How many games do we give Adams

[Mickdundee 0]

I''m fairly sure all the managers we could have had have their coaching badges too, they''d probably have managed as well

And possibly managed a win

You must be either really easy to please or massively gullible if you believe that he was ever the right man for the job.

Perhaps his stupid team selection was hughtons fault somehow

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

[quote user="Reggie Strayshun"][quote user="PurpleCanary"]Thanks for proving my point. You have not named one manager who is obviously better AND available. Why would Rosler (who I think will make a Premier League manager) move sideways from Wigan to us? And why would Howe, about whom I am less certain? And any manager from League One or Two would be a tremendous risk. Russell Slade? Did you look at his record before recommending him?[/quote]It hasn''t ''proved'' any point, one way or the other, Purple. Of course this is what happens when people are asked to ''name names''. The asker , when he doesn''t like the answer, just poo poos the suggestions. As I said, they are just general ideas; I''m sure when Lambert was appointed, no-one would have guessed it. It''s merely a principle...do you really think that a young up and coming experienced lower league manager would make himself ''unavailable'' if a team like Norwich came calling ? I''m being realistic enough to admit that EPL, Bundesliga, La Liga, and Serie A managers are perhaps a little out of our reach these days.You are, with respect, missing the whole point that I and many others have made re this. So I''ll put the ball in your court....Are you seriously suggesting that Neil Adams and ONLY Neil Adams was the best available candidate for us, irrespective of cost, in the whole of Europe in May 2014 ?[/quote]I am not missing any point, Reggie. As soon as you say "irrespective of cost" then you are widening the field to include many managers who in effect are not available to us. We could not, for example, afford Mourinho. You cannot glibly ignore cost.I have been consistent all along. I didn''t want Adams. I wanted Mackay, and so did the directors. Sadly Mackay didn''t want us as much as we wanted him. Failing Mackay I have not seen one name mentioned here (and that certainly includes those on your list) who was affordable and available - willing to take the job - and with a decent track record either in the Premier League or the Championship or a comparable league.It is not unfair of me to ask for alternative names. It is perfectly valid. There are people on this message-board (which might include you for all I know) who demonstrate an almost worrying knowledge of world football. Yet despite claiming in vague terms that there are any number of managers we coukd and should have attracted, are silent when asked for even only one specific name that ticks all those boxes.Of course even Russell Slade (despite a track record that would have caused mayhem here if chosen) might in practice end up doing a better job than Adams, but that is a different argument from saying that there are several managers good enough for a Championship side with the top six as the lowest of its ambitions.

[Canary001 0]

He has had six more than he deserves already.

[Bill 1,788]

which is two more than you

ps where have you been all this whilelooking for your previous login name perhaps?

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

[quote user="PurpleCanary"]I am not missing any point, Reggie. As soon as you say "irrespective of cost" then you are widening the field to include many managers who in effect are not available to us. We could not, for example, afford Mourinho. You cannot glibly ignore cost.I have been consistent all along. I didn''t want Adams. I wanted Mackay, and so did the directors. Sadly Mackay didn''t want us as much as we wanted him. Failing Mackay I have not seen one name mentioned here (and that certainly includes those on your list) who was affordable and available - willing to take the job - and with a decent track record either in the Premier League or the Championship or a comparable league.It is not unfair of me to ask for alternative names. It is perfectly valid. There are people on this message-board (which might include you for all I know) who demonstrate an almost worrying knowledge of world football. Yet despite claiming in vague terms that there are any number of managers we coukd and should have attracted, are silent when asked for even only one specific name that ticks all those boxes.Of course even Russell Slade (despite a track record that would have caused mayhem here if chosen) might in practice end up doing a better job than Adams, but that is a different argument from saying that there are several managers good enough for a Championship side with the top six as the lowest of its ambitions.[/quote]Look, I''m not going to get in a spat over this Purple. But you still have not explained how your view could be that ONLY Neil Adams was the best available candidate after this much vaunted trawl around Europe for a suitable applicant. Bluntly, neither you nor I are paid to know the identities of each and every likely looking possibility in Holland, Scandinavia, Slovakia, etc etc. There are people who are experts in this. Neither you nor I fall into that category.You are also  muddying the waters by talking about cost, as I have already admitted that we are now not in the position to attract a top grade EPL/Bundesliga etc manager.And, just poo pooing any name that is put forward will not do either. Just what problem would you have with, for example, Eddie Howe or Steve Evans ?I am not , as you say ''championing'' any one individual. Merely exposing the folly of suggesting that a guy with absolutely ZERO league management experience is the ONLY available candidate .Like you , I did not want Adams. and like you despite my misgivings, I''m prepared to see how things pan out with him at the helm. But let''s not continue to perpetuate this myth that he was the only, the stand out, candidate.

