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Bradley Johnson

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In my opinion, this guy has been an absolute revelation in the last couple of games, alongside Tettey and Wes in the centre.

A few passes went astray yesterday when fewer options were available to him, but he still made the majority of 25/30 yard passes he attempted, and obviously scored a great "winner" as well. I think that last season he suffered as there never seemed to be good options available and felt like he was almost trying to force play at times, but this season so far has been a joy to watch him pinging long cross-field balls with pace and accuracy.

Really happy for him considering the IMO unfair stick he has had on here and other places. He has always put in 100%, and whilst it''s early days, he now seems to have added finishing and varied passing to his game.

Would like to know what his detractors who told us he couldn''t pass or shoot think now, and those who pulled out the passing stats compared to Tettey? Do you think this is a "purple patch" that he won''t maintain, or has he changed your mind?

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I recall before Leeds visited last time in the Championship saying to a Leeds supporting mate that I would not mind having BJ at Norwich. So was pleased when we signed him, and my mind has not been changed I have always liked him.

Yes he was found wanting more than we would have liked in the premiership but he was not the only one. Always gives 100% and last night I thought he was key to driving the team forward. He may have a split second longer on the ball now which may have helped his passing so lets hope he keeps that up, and if he can chip in with 10 goals I think we will all be well pleased.

OTBC

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I have not been a fan of BJ BUT will hold my hands up and say he has (if he keeps this form up) proved me wrong.

It seems the freedom from the "old" system and that given by having AT by his side has released the player in him

Long may it last[:D]

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Norfolk pirlo!

Has been a revelation this season, looks so strong and comfortable alongside tettey!!!

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I''ve been one of his harsher critics in the past, largely for his previously poor pass completion rate. I have never doubted his work rate but he actually made relatively few successful tackles or interceptions in the Premier League and he committed quite a lot of fouls; although I seem to remember him having made the most fouls without receiving a booking at one point. Another frustrating thing is that he would sometimes completely fail to track a run from midfield into the box leaving their man unmarked to head or tap in. Not exactly what you want from a defensive midfielder.While you could argue that Johnson and Tettey between them should have been there to stop the opening goal last night, his performances in the last two games have been fantastic; particularly the passing and shooting. You could say that it is easier at this level, you get a bit more time on the ball and the opposition leave a few more gaps and make more positional errors which make passing a bit easier. Another factor is that the new system we are playing and the overall attacking intent from the team is allowing him to play a bit further up the pitch and is providing him with some team mates who are running into space, wanting the ball; these all help.However, I genuinely believe he has made some significant improvements to his game: he is taking the simple option when appropriate in order to retain possession but he is also growing in terms of vision and creativity. He has always had an amount of creativity - I''ll always remember that 28 pass move that led to Pilkington scoring against Sunderland with Johnson playing him in - it''s just often been that he has seemed to lack the accuracy or ability to pull things off; on the evidence of the last two games he is very much improved in both. Finally, his shooting seems to have been transformed. In the past it was more a case of smash it as hard as possible whereas the two goals he''s scored this year have been exquisite, curling, controlled finishes. It''s almost as if he''s been practising.

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Hats off to Johnson.  I''ve been a severe doubter, but some of his passing has been excellent as has his been his shooting. Like having a new player. Tetty looks class at this level too.   Will do their confidence a world of good. 

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[quote user="lincoln canary"]I''m not a BJ fan. But at this level he is a very useful player. Glad he''s performing well.[/quote]David McNally told us on Saturday that he''d had more enquiries from Premier League clubs for Bradley Johnson than any other member of the squad....

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Not surprised by that at all, he is a player who so often gets slagged on here, when in fact had some of the others in our squad last season put in the effort he did last season we would still be in the EPL.

Also, now like many others in our squad, BJ will be one of the better players in the league..........

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Its heartening that he had the desire to play for us in the champs rather than seek out a prem move. Obviously likes it here and most of his harsh critics aren''t lucky enough to see how important he is to us when we don''t have the ball. I noticed yesterday that Tettey shared a lot of that responsibility allowing jJohnson tojoin in more of our atracking play. He''s loved in the stadium and will be right up there again for POTS.

