Which squad is better - this year's, or the 2010/11 squad?

[MancCanary 0]

I.e. this year''s championship squad (as it stands) or the squad from the championship season we were promoted?

On paper, you''d have to say this year''s. But it just goes to show how much of success in football is down to belief/confidence and good tactics/organisation. As we proved in that season, and indeed the first premiership season, you can do well with inferior players if your players are busting a gut to do well.

And as we proved last year, you can have great players on paper.. but!

So I don''t think we need to stress out too much about signing Rhodes, McCormack or anyone - we just have to hope Adams & co get whoever is here into shape, full of confidence and playing without fear. Blackburn paid £8m for Rhodes with the hope he would take them straight back up - but the rest of the team wasn''t up to it, so all he has done has kept them up.

I would prefer we have a team of no-names like Grabban etc, that all have something to prove, than one or 2 £10m players.

Thoughts?

[CanaryOne 0]

I would rather have class players than cheap options that may not ever prove themselves , Grabban is a prime example of a poor player with one good season last year ,so is he any good or a one season wonder .Rhodes is already proven and would cost a lot more because of that. As for the 2010/11 squad they had Lambert to motivate them this seasons squad will have Adams who looks about as motivational as a wet weekend .

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 1,557]

This season''s squad is better, but I also think the Championship is considerably better than the 2010/11 one from which Norwich were promoted.

 

If Adams can just get the squad performing as well as the sum of its parts, then promotion should not be a problem - however, Hughton showed that getting the current squad to ''click'' is much easier said than done and I still think it lacks key players who can create chances.

[Tetteys Jig 830]

[quote user="CanaryOne"] this seasons squad will have Adams who looks about as motivational as a wet weekend .[/quote]

lets hope their into surfing then...

The quality on paper is there. It will take a couple of players to really grab this division by the scruff of the neck and make the difference and the rest to pull their weight and be good enough. Last time we had Holt, Ruddy and Hoolahan as the three who excelled more than any. This time i''m looking at Ruddy, Grabban and Fer as my three as it stands.

[Dubai Mark 0]

The challenge is similar and I dont see the league any stronger than the previous time we were in it, as it will always be a long hard season and there will always be teams who surprise and those that disappoint.

We dont know yet what the finished squad would look like...or even exactly what standard our two new signings to date are at....lets see them play in the yellow and green first......Grabban in particular I feel will surprise a few people. If we keep Fer, and thats a big "IF", then add the rest of the midfield choice we have who knows what will happen......BUT...we must all be patient.......its a league where you can lose a dozen matches and still end up in the EPL!!

[ZLF 271]

Its a tough one and an answer towards the end of Aug once the player movement is done may be the only time for an answer.   Currently

 

Keeper - no change

Full backs - Better - due to olsson

Centre back - mmm,   Assuming seb has gone,  I would say the 11 team was a better champs unit,  experienced and firm,  Turners partner will be the weak link - seb and turner and its a middle thats as safe as houses.

Midfield - wes and surman still here,  but 3 years older.  Little in it,  but probably go for 2011 as being a bit more creative.

Strikers - unknown,  can I see this squads strikers scoring 50+ goals?   Close again  

 

[chicken 0]

Funny thing is, back then I doubt many would have said we would have a strong enough squad for automatic promotion.Centre backs wise, I''d argue that even if Seb goes, Turner and Ryan Bennett would be better than Ward, Whitbread, Barnett.The clear obvious thing is though, we still don''t know what our squad will look like yet. Some players may well depart and we may well get new ones in as cover. The youngsters in the squad may well make the step up and prove they are just as good as any other player we have.We are measuring the unknown against the known. Much like last season, when on paper we had arguably the best squad the club had assembled since the early 1990''s.People writing of Grabban as being cheap and rubbish after only one good season need to look into him a bit more. He has been performing well at League 1 level for some time before stepping up to the Championship two seasons ago aged 24. He''s scored 35 goals in two seasons - and that''s not bad for a player that plays on the wing as well as a striker.Cheap option - maybe. Clever option? I''d say so. Looking at what he cost compared to McCormac who has a similar type of record - I think we did a good little bit of business there.Sadly it just highlights peoples lack of knowledge of players and that the ''big names'' are the ones that they know the most about.

[city4eva 207]

we dont know what the squad will look like come the end of Aug

[Chemical Bro 0]

On paper the current squad is a lot stronger. The squad is full of players who have excelled at this level before. Obviously we''re all hoping they do so again.

