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Southampton and the price of 'success'

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I suspect what Southampton achieved last season is as much as we could ever hope to achieve in the Premier League these days and their side has been taken apart systematically by the big clubs as a result.Makes you wonder if Premier League success is worth having.They have now lost:ShawLovrenLambertLlallanaChambersand with Schneiderlin rumoured to be next and Rodriguez also linked with Spurs.

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[quote user="whoareyou"]I suspect what Southampton achieved last season is as much as we could ever hope to achieve in the Premier League these days and their side has been taken apart systematically by the big clubs as a result.

Makes you wonder if Premier League success is worth having.

They have now lost:
Shaw
Lovren
Lambert
Llallana
Chambers
and with Schneiderlin rumoured to be next and Rodriguez also linked with Spurs.
[/quote]

 

Jeez, those are massive losses for them.

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It''s sad how the thats the best a team like us could ever achieve. And Southampton didn''t even have a decent cup run, and weren''t close to a place in Europe.

So what do they have to show for their ''successful'' season? Losing a great manager, and losing all their best players.

I''d much rather have a good season in the championship, winning more often than not, than Southampton''s season of ''success''.

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I wouldnt feel too sorry for them....theyve convinced a lot of clubs (mainly Liverpool) to part with a hell of a lot of cash for some players who''ve had one decent season in the Premiership. I''m not saying theyre over rated (time will tell), but most of them are certainly overpriced, there''s no way Southampton could say theyve under sold anyone - except maybe Lambert.

£16m for Chambers is absolutely crazy.

The key now is for Koeman to use all his continental contacts in getting players in to build a better side. The money theyve raked in for that list of players should buy a hell of a lot of talent in the continental market which is not so awash with money.

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[quote user="GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary"]I wouldnt feel too sorry for them....theyve convinced a lot of clubs (mainly Liverpool) to part with a hell of a lot of cash for some players who''ve had one decent season in the Premiership. I''m not saying theyre over rated (time will tell), but most of them are certainly overpriced, there''s no way Southampton could say theyve under sold anyone - except maybe Lambert.

£16m for Chambers is absolutely crazy.

The key now is for Koeman to use all his continental contacts in getting players in to build a better side. The money theyve raked in for that list of players should buy a hell of a lot of talent in the continental market which is not so awash with money.[/quote]I don''t think they will ever have a better side than they did last season, money to spend or not.

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While i agree Southampton have got good money for the players they''ve sold. They are taking a huge gamble letting so many go at the same time, the team will be totally different next season, basically starting at the beginning again with team building and manager, the premier league will be a tough place to get that all right. could end up costing them 100m if they get relegated, then those sales are not going to look as good value.

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As they were singing to us at the end of last season

"We are of to Brazil, are off to Brazil....."

Well I hope they enjoyed it and have come back to this, lucky old them.

"Viva the Chumpionship"

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Koeman needs to get his signings right. All that money and they are bidding £3.5m for Forster & thinking £6.5m is enough for Redmond, good luck. All well and good having plenty of money to spend but when people know you have money to spend, prices get massively inflated.

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They didn''t have to sell those players, they chose to, and have given every indication that they were open for business.

They decided to cash in whilst those players stock was high. As soon as a couple leave you start an exodus, those players are ambitious and don''t want to be at a selling club.

I''ve got money on Southampton going down this season, 8/1, their squad currently looks very poor and even if they spend big now they risk the squad not integrating.

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They even talking of Cardiff bidding big for Fonte and not giving up, and Osvaldo going back to Italy which wont be a big loss but there squad is slowly diminishing. Theres either a grand master plan or its all going to go tits up. If someone is going to bid £25m for a player like Lallana or Shaw, you cant really turn it down especially when its teams like Liverpool, Arsenal, Man U etc because turning down moves to teams like that is when players start demanding transfers.

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I''ve been to the last couple of Southampton friendlies due to work. Despite losing some great players, they have some more excellent youth players coming through - James Ward-Prowse especially looks like an incredible talent. Taggert, the young left back replacing Shaw, looks just as good as his predecessor and I was impressed with Isgrove last night.

I having a feeling that there will be a couple more young Southampton players knocking on the door for international appearances by the end of the season.

I don''t know what they are doing in their academy, but you have to take your hats off to them.

I think you will comfortably lose your bet I''m afraid GrantsMoustache.

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[URL=http://s869.photobucket.com/user/mortymccarthy/media/Untitled_zps0026c6c2.jpg.html][IMG]http://i869.photobucket.com/albums/ab257/mortymccarthy/Untitled_zps0026c6c2.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

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[quote user="GrantsMoustache"]They didn''t have to sell those players, they chose to, and have given every indication that they were open for business.

They decided to cash in whilst those players stock was high. As soon as a couple leave you start an exodus, those players are ambitious and don''t want to be at a selling club.

