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Gaz06

Joe Royle leaves club

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not fussed by his arrival or departure.  Unfortunate timing but cant see how either the club or royle can be criticised for this. 

 

But I do have a nagging doubt; Adams and the manager clearly thought that Royles counsel to adams was necessary through the coming season;     That is a concern in itself (who felt it was/is necessary and why),   but also suggests that a replacement is needed as its hard to see how that assessment can have changed without a ball being kicked in the interim?      As such a replacement consultant, mentor, counsellor may still be required.     

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[quote user="ZippersLeftFoot"]

not fussed by his arrival or departure.  Unfortunate timing but cant see how either the club or royle can be criticised for this. 

 

But I do have a nagging doubt; Adams and the manager clearly thought that Royles counsel to adams was necessary through the coming season;     That is a concern in itself (who felt it was/is necessary and why),   but also suggests that a replacement is needed as its hard to see how that assessment can have changed without a ball being kicked in the interim?      As such a replacement consultant, mentor, counsellor may still be required.     

[/quote]Or maybe Royle was only required to help with the set up of the new structure? His role was never really clearly defined.

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What do you mean, Royle only required to ''help with the set up of the new structure''? That doesn''t sound right to me.

You don''t employ someone on a relatively permanent basis if they''re only needed for a couple of weeks preseason!

I agree with ZLF that someone or maybe multiple people felt we needed someone like Joe Royle - which suggests we also need a replacement. And if we don''t need a replacement, what''s changed?

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[quote user="hogesar"]What do you mean, Royle only required to ''help with the set up of the new structure''? That doesn''t sound right to me.

You don''t employ someone on a relatively permanent basis if they''re only needed for a couple of weeks preseason!

I agree with ZLF that someone or maybe multiple people felt we needed someone like Joe Royle - which suggests we also need a replacement. And if we don''t need a replacement, what''s changed?[/quote]I think that Royle was only brought in on an extremely ad hoc basis. I''m trying to second guess the official club statement (when it comes) and just thinking out loud.None of it makes any sense, but I do know that its Royle that has made himself look a bit dishonorable here, and that Norwich City shouldn''t take any flak for this.

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I am assuming Royle didn''t actually sign any kind of contract with us, does anyone know any different?

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anyone got any ideas who we can get to replace him?

How about Huckerby? or perhaps we need someone with a little more experience in this area

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[quote user="swjf50"]anyone got any ideas who we can get to replace him?

How about Huckerby? or perhaps we need someone with a little more experience in this area[/quote]Neil Warnock.

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Warnock is actually a very good shout, but unsure if he''d be interested.

And yes Morty, I agree it doesn''t really make sense and maybe a club statement will clear most of it up.

I would imagine - he wasn''t on a significantly tied down contract. The only thing i''d say is if he was going to be used the way you think might have been intended i don''t think they''d have bothered even announcing it - certainly not giving him a specific role within the club.

And no, I don''t think NCFC should be getting half the stick it is - but to be fair it''s all coming from our fans anyway.

I said last night and i''ll say again it doesn''t look good purely from a fan point (not PR in this case) simply because if the people with power believed that Royle was a necessary component as part of the management structure - it''s never nice to lose someone of importance a month before the start of a new season.

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[quote user="hogesar"]Warnock is actually a very good shout, but unsure if he''d be interested.

And yes Morty, I agree it doesn''t really make sense and maybe a club statement will clear most of it up.

I would imagine - he wasn''t on a significantly tied down contract. The only thing i''d say is if he was going to be used the way you think might have been intended i don''t think they''d have bothered even announcing it - certainly not giving him a specific role within the club.

And no, I don''t think NCFC should be getting half the stick it is - but to be fair it''s all coming from our fans anyway.

I said last night and i''ll say again it doesn''t look good purely from a fan point (not PR in this case) simply because if the people with power believed that Royle was a necessary component as part of the management structure - it''s never nice to lose someone of importance a month before the start of a new season.[/quote]I agree, its not good at all, but its not the four riders of the Apocalypse that some people are predicting!Perhaps Adams was looking at it more as a mate giving him a bit of advice more than "Sh1t, I need help"?