The previous squad had terrific momentum which played a huge part in getting promotion. And a terrific manager of course

[Guest]

What the hell is all this talk of cheap?

Do people really think that the prime motivation to the managerial appointments and subsequent dealings by said management team is money?

If people think the measure of a player is his transfer value then just stick to Championship Manager and save yourselves some money also.

Neil Adams will be bringing in the players he wants, obviously within certain parameters so he doesn''t upset the rest of the squad.

He wants to win the league next season. Correction, he would love to walk the league next season and he will not have value as the only criteria for his dealings.

And to answer the question, only if we win the title would this squad be better than 10/11.

[Highland Canary 76]

You would have to take a holistic view to include the respective management teams in arriving at such a judgment.

[MancCanary 0]

[quote user="city4eva"]we dont know what the squad will look like come the end of Aug[/quote]

That''s why I wrote "(as it stands)" - or did you not read the post?

[city4eva 207]

[quote user="MancCanary"][quote user="city4eva"]we dont know what the squad will look like come the end of Aug[/quote]

That''s why I wrote "(as it stands)" - or did you not read the post?[/quote]Yes I read the post. and thought it pointless debating wether the squad is better now than then as we dont know what the squad is/will be, no one has seen the squad as it is now, play together

[Cantiaci Canary 556]

This set of individuals are better but a Paul Lambert NCFC side could beat anyone.

[lharman7 39]

On paper i would say this seasons squad (as it stands).

Looking forward to seeing how Adams sets the team up and to see if he can get them playing with confidence and a ''no fear'' factor.

[It's Character Forming 1,160]

[quote user="Cantiaci Canary"]This set of individuals are better but a Paul Lambert NCFC side could beat anyone.[/quote]

 

Brazil, for example.

[MancCanary 0]

[quote user="city4eva"][quote user="MancCanary"][quote user="city4eva"]we dont know what the squad will look like come the end of Aug[/quote]

That''s why I wrote "(as it stands)" - or did you not read the post?[/quote]Yes I read the post. and thought it pointless debating wether the squad is better now than then as we dont know what the squad is/will be, no one has seen the squad as it is now, play together

[/quote]

You can debate about anything you like you know? People have plenty of opinions on here about the team''s prospects before they''ve even kicked a ball.

However, the point of my post wasn''t to spark debate about this current squad - it was to illustrate the point that we don''t necessarily need big names and big money signings - as the last time we got promoted from this league we had a team of cheap signings and journeymen.

My point was basically - let''s not worry about the signings - let''s worry about the coaching, the playing style, the work rate, the team ethic and the confidence of the players. Because that''s what gets a team promoted - not an £11m striker on his own.

[BroadstairsR 2,138]

"My point was basically - let''s not worry about the signings - let''s worry about the coaching, the playing style, the work rate, the team ethic and the confidence of the players. Because that''s what gets a team promoted - not an £11m striker on his own."

 

That''s precisely my thinking Manc, but at the same time I admire Fulham''s show of intent in as much as that they are going all-out for a quick return rather than risk becoming part of the Championship scene.

 

This is a Premier League style signing from a Club clearly unwilling to shake off their top-flight heritage without a fight.

 

Of course the player is 0ver-priced, but as the Championship top scorer from last season there is every chance that he will be a success at the Cottage and therefore a major assist in the club achieving it''s immediate aim. It will then be money well spent, although all signings are a risk.

 

This is all why I fancy Fulham for promotion next season.

 

As for NCFC. We have not done so bad as yet having spent a decent wad and quite astutely too IMO. We now hope for a couple more at least but, as somebody has pointed out elsewhere, our hands are somewhat tied until we know which players will be lured away.

 

I feel that if we can keep our squad intact as much as is viable then we can also make a success of the season to come. The proviso is, of course, that Adams is able to step up to the mark in senior management by way of all the aspects you mention. If he has to start with over-many newbies, if he has to assemble  newish team, then I feel his job will be harder. We started last season with half a dozen new boys and it showed and neither can we be sure that NA has thus far formulated his needs due to the brevity of his experience.  

 

Others would prefer a mini-clear-out, I  would have more confidence with a stable squad. We have some excellent players now which I feel outstrip the class of 2010/11 in almost every single aspect. It is now down to management, but, whilst we no longer need a Messiah as we did in those heady days, Adams will need to keep his wits about him.    

 

[lharman7 39]

"My point was basically - let''s not worry about the signings - let''s worry about the coaching, the playing style, the work rate, the team ethic and the confidence of the players. Because that''s what gets a team promoted - not an £11m striker on his own."

