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Newton

Money to Burn

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For those of you who thought we had wasted £8.5M on the Wolf (I am one of those who do)

 

Consider Fulham

£12M last summer on Bryan Ruiz no goals by Christmas and sent on loan to PSV

£11.5M on Olympiacos leading scorer in Jan - no goals only started 3 games

Now - £11M on McCormack - 28 goals last season

I would also suspect Fulhams first 2 strikers are already looking to move on by way of a permanent deal or loans given the level of football they have played at in the past, they must be staring in the face of a bigger loss than we could have if the Wolf left



 

I think I prefer our forward options

£3M Grabban  - 23 goals last season,

£4M ? Lafferty - plenty of experience scored where ever he has played, the type of forward we lacked season

Loza - massive potential

£8.5M Wolf - massive flop, may or may not be here next season

£5M Hooper - proven scorer at this level (we must either keep him or if sold replace with proven quality like Rhodes not someone with potential like Wilson)

 

I prefer our forward options at a cost of  £20M against Fulhams at a cost of £34.5M

 

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Other clubs have more money to throw around than we do.   When we spend £8m on a player it is a huge deal, for other clubs with more financial backing, £8m + is not seen as such a big hit.

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Newton. A question.

   

If you were to play Fifa or Football Manager who would you buy in? Because you seem to have a lot of opinions apart from WHO we should be aiming for

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You know Fulham signed Ruiz back in 2011 don''t you? And he cost around £10m and was regarded as one of their best players for a couple of seasons.

 

£11m for McCormack is just stupid, of course it could pay off and he''ll fire them back to the Premier League, but it''s a massive gamble. Especially considering how awful the Fulham defence was last season and they''ve lost their best midfielder.

 

The Mitroglou deal was linked to a lot of clauses and performance fees, they won''t have to pay a large portion of it off if they are in the Championship and if he doesn''t perform.

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It''s an odd one really isn''t it? Ruiz has looked class at the World Cup but his style really doesn''t suit the hustle of english football. He should go to Serie A where he can have more time on the ball.

Grabban for me looks a particularly impressive buy now for the £3m we''ve paid. He has pace that will always cause damage at this level and he can handle the physical side of the game. He made a big impression on Clinton Morrison when a yts at Palace (maybe his Jamaican roots helped) and I think he''ll make a flying start for us.

Hooper will score at this level, especially next to someone like Lafferty or Grabban that will work harder and put themselves about more than RvW. If he goes, I hope we get Rhodes in as i think he''d suit us more anyway but if not, i''m sure Hooper will score goals at this level.

Wolf will suit playing in a team that are usually on the attack. He seems to be one of those that needs everyone else ticking or he doesn''t. He isn''t the guy to change games on his own but he will help us punish teams who let us attack them. I hope we see him next season just so we see the gamble through.

Lafferty will suit playing with any of our strikers, has strength and knows what it takes to get the best team on paper promoted. Ignore his goals record at Burnley where he was a) very young, b) played on the wing and c) often a late substitute. As for the dodgy attitude? Bring it on, we need a couple of guys in our dressing room with balls that will stir things up. As long as he keeps away from the other players wives!

The thing about McCormack, he''s had 1 exceptional season. That''s the same as Grabban and he''s nearly 4 times the price. He''ll do alright at Fulham but i dunno he''s worth £11m.

The one name we have that I really want us to keep and use properly is Fer. Even if it''s just for half a season. I think with his height and confidence from the world cup he can put his injuries behind him and basically be the Yaya Toure of the championship. A workhorse like Johnson or Tettey can do the dirty work and Fer can bomb forward. I think we''d see more set piece goals from him this season as well as he was a bit unlucky last season I thought.

The excellent youth options will just add to our depth and keep our first teamers on their toes. One bad game and there''s a guy ready to take your place. Just how it should be.

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I am very happy with the 2 forwards we have purchased, the prices were right for us and the quality is good for this level

 

As I previously stated, if Hooper goes he needs to be replaced with proven goal scoring quality at this level and not just raw potential ie Wilsonl, the only name that springs to mind is Rhodes, but then I am not a scout. Others are paid to do that

 

The Wolf needs to go on loan for 12 mths abroad and review our options with him next season, there is nothing to be gained by keeping him as backup to our existing strike force and destroying his confidence even more

 

This season is our best chance to go back up as the parachute payments taper away quite quickly in following years

 

McNally knows we do not have a bottomless pit of funds unlike Fulham apparently and will not allow the club to be put at risk in a failed attempt to gain promotion

 

Do you have an opion Jimmy Yellow cant see it , waiting for it ?