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[quote user="Dubai Mark"]Not surprised by that at all, he is a player who so often gets slagged on here, when in fact had some of the others in our squad last season put in the effort he did last season we would still be in the EPL.

Also, now like many others in our squad, BJ will be one of the better players in the league..........[/quote]

Although I wouldn''t say I''ve ever slagged him off, I''ve often been a fierce critic of Johnson. Players have  to take the rough with the smooth and if they play badly they will get taken to task for it - and his passing has let him down a lot in the past, as has his shooting.  I thought he might be more of a squad player this season, but atm he and Tettey would appear to be the first names on the team sheet. Its good news and a bit of a surprise to me that he has been so dominant so far this season and working so well with Tettey.   Shows the character of both of them and its great stuff. More of the same please!  

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[quote user="I.S."]Would like to know what his detractors who told us he couldn''t pass or shoot think now, and those who pulled out the passing stats compared to Tettey?[/quote]Guess what?His passing stats are still much worse than Tettey''s.I''m certainly not going to harshly criticise Johnson (especially on the back of two very good games), but at the same time I still maintain what I''ve always said, in that Tettey is the more consistently strong player of the two, and if there was only 1 central role left with a choice between the two of them, then I''d pick Tettey every single time. I personally believe that Tettey is absolutely a premiership class player, who if he was at another ''bigger'' club e.g. Spurs, he''d be getting rave reviews in much that way that players like Parker used to do.In ref to their stats so far this season:Johnson - Pass Accuracy = 84%, Long Pass Accuracy = 62%, Key passes per game = 3, Cross Accuracy = 33%Tettey - Pass Accuracy = 92%, Long Pass Accuracy = 93%, Key passes per game = 3, Cross Accuracy = 50%Tettey is simply the much better passer of the ball, be it long or short, he also knows how to play a killer pass, and his crossing is better so far as well (on the rare occasion he does it).What I will point out however, is that Johnson has probably been the better of the two from a purely defensive perspective so far this season (even if he fouls WAY more than Tettey - 2.3 per game compared to Tettey''s 0.7).Johnson definitely looks more settled at this level, and if he continues with his current form, he could have a very good season for us, but if NA decides that someone has to make way for Howson, then it''s Johnson who''d be on the bench for me rather than Tettey.

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Guess what Indy? Stats still don''t tell the whole story - if yours are even correct (which I strongly doubt). Try opening your eyes and actually watching the match.

Both Tettey and Johnson have been excellent in the last two home games, but Tettey''s passing was pretty much limited to quick sideways or backwards passes (because of the role he is playing), whereas Johnson was frequently looking for and making the longer passes.

I don''t think anyone else who saw the two matches would disagree with me, regardless of what your numbers (without context) might say.

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[quote user="Indy_Bones"]In ref to their stats so far this season:Johnson - Pass Accuracy = 84%, Long Pass Accuracy = 62%, Key passes per game = 3, Cross Accuracy = 33%Tettey - Pass Accuracy = 92%, Long Pass Accuracy = 93%, Key passes per game = 3, Cross Accuracy = 50%Tettey is simply the much better passer of the ball, be it long or short, he also knows how to play a killer pass, and his crossing is better so far as well (on the rare occasion he does it).Johnson definitely looks more settled at this level, and if he continues with his current form, he could have a very good season for us, but if NA decides that someone has to make way for Howson, then it''s Johnson who''d be on the bench for me rather than Tettey.[/quote]

This percentage stat thing is something I just can''t get my head around.  So if Johnson tries 6 crosses in a game, he gets 2 out of 6 with good accuracy.  Tettey tries maybe 4 crosses and gets 2 out of 4 with good accuracy. So who has crossed better than who in that situation?  Both have contributed 2 good crosses to the game.   They both look comfortable at this level and with a little more time on the ball they are both revelling in it.  To me they have both been excellent so far and are both in the driving seat as far as those two midfield places goes.  At the moment I wouldn''t like to lose either of them from the team. Imo as long as these two carry on as they''ve started, Howson, or any other midfielder will have to wait for their chance from the bench.

