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breaker

B****y Moaners!!!!

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I have to ask, what do some of you want?! For weeks now this forum has been full of concern over Dean Ashton being sold with loads of negative comments about Worthy & the board and now, when Deano himself commits to the club and manager, there are still some people who continue to moan about the possible negatives! If Dean Ashton happened to log on to this forum he will probably wonder just why he has committed himself for four years to a club with such whinging fans. My information is that both Dean & his uncle were more than happy to extend the contract (yes for more money) in order to continue with Dean''s football education. What would be the weight of expectancy if he had joined Newcastle or Man City for £7 million and then failed to score? Where is James Beattie (£6M) now? Playing for England - no. Where is Francis Jeffers (£7M)? Robert Earnshaw (£3M) struggles to get a game, Clinton Morrison (£4.5M) had to drop back down to the Championship to get regular football. It ain''t easy scoring in the Premiership and Dean Ashton is not yet Alan Shearer, Thierry Henry, Michael Owen or even Mark Viduka and I am sure that both him and his advisers are aware of this fact. Norwich will continue to prove an excellent club in which Dean can hone his talents until one day, perhaps he will become England''s main striker and we should be thankful that we have him.

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everybody has a point of view.......

.....and that is the idea of this forum, to share our views. Hence to the title "Have YOUR Say".

 

as Tufnell said we have nothing to praise them about, so what else is there to do but moan?

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The fact is Breaker that there are a number of people on this board - and in life in general - who are only happy when they are moaning.

I don''t know why that is, but for some reason being morose, downbeat, negative, cynical and patronising seems to make them happy.

The only reason which seems plausible to me is that by being like this it makes them feel better about their own lives - which you can''t help but suspect are really quite sad.

It is obvious to them that they all know far more about football than Nigel Worthington, are far better coaches than Steve Foley and Doug Livermore and would all run the club far better than Delia and the board. However, by some vicious twist of fate they find that the only thing they have ever actually ''achieved''  is to keep up a diatribe of moaning, whinging and negative comments from the sidelines.

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Oh I assure you moaning doesn''t make you happy, but the misery becomes a little more tolerable, However I only moan in general not on this board about the team, management etc. but the standards of posting well theres another subject.

I think we all know who the principal culprit is with over 2000 posts. 

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[quote]The fact is Breaker that there are a number of people on this board - and in life in general - who are only happy when they are moaning. I don''t know why that is, but for some reason being morose, do...[/quote]

To be honest Mr R I find your comments far more annoying than a discussion about why the team is underperforming.

All in just one post you have yourself moaned about, criticised and belittled with sarcastic comments about 80% of the people who use this forum.

To borrow and slightly alter a paragraph of yours.  The only reason which seems plausible to me is that by being like this it makes you feel better about your own live - which you can''t help but suspect is really quite sad.

It appears all you have "achieved" is to moan about people who want to talk about keeping the club moving forward and how they feel is the best way to do that.  Well Done!

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Mr Rosario, your post is both patronising and sanctimonious in equal measures.

I, like a lot of other "sensible" posters on this board, have supported NW from the start. Through the objections to his initial appointment, through his "difficult" second season, through his strange signings and tactical mysteries, and through his disciplinary actions which nearly all of our team have experienced in some form or other.

But I have, being a big boy, come to my own conclusion about Nigel based on my opinion of his performance during the last 12 months and before.

My conclusion is based on the state of our young players and their lack of first team chances, the complete lack of passing ability in the team, the coaching and development of our first team players, the consistent picking of players in unnatural positions, the state of our reserve team and their motivation, the scapegoating of certain players while others are "undroppable", the signing of players that can finish a marathon but can''t pass a football and his total tactical naiveté.

There are more points, but these are fresh in my mind and are part of the reason I am beginning to think that Nigel Worthington may take us backwards if allowed to continue in this vein.

I am prepared to give him this season to rebuild, but if we do not start (at least) to play good football equivalent to the sum of our parts, I will be hoping for a managerial replacement.