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I don''t think the Wolf will simply be back up. He will be given as good a chance as the others and if he''s as good as we thought he was all along then he''ll grab that chance and bang in like 20-30 goals.

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Oh and i''d probably take Deeney as a replacement for Hooper as well. Off the top of my head, only Deeney and Rhodes would cut it for me though.

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[quote user="Jimmy Smith"]It''s an odd one really isn''t it? Ruiz has looked class at the World Cup but his style really doesn''t suit the hustle of english football. He should go to Serie A where he can have more time on the ball.

Grabban for me looks a particularly impressive buy now for the £3m we''ve paid. He has pace that will always cause damage at this level and he can handle the physical side of the game. He made a big impression on Clinton Morrison when a yts at Palace (maybe his Jamaican roots helped) and I think he''ll make a flying start for us.

Hooper will score at this level, especially next to someone like Lafferty or Grabban that will work harder and put themselves about more than RvW. If he goes, I hope we get Rhodes in as i think he''d suit us more anyway but if not, i''m sure Hooper will score goals at this level.

Wolf will suit playing in a team that are usually on the attack. He seems to be one of those that needs everyone else ticking or he doesn''t. He isn''t the guy to change games on his own but he will help us punish teams who let us attack them. I hope we see him next season just so we see the gamble through.

Lafferty will suit playing with any of our strikers, has strength and knows what it takes to get the best team on paper promoted. Ignore his goals record at Burnley where he was a) very young, b) played on the wing and c) often a late substitute. As for the dodgy attitude? Bring it on, we need a couple of guys in our dressing room with balls that will stir things up. As long as he keeps away from the other players wives!

The thing about McCormack, he''s had 1 exceptional season. That''s the same as Grabban and he''s nearly 4 times the price. He''ll do alright at Fulham but i dunno he''s worth £11m.

The one name we have that I really want us to keep and use properly is Fer. Even if it''s just for half a season. I think with his height and confidence from the world cup he can put his injuries behind him and basically be the Yaya Toure of the championship. A workhorse like Johnson or Tettey can do the dirty work and Fer can bomb forward. I think we''d see more set piece goals from him this season as well as he was a bit unlucky last season I thought.

The excellent youth options will just add to our depth and keep our first teamers on their toes. One bad game and there''s a guy ready to take your place. Just how it should be.[/quote]

What kind of formation do you think NA will be looking at JS? And what would you like to see based on the current personnel?

The World Cup has certainly shown that teams with , shall we say, less ability, can match it if they approach the game positively.

I do like the Dutch 3-4-3 based on having a big striker alongside a good finisher with a fast tricky winger who isn''t afraid to shoot.

We know NA is talking positively and I do hope the silly one up front has run its course (even you Roy) and we get back to looking to win rather than not losing.

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[quote user="keelansgrandad"][quote user="Jimmy Smith"]It''s an odd one really isn''t it? Ruiz has looked class at the World Cup but his style really doesn''t suit the hustle of english football. He should go to Serie A where he can have more time on the ball. Grabban for me looks a particularly impressive buy now for the £3m we''ve paid. He has pace that will always cause damage at this level and he can handle the physical side of the game. He made a big impression on Clinton Morrison when a yts at Palace (maybe his Jamaican roots helped) and I think he''ll make a flying start for us. Hooper will score at this level, especially next to someone like Lafferty or Grabban that will work harder and put themselves about more than RvW. If he goes, I hope we get Rhodes in as i think he''d suit us more anyway but if not, i''m sure Hooper will score goals at this level. Wolf will suit playing in a team that are usually on the attack. He seems to be one of those that needs everyone else ticking or he doesn''t. He isn''t the guy to change games on his own but he will help us punish teams who let us attack them. I hope we see him next season just so we see the gamble through. Lafferty will suit playing with any of our strikers, has strength and knows what it takes to get the best team on paper promoted. Ignore his goals record at Burnley where he was a) very young, b) played on the wing and c) often a late substitute. As for the dodgy attitude? Bring it on, we need a couple of guys in our dressing room with balls that will stir things up. As long as he keeps away from the other players wives! The thing about McCormack, he''s had 1 exceptional season. That''s the same as Grabban and he''s nearly 4 times the price. He''ll do alright at Fulham but i dunno he''s worth £11m. The one name we have that I really want us to keep and use properly is Fer. Even if it''s just for half a season. I think with his height and confidence from the world cup he can put his injuries behind him and basically be the Yaya Toure of the championship. A workhorse like Johnson or Tettey can do the dirty work and Fer can bomb forward. I think we''d see more set piece goals from him this season as well as he was a bit unlucky last season I thought. The excellent youth options will just add to our depth and keep our first teamers on their toes. One bad game and there''s a guy ready to take your place. Just how it should be.[/quote] What kind of formation do you think NA will be looking at JS? And what would you like to see based on the current personnel? The World Cup has certainly shown that teams with , shall we say, less ability, can match it if they approach the game positively. I do like the Dutch 3-4-3 based on having a big striker alongside a good finisher with a fast tricky winger who isn''t afraid to shoot. We know NA is talking positively and I do hope the silly one up front has run its course (even you Roy) and we get back to looking to win rather than not losing.[/quote]