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Interestingly, you neglected to mention that Bradley Johnson has apparently attempted 50% more passes per match (65.3) than Tettey (44.3) and has an overall success rate only 7% less that Tettey''s (84% vs 91%).

Therefore, by my maths, Bradley Johnson is making an average of 55 successful passes per match, whereas Tettey is only making 40.

.

So does this "prove" that Bradley Johnson is a better passer of the ball than Alex Tettey? Or does this merely illustrate the fact that stats are utter drivel without context, definition and unbiased interpretation?

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Really?You really have this little understanding of the stats and their actual knock on effects in game but want to start giving it the big one???You point out that BJ makes around 50% more passes than Tettey per game, but if instead of Johnson making those passes it was Tettey - we''d have a higher pass success rate overall.Johnson tends to shoot more than say Howson (approx anywhere from 25-50% more), yet despite this, generally has a lower conversion rate on those shots into goals, so again, if instead of Johnson taking the shot, it was given to Howson - we''d have a higher shot to goal conversion rate overall.For those who haven''t studied economics, it''s all about what''s called ''opportunity cost'', which in this case means that by bringing Johnson into the passing game more or encouraging him to shoot (even if his last two games have been productive in this area), the opportunity cost is that the better passers of the ball, and those better at shooting lose the opportunity to do so in order to enable Johnson - this is where I have an issue.You cannot simply use quantity of attempts to justify reasoning, because quantity is irrelevant if the quality is not up to standard. Imagine a scenario where you had two players, Player A has a 25% pass success rate, Player B has a 75% rate, if they both make the same number of passes (let''s use 50 for an example) then Player A only gets 12.5 successes per game compared to B''s 37.5, but as soon as you increase Player A''s passes to a much higher level, they can gain parity or even eclipse Player B overall (This means for example that Player A needs to attempt 150 passes per game in order to equal Player B).However, if instead of giving Player A those additional passes in order to equal Player B, we instead give them directly to Player B, then suddenly Player B is hitting 112.5 successful passes per game and our front line is in heaven!This is the ''opportunity cost'' I mentioned earlier, and sides who have players with top class passing generally tend to funnel their play through those players and use it as much as possible, so think Xavi and Iniesta at Barca or think Fabregas at Arsenal/Chelsea, those players see a lot of the ball and have very high pass success rates - even if it''s only a simple pass for most of the time - what their managers don''t do is tell the team to instead give the ball to Busquets, Wilshere or Matic...You also point out that Tettey makes more sideways or backwards passes, and you''re right that he probably does, but what he doesn''t tend to do in those situations is cheaply give possession away - something that Johnson became notorious for over the past couple of seasons.So despite your somewhat churlish response, there''s a little bit more ''context'' for the stats, and if you think the stats are wrong, then please use the form located here [url]http://www.whoscored.com/ContactUs[/url], and let the staff at WhoScored know that they''re talking utter ballcocks and that you know better...

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I''m a bit worried that on Saturday BJ will play the occasion and not the game, he likes to be the one who winds up the opposition (which he did superbly well with Joey Barton) but he treads a fine line of getting himself sent off as well, I''d like him on the pitch in a 11v11 game not sent off in a 10v10 game.

 

 

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Indy it doesn''t really matter, because Tettey doesn''t pass more and Howson doesn''t shoot more. Never have and probably never will as now a second manager (third if you include Lambert and forget the other two players) has decided to use Johnson in this way.

Quantity is not irrelevant. Many many players require more attempts to get something right. Some of Johnson''s passing is much more decisive than Tetteys. He played some lovely balls on Saturday, and I hear a few last night but I was working so missed that game. Tettey may be more accurate but he doesn''t try as many cross field balls, or little chips over the defence.

Earnie when he was here was our top goal scorer, and without checking any stats it always seemed like he needed about ten shots to score. Which didn''t matter because he could get those opportunities.