That ain''t moaning. That is well constructed argument. If you can counter that with anything other than "Yeah, but, right, he got us promoted didn''t he?" then I am prepared to listen and adapt my views accordingly.

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In answer to your question, what some of us want is........

a, promotion

b, not to spend another ten years outside the top flight

c, new signings with some quality about them rather than rank average also-rans

d, the demonstration of some ambition

e, for people to get beyond their ''small club'' metality and associated expectations.

f, a manager that doesn''t keep banging on about ''first class'' work rates when our football is woeful.

I''m sure I could think of others but I''m supposed to be working.

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[quote]Oh I assure you moaning doesn''t make you happy, but the misery becomes a little more tolerable, However I only moan in general not on this board about the team, management etc. but the standards of po...[/quote]

Like I''m worried!.

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Can I add another moan....

 

If McKenzie is not good enough for Div1 why didnt we try and sign Morrison last year along with Ashton? Surley we could of come up with a couple of million then.

Also, why does it always rain at weekends?

Why is it never the girl I fancy who is interested in me but her ugly mate?

 

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OK Saint and Mook.

Firstly I deliberately didn''t mention any names in my post, and I didn''t particularly have you in mind, but you two obviously seem to have taken it personally.

Neither did I make any comment about how many posters I had in mind or what percentage of the posts on this board were moaning and negative - but it''s interesting that you think 80% of the posts on this board come into this category Saint.

And sorry Saint, but as for your last paragraph whilst I acknowledge that most if not all people on this board want Norwich to improve and go forward I don''t think that just moaning about something is going to improve it. I''m not saying all the moaning posts are like this, plenty of them are constructive as well, but by no means all of them. It certainly seems to me that some people think that the more they moan about the club the more it shows they care - to me that just seems a very odd mindset.

Mook. Only the other day you put up a list of seven points that you weren''t happy about. I put up a point by point reply (agreeing on one of your points and taking a different view on the other six). This wasn''t a "Worthy got us promoted now stop moaning" type of response.

One of your points was that when Worthy signs players he always seems to go for workrate over skill. I replied saying that he has signed Hucks, Ashton and Youseff amongst others and that no way could what you say apply to them. You then replied on that point and stated going on about Leon McKenzie! I''d never even mentioned him in my post so it seems to me that you''ve either totally misread my post or not read it at all. It''s difficult to have a debate with someone who doesn''t bother listening to what you are saying - or read what you are writing.

Anyway, enjoy the match tomorrow if you''re going. Hopefully Deano signing the contract extension will give everyone a boost. Should be a great atmosphere with lots of Leeds fans there. Hopefully we''ll get a good win and things will suddenly start to look a lot rosier!

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It seems as if my original comment has been extended to include all ''negative'' or ''moaning'' posts. This was not the intention - I was focusing solely on negative comments posted even when Dean Ashton had signed an extension to his contract. I totally support our right to moan or complain and have done so on this forum particularly about older defenders who aren''t good enough, no creative midfielder being bought, poor tactics, performances etc. But I cannot understand anyone complaining when arguably our best player commits himself to the club - it seems extremely wierd. I get the feeling that if Arwen Robben signed for City then there would be someone who would complain because it would surely indicate that Huckerby was to be sold and that the board should resign immediately.

I wonder if Robben would be interested - after all he''s hardly a regular at Chelsea is he..............?

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[quote]The fact is Breaker that there are a number of people on this board - and in life in general - who are only happy when they are moaning. I don''t know why that is, but for some reason being morose, do...[/quote]

Spot on Mr R. and Breaker.

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I largely agree with Saint Canary and Mook. Both these fans regularly contribute reasoned and well constructed posts with very valid points of view. If I had my way they would both be heading the list of ''top posters''! Well done to them.

There is a huge difference between constructive comment / criticism and downright slagging off of individuals or the club in general. I actually think that very few posters to this board fall into the latter category (but there are some I agree).