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''Colin'' would be a damn fine choice imo.............even as manager![Y]

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This actually puts the club in a very difficult position.If they are in a huge rush to replace Royle then it shows they lack a bit of confidence in Adams.Its one thing having a mate on board for some advice, a whole other thing employing a babysitter.

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[quote user="morty"]This actually puts the club in a very difficult position.

If they are in a huge rush to replace Royle then it shows they lack a bit of confidence in Adams.

Its one thing having a mate on board for some advice, a whole other thing employing a babysitter.
[/quote]

 

Would be massively surprised if anyone replaces Royle - it''s not like he was in Colney everyday making plans and organising things. By all accounts he never moved away from his home in the NE (and appears he was on holiday in Magaluf for a while after his appointment also), doesn''t suggest someone who is providing a vital, day-to-day role within the club.

 

Expect Adams only brought him in as they have a previous working relationship and he felt he could trust him - can see someone Adams has never worked with before suddenly being brought in as a ''consultant''.

 

Adams said that he made contact with Royle once given the job, so don''t think this was an appointment forced on him by the Board, but they were probably happy to assist Adams by arranging a deal with Joe.

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[quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"]

[quote user="morty"]This actually puts the club in a very difficult position.If they are in a huge rush to replace Royle then it shows they lack a bit of confidence in Adams.Its one thing having a mate on board for some advice, a whole other thing employing a babysitter.[/quote]

 

Would be massively surprised if anyone replaces Royle - it''s not like he was in Colney everyday making plans and organising things. By all accounts he never moved away from his home in the NE (and appears he was on holiday in Magaluf for a while after his appointment also), doesn''t suggest someone who is providing a vital, day-to-day role within the club.

 

Expect Adams only brought him in as they have a previous working relationship and he felt he could trust him - can see someone Adams has never worked with before suddenly being brought in as a ''consultant''.

 

Adams said that he made contact with Royle once given the job, so don''t think this was an appointment forced on him by the Board, but they were probably happy to assist Adams by arranging a deal with Joe.

[/quote]Thats pretty much how I hope it is.Oddly we seem to have somehow made something of Royle''s position, that was probably never the case. We elevated him to "Director of football" when he was likely just "A mate helping out a bit"

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the flip side is that Royle was bought in as a consultant... which would no doubt have been on things such as players available, trainign etc... We hire a new scout and appoint Ricky Martin to a role and Suddenly Royle is redundant.

 

his "consultant fee" will be interesting.. its cost the club money. I said before and will re iterate... If Adams needs help to be manager then why the hell did the board appoint him in the first place? he needs to speak his own mind.

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[quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"]

 

Would be massively surprised if anyone replaces Royle - it''s not like he was in Colney everyday making plans and organising things. By all accounts he never moved away from his home in the NE (and appears he was on holiday in Magaluf for a while after his appointment also), doesn''t suggest someone who is providing a vital, day-to-day role within the club.

 

[/quote]So, to take that to it''s logical conclusion BYG....we never really needed him in the first place ?

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[quote user="Reggie Strayshun"][quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"]


 

Would be massively surprised if anyone replaces Royle - it''s not like he was in Colney everyday making plans and organising things. By all accounts he never moved away from his home in the NE (and appears he was on holiday in Magaluf for a while after his appointment also), doesn''t suggest someone who is providing a vital, day-to-day role within the club.

 

[/quote]

So, to take that to it''s logical conclusion BYG....we never really needed him in the first place ?
[/quote]

 

Impossible to say, I''m sure Adams greatly appreciated a sounding board, especially in the first few weeks when drawing up the plans for the seasons and man management issues. I doubt Adams went to Royle for tactic of training advice so maybe his influence would diminish as the season went on - we can only speculate on this board and no one out of Royle, Adams, Everton or Norwich are going to come out with the truth as everything will be reported through the prisim of PR and news management.