It''s not just out quality and quantity. It''s not just about stats. Players are different, have different styles, different roles and you can''t just apply the same logic to even three players in the same position.

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Last year in the PL Tettey''s pass success rate was 89% while BJ was around 75%. Part of their improvement may reflect the drop in league, but I also wonder if Holt and/or Robson have been working with them on this in training and thus developing their game. Good if true.

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Sorry Indy, got to your third paragraph about economic modelling and then skipped to the end.

To clarify - I have never said stats are utter "ballcocks", what I have said is that by definition they are a limited model and are only useful in certain scenarios.

[quote]You point out that BJ makes around 50% more passes than Tettey per game, but if instead of Johnson making those passes it was Tettey - we''d have a higher pass success rate overall.[/quote]

Are you being serious there?! If so, that statement is stunningly naive in my opinion. Ask the question WHY doesn''t Tettey make more passes? Perhaps he doesn''t have Johnson''s vision, perhaps he doesn''t have his range of passing, perhaps his role dictates he has less opportunities, or perhaps he has better judgement as to whether a pass will be successful.

My point is that you cannot infer this reasoning from a simple statistical model. You may be able to go on and do some incredibly advanced mathematical analysis, but what''s the point if it doesn''t tell you anything useful?

To suggest that pass completion success is a decisive metric when measuring quality is also nonsense. Please define what a successful pass is, and which proportion of passes were forward vs. sideways/backwards "safe" passes. Does an attempted key pass which is unsuccessful score more highly than a misplaced Whittaker to Ruddy backpass? Are they differentiated?

By seemingly your own interpretation, Wes only has a pass completion ratio of 84%. Therefore Tettey is without question the better passer of the ball? Let''s stick Tettey at the top of the midfield three then, and sell Wes to Villa.

Stats give you nothing more than a nice basis for analysis and comparison within a limited domain, depending on the complexity of the modelling at question. My issue with your application of them is that you use them as a direct comparison to say "player X is better than player Y".

That is just not reasonable or fair, and I''m surprised than an economist can''t recognise these limitations.

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[quote user="Yelloow Since 72"] Part of their improvement may reflect the drop in league, but I also wonder if Holt and/or Robson have been working with them on this in training and thus developing their game. Good if true.[/quote]Was just going to post the same thing.  Tettey has been more expressive in his passing, as has Johnson - and the combination of a little extra time on the ball and a positive coaching attitude look to be paying off.

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BJ Tier.2 has played very well in the 4231 formation and he and tettey are complimenting each other - to the benefit of the team . Whats not to like so why compare.com?

Whats great is that when either drops performance, gets suspended or is injured we do have cover in O.Neil.

Enjoy it while we can :-)

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As for those who despise stats or cant understand their relevance ask why clubs spend significant amounts of cash both collating data & tracking players and analysing the data - and in so many more sports than just football. But you just have to use them in context and not the sole measure.

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"This percentage stat thing is something I just can''t get my head around. "

" just meaningless cr  ap" (a direct quote from a L1 coach)and nothing more than nonsense to over excite those with mild aspergersas to professional football using them, dream onif you had the most basic grasp of the game you would know why

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[quote user="lincoln canary"]I''m not a BJ fan. But at this level he is a very useful player. Glad he''s performing well.[/quote]

I thought everyone loves a BJ ? (brad Johnson ;) ) lol

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[quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="Yelloow Since 72"] Part of their improvement may reflect the drop in league, but I also wonder if Holt and/or Robson have been working with them on this in training and thus developing their game. Good if true.[/quote]Was just going to post the same thing.  Tettey has been more expressive in his passing, as has Johnson - and the combination of a little extra time on the ball and a positive coaching attitude look to be paying off.

[/quote]Maybe they could spend a bit more time with Redmond!

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Of course the fact that Bradley takes more shots and attempts more long passes may also indicate that he has better positional sense and vision to enable him to do this in the first place. Or it may not. Stats are meaningless on their own and certainly can''t hold a candle to a mark 1 eyeball and for my eyes he bossed the midfield on Tuesday.

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