Many people (including you Breaker) have missed the point about this so called ''new contract''. You say Ashton has ''committed himself for 4 years''. So what''s new? Had he not already (only some 8 months ago) ''committed himself'' for 3.5 years in his original contract?? The harsh truth is that no amount of spin and picture taking from Carrow Road yesterday actually alters the situation at all. Yes - it was good to see a ''united front'' of player, manager and board but I still say that if a big enough offer comes in he will go. Whether that is before 31 Aug. is now very unlikely but the January window is a probable and the window next summer even more so (assuming we don''t go up and he has scored goals).

If Ashton had been here 3 years with his current contract expiring in only a few months then yesteday would have been a more significant event. As it is I think it was pure publicity (although I have no doubt of the sincerity of the players comments or the money the club are investing in him) and a desperate attempt to try and stop the speculation. In that, it may succeed (for the short term) but it will start up again as sure as the sun will rise tomorrow morning. What do we do then? Give him yet another contract??? 

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[quote]Spot on Mr R. and Breaker.[/quote]

Another thought provoking, in depth post from Dicky.

ersonName w:st="on"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Mr</span> RosarioersonName>, I must admit I did take exception to your post.  As you pointed out, normally your posts (which I enjoy) are well rounded arguments with good points being made.  Generally you add a different point of view and offer plenty to the board.  However, the post in question was extremely offensive to a lot (Ok maybe not 80%) of people on this forum.  No matter how eloquently you worded your post you generalised that people who complain on this board are sad little people with no substance to their lives.  I am sorry if I misconstrued what you deem to be moaning but I can''t apologise for finding your first post on this topic arrogant and condescending.

I realise that discussing tactics, signings etc on this board is not going to take the club forward because it''s just a discussion. 

 

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[quote]I largely agree with Saint Canary and Mook. Both these fans regularly contribute reasoned and well constructed posts with very valid points of view. If I had my way they would both be heading the list...[/quote]

The whole point of Ashton signing a new contract was to indicate to the media, fans, and any other clubs that may be interested, that he is not for sale at this current time.

Of course, this may change over the coming seasons, and nobody is saying he will definitely be with us for four years, but it was a brilliant move IMO as it puts an end to the endless speculation, and more importantly, allows Deano to get on with his job without the constant stress of "Ashton linked to West Ham, Ashton linked to Man City" etc. etc.

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Ok, Mr Rosario, allow me to apologise. When replying to your post I did forget who the third person you named was, and I thought it was Leon. I certainly don''t feel like I can (or should) have any effect on our team, but it is nice to find that there are others who feel the same as me. I felt that your post, and others who have posted on the same subject, sweep a lot of people who think about the game into a little pile.

My back is up because I have read Saint, myself, Zipper, Yankee and others who I consider to have a fairly well-rounded opinion on things getting slated for being moaners! I can only speak for myself, but I have long defended Nigel and Holt and Svensson and Helveg and Rivers and Easton and ALL the rest of them that get/got a hard time because I know how difficult a job they have.

And I''m overjoyed that Ashton has signed for a further year; even if it is a token gesture it means a lot to me that there is some good news for once.

However, in the main, my gripe is with Nigel and his signings/training/tactics/selections. I want him to be the man that takes us forward. I hope he can be that man. i have given him a long time to identify certain problems. But with every passing (no pun intended) day i lose a little more faith in the man.

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[quote]The fact is Breaker that there are a number of people on this board - and in life in general - who are only happy when they are moaning. I don''t know why that is, but for some reason being morose, do...[/quote]

Therefore, they are not allowed an opinion.
Oh, and we lost today.

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Moaning..groaning call it what you like... but many of the compaints I have read are correct and quite valid to be made.. Surely as fans we are allowed to make our views known on messageboards like this.. or have we got to turn into YES men and bury our heads in the sand and say everything is honky dorie...like the chase and Hamilton eras

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