That''s precisely my thinking Manc, but at the same time I admire Fulham''s show of intent in as much as that they are going all-out for a quick return rather than risk becoming part of the Championship scene.

This is a Premier League style signing from a Club clearly unwilling to shake off their top-flight heritage without a fight.

Of course the player is 0ver-priced, but as the Championship top scorer from last season there is every chance that he will be a success at the Cottage and therefore a major assist in the club achieving it''s immediate aim. It will then be money well spent, although all signings are a risk.

This is all why I fancy Fulham for promotion next season.

As for NCFC. We have not done so bad as yet having spent a decent wad and quite astutely too IMO. We now hope for a couple more at least but, as somebody has pointed out elsewhere, our hands are somewhat tied until we know which players will be lured away.

I feel that if we can keep our squad intact as much as is viable then we can also make a success of the season to come. The proviso is, of course, that Adams is able to step up to the mark in senior management by way of all the aspects you mention. If he has to start with over-many newbies, if he has to assemble newish team, then I feel his job will be harder. We started last season with half a dozen new boys and it showed and neither can we be sure that NA has thus far formulated his needs due to the brevity of his experience.

Others would prefer a mini-clear-out, I would have more confidence with a stable squad. We have some excellent players now which I feel outstrip the class of 2010/11 in almost every single aspect. It is now down to management, but, whilst we no longer need a Messiah as we did in those heady days, Adams will need to keep his wits about him.

Great post BroadstairsR.

As it stands i don''t think we need any more players in. Unless of course any players leave.

[lake district canary 4,531]

The 2011 at the moment has the accolade of achieving promotion therefore they have a head start.  Player for player?   Ruddy -  Ruddy    -   equalMartin -  errr...Martin  -  equalWhittaker - Naughton   -  NaughtonTurner - Ward -  TurnerBennett - Barnett -  equalBassong - Whitbread -   Whitbread (on Bassong''s last season performance)Wes -  err...Wes    - equalRVW - Holt   ------- HoltGrabban - Martin   -  equalLafferty - Jackson -  unknownFer -  Fox ----------FerHowson - Crofts - equalPilkington - Pilkiington - equalOlsson - Lappin   - OlssonJohnson - Lansbury - Lansbury

Not the whole squad, I grant you and arbitary comparisons, but a fairly even mix across the squads if you ask me.

The proof of how good this squad will be is at the end of this season. They have something to live up to, going by that last season in the championship.

[lake district canary 4,531]

Oops. Put Pilkington in there as being there in 2010-11. My bad.

[MancCanary 0]

Broadstairs - yeah I agree with all of that.

But..

Whilst it can be seen as a statement of intent throwing money around in pre-season, it can also be stupid. I think £11m on McCormack is reckless, in true Fulham style. When you can get Loic Remy for like £8m, it really puts it in perspective!

It can also make you more likely to be consigned to the championship for longer - look at Blackburn.

And as QPR found out in their short Premiership stay - all the money in the world doesn''t buy success.

Football is littered with examples of this.

[chicken 0]

Some of that is pretty shocking LDC!Bassong - Whitbread  - Bassong by a country mile. No matter what happened last season Bassong is more mobile and far less injury prone. It''s also worth noting that two managers failed to believe that Whitbread was good enough for the premier league.Grabban - Martin   -  equalLafferty - Jackson -  unknownI think you have these the wrong way around: Grabban - Jackson - Grabban going on last seasons performances and we could only have dreamed of Jackson scoring that many for us in the Championship.Lafferty - Martin (both target men see) - Martin at this point in time as I think he has more strings to his bow. Will be pleasantly surprised if I am wrong though.

Howson - Crofts - equalOlsson - Lappin   - OlssonJohnson - Lansbury - LansburyI think you have these messed up a bit. Again, you are comparing Lansbury who was often deployed as an advanced AM to Johnson who is often played as a deep DFM. And you do the same with Crofts and Howson.Howson - Lansbury - Howson marginally for having played two and half seasons in the premier league.Tettey - Crofts - Tettey, although both are far more defensive than technically great players going forwards.Johnson - ?Lappin was really a left midfielder converted to a left full back due to lack of numbers.Garrido - Drury - Garrido, as much as I love Adam Drury I think we had seen his best.Tierney - Olsson - Olsson.In fact, I shall do a more accurate like for like . . . .

[BroadstairsR 2,138]

"It can also make you more likely to be consigned to the championship for longer - look at Blackburn."