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

[quote user="Reggie Strayshun"][quote user="PurpleCanary"]I am not missing any point, Reggie. As soon as you say "irrespective of cost" then you are widening the field to include many managers who in effect are not available to us. We could not, for example, afford Mourinho. You cannot glibly ignore cost.I have been consistent all along. I didn''t want Adams. I wanted Mackay, and so did the directors. Sadly Mackay didn''t want us as much as we wanted him. Failing Mackay I have not seen one name mentioned here (and that certainly includes those on your list) who was affordable and available - willing to take the job - and with a decent track record either in the Premier League or the Championship or a comparable league.It is not unfair of me to ask for alternative names. It is perfectly valid. There are people on this message-board (which might include you for all I know) who demonstrate an almost worrying knowledge of world football. Yet despite claiming in vague terms that there are any number of managers we coukd and should have attracted, are silent when asked for even only one specific name that ticks all those boxes.Of course even Russell Slade (despite a track record that would have caused mayhem here if chosen) might in practice end up doing a better job than Adams, but that is a different argument from saying that there are several managers good enough for a Championship side with the top six as the lowest of its ambitions.[/quote]Look, I''m not going to get in a spat over this Purple. But you still have not explained how your view could be that ONLY Neil Adams was the best available candidate after this much vaunted trawl around Europe for a suitable applicant. Bluntly, neither you nor I are paid to know the identities of each and every likely looking possibility in Holland, Scandinavia, Slovakia, etc etc. There are people who are experts in this. Neither you nor I fall into that category.You are also  muddying the waters by talking about cost, as I have already admitted that we are now not in the position to attract a top grade EPL/Bundesliga etc manager.And, just poo pooing any name that is put forward will not do either. Just what problem would you have with, for example, Eddie Howe or Steve Evans ?I am not , as you say ''championing'' any one individual. Merely exposing the folly of suggesting that a guy with absolutely ZERO league management experience is the ONLY available candidate .Like you , I did not want Adams. and like you despite my misgivings, I''m prepared to see how things pan out with him at the helm. But let''s not continue to perpetuate this myth that he was the only, the stand out, candidate.[/quote]Because there was no trawl through all the countries of Europe! That was PR guff! The reality is this. Even as a Premier League side we didn''t get to pick from the top tier of management - the geniuses who always do well. Nor the second tier, of those (such as Lambert or Rodgers) who have done well with a small PL club and are looking to move up. We then - and even more now - get to pick from the third tier, of managers with a spotty track record. Managers over whom there is always at least one question-mark. So even as a Premier League club we ended up with Chris Hughton. If that was true then, it is even more so now.So what happened in the summer? Realistically we were never going to pick someone who had not managed in English football before. Of those who might be keen, they almost certainly would all have been too much of a risk, by being not highly qualified enough. Southampton have taken a chance on Koeman because he has a good track record with big clubs, but Koeman would not have come to us because we are in the Championship. And the same applies to those names mentioned here (such as Tuchel) BEFORE Hughton got sacked but when it looked as if we would just stay up.And someone with a job in the Premier League is not going to come down a tier to join us. Nor are those managers with a good Championship track record who are happy where they are, such as Rosler. Why would Rosler leave Wigan for us? If Rosler was going to jump ship it would either be for a Premier League club or possibly a big Championship club that has hit hard times but with enormous potential and kudos, such as Leeds or Nottingham Forest.  We might have attracted Howe, but the one time he left Bournemouth he was a failure.That leaves a Championship manager with one of those spotty records or someone with a good record in League One. Of the former, we chose the best option in Mackay, because his record was the best, or if you prefer the least worst. The others, such as Zola, had worse records in comparison. Of the latter I think we can quietly forget about your suggestion of Russell Slade. Steve Evans is an interesting case, with two promotions, but he now needs to show he can perform at our level. Not only does the same objection apply to Neil Lennon, but there is no evidence he wants to get back into football. If he did, why not go for the West Brom job, or those at Forest or Leeds? Or now at Huddersfield?The truth is, as exemplified by the choices made by Forest (Stuart Pearce???) and Leeds (Hockaday?????????), is that there are no obviously good managerial candidates out there for a top-six Championship club. If those two, bigger, clubs struggled to find a decent manager then it is no surprise that we did as well....this myth that he was the only, the stand out, candidate...""Merely exposing the folly of suggesting that a guy

