Reinvestment

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

[quote user="City1st"]transfers ''never add up'' because they are never declared, though it doesn''t stop numpties from over exciting themselves about made up figuresnow why not tell us how the club makes up that £40m plus cut in income

[/quote]Not true. Individual transfer fees are not officially disclosed (although the club has helpfully started leaking them for PR purposes). But the post-balance sheet section of the accounts gives a list of players bought and sold after the end of the financial year, which in effect means during the summer transfer window, and the global net sum. So, for example, the accounts for 2012-13 show that last summer we acquired van Wolfswinkel, Nash, Redmond, Olsson, Fer, Hooper and Elmander, and offloaded Vaughan, Holt, Barnett and Butterfield. With that list is a basic net cost (ie the prices we paid minus what we were paid) of £20.1m with a possible £8m extra due, depending on appearances etc. So the club does disclose how the summer figures add up, and presumably will do again in the accounts out in October/November.

[gabba 0]

[quote user="Cheap Cheap Canaries"][quote user="Crispy"]As we have seen time and time again at the club transfer money disappears so you are all wasting time doing sums.

You''d like to think even without selling players a club that is debt free can muster a transfer budget without having to sell, especially one that says they are going for promotion.

Even last seasons ''big spend'' was an illusion as RVW was the previous January''s transfer budget that was untouched.

If the club really believe we are going to get promoted players like Fer should be convinced to stay as it will work our more expensive in the long run. We couldn''t convince a better player to be on our books nor could we afford one. If he leaves for less than 10 million (we could still get the same money in January) then we loose out in the long term.[/quote]The transfer money always mysteriously vanishes at this club , January is a prime month for missing money just how many times have we been told "theres money available for the January window" only for some old lag on loan to turn up .As you say if the Suffolk Two really wanted promotion they would be pulling out all the stops to keep the best players , instead they are having a fire sale and spending nothing .Just where has the money gone ?????[/quote]The club pi$$ed so much money up the wall backing Hopeless Hughton that the cupboard is now bare when it comes to a promotion push. I can almost hear the "squad needs time to gel" excuses, so we may as well write this season off.

[Bill 1,788]

"Not true. Individual transfer fees are not officially disclosed"

dear me purple, that is dreadful even for youI state that individual fees are not disclosed, you claim that is not true .... then in the next sentence you agree with me !An amalgamated net cost does not tell you how much each player cost. Even if you were to somehow work out each ''fee'', those fees they don''t include the overall wage costs, agents fees or any signing on fees. Unfortunately the terminally dim look at the daily dim and see that supposedly we sell Fer for £8m and buy Lafferty for £3m and booooo, the naughty club is stealing yet another £5m from the poor downtrodden fans. Fine if that is how complex their dumbo brains imagine football to be, but when that simplemindedness is used as basis to attack the club then I reserve the right to reply in a language that is robust enough to penetrate their wooden heads.

ps I would further suggest that mr purple is making up stuff about leaks to encourage the wooly minded to imagine their is some truth in their ignorance

[? 0]

[quote user="Donkey dangler"]

[quote user="barclay_boy111"]According to Mcnally we will be £7m in debt by the end of the season, .[/quote]

When did Mr. McNally state this?

[/quote]

In his monthly staff meeting last week, it wasn''t put out in the public domain.

[barclay_boy111 0]

[quote user="The Butler"]

[quote user="barclay_boy111"]According to Mcnally we will be £7m in debt by the end of the season, snoddy money was already spent on lafferty & Grabban. £8m for fer will leave us £1m plus the £1m for pilks and however much we get for surman so maybe £3m to spend what''s that gonna buy? We are desperate for a couple of CB''s and now 2 midfielders.[/quote]

I think that you will find Grabban and Lafferty were bought early so they will appear in last years accounts, as Wolf was purchased from the previous years money.(no point in paying corporation tax if you don''t need to!).

We had money not spent from the Jan transfer budget plus the final placings money from the Prem. Therefore ALL the money from transfers so far, I would suggest is available IF WANTED. ( or allowed)

The main difference in relegation this time is that we came down with NO external debt and possibly,if they did as they stated they would, no internal debt.

That does somewhat remove the normal pressure that comes with relegation.

Adams does not have control over transfers, if you remember, it was stated that the new committee chaired by McNally would decide who we sold and who we bought (subject to the managers recomendations )

That puts the decisions firmly in the hands of the finance man  (who''s peformance bonus relies on profit)

 

[/quote]

I''m just stating why was told during staff meeting.