 

Just because Royle wasn''t a vital part of the club doesn''t mean he wasn''t needed. I can''t see his departure ruining Norwich''s season but it is obvious disappointing for Norwich to lose a memeber of the back room staff.

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[quote user="Reggie Strayshun"][quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"]

 

Would be massively surprised if anyone replaces Royle - it''s not like he was in Colney everyday making plans and organising things. By all accounts he never moved away from his home in the NE (and appears he was on holiday in Magaluf for a while after his appointment also), doesn''t suggest someone who is providing a vital, day-to-day role within the club.

 

[/quote]So, to take that to it''s logical conclusion BYG....we never really needed him in the first place ?[/quote]Adams decided he needed a Royle-type mentor, and there was no sugestion this was a short-term need. No matter how Royle may or may not have been performing that role in practice, Adams'' belief in his need for such a mentor will not have disappeared in the last four weeks.That apart, what is not clear is how significant this is. Two posters I respect who seem to have some kind of inside track on what goes on at Carrow Road and Colney have opposite views. Bethnal that Royle''s role was marginal. Parma Ham that Royle was a director of football in all but name.

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To be honest, I was never quite sure of the role he was to play.

Was he someone just to chew over a few niggles that NA had or was he supposed to be the elder statesman bring a bit of nous and a decent CV to the club in an influential way?

If we were looking to bring in players on his say so, and he undoubtedly has great knowledge, I just wonder how many early 20''s players would have been swayed by the name Joe Royle.

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[quote user="PurpleCanary"]Adams decided he needed a Royle-type mentor, and there was no sugestion this was a short-term need. No matter how Royle may or may not have been performing that role in practice, Adams'' belief in his need for such a mentor will not have disappeared in the last four weeks.[/quote]Yes, I''m with purple on this one. I really cannot see what JR could have done so vital in 5 weeks (including the infamous Magalluf holiday) that meant his work here was done and free to head for Merseyside. When the appointment was made and heralded by the club, there was no indication that it was likely to be anything but an ongoing arrangement.

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No disrespect to Joe, but I think he will be easy to replace if NA still feels the need for a crutch.

I assume his links to JR are from his Everton and Oldham days so he will no doubt be a close and trusted friend, but finding an experienced ex manager to help out should be easy to find (curbishley, hoddle, reid, even rioch, stringer, walker, hamilton (LOL))

I think the goalkeeping coach was more of a worry and think theyve done a great job there

keep the faith

 

 

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[quote user="Reggie Strayshun"][quote user="PurpleCanary"]

Adams decided he needed a Royle-type mentor, and there was no sugestion this was a short-term need. No matter how Royle may or may not have been performing that role in practice, Adams'' belief in his need for such a mentor will not have disappeared in the last four weeks.


[/quote]

Yes, I''m with purple on this one. I really cannot see what JR could have done so vital in 5 weeks (including the infamous Magalluf holiday) that meant his work here was done and free to head for Merseyside. When the appointment was made and heralded by the club, there was no indication that it was likely to be anything but an ongoing arrangement.
[/quote]

 

Again with the ''hearlded'' stuff Reggie? The club made the minimum possible fuss over his appointment, it was mentioned in a press released he shared with Holt and Robson. They both then had video interviews whilst nothing was ever heard of from Royle again. I would say it was the exact opposite of ''heralded''.

 

There is no suggestion that JR had finished his work at Norwich, but I do feel the appointment was more one made as the chance was there, Royle being unemployed and open to it, than one of grave neccesity. It''s most likely that he wasn''t at Norwich long enough to really difine what his role eas exactly, maybe if he had been around longer it would have changed and become something closer to the Director of Football, but it certainly wasn''t that in the time he was with the club - that is a full time job and would at least require him reloacting to Norwich. Royle wasn''t on the ''Executive Football Board'' which suggests he wasn''t playing a massive role in the club at present.