 

We very rarely played one up front as suggested, it was always 4-4-1-1 which turns in to 4-4-2 whilst attacking (which was rare) or we played 4-3-3 which is the formation that most clubs play in the Premier League.

 

When we started with 2 strikers up top after fans calling for it for ages, we were naff!!!

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I think we''ll start the season with a 4-4-2. 2 deep lying energetic Centre Mids, 2 quick wingers and 2 guys who will combine well to stick it in the net with a varying type of goals. Fer and Tettey will be enough to boss the middle, Bennett and Redmond to start on the wings and Grabban and one of the others to start the first game.

Obvioulsly we''ll adapt depending on form, injuries and tactics but that will be our basis for plan A. We should look to win through superior players rather than anything clever on the tactics board. Keep it simple and assert ourselves on games.

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Newton,

   

My opinion is simple. Keep the current squad and play to their strengths. Hughton did not do this and we failed. Give the players greater freedom to express themselves. Why do we need to folk out millions on a striker that may or may not be good and score 20+ goals. We have that uncertainty now in RVW and Hooper. Stick by them and feed them with chances and the goals will come. A player does not get bad overnight. It takes most players at least a season to adjust to a new club. So stick by them and they will score. No need to buy Rhodes etc.. for 8+ million when we have that here already.

   

Although i dont mind a freshening up of new players i dont feel a big change is needed. Dont change for changes sake.

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[quote user="ellis206"]

[quote user="keelansgrandad"][quote user="Jimmy Smith"]It''s an odd one really isn''t it? Ruiz has looked class at the World Cup but his style really doesn''t suit the hustle of english football. He should go to Serie A where he can have more time on the ball. Grabban for me looks a particularly impressive buy now for the £3m we''ve paid. He has pace that will always cause damage at this level and he can handle the physical side of the game. He made a big impression on Clinton Morrison when a yts at Palace (maybe his Jamaican roots helped) and I think he''ll make a flying start for us. Hooper will score at this level, especially next to someone like Lafferty or Grabban that will work harder and put themselves about more than RvW. If he goes, I hope we get Rhodes in as i think he''d suit us more anyway but if not, i''m sure Hooper will score goals at this level. Wolf will suit playing in a team that are usually on the attack. He seems to be one of those that needs everyone else ticking or he doesn''t. He isn''t the guy to change games on his own but he will help us punish teams who let us attack them. I hope we see him next season just so we see the gamble through. Lafferty will suit playing with any of our strikers, has strength and knows what it takes to get the best team on paper promoted. Ignore his goals record at Burnley where he was a) very young, b) played on the wing and c) often a late substitute. As for the dodgy attitude? Bring it on, we need a couple of guys in our dressing room with balls that will stir things up. As long as he keeps away from the other players wives! The thing about McCormack, he''s had 1 exceptional season. That''s the same as Grabban and he''s nearly 4 times the price. He''ll do alright at Fulham but i dunno he''s worth £11m. The one name we have that I really want us to keep and use properly is Fer. Even if it''s just for half a season. I think with his height and confidence from the world cup he can put his injuries behind him and basically be the Yaya Toure of the championship. A workhorse like Johnson or Tettey can do the dirty work and Fer can bomb forward. I think we''d see more set piece goals from him this season as well as he was a bit unlucky last season I thought. The excellent youth options will just add to our depth and keep our first teamers on their toes. One bad game and there''s a guy ready to take your place. Just how it should be.[/quote] What kind of formation do you think NA will be looking at JS? And what would you like to see based on the current personnel? The World Cup has certainly shown that teams with , shall we say, less ability, can match it if they approach the game positively. I do like the Dutch 3-4-3 based on having a big striker alongside a good finisher with a fast tricky winger who isn''t afraid to shoot. We know NA is talking positively and I do hope the silly one up front has run its course (even you Roy) and we get back to looking to win rather than not losing.[/quote]

 

We very rarely played one up front as suggested, it was always 4-4-1-1 which turns in to 4-4-2 whilst attacking (which was rare) or we played 4-3-3 which is the formation that most clubs play in the Premier League.