 

Quite, but I''ve a ''hit or bust'' mentality in these situations. Has Adams though or is he a it of a Cautious Chris? I refer back to his tactics at Stamford Bridge at the end of the last season when staring relegation in the face he stared expressionless and motionless apparently settling for a draw.

 

I also think that the Blackburn situation was made unique by the peculiarities of the ownership there and that the goalposts have been somewhat moved since then in any case by dint of the great increase in the parachute payments and the restrictions imposed by the FFP rulings on many of the clubs in the division.

 

Oh, and Manc., unlike us, QPR will be at Old Trafford next season.  

[lharman7 39]

Some of that is pretty shocking LDC!

Bassong - Whitbread - Bassong by a country mile. No matter what happened last season Bassong is more mobile and far less injury prone. It''s also worth noting that two managers failed to believe that Whitbread was good enough for the premier league.

Grabban - Martin - equal

Lafferty - Jackson - unknown

I think you have these the wrong way around:

Grabban - Jackson - Grabban going on last seasons performances and we could only have dreamed of Jackson scoring that many for us in the Championship.

Lafferty - Martin (both target men see) - Martin at this point in time as I think he has more strings to his bow. Will be pleasantly surprised if I am wrong though.

Howson - Crofts - equal

Olsson - Lappin - Olsson

Johnson - Lansbury - Lansbury

I think you have these messed up a bit. Again, you are comparing Lansbury who was often deployed as an advanced AM to Johnson who is often played as a deep DFM. And you do the same with Crofts and Howson.

Howson - Lansbury - Howson marginally for having played two and half seasons in the premier league.

Tettey - Crofts - Tettey, although both are far more defensive than technically great players going forwards.

Johnson - ?

Lappin was really a left midfielder converted to a left full back due to lack of numbers.

Garrido - Drury - Garrido, as much as I love Adam Drury I think we had seen his best.

Tierney - Olsson - Olsson.

In fact, I shall do a more accurate like for like . . . .

Very much this LDC!

Good reply chicken

[KeiranShikari_2 0]

Ruddy/Rudd/Steer vs Ruddy/Rudd/Bunn - Both pretty great but I do feel safer with the more experienced backup.Tierney/aging Drury vs Olsson/Garrido - Much better now.Martin vs Marin/Whittaker - Can''t remember who we had in backup for martin back then but at Championship level Whitts and Martin will be good.Barnett/Whitbread/Ward/Askou vs Turner/Bennett/Bassong - Again far better now. Seb, whilst not captain material has been scapegoated this season. Seb will probably go so this is a position I sure hope we''re focusing on now.Crofts/Fox/Surman/Lansbury/Smith/Wes vs Tettey/BJ/Howson/Fer/Surman/Wes - Player for player today''s, could only imagine what our current crop would have been like under Lambert.King of Spain/McNamee vs Pilks/Redmond/Bennett/Murphy/Murphy - no contestHolt/Jackson/Martin/Johnson vs RvW/Grabban/Lafferty/Hooper/Loza/Becchio - Holt in the form he was in back then vs the potential of what we have now. I''ll be positive and say what we have now.Squad will probably change a fair bit over the next month but on paper we should have a stronger squad.

[lake district canary 4,531]

[quote user="chicken"]Some of that is pretty shocking LDC!Bassong - Whitbread  - Bassong by a country mile. No matter what happened last season Bassong is more mobile and far less injury prone. It''s also worth noting that two managers failed to believe that Whitbread was good enough for the premier league.Grabban - Martin   -  equalLafferty - Jackson -  unknownI think you have these the wrong way around: Grabban - Jackson - Grabban going on last seasons performances and we could only have dreamed of Jackson scoring that many for us in the Championship.Lafferty - Martin (both target men see) - Martin at this point in time as I think he has more strings to his bow. Will be pleasantly surprised if I am wrong though.Howson - Crofts - equalOlsson - Lappin   - OlssonJohnson - Lansbury - LansburyI think you have these messed up a bit. Again, you are comparing Lansbury who was often deployed as an advanced AM to Johnson who is often played as a deep DFM. And you do the same with Crofts and Howson.Howson - Lansbury - Howson marginally for having played two and half seasons in the premier league.Tettey - Crofts - Tettey, although both are far more defensive than technically great players going forwards.Johnson - ?Lappin was really a left midfielder converted to a left full back due to lack of numbers.Garrido - Drury - Garrido, as much as I love Adam Drury I think we had seen his best.Tierney - Olsson - Olsson.In fact, I shall do a more accurate like for like . . . .[/quote]

Yeah, I did it in a bit of a rush, but it is an interesting exercise.  Over the whole squad we may be slightly stronger now - in potential, if nothing else...but you can''t knock success - and the 2010-11 squad was a success.   My only quibble with what you said was Jackson and Grabban - Jackson found his form and scored the all important goals near the end of the season. That alone gives him the nod over Grabban, for me - until Grabban does the same! 