with absolutely ZERO league management experience is the ONLY available

candidate."That is not what I have been saying, Reggie! Based on my analysis, which I think is fair, the directors ended up in a difficult position. The least-worst candidate (Mackay) didn''t want to know. By comparison, none of the others seemed as good. Now I wasn''t in the boardroom, but I have been present at a few selection meetings for jobs, and there is a psychology that can take over, in which the internal candidate, whom you know, starts to look more appealing than someone you don''t know about whom you have doubts. If Mackay had wanted the job he would have got it, because his CV was markedly better than Adams'', and the only real doubt was whether the football would be a bit dour. Successful but dour. But the directors then had to start comparing Adams with the CV of managers they liked less than Mackay. That changes things, because at least with the internal candidate you have seen them in action and have got a sense of their character. Against Mackay that wouldn''t matter, but against alternatives you have rejected in plumping for Mackay it starts to be a plus factor for the insider.I don''t believe, and have never said, that Adams was better than any other manager in world football, or the only available candidate. Only that of the not very impressive list of those who seemed to want the job there were understandable reasons why he was chosen. That doesn''t mean that someone on the list might not have ended up doing a better job. Of course that could have happened. But they might have done worse. As said above, we do not get to pick managers who have spotless records and are bound to succeed. There will always be a risk of failure with any one of them.

[norfolkngood 1,086]

I don''t want Adams as manager never have but I can see why the board gave him a chance I think we would all be happy before this if we had poached Liverpool / man utd / Chelsea youth fa cup winning manager thinking he may be the next Brenden Rodgers

I think it was worth a gamble but looks like it was the wrong choice it could of worked if adams did what he has been telling us his team will do since he took over

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

[quote user="PurpleCanary"]I don''t believe, and have never said, that Adams was better than any other manager in world football, or the only available candidate.[/quote]Well OK, Purple you have, in your interesting response, and particularly in the text above, clarified and qualified you original statement on Page 5 where you claimed that there was "no other obvious candidate, and still isn''t" . Which I maintain is simply not true, but now I see that that''s not really what you are meaning.There were/are plenty of other candidates, some of them ''available'', but the board chose not to hire them, particularly, as you say, when MM played hard to get. Fair enough. We''ll see if they are proven right or wrong over this. But I hope that you''ll agree at the very least that they have created a huge monkey on their backs by uttering all this "we searched the continent" stuff, which even you describe as PR guff ?!However you STILL have not addressed my point as to why you should poo poo Evans, Howe, and yes, even Slade (!) etc for not yet'' having performed at our level'' , when you say that your ''obvious'' candidate is a man who has never managed at any level whatsoever.

[Mr Jenkins 0]

Good discussion lads, nice one.

[YellowNets1901 0]

I haven''t read the 7 pages of this thread. Can''t really be bothered.

We have to give Adams 15 games at the very least. If we''re struggling after that then get him out and search Europe once again for the next best manager - who will probably end up being Ricky Martin :-)

[gabba 0]

Notwithstanding we should have got a decent manager in well before Hughton was sacked when we still had the pick of Europe, saying there was nobody better than Adams is ''little old Norwich'' par excellence. Purely as an example, Neil Warnock has an infinitely better record and probably would have jumped at the chance. Quite honestly the people excessively pushing this ''nobody better than a radio commentator'' line seem to me to be allied to the present regime more closely than they may care to admit!

[Parma Ham's gone mouldy 2,219]

Nice evaluation of the realpolitik of the choice PC.

In addition there was an elephant in the room that fans - ironically as opposed to business people like ourselves - should be glad and proud of; namely that Delia and Michael are Norwich City supporters.

They are not owners running a football club, they are running the club they love.

They really wanted someone who wanted to manage Norwich, not merely someone who wanted to manage "a club like Norwich" or "at this level".

This of course had elements of the scarring of the detachment that occurred with Hughton and the vaulting and one-eyed ambition of a Lambert, but it is rooted in wanting people that love club as they do, that "wear the shirt with pride" as fans would desire from players.

Sorry to disappoint, but this is not always the case with players.

In the case of Neil Adams it is true.

In business terms this might be criticised. Fans wearing their heart on their sleeve, complaining about a manager that truly loves the club and desperately wants to be the manager of Norwich, after only 6 games, makes me a little sad.

[ROKERITE 0]

Well said Parma Ham''s gone mouldy.

