Hypotheticals.......

[Yelloow Since 72 54]

My worry for this season is inflated expectations (again). Gaining promotion is going to be much harder than staying in the PL. There is little margin for error. The reaction of fans is an important part of that and whatever some say to the contrary the booing and divisiveness did play a part in our downfall last season. We won''t have any real idea of how the new team will work until halfway through, IMO. I think and hope it will, but it won''t be easy.

[Highland Canary 76]

Perhaps, this is why a more efficacious strategy would have been to maximise our likelihood of promotion in the short-term.

[FCC 76]

I just want to enjoy my football again, being entertained with competitive football and players who want to play and win for Norwich City -

AND

I want to win every game, including the cups!

[Herman 9,696]

[quote user="Highland Canary"]Perhaps, this is why a more efficacious strategy would have been to maximise our likelihood of promotion in the short-term.[/quote]

Who could they have employed to guarantee that?

And anyway it''s too bloody late.

[Highland Canary 76]

In fairness Herman, the OP was discussing ''hypotheticals'' and I mentioned ''likelihood''. I''m interested is there anybody who believes we are now in a better position than if, for example, we had chosen the available Lennon?

[sgncfc 1,221]

[quote user="Highland Canary"]In fairness Herman, the OP was discussing ''hypotheticals'' and I mentioned ''likelihood''. I''m interested is there anybody who believes we are now in a better position than if, for example, we had chosen the available Lennon?[/quote]

Personally, I''d have gone for Lennon. But we didn''t and I''m happy to support Team Adams. But no-one should be under any illusions.

We start next season as promotion favourites. We have the best squad of players at the moment by a country mile. Even when two or three of them leave, we will still have the best squad by a country mile. We could probably field two teams who should be top 6 in the Championship.

Everyone goes on and on about what a tough league it is. It''s not. Let''s not make this harder than it is. Our aim is promotion via the top 2 and anything less next season is failure, even the playoffs.

We SHOULD do a Newcastle. If we don''t, it will, unfortunately, be down to the manager.

Adams knows the score. If we are not in the top 6 at Christmas, he will be sacked. It''s that simple.

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

[quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="City1st"]And what pray is posting up this supposed hypothetical sh ite, if not to drag out past arguments ?To what end .... other than to cause friction amongst folk on here ?The season is still a couple of months away and here you are talking about the manager failing ............................. whilst bleating on about fans getting behind the team.Sadly there are still those too dim to not to see through this troll.[/quote]

What a joy of a post, but you, as usual, are like a dog p*ssing at the wrong tree trunk.......

Its a legitimate thread.   There has been quite a lot of "bleating" already about the selection of Adams - and several posters saying he has to do well straight away.   My point is that we have to be patient - and yes I''ve said it before - but it is relevant, whoever is manager.   I think we''ll be successful under Adams - but it may not be instant success - it may take a while to get the balance right. 

[/quote]So...... I was right first time LDC. You are indeed getting your excuses in good and early.The impression you are giving is , here it is, early June, and you are saying that it''s likely that things are not likely  to go well from Aug onwards. You choose to counter that by saying we will be "successful " under Adams, but the overall message is, ''don''t expect too much ''.So, no we are not ''p*ssing up the wrong tree trunk'', as you so charmingly put it. You are giving out a very negative and downbeat message here LDC. And a very mixed message too, as , in your own OP, you are berating fans for doing just that.

[TIL 1010 4,717]

When will you ever learn Lakey to give it a rest lecturing. Last season should have been a lesson to you to STFU when you got it completely wrong game after game,week after week and when finally it was too late you did thankfully give up to a certain degree. Unfortunately off we go again with the same 5hite but just in a different bucket telling us how things showed be viewed in the football world according to you.

[Herman 9,696]

[quote user="Highland Canary"]In fairness Herman, the OP was discussing ''hypotheticals'' and I mentioned ''likelihood''. I''m interested is there anybody who believes we are now in a better position than if, for example, we had chosen the available Lennon?[/quote]

 

If it was just Adams and assistants/coaches I would have been worried about the coming season. But with the restructuring of the backroom staff I am more optimistic that the future of the club is in good hands. Building a team and club ethos is a good long term plan.

Any other manager including Lennon would have meant doing exactly the same thing that us and most clubs have been doing for years. Sack one set of managers/assistants and replace with another set. Keep doing this until a new Lambert is found. 

[Katie Borkins 1]

[quote user="TIL 1010"]When will you ever learn Lakey to give it a rest lecturing. Last season should have been a lesson to you to STFU when you got it completely wrong game after game,week after week and when finally it was too late you did thankfully give up to a certain degree. Unfortunately off we go again with the same 5hite but just in a different bucket telling us how things showed be viewed in the football world according to you.[/quote]Not that there''ll be much viewing this season, what with the lack of streams available...