[Yelloow Since 72 54]

The comparisons are interesting, but it''s really also about the depth we now have at each position, as KS highlights.

GK Ruddy/Bunn/Rudd - Ruddy/Rudd More experience and depth now

FB More skill, experience and depth now (another RB to come in?)

CB More skill, experience and depth now

CM More skill, experience and depth now

WR More skill, pace, experience and depth now

WL More skill, pace, experience and depth now

ACM More skill, pace, experience and depth now

CF More skill, pace, experience and depth now, but the ''Holt factor'' as motivator will be missed

Without doubt, IMO, the squad is more skillful and experienced now, with much greater depth and pace (the motivation factor needs building though).

The final factor is who will stay and who else will come in, but this should still be a very good squad.

[chicken 0]

First off, it''s the title winning team of 2010-2011 so no Naughton as he was a loan signing for the first Season in the premier league!1)John Ruddy - same, no change in personel.2)Russell Martin - same, no change in personel.3)Adam Drury V Garrido = Garrido4)Matthew Gill V Johnson = Johnson5)Zak Whitbread V Turner = Turner6)Crofts Vs Tettey = score draw7)Stephen Hughes V Josh Muphey = Josh Murphey.8)Grant Holt V RVW = the Grant holt back then.9)Simeon Jackson V Hooper = Hooper10)Andrew Surman - same, no change in personel.11)Henri Lansbury (on loan from Arsenal) V Howson = Howson, Lansbury did well in a short stint. I''d have him back now but back then he had little experience Vs Howsons two and a hald years in the top flight.12)Declan Rudd - same, no change in personel.13)Wes Hoolahan - same, no change in personel.14)David Fox V Fer = Fer15)Chris Martin V Lafferty = hard to say as he didn''t have a great season due to injury that year. Easy to say Martin after last season though.16)Korey Smith V E. Bennett = E.Bennett.17)Simon Lappin V Pilkington = Pilkington.18)Leon Barnett V R.Bennett = goaless draw.19)Aaron Wilbraham V Becchio = Becchio20)Elliott Ward V Bassong = Bassong.21)Oli Johnson V Grabban = Grabban.22)Anthony McNamee V Redmond = Redmond23)Jed Steer V Bunn = Bunn24)Marc Tierney V Olsson = Olsson25)Jens Berthel Askou V ?26)Daniel Pacheco (on loan from Liverpool) V ? (Loza maybe?)27)Michael Nelson V ?I had to make a couple of slightly forced comparisons in there as I was running out of players! Bennett Vs K.Smith for example, where Smith was primarily a midfielder who was used on the right where Bennett is clearly a right midfielder. I also thought it harsh to compare the likes of Gafaiti to the likes of Nelson,  or Loza to Pacheco.But on paper, which at the end of the day means didderly squit once that white line is crossed, the squad we have right now far exceeds that of our promotion campaign. To a degree, even comparing that side to others that have been promoted out of the Championship since, makes you wonder what a great bunch of players we had to pull together in such a way. It also makes you realise that getting out of the Championship at that point was such an important thing as well when you consider the cash injection since.I''ve always said the worse part of relegation back in the ''90''s, was that we couldn''t have gone down at a worse time, just as the money was really starting to hit the premier league. Not only did we miss out on it, but teams being relegated after us were in a better financial position as a result.This time round we have come down and it is the other clubs in the league now looking at us in that way. Blackburn for example.It''ll be tough. And for me, it wasn''t just the players, it was the club, it was buzzing on match days, the fans were as much unstoppable as the players. And it gave them more energy etc.

[BroadstairsR 2,138]

I just do not see it as a ''like for like'' comparison, too many imponderables.

 

Suffice to say that, at their best, I would struggle to fit any of that squad into the one we have at present, with the obvious exception of Grant Holt.

 

Lansbury, at a push, but we don''t really need him nowadays. I wouldn''t want CM back either, although he clearly has matured at last.

 

I don''t even think that Hoolahan will have gone backwards, but more envisage a swansong of memorable proportions from the little maestro.

 

P.S. Did Lappin finally leave then?  ........................ Pity that. 

 

(We all loved Simon, but doesn''t his presence in that squad really emphasise the difference between then and now?)