[Cheap Cheap Cheap Canaries 0]

I am sure Ryan Giggs loves Man Utd with a passion but their owners were not stupid enough to give him the job after a caretaker role .Loving the club and failure against an outsider and success is an easy choice .

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

Quite correct Cheap Cheap. I cannot think of a better analogy to reply to PHGM''s somewhat rambling post.You can talk in all sorts of terms like ''business'' , ''love for the club'', ''passion'', ''stability'' etc, but for most fans the bottom line is success on the pitch (or in our case the lack of it).

[Parma Ham's gone mouldy 2,219]

Despite forum wisdom to the contrary, the board - including McNally and Bowkett, who are experienced and often ruthless corporate operators - are not stupid.

Do you really think that they didn''t consider or factor in the little Norwich / Easy / Cheap option criticism?

Paradoxically this made Adams the brave choice, as it precisely this they have confronted and - notwithstanding it - appointed him anyway.

Those who know Neil know a steely operator, with ambition, intelligence, passion, full coaching qualifications and a love for Norwich. He has a healthy ego and huge desire for success at Norwich.

The Board have taken the greater risk by appointing him. It was a brave choice in the circumstances, not in any way the easy one. It shows great faith in him.

Might fans - who love the badge - not give one of their own a reasonable chance?

[Parma Ham's gone mouldy 2,219]

Oh and in response to the Giggs analogy - and without revealing my sources - I am reliably informed that Louis Van Gaal would have got the job ahead of Neil.

[Horse Renoir 1]

I''m not that concerned about Adams right now. I hate his seemingly continued policy of stand off zonal defending carried on from Hughton but whatever.

After Sunday I''m now much more concerned with our players, specifically the midfield and our right back situation.

On the whole as a team we are very weak physically in terms of strength and pace and we''ve clearly still got a problem with heads dropping after a setback.

O''Neill may help, Fer definitely will if we can keep him but I''m not a fan at all of Johnson, Tettey, Howson or Hoolahan (Anymore)

We need to do some business before the window shuts or we won''t make the play offs, regardless of who''s managing us

Another CB with pace (I''d like Barnett back now lol) and keep Martin at right back. I''d let Redmond and Ollson go. Redmond still isn''t there yet and Ollsons head clearly isn''t right like it was when he went down with Blackburn and I''d try to sign two centre midfielders.

Both of them commanding, fast, energetic, with a decent range of passing and an ability to hold and move with the ball. Maybe one of them a more defensive minded player and the other more forward thinking.

Easier said than done I know, but it''s what we desperately need because this team is so impotent in the middle at the moment in both attacking and defending as we were last year.

Also if Pilks isn''t injured get his head sorted Adams because he''d be exceptional at this level!

[Highland Canary 76]

So we lose Pilkington. One of the players in the squad capable of scoring 10+ goals in the Champs. And, worse, we sell to a ''promotion'' rival! Explain to be the logic of this especially as, apparently, we do not have to sell.

[Horse Renoir 1]

[quote user="Highland Canary"]So we lose Pilkington. One of the players in the squad capable of scoring 10+ goals in the Champs. And, worse, we sell to a ''promotion'' rival! Explain to be the logic of this especially as, apparently, we do not have to sell.[/quote]

I''m baffled I must admit, he (was) the best winger we had

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

[quote user="Darth Catbeard"][quote user="Highland Canary"]So we lose Pilkington. One of the players in the squad capable of scoring 10+ goals in the Champs. And, worse, we sell to a ''promotion'' rival! Explain to be the logic of this especially as, apparently, we do not have to sell.[/quote]

I''m baffled I must admit, he (was) the best winger we had[/quote]And thereby lies the problem, Darth.The tense of the bit in parentheses is the clincher here.....

[Dibs 0]

Starting not to care anymore, what a JOKE.