[Levi Stubbs 0]

[quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="Barclay seats 4849 the 3rd"][quote user="Levi Stubbs"]it makes FCUK ALL difference to what happens in the stands,be it CR or elswhere, or on the pitch!!![/quote]

THIS !!![/quote]If you actually read what I posted,you will see that I said that YOU make fuck all difference to what happens at CR,elsewhere or on the pitch!It doesn''t matter that you start 4/5 threads on the same day,on the same subject.YOU don''t hold influence over anyone!Understand?

That is where you are so wrong.  Players are not robots.   They and managers talk about fans being the twelfth man on the pitch when they cheering the team on.   If there is too much tension in the crowd - and don''t tell me the crowd doesn''t get tense or nervous at times because it does - then that can have a worse effect - like the team playing playing with ten men.  You''re wrong if you think that the crowd doesn''t have an effect on the pitch, for good or bad.   Totally wrong.

[/quote]

[lappinitup 629]

[quote user="Bor Bor Bor"]Not that there''ll be much viewing this season, what with the lack of streams available...[/quote]That won''t stop Lakey. He''ll read Ricardo''s report, watch the goals on The Football League Show and then tell us what a poor game Snoddy had. [:''(]

[Mr Jenkins 0]

lappin

"That won''t stop Lakey. He''ll read Ricardo''s report, watch the goals on The Football League Show and then tell us what a poor game Snoddy had. Crying [:''(]"

I think you were actually serious when you posted that, and you are correct

[gabba 0]

If anything was learned last season it was that we were too nice when

things weren''t going well. If we''re not in the top six after say 10 games

then we should be prepared to boo the team off the pitch and chant for Adams to be sacked. Tough love instead of an arm round the shoulder would be needed or we''ll be stuck in this division for years on end.

[lake district canary 4,530]

[quote user="TIL 1010"]When will you ever learn Lakey to give it a rest lecturing. Last season should have been a lesson to you to STFU when you got it completely wrong game after game,week after week and when finally it was too late you did thankfully give up to a certain degree. Unfortunately off we go again with the same 5hite but just in a different bucket telling us how things showed be viewed in the football world according to you.[/quote]

Its not a lecture.  I asked the question that is all.  The question is how long will fans give Adams to succeed.  The evidence from the Hughton era is not encouraging - and some of the replies on here are not encouraging either.   The evidence near the beginning of our first season in the premiership was not good either.  I remember questioning people who said we were not good enough, the players weren''t good enough and some were talking about a relegation decider in October for goodness sake (the Blackburn 3-3 match).   The readiness of some people to have a downer on our club is staggering.  Imo, the whole of next season is what matters, not the first five, or ten games.   Its only what I said about Hughton too, after all - give the manager the whole season.  And I don''t know why people think I am talking the situation down - I''m not - I''m just being realistic. 

What on earth is the point in having a downer on a new manager if things aren''t immediately successful?   Do we have to be good all the time and if not we are worthless??    The way some talk its as if we have to be successful or we are nothing.  Its the old Man City syndrome - never good enough because they were always in the shadow of Man Utd.   But who are we in the shadow of??   Nobody.   

Give the manager time or if we''re not careful we''ll end up with manager, after manager, after manager, after ma....

And we all know where that leads.

[TIL 1010 4,717]

Well if you only asked a question Lakey why tell someone that are so wrong with their reply and tell somebody else they are like a dog pi55ing up the wrong tree.

They have a point of view which does not agree with your take on things and off you go yet again trying to impose your version on everyone. .Thing is we have been here a thousand times so deep joy is on the horizon with your multiple threads following every game next season. [:''(]

[lappinitup 629]

[quote user="lake district canary"]Its not a lecture...[/quote]And here is Lakey NOT giving a lecture....... [:D]

[Katie Borkins 1]

So I think to summarise, LDC''s view is: "I will give the new management team time, and will be patient as I believe they will be successful in time."I''m not sure even Bowkett and McNally will be that generous with time, as both have stated the need to get back to the Premier League at the first attempt.  Adams knows this and will be under pressure from Day 1 to get results, and 12th place at Christmas may not be good enough to justify his continuation.  If LDC wants to be more patient than the club''s senior management then that''s his prerogative but it does suggest he''s a little out of touch with the reality at the club, and that it''s not "other supporters" who don''t get it - it''s him.

[OldRobert 38]

Not it isn''t Lapps, they look as if they might be listening![;)]

[lappinitup 629]

[quote user="OldRobert"]Not it isn''t Lapps, they look as if they might be listening![;)][/quote][Y] [:D]

[lake district canary 4,530]

[quote user="TIL 1010"]

Well if you only asked a question Lakey why tell someone that are so wrong with their reply and tell somebody else they are like a dog pi55ing up the wrong tree.

They have a point of view which does not agree with your take on things and off you go yet again trying to impose your version on everyone. .Thing is we have been here a thousand times so deep joy is on the horizon with your multiple threads following every game next season. [:''(]

[/quote]

I told someone they were wrong because they are wrong (as well as being aggressive) - fans can affect what happens on the pitch for good or bad. If you believe otherwise you might as well stay at home and watch the grass grow.