 

When we started with 2 strikers up top after fans calling for it for ages, we were naff!!!

[/quote]

I''m sorry but I can''t agree. 4-4-1-1 is one up front in my book. And personally I don''t think it was that. Sondgrass and Redmond, the normal two wide men did not not play advanced up the pitch so who was the -1 behind the striker? I believe it was the Everton match in January before Hooper and Wolfswinkel started a match together.

I don''t have the stats but from starting the match, it was the wide men or Fer who were expected to support the lone striker.

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Look at this another way

 

Liverpool spent £20M on Sturridge & Countinho

 

Fulham spent £23M on Mitroglu & McCormack

Absolutely shocking business, no wonder they sacked their Chief Scout

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Yes but he would have been purchased on the recommendation of the previous Chief Scout, I wonder where he is plying his trade now ?

Dubai Mark, can u help ?

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[quote user="Newton"]

Look at this another way

 

Liverpool spent £20M on Sturridge & Countinho

 

Fulham spent £23M on Mitroglu & McCormack

Absolutely shocking business, no wonder they sacked their Chief Scout

[/quote]

He just identified the players, those and most likely a few others within the parameters set by the manager. The manager would have decided he wanted Mitroglou from the list of strikers Simmons would have identified then the chief exec/owner would have been the one who got fleeced and out negotiated.

It''s the same as people who are bashing Ewan Chester, he would have been told by the management, ie forward-poacher with a consistent scoring record in their league 5-10 million

He would have gone out and found Hooper and RVW but Hughton was the one who wanted them above the others off that list, it''s known he also identified Bony and would have recommended a few others as well. Hell, even if they were his only two finds who knows how they might have turned out if they weren''t forced into Hughtons dour, ineffective isolating system

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If RM fires Fulham back to the PL then that will be money well spent. Sometimes you have to take a punt but for me they overpaid. I think our forward line is OK (not sure about Lafferty but hoping to be proven wrong) - I hope we can keep Hooper, and Grabban seems a decent prospect. It might sound odd given our lack of goals last season but I would rather we spent our money in other areas (creative midfielder and defense). I just hope we don''t try to do things on the cheap. Sometimes you do need to pay over the odds to get the right player that makes a difference. Fulham seem to believe RM is the man to do it for them - I''m not so sure about that. Interesting season ahead.

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Given Fulham are in a similar position to us in that if they fail to achieve promotion this season what remains of their better players will be poached, it is entirely understandable, and indeed commendable, that their focus is on an immediate return to the PL

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[quote user="Newton"]

Look at this another way

 

Liverpool spent £20M on Sturridge & Countinho

 

Fulham spent £23M on Mitroglu & McCormack

Absolutely shocking business, no wonder they sacked their Chief Scout

[/quote]

Andy Carroll £35 million.

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The big difference here is

Liverpool qualified for the Champions League

West Ham finished in mid Table in the Prem

Fulham got relegated

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Your logic is flawed. If his judgement effectively bought the players from last season and eventually caused the relegation of fulham. Then the season before he brought these players in

DatePos.NameFromFeeSource
28 June 2012STCroatia Mladen PetricGermany HamburgFree[1]
12 July 2012STColombia Hugo RodallegaEngland Wigan AthleticFree[2]
31 August 2012STBulgaria Dimitar BerbatovEngland Manchester United£4,000,000[3]
31 August 2012MFEngland Kieran RichardsonEngland Sunderland£2,000,000[4]
31 August 2012MFIran Ashkan DejagahGermany Wolfsburg£2,000,000[5]
11 September 2012MFGreece Giorgos KaragounisFree AgentFree[6]

   

spending a total of £8million, yet no relegation

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Using a little bit of research online, it is quite apparent THE CHIEF SCOUT does not buy players. He/She recommends them. It is the decision of the board and manager to invest.

   

Yet again to prove a point

18 August 2010FWBelgium Mousa DembéléNetherlands AZ£5,000,000
 sold to spurs for £15mil

24 June 2008DFEngland Chris SmallingMaidstoneFree
 sold to man utd for massive profit

   

Why not give him some time before passing "judgement" on him

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Your logic is flawed

 

Most of Fulhams signings are players at the end of there careers on high wages hence the low fees

 

Most of our signings were much younger players with the majority worth as much or more than we paid for them

 

Hence the difference

 

Waving pound notes in front of players faces enables you to attract quality players in the twilight of there career. It has caught up with Fulham, hence the relagation and the fact that they released 11 players in June while we only let 2 go

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What point are you actually trying to make?

That some transfers work and some don''t?

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