I''ve got money on Southampton going down this season, 8/1, their squad currently looks very poor and even if they spend big now they risk the squad not integrating.[/quote]That is absolute nonsense from first to last.Have you a clue how contracts/transfers work beyond regurgitating some vacuous cliches ?EVERY club is a selling club and EVERY club is ''open for business''.No player of any worth is going to join a club where they can block any transfer if they so wish, irrespective of the wages and fee on offer.You talk of players being ambitious yet tell us that that should be ambition limited to staying at a ''lower'' club ...... because the other players have stayed there as well ! ! !ye gods !Players will want to push themselves as far as they can in terms of on field success and off field earnings - that is why footall is always in a constant state of movement ... from the clubs at the top of the Champions League pile to those in the Anglian Combination.It happens in virtually every professional team sport throught the world - yet here you are bleating that somehow it is ''wrong''.dearie, dear me

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Barring Real Madrid & Barcelona i think every other club in the world is a selling club. I think the top players of them wouldnt move to anyone else. Even massive teams like Man Utd & B.Munich lose players to those 2.

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I don''t think that was the point being made at all . . . I interpreted it as suggesting that Southampton were almost actively selling their players, or acting in a way that would invite bids/offers for their players.You could argue that every club does that to a degree - just not to that degree. Cashing in on Lambert whilst he still has value is probably not the worse idea. But selling a good 5+ of their starting line up is more than a little risky. It''s nigh on thoughtless unless they have a number of good signings coming through.Just to highlight where they are at - and worth noting that at least 4-5 of those players have also been linked with moves away:

1 England GK Kelvin Davis (club captain)
2 England DF Nathaniel Clyne
3 Japan DF Maya Yoshida
4 France MF Morgan Schneiderlin
6 Portugal DF José Fonte
8 Northern Ireland MF Steven Davis
9 England FW Jay Rodriguez
10 Uruguay MF Gastón Ramírez
12 Kenya MF Victor Wanyama
16 England MF James Ward-Prowse
17 Italy FW Dani Osvaldo

18 England MF Jack Cork
22 England DF Calum Chambers
24 Zambia FW Emmanuel Mayuka
25 Argentina GK Paulo Gazzaniga
26 Netherlands DF Jos Hooiveld
31 Poland GK Artur Boruc
38 England MF Harrison Reed
40 England FW Sam Gallagher
Serbia MF Dušan Tadić
Italy FW Graziano Pellè
England FW Billy Sharp

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[quote user="chicken"]I don''t think that was the point being made at all . . . I interpreted it as suggesting that Southampton were almost actively selling their players, or acting in a way that would invite bids/offers for their players.You could argue that every club does that to a degree - just not to that degree. Cashing in on Lambert whilst he still has value is probably not the worse idea. But selling a good 5+ of their starting line up is more than a little risky. It''s nigh on thoughtless unless they have a number of good signings coming through.Just to highlight where they are at - and worth noting that at least 4-5 of those players have also been linked with moves away:

1 England GK Kelvin Davis (club captain)
2 England DF Nathaniel Clyne
3 Japan DF Maya Yoshida
4 France MF Morgan Schneiderlin
6 Portugal DF José Fonte
8 Northern Ireland MF Steven Davis
9 England FW Jay Rodriguez
10 Uruguay MF Gastón Ramírez
12 Kenya MF Victor Wanyama
16 England MF James Ward-Prowse
17 Italy FW Dani Osvaldo

18 England MF Jack Cork
22 England DF Calum Chambers
24 Zambia FW Emmanuel Mayuka
25 Argentina GK Paulo Gazzaniga
26 Netherlands DF Jos Hooiveld
31 Poland GK Artur Boruc
38 England MF Harrison Reed
40 England FW Sam Gallagher
Serbia MF Dušan Tadić
Italy FW Graziano Pellè
England FW Billy Sharp
[/quote]Didn''t a previous chairman of ours do similar lol[;)]

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"Barring Real Madrid & Barcelona i think every other club in the world is a selling club. I think the top players of them wouldnt move to anyone else. Even massive teams like Man Utd & B.Munich lose players to those 2"

I think football clubs just go in cycles. From 2003-2008 many players wanted to play for Man United, Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal and all those clubs dominated in Europe. Since then the Spanish teams have been able to offer ridiculous wages and attract top talent. But that will change. Not many teams will be able to offer the sort of wages Manchester United can and all the best players will want to go there.

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What a complete muppet you are City1st.

Anybody but the most clueless of idiots, such as yourself, can see that Southampton are completing ripping out the nucleus of their squad.

Shaw, Lallana, Lambert, Lovren already gone.

Chambers, Schneiderlin, and Clyne likely to leave yet.

They will be losing 6 or 7 of their 8 or 9 key players from last season.

Apparently I don''t know how football works, I can''t remember a single other time that a Premier League club has done that after staying up.

As Morty pointed out, Robert Chase between 1994 and 1995 may be the only similar example.

Preaching that others don''t understand football is inadvisable when you are obviously utterly clueless yourself.

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I think you will find my northern england reference was in reply to the everyone wanting to join Man United point because of the wages then can offer. I was saying top players would go to Madrid or Barcelona over northern England. Come on dont try and be a smart arse.

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It''s public knowledge that Soton recent success was driven by a wealthy benefactor. The benefactor died and his daughter is not interested in football and continuing to subsidise the club hence no surprise they are losing manager and players.

