3-4-3

[The Great Mass Debater 1,073]

One relief I have about the Netherlands not winning the World Cup is that it means we wont see a wave of three at the back as the new religion. There was a real risk after they beat Spain 5-1 that the previously incomprehensible 3 at the back system that Van Gaal invented would displace Tika Taka as the in thing, that only non-sophisticates didnt play. I am so relieved that we dont have to watch England attempt to play it.

That said though the more I thought about a variation of this, the more I liked it. Any team playing 3-4-3 in the Premier League would be killed, and trying to play 3 at the back is what ultimately did for Mancini at Man City. But, at Championship level, it could possibly suit us. You have to have the right players, but I feel we do. Its all about the wingbacks, as the Netherlands have demonstrated. The wingbacks have to be up to the job, capable of being the fullback when theyre supposed to and not leaving the defence exposed, and capable of being the winger to provide the width and support when required. Such a player needs to be quick, full of stamina and have excellent decision making and be solid defensively and offensively.

We have two excellent players for this role - Marcus Olsson and Elliot Bennett. No other players in our squad could fulfil this role in my opinion.

Bassong is a natural left sided CB, Martin his equivalent on the right. Turner is well suited to the central stopper role.

This kind of system means you can play a central striker without the need for a link man or number 10 (which has been our achilles heel for years). You can play a standard central two and then have a forward/winger either side of the central striker. Central striker is not a lone strker as he is supported by the two flanking players - but neither are charged with being wingers or forwards, meaning the team does not depend on them for either - a free role for both if you will.

Most teams play with a single striker these days. Traditionally three at the back was difficult for defenders because theyd be up against two strikers, who would pull them all over the place and it would be confusing from a marking point of view as to who should be picking up who. But now most teams play with one forward, so this shouldnt be such an issue. The more I think about this formation, the more I like it and feel such a system would suit our players far better than the formations we desperately tried to find last season

----------------------------Ruddy

-----------------Martin Turner Bassong

E Bennett------------------------------------Olsson

------------------Fer/Howson BJ/Tettey

-----Redmond/Jacob/Rvw------Pilks/Josh/Hooper

----------------------------Lafferty

[The Great Mass Debater 1,073]

MARTIN Olsson!!

[Guest]

Under Mike Walker, we did often play three CB''s with Culverhouse sweeping. England did it eventually in the 1990 WC (no, not Culverhouse).

You do have to have the right personnel of course. And the right manager. Hughton seemed so rigid and even his substitutions were like for like half the time.

Adams does appear to be a thinker and prepared to alter his tactics. I understand yesterdays match was diamond and switched to 4-4-2. I like that in a manager.

[The Great Mass Debater 1,073]

Was one of the things the commentators said last night of Van Gaal and that Man Utd fans will be happy as this was something they didnt see enough of last season.

Personally, I think tactics are under-used in the English game. Very few times do you watch a game and think that the team that won did so because of tactical genius on the part of the managers. I think its deeply engrained in English sport - put your head down in bulldog spirit and plough into the opposition regardless and ignorant. Think we are rather meat-headed in that respect. Our footballers often seem far less intelligent than those of other nations and do not seem very adaptable, probably why so few play abroad. Our player seem to have very rigid ideas about who they are and what they are - perhaps due to the way they are developed here? Other countries train players in multiple positions to inform their development. That doesnt seem to happen here

[chrisr1606 4]

I wouldn''t say that anyone playing it in the Premiership would get beaten.  Didn''t Liverpool play a 3-4-3 at times last season?  I thought they did to accomodate Suarez when he came back from his suspension.  Wigan played it as well under Matrtinez when they went on that run towards the end of the season that they stayed up.  All depends on your players and the tactics you use within the system.

[Parma Ham's gone mouldy 2,219]

Oh TGMD, you are so right, but you don''t go far enough. Germany can be proud tonight regardless of the result. They have a system that prizes intelligence, system and education over our pathetic need for working class heroes with god-given gifts. We wait for them to be born, while they make them.

Other countries recognise the value of tactics, structure, patterns of play and fluidity because the players and managers that they have are from all strata of society. I am afraid our most intelligent sportsmen play other sports, where a pathway exist from higher education. We have a working class structure, inordinate amounts of money and a commensurate unwillingness (and subsequently structural ability) to open the playing field. This is to the great detriment of our football and leaves us 50 years behind. Tactics do matter. Education does matter. Brighter people make better decisions more often. Streetwise urchins make wonderful Disney stories, but German education and coaching structures creates footballers, it doesn''t wait for them to be born.

[Guest]

It also helps that youngsters are encouraged to play but play properly.

Our youngsters from 11-15 just want to go out and win big and be the superstars. Nobody can tell them anything and they just automatically try and copy the most famous name they have heard or who has the most value on Xbox.

Two of my grandsons, 13 and 14, went football training at the local leisure centre on Saturday mornings and the coaches put mats out so they could practice overhead kicks. Then stood drinking coffee when the kids played a game and just congratulated the greedy kid who beat everyone to score.

Until it is ingrained into our kids that learning and practising and not winning are the important things before they reach adulthood, we will struggle as a nation.

[Mr D 0]

tl:dr since when did Van Gaal invent 3 at the back?

[lake district canary 4,530]

Very little difference between 343 and 442 and has been said many times there can be very little difference between 442 and 451. In our case 343 could look like -     Martin Turner BennettBennett Fer Howson Olsson  Lafferty Grabban Redmond.  Very little adjustment is needed to make that 442Martin Turner Bennett Olsson Bennett Fer Howson Redmond     Lafferty GrabbanSame players, just a slight adjustment - could happen automatically in games and probably does, without labels needing to be put to it, with players dropping back to cover etc etc.  

[The Great Mass Debater 1,073]

[quote user="Mr D"]tl:dr since when did Van Gaal invent 3 at the back?[/quote]

Perhaps sarcasm doesnt work in the written form... Have to admit to having been inspired by Martin O''Neill''s curmudgeonly verdict on Van Gaal''s labelling as a genius. Tried to find the youtube clip but couldnt...

[Mr D 0]

I know the clip you mean - sarcasm on forums hard to judge