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[quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"]

[

Again with the ''hearlded'' stuff Reggie? The club made the minimum possible fuss over his appointment, it was mentioned in a press released he shared with Holt and Robson. They both then had video interviews whilst nothing was ever heard of from Royle again. I would say it was the exact opposite of ''heralded''.

 

[/quote]OK, I''m not going to get bogged down in use of words etc BYG. If you feel that his appointment was low key, then fine . It''s all about individual perception. To me, the board were acutely aware of the furore over Adams''s appointment ; his lack of experience and ''name'' in the game, and saw the hiring of Royle as a means of heading that off. To that end they stressed, in the press release, his experience , longevity and contacts in the game, and no fancy stage managed TV interview would have helped in that regard. Everyone is aware of who Joe Royle is. It was his attributes that were stressed. No problem at all with that per se.Like many others, I''m not getting het up either way about this, but surely it''s a legitimate question that, if he is not replaced immediately, did we really ever need him in the first place ?

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I suggest the following may be something akin to any club statement;

We are grateful for the assistance Joe has given us over his tenure at NCFC, during which it became apparent to Joe that the newly established Executive Football Board contained the experience and expertise needed for the club to move forward without his input. Therefore it was mutually agreed that his own expertise could be utilised more fruitfully within the game elsewhere.

Just a guess on my part.

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To everyone who thinks this means there''s problems in the backrooms at Norwich (as you always seem to hope there is) - I suspect this is more to do with the fact Royle''s role here was very part-time/freelance, and now Everton have offered a more full-time job - so he''s simply gone to a better job instead. He obviously wasn''t even contracted, so that tells you how vital he was.

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[quote user="MancCanary"]To everyone who thinks this means there''s problems in the backrooms at Norwich (as you always seem to hope there is) - I suspect this is more to do with the fact Royle''s role here was very part-time/freelance, and now Everton have offered a more full-time job - so he''s simply gone to a better job instead. He obviously wasn''t even contracted, so that tells you how vital he was.[/quote][Y]

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redmond, fer, hooper, snodgrasswatson, royle

rats only run from the ship when its filling with water

the signs are not great

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[quote user="iron_stan"]redmond, fer, hooper, snodgrasswatson, royle

rats only run from the ship when its filling with water

the signs are not great[/quote][URL=http://s869.photobucket.com/user/mortymccarthy/media/frazer.jpg.html][IMG]http://i869.photobucket.com/albums/ab257/mortymccarthy/frazer.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

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[quote user="The Moose"]It is clear we are in a total pickle how we are going to get out of this death spiral god only knows[/quote][URL=http://s869.photobucket.com/user/mortymccarthy/media/disp_doomed.jpg.html][IMG]http://i869.photobucket.com/albums/ab257/mortymccarthy/disp_doomed.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

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I skimmed the early and later pages of this thread so apologies if I accidentally repeat a view.

From what I can gather the keys points seem to be:

1. The Everton job was available to him before he took the role with us.

2. He remained based in the northwest.

3, He has stated that he was happy with his role at Norwich.

4. He is thought to have been a little loose tongued on transfer plans.

5. He was termed consultant, so probably paid a fee rather than being an employee.

So why would he now leave, and more interestingly why no club statement.

There are a number of possible explanations other than that put forward by the doom mongers:

However the one nobody seems to have suggested is possibly the arrangement was terminated by Norwich. Perhaps he was loose tongued to an extent that was not acceptable, and he was quietly allowed to go and find another position. So maintaining the dignity of all parties. It would also be consistent with the lack of a club statement.

OK as a theory it is out there, but no more so than the thoughts of the doom mongers and obviously a lot more positive.

Clearly Adams feels he needs a mentor and if so a replacement will need to be found. Strangely I am not that bothered about Royle going. His personal managerial record is to put it politely mediocre. I would prefer Adams to be guided by an old hand with a much better track record. Particularly somebody with recognised tactical nous.

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