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I would say players would choose Man United over Barcelona or Madrid if the wages were right and if they thought they could win top tournaments.

Don''t forget that players have a relatively short career, and if they earn top dollar they can go and live wherever they choose by their early to mid thirties.

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Just scratching a little bit bellow the surface:Kelvin Davis (club captain) - Age 37, 14 appearances in last two seasons.Nathaniel Clyne - Age 23, 61 appearances in last two seasons.Maya Yoshida - Age 25, appearances last season - 13, 32 season before.José Fonte - Age 30, 48 appearances in last two seasons.Steven Davis - Age 29, 71 appearances in last two seasons.Gastón Ramírez - Age 23, 48 appearances in last two seasons.Victor Wanyama - Age 23, 24 appearances last season.James Ward-Prowse - Age 19, 58 appearances in last two seasons.Jack Cork - Age 25, 63 appearances in last two seasons.Emmanuel Mayuka - Age 23, has only made 11appearances since signing for Southampton in 2012.Paulo Gazzaniga - Age 22, only made 17 appearances since signing in 2012.Jos Hooiveld - Age 31, 8 appearances last season (according to soccerbase.com), 28 season before.Artur Boruc - Age 34, 50 appearances in last two seasons.Harrison Reed - Age 19, 4 appearances at senior level in his career.Sam Gallagher - Age 18, 18 senior appearances in his career to date.Dušan Tadić - new signing this summer, age 25.Graziano Pellè - new signing this summer, age 29.Billy Sharp (rumoured interest from Championship clubs - sent out on loan last season)Calum Chambers (Off to Arsenal)Dani Osvaldo (return to Italy)Jay Rodriguez (heavily linked to Spurs)Morgan Schneiderlin (linked with Arsenal and one or two others)Going purely on the players that we know will most likely be there from what they have at the moment means 17 players. Of those only 9 are aged 25 or older. 3 of the squad are goalkeepers, two of which form part of that 9. That means 14 outfield players currently at the club. A lot of work needs doing to that squad. The new manager is clearly trying to bring in players with some experience. Even more so when you look at the fact that three of those 14 outfield players have less than 20 senior appearances for Southampton, one 23, one 19 and one 18 years of age.In other words, you can just about name an experienced 11 players to start a game . . . with a keeper and an outfield player to spare on the bench. This only three weeks away from the start of the Premier League.I think you may forgive some Southampton fans for being at least a little bit fearful.And yes, that is exactly where football is now. The best any non top 6/7 team (Arsenal, Chelsea, Man Utd, Man City, Liverpool, Spurs/Everton) can hope for is 8th or 9th - and if they manage to pull that off, they can look forward to the reward of having  your manager and best players pillaged.And yes, who can blame them for going where the best contract is or the best chance of winning something - they tend to be where the wealth and security of lucrative long term contracts are. Where the system is most broken, where clubs have the largest amounts of debt, rich owners etc.It''s why part of me detests the Premier League as much as loves it.

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[quote user="T"]It''s public knowledge that Soton recent success was driven by a wealthy benefactor. The benefactor died and his daughter is not interested in football and continuing to subsidise the club hence no surprise they are losing manager and players.[/quote]nobody on here is qualified to disagree with that [:D]

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The death knell for Southampton was Cortese leaving. That unsettled things with Pochettino, and Pochettino leaving left the squad rudderless and looking elsewhere. It''s a cautionary tale on putting too much store in someone (Pochettino in this case) who is ruthlessly ambitious for his own success without necessarily having any commitment to the club he''s at at the time. All of Southamptons fortunes rode on him staying, and he didn''t.It''s a big plus to Adams that he is sincerely committed to the club. As to how good he is, time will tell, but personally I''m cautiously encouraged by what''s been seen so far. A draw in a not-very-friendly friendly against a mid table league 1 side where we actually came back from behind is pretty encouraging stuff.

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On the way back to the station after our match there last season I got talking to a Saints fan who got a bit annoyed when I suggested that the problem with clubs of our size having very good seasons is that half your best players come to the attention of bigger outfits and end up having their heads turned by bigger outfits spurred on by greedy agents

 

He seemed to think that local lads like Shaw and Lallana wouldn''t dream of leaving. I said that in the real world the days of Matt le Tissier have long gone unfortunately.

 

I didn''t expect the exodus at St Mary''s to be quite so bad as it''s turned out and I''d have been pretty unhappy if Norwich had been in Saints position at the end of last term then  having to watch all their best talent hoovered up elsewhere.

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It''s a shame really because Southampton had built a squad which clearly contained some strong English talent who were playing week in week out.
Whilst they''ve all gone on to bigger clubs and credit to them for achieving them moves - if they don''t immediately make the step up these larger clubs won''t be so patient as to let their form rekindle.
Without seeming harsh, i couldn''t really give a rats arse what happens to Southampton''s squad now. They''ve got a lot of money in transfer fee''s and will probably look over the continent for players and it''s always a gamble what happens there.
The shame I think is the english talent separating and going to play at bigger clubs. Of course I could be wrong and they could all have awesome seasons and simply cement themselves as part of Englands future more so than staying at Saints.

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