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

[quote user="Reggie Strayshun"][quote user="PurpleCanary"]I don''t believe, and have never said, that Adams was better than any other manager in world football, or the only available candidate.[/quote]1) Well OK, Purple you have, in your interesting response, and particularly in the text above, clarified and qualified you original statement on Page 5 where you claimed that there was "no other obvious candidate, and still isn''t" . Which I maintain is simply not true, but now I see that that''s not really what you are meaning.2) There were/are plenty of other candidates, some of them ''available'', but the board chose not to hire them, particularly, as you say, when MM played hard to get. Fair enough. We''ll see if they are proven right or wrong over this. But I hope that you''ll agree at the very least that they have created a huge monkey on their backs by uttering all this "we searched the continent" stuff, which even you describe as PR guff ?!3) However you STILL have not addressed my point as to why you should poo poo Evans, Howe, and yes, even Slade (!) etc for not yet'' having performed at our level'' , when you say that your ''obvious'' candidate is a man who has never managed at any level whatsoever.[/quote]Thanks for the reply, Reggie. We will be exchanging Christmas cards soon. To take your points:1) I may have clarified but not changed what I was saying. All along my definition of "obvious candidate" excluded anyone who didn''t want to join us, for whatever reason, or whose managerial record was simply not good enough to merit consideration. I always talked about those managers who were available and affordable. On that basis I entirely stand by the assertion that there was not (apart from Mackay) and still is not an obvious candidate.2) Why "even me"? Apart from being a season-ticket holder and shareholder I have no connection to the club. On the contrary I have frequently criticised the club (and especially its PR). For a long time I was probably the only person on this message-board who had anything bad to say about McNally.3) No, I have answered that point, with my quite lengthy explanation of the psychology (or what Parma called the realpolitik) of the situation in the boardroom. In crude terms the directors ended up with a choice between the possible abilities of Adams (who was only "obvious" in the sense that he was on the premises and in temporary charge) and those whose record gave no sign that they were up to managing a top-six Championship club.Bluntly, to take one of your names, choose Russell Slade (who has never managed in the second tier and whose record below is average) and you are voting for - at best - mid-table mediocrity. Against that you have the risk of Adams, who could be worse, or the same or better (and if Parma, as an insider or  quasi-insider is right there is a decent chance of better). But with Slade, given our ambition of a top-six finish, you know you are opting for failure.Finally, if you are going to quote me or paraphrase my views, please do it accurately. I have never said of Howe that he has not yet "performed at our level". I only expressed a doubt about his time at Burnley and whether he was available. Whether he would leave Bournemouth. If he had wanted the job I would have voted for him over Adams any day.

[Horse Renoir 1]

[quote user="Reggie Strayshun"][quote user="Darth Catbeard"][quote user="Highland Canary"]So we lose Pilkington. One of the players in the squad capable of scoring 10+ goals in the Champs. And, worse, we sell to a ''promotion'' rival! Explain to be the logic of this especially as, apparently, we do not have to sell.[/quote]

I''m baffled I must admit, he (was) the best winger we had[/quote]And thereby lies the problem, Darth.The tense of the bit in parentheses is the clincher here.....[/quote]

I''ve been a percy positive in all matters excluding Hughton since Lamberts first 4-1 against Wycombe but I am really struggling to understand what the board and Adams are playing at at the moment.

Pilkington is by far our best wide player, he''s not the quickest but unlike Snodgrass he has a fantastic end product and scores goals and we''re selling to a Championship rival? I really don''t get this one.

[iron_stan 0]

my biggest concern is the lack of adams experience which was confirmed not only by the pre season shambles but also the fact wolves looked fitter, bigger, uglier, and far more organisedthey looked like a team not just a bunch of individuals getting frustrated with each other

mike phelan, ian culverhouse, malky mackay, neil lennonall available/unemployed, and all with considerably more experience than adams, all much much better options

[Herman 9,712]

[quote user="iron_stan"]my biggest concern is the lack of adams experience which was confirmed not only by the pre season shambles but also the fact wolves looked fitter, bigger, uglier, and far more organisedthey looked like a team not just a bunch of individuals getting frustrated with each other

mike phelan, ian culverhouse, malky mackay, neil lennonall available/unemployed, and all with considerably more experience than adams, all much much better options[/quote]

Why are they still unemployed even with numerous clubs looking for managers over the past many months?

[Branston Pickle 3,634]

This thread is interesting, as it does rather see that most people have already made their minds up and the answer to the subject is: one game.

[Mickdundee 0]

It''s not one game it''s six, he''s had six in which we haven''t won, and more importantly haven''t looked likely to.

So I would say seven is the magic number including last season, the pilks issue is just the icing on the cake.

He spoke in an interview this week that nobody was out of his plans then oops there goes pilks

[Felixfan 53]

Selling Pilks. If true is a major mistake and puts a major question mark over Adams man management skills. A quality player to a rival for peanuts is not good business. On that basis I would put N.A. on a short lease.

[# 0]

[quote user="Felixfan"]Selling Pilks. If true is a major mistake and puts a major question mark over Adams man management skills. A quality player to a rival for peanuts is not good business. On that basis I would put N.A. on a short lease.[/quote]

 

Huzzah! [Y]