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

[quote user="City1st"]"Not true. Individual transfer fees are not officially disclosed"dear me purple, that is dreadful even for youI state that individual fees are not disclosed, you claim that is not true .... then in the next sentence you agree with me !An amalgamated net cost does not tell you how much each player cost. Even if you were to somehow work out each ''fee'', those fees they don''t include the overall wage costs, agents fees or any signing on fees. Unfortunately the terminally dim look at the daily dim and see that supposedly we sell Fer for £8m and buy Lafferty for £3m and booooo, the naughty club is stealing yet another £5m from the poor downtrodden fans. Fine if that is how complex their dumbo brains imagine football to be, but when that simplemindedness is used as basis to attack the club then I reserve the right to reply in a language that is robust enough to penetrate their wooden heads.

ps I would further suggest that mr purple is making up stuff about leaks to encourage the wooly minded to imagine their is some truth in their ignorance

[/quote]Dear me. A post based on a total misunderstanding of what you wrote in the first place, so I can appreciate why my reply seemed a bit on the baffling side. I will try to explain it in even simpler terms than before. What you said was, and this is verbatim, that:"...transfers never add up because they are never declared..."The point I was making (which was clearly explained in my full quote rather than the dishonestly curtailed version you produced) is that they can - and do - ADD UP in total, which is what this thread has been about, even though the individual fees are not revealed by the club.It is possible to say what the net profit or loss is for the summer transfer widow (which, I repeat, is what is this thread is about) because it is very helpfully revealed in the accounts. The adding-up, which you say is impossible, is there in black and white. And will in a few months'' time be there for this summer''s dealings. Proof that I am right and you are wrong?Summer transfer window 2013: net loss of £20.1m (plus possible extra £8m).Summer transfer window 2012: net loss of £9.9m (plus possible extra £3.4m).Summer transfer window 2011: net loss of £6.1m.Enough figures. One final point, City1st. If you actually don''t think the club has been leaking transfers fees to the media this summer then you really really really haven''t been paying attention. Or are terminally dim.

[? 0]

Purple wrote:

Or are terminally dim.

I''d go with that!

[ricardo 7,347]

Yeah, but what did Watling wallet?[;)]

[mrs miggins 0]

Out

Nash - released

Fox - released

Snodders = £6-8m

RVW = £1.25m

Fer = £10m

Pilkington = £1.5m

=£19.75m

In

Grabban = £3m

Lafferty = £2.5m?

Ofoe = £2.3m (3m Euro)

Jerome = £1.5m?

Mcgrandles = £1m

O''Neil = free

Cuellar = free

= £10.3m

£9.45m left over, but i''m sure about half of that we won''t spend on transfers so basically imo we might spend another £3m for the whole season.

We still need to buy a a LM to replace pilkington.

If Hooper goes we''ll have to replace him unless Becchio stays and is properly in the squad. The same goes for Bassong, if he goes then we''ll need to replace him - and there have ben a few report that say we''re looking for a CB.

So far it looks as if we''ve done good business, we''re nearly there, the only worry is if we have people going out at the last minute and trying to replace them in time, yet we can always loan I suppose.

[Bill 1,788]

outsome players for unknown money

in some more players for unknown money

that leaves us with an unknown amount

which can be taken from (or added) to the unknown amount allocated to the playing budget......... factoring that it isn''t known how much is paid in player/agent fees or other conditional paymentsor whether these ins and outs cause an increase or decrease in wage costs

so the approximate figure falls between -we haven''t a clue and we are just making up stuff

nb please feel free to use this information to praise, or attack the club with

[mrs miggins 0]

[in response to city 1st]

------------------------------

The reason for the thread was to see how we are using the money that we''ve received from transfers out, to transfers coming in. Although we know quite a lot of the figures involved, you''re right in the fact that we don''t know some and have to rely on reports. When looking at a player like Jerome for example, Stoke paid £4m for him and is now very much out of favour, therefore I very much doubt he was sold to us for more than that, yet I''m sure we''ve paid more than £1m because of his ability (but like you said, its guesswork). Using our knowledge of football (very limited for some) we can roughly estimate how much we''ve spent compared to how much has come in, for me its interesting to see how the money for the squad is being reinvested. We don''t know the exact figures - so what? whats £1m to us really?

[Bill 1,788]

" Although we know quite a lot of the figures involved"no true,the ony thing we do know is that we know none of the figures as they are always ''non disclosed''what is bandied about in the media is just guesswork - often way off the true figureeven these guessed at figures never tell us if they are the sum total of all costs to the buying club - or the initial payment to the selling clubwhilst they maybe harmless fun to amuse and sometimes over excite the not too bright there is the danger - as with the latter that these ''curiosities'' can lead to bad feeling when there should not be such feelings

there are about as accurate as the horoscopes in the newspapers

[mrs miggins 0]

its natural to be curious/speculate and to be so I don''t believe makes you stupid. Although we don''t know exact figures, from reports as well as our own knowledge we can say, for example that we received £6-8m for snodgrass and roughly £8m for Fer- give or take a few, it doesn''t matter if the real figure is rounded up to the nearest million for a fee like that. We perhaps sold Fer for around £8m and then replaced him with Ofoe for a (reportedly) mere £2.3m. Now we don''t know that we''ve paid £2.3m just like we don''t know how much he''ll be paid along with his agent, but what we can say is; ''has this been a good investment?'' ''We received a larger sum for Fer, has this reinvestment worked? (of course we''ll know the answer as time goes on).

