bit freshness."

No.

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Did all the front players and midfielders both create chances for others and themselves? YesDid all the front players and midfielders miss/fluff all those chances bar one? - YesThought they all played well, nobody had a stinker, the better team didn''t win, it happens.

On Hulahoop, I think we we look a good side with him in it and a good side without him in it.

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[quote user="Indy"]So you laughing at my opinion is OK....talk about double standars matey.

Good night.[/quote]

 

Sorry Indy. I missed this post wishing me goodnight. I''ll take back what I said, little things like that will be enough for you to get to a better place[;)] I wasn''t laughing at your opinion. I thought I made that plain. What I was laughing at was the ridiculous notion that Adams has a lot to learn about management but when he''s learnt it he''ll start coming to the same conclusions as you.

 

 

Getting back to the Wes debate I still don''t agree. Forget the last to results just for a minute and consider the performances. Have we really looked unbalanced and ponderous in attack? We had 27 shots yesterday with 6 on target and 2 hitting the frame. Now I don''t think they''d have been 37 and 9 if Wes hadn''t been on the left. Look how many shots other Champs clubs get away - Watford 12/3 against Brighton. Derby 10/1 against Millwall. Middlesboro 14/5 against Fulham. Charlton 8/3 against Birmingham. I think we created just fine yesterday but Rotherham defended well and got in some amazing blocks. I don''t think the strikers are firing blanks either. We have two with 6 each after just 11 games. I think the first half goals and home wins will come. But we will look stronger at the end of games because whether it''s Lafferty or Wes off the bench we will have too much quality for a lot of teams in this league as they become physically or more importantly mentally tired.

 

Which brings me to Broady''s point about needing better home form to get out of this league. That is true. I agree that we will find it difficult to keep on getting the results away from home to keep us around 2 points per game. But equally in the light of our performances at home of late it''s a huge leap of negativity to presume those home results won''t improve.

 

 

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Wes out wide or coming deep to get the ball is not what we want. He looks best receiving the ball to feel around the area with players running ahead and playing quick through balls. There have been plenty of great chances made by Wes, its just our strikers have been wasteful.

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LDC - considering you''ve got the clip there to watch I find it even more bizarre you can''t see Martin has to make that header.

It doesn''t matter if the cross should have been stopped by midfield Martin still has a job to do. Any CB needs to win that ball or be close to it to make it tough for the forward but he wasn''t close enough.

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