I told City 1st he is p*ssing up the wrong tree trunk, because that is what he does most of the time, including on this thread.

Apart from that, most people seem to have at least replied with some kind of argument/discussion.   Shame the others couldn''t.......

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

[quote user="lake district canary"]

Apart from that, most people seem to have at least replied with some kind of argument/discussion.   Shame the others couldn''t.......

[/quote].......And that, in a nutshell, is the nub of the problem as far as these threads go with you, LDC.You  don''t do discussion. Just argument.You decide what your take is on any given subject and beat the drum relentlessly. Anyone with any other viewpoint is either ''wrong'' or (as you''ve said to me and a few others on numerous occasions) ''misrepresenting what you said''. Whatever, they are not listened to, acknowledged or understood.It''s not a terribly effective way of running a debate, and I really do not see why you are surprised that people tend to get aggressive when you come out with this fixed-minded lecturing claptrap.

[lake district canary 4,530]

[quote user="Reggie Strayshun"][quote user="lake district canary"]Apart from that, most people seem to have at least replied with some kind of argument/discussion.   Shame the others couldn''t.......[/quote].......And that, in a nutshell, is the nub of the problem as far as these threads go with you, LDC.You  don''t do discussion. Just argument.You decide what your take is on any given subject and beat the drum relentlessly. Anyone with any other viewpoint is either ''wrong'' or (as you''ve said to me and a few others on numerous occasions) ''misrepresenting what you said''. Whatever, they are not listened to, acknowledged or understood.It''s not a terribly effective way of running a debate, and I really do not see why you are surprised that people tend to get aggressive when you come out with this fixed-minded lecturing claptrap.[/quote]

Some people just don''t like having their view of things questioned - such as the truth that fans as a whole can make a difference to what happens on the pitch - which some people just can''t seem to understand.   Its a truth, yet some people (Levi Stubbs on this thread) react violently when you tell them they can make a difference. 

Most of the time though I am asking the question, yet some of the usuals refuse to answer it with any kind of reasoned response.  Plenty of people have answered it - so why can''t they?? 

The question and reason for the thread was - how long do we give Adams before the negative from some of our fanbase gets going?   We all know it will get going if the team don''t do well straight away.   I think we will do well, but it may take longer than the few weeks at the beginning of the season - so I think we need to be patient.  The reasoned replies so far are mixed, but at least those that answered the question either way, put reasons across.  The others...........

[Bill 1,788]

"Some people just don''t like having their view of things questioned" LDCoh dearoh dearie, dear me

[TIL 1010 4,717]

[quote user="City1st"]"Some people just don''t like having their view of things questioned" LDC

oh dear

oh dearie, dear me


[/quote]

You beat me to it City1st as I could not stop laughing. [:D]

 

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

[quote user="TIL 1010"]

[quote user="City1st"]"Some people just don''t like having their view of things questioned" LDCoh dearoh dearie, dear me

[/quote]

You beat me to it City1st as I could not stop laughing. [:D]

 

[/quote]Thought much the same.It''s only a matter of time before TCCanary/Morty (or whatever silly name he''s calling himself this week...) weighs in with this, as he''s another of that persuasion. No room for discussion/debate, particularly if it doesn''t fit in with whatever his latest hobby horse is.

[lake district canary 4,530]

Laugh all you want.  At least I''m not round the twist (C1), someone who thinks he is the forum policing sentinel, someone who thinks he is king of the board, someone who thinks he is the court jester, or a teacher who thinks he can argue but can only do it  by misrepresenting, either on purpose or by mistake, I can''t make up my mind which. 

As for me, I''ll continue to ask the questions. People can respond how you like.  There are enough good replies on here to show that at least SOME people don''t mind talking about the thread.  On that - it makes you wonder - if people don''t think that they contribute to the negativity when they are complaining/moaning - how can they think that when they are cheering/enjoying things, they are having any positive effect either........ 

The club that stands out this last season is Crystal Palace - you couldn''t level at them the label "only sing when you''re winning".  The last two seasons have been absolutely sh*t from a supporting point of view for us.  Even when playing well, no credit was given - so much eventually that the players came out and said they didn''t understand why the fans were so against things ALL the time.   So they do notice when the fans are negative.  But that message just doesn''t seem to get through to people.   You would think that somewhere along the line some people might stop and think before they moan/complain/boo/chant out against the manager when the team is still in a position to compete..........but maybe that is just too much to ask. 

I just fear we are going to end up in a similar situation as the last two years if people don''t show a bit of patience this time.  It almost seems as if some are saying we have to do well straight away or they will be calling for Adams'' head after a few games.  That would be unrealistic, self-defeating and lead to more negativity around the place.

[lappinitup 629]

[Bill 1,788]

"Laugh all you want.  At least I''m not round the twist" LDCthis begs the thought that this is not some glorious wind up, but that he is for real

[lake district canary 4,530]

[quote user="City1st"]"Laugh all you want.  At least I''m not round the twist" LDCthis begs the thought that this is not some glorious wind up, but that he is for real[/quote]

(C1)  [;)]