From looking at how we have reinvested in our squad, we can see, almost irrespective of the transfer fee, if we have reinvested well. It wasn''t the fact that we may have paid around (allegedly) £8.5m for RVW, it was the fact that he was brought in to replace our goalscorer with even more goals and ended up being terrible for that season. We''ll know if its been a good reinvestment irrespective of the transfer fees, i''ve included them to give a slight indication of how much we have to spend, no its not accurate, its a bit of speculation, as you can see quite a few people have been interested. People might still be interested as the transfer window shuts, they may not, but I wouldn''t look down on people for debating areas like - how much did we get for this player? How much was he worth? Do we need to get another defender? etc. Saying curiosities can lead to bad feelings is perhaps the most boring thing i''ve ever heard, life''s full of curiosity. Enjoying the discussion and contributing positively to find out different things is what its all about.

[Indy 3,283]

For me the money doesn''t matter, as City1st said it''s too hard to put figures to.

What I love about the signings are that every player sold has been replaced by what on paper and evidence on the pitch are as good. Fer Wolf and Pilks have all been questionable last season and those who we have signed want to be here and will want to prove themselves next season in the Premiership......:-)

At least the wages have been cut, some money banked and quality replacements....well done Adams, MacNally & the board.

Credit to them all.

[mrs miggins 0]

well said!

[Yelloow Since 72 54]

I agree as well.

[Evesham Canary 0]

I think there is an argument (on paper at least) that we have potentially upgraded in some areas. A look at the ins and outs so far;

GK

Out - Nash In - Rudd Definite improvement.

DEF

Out - Yobo and effectively Bassong

In - Cuellar. Not really an improvement currently.

MID

Out - Fox, Fer, Snodgrass & Pilkington

In - O''Neill, VOO, Grandles. This is interesting because O''Neill is def an upgrade on Fox but we haven''t yet seen the other 2 so not sure on comparison but all 3 of the departed players could on their day have been counted as being one of the best players in this division,

FOR

Out - RVW & Elmander

In - Grabban, Lafferty & Jerome. Definite improvement. Grabban has already matched the combined goals total the 2 departed players managed in the whole of last season!

I think we are all agreed that at least 1 more defensive reinforcement is required and further departures should be replaced on a 1 in 1 out basis.

Loooking good.

[Bill 1,788]

[quote user="mrs miggins"]its natural to be curious/speculate and to be so I don''t believe makes you stupid. Although we don''t know exact figures, from reports as well as our own knowledge we can say, for example that we received £6-8m for snodgrass and roughly £8m for Fer- give or take a few, it doesn''t matter if the real figure is rounded up to the nearest million for a fee like that. We perhaps sold Fer for around £8m and then replaced him with Ofoe for a (reportedly) mere £2.3m. Now we don''t know that we''ve paid £2.3m just like we don''t know how much he''ll be paid along with his agent, but what we can say is; ''has this been a good investment?'' ''We received a larger sum for Fer, has this reinvestment worked? (of course we''ll know the answer as time goes on).

From looking at how we have reinvested in our squad, we can see, almost irrespective of the transfer fee, if we have reinvested well. It wasn''t the fact that we may have paid around (allegedly) £8.5m for RVW, it was the fact that he was brought in to replace our goalscorer with even more goals and ended up being terrible for that season. We''ll know if its been a good reinvestment irrespective of the transfer fees, i''ve included them to give a slight indication of how much we have to spend, no its not accurate, its a bit of speculation, as you can see quite a few people have been interested. People might still be interested as the transfer window shuts, they may not, but I wouldn''t look down on people for debating areas like - how much did we get for this player? How much was he worth? Do we need to get another defender? etc. Saying curiosities can lead to bad feelings is perhaps the most boring thing i''ve ever heard, life''s full of curiosity. Enjoying the discussion and contributing positively to find out different things is what its all about.[/quote]simply believing any old guff is positivepointing out the obvious flaws is negativedearie me

[mrs miggins 0]

Evesham Canary wrote the following post at 29/08/2014 10:31 PM:

I think we are all agreed that at least 1 more defensive reinforcement is required and further departures should be replaced on a 1 in 1 out basis.

Loooking good.

---------------------------

Yeah agree, but imo also think we perhaps need a LM, it depends if Neyul thinks Murphy can be a first team contender to push Redmond on.

[The Masked Raccoon 0]

Could someone please recap for me what Wiz said about NCFC during the summer and selling/buying players and where the money goes?

Pretty sure he''s posting as someone else at the moment (and likely to go quiet)

He is liable for a lot of things...apart from fact