Which is better?

[Phillip J Fry 0]

[quote user="jaemae2"][quote user="Phillip J Fry"][quote user="Herman "]What teams were we playing? What formation were we playing? Who else were in our team etc etc etc?[/quote]

I feel this is beyond his comprehension...

[/quote]

You might not want to talk about intelligence. You aren''t too swift.[/quote]

I fully understand the point you are attempting to make. If all your numbers add up then, statistically speaking, Bassong is far more important to our defence that Turner is and that our defence is weaker with Turner in it.

I''m a big fan of statistics in football and fully support their use but you have provided no context for these statistics. You have blurted out a statistic that, in your mind, justifies your anti-Turner views and then refused to acknowledge anything else that might suggest that the statistics present a false picture of both Bassong and Turner. 

In fact, I''m not sure why I''m even bothering replying to you, you''ve clearly made up your mind and no amount of argument (however valid) is going to make you anymore reasonable.

[Highland Canary 76]

Of course Sussex. One man''s pessimism is another''s realism. I suspect that none of Ruddy, Olsson and Snodgrass - the three top in the POTS vote - will be here come August. It is unrealistic to expect players of this calibre to forego the riches of the PL.

[jaemae2 0]

[quote user="Herman "]It''s another Wiz, Phillip. A younger, unimproved version.[/quote]

I''ve also conveniently ignored the fact Michael Turner handed Hull City their victory over us, costing us 3 points and also added the goal into Bassong''s total....

[jaemae2 0]

For all you idiots whining about things like formation and who else was on the field.

IT''S A COMPARISON OF 2 PEOPLE THAT PLAY THE SAME POSITION. You seriously can''t be this stupid. In every situation that Bassong was on the field the team performed better defensively.

[Phillip J Fry 0]

[quote user="jaemae2"]For all you idiots whining about things like formation and who else was on the field.

IT''S A COMPARISON OF 2 PEOPLE THAT PLAY THE SAME POSITION. You seriously can''t be this stupid. In every situation that Bassong was on the field the team performed better defensively.[/quote]

Oh dear god, it gets worse and worse.

[Katie Borkins 1]

Who is this six-fingered Jaymey?

[Sussexyellow 55]

Touche Highland. My optimism may be a lack of realism.

I have hopes that Ruddy will be here. I have posted before on this but in a nutshell I think he is a balanced character who will weigh up having a family settled in the area plus loads of money against moving on, upheaval and even more loads of money. I think his experiences at Everton where he was forever out on loan somewhere different may have had an impact.

As to the other two, who knows? It will probably come down, to an extent, as to the impression the new manager makes. So in the balance but I have not given up hope on them either.

[chicken 0]

Ahhh, now you mention ''team''.

I was wondering when that would come up.

Also, if you are comparing goals conceded over a period it is probably best to state the games and when they occurred.

I could compare two 5 game periods in different seasons for example. Or just two sets of five games from the same season but chosen to suit whatever it is someone may intend to prove.

Overall I think the reason people prefer Turner isn''t down to stats or games won, it''s perhaps the way he plays and generally gives his all and how they perceive that Bassong has not played as well this season as last season - especially in the run in when he went missing in the aftermath of Hughton''s sacking.

I really don''t think there is much between them. To me Turner is an unfussy type of defender who remains focused throughout. Bassong, whilst probably better technically and with age on his side, has a bit more pace, is prone to making some strange decisions and has lost the ball on a number of occasions taking on a striker or turning into trouble when no need as the last man.

I also think it is fair to question Bassong''s commitment to the team.

Otherwise, I do find that you are making a crusade out of this for some very strange reason. It''s possible that neither will be playing for us next season.

[GJP 79]

I was a bit disappointed we didn''t get the Turner/Bassong partnership for the last 5 games.

Ideally you want your 2 strongest centrebacks at the heart of defence - especially so when you''re scrapping for survival.

Problem is that if we only play 1 at a time that 1 often has to carry the other''s understudy.

Obviously we won''t see Bassong play for Norwich again which is a shame in my opinion. We haven''t had too many better defenders in the last 20 years - something that too many people lost sight of this season.

[jaemae2 0]

[quote user="chicken"]Ahhh, now you mention ''team''.

I was wondering when that would come up.

Also, if you are comparing goals conceded over a period it is probably best to state the games and when they occurred.

I could compare two 5 game periods in different seasons for example. Or just two sets of five games from the same season but chosen to suit whatever it is someone may intend to prove.

Overall I think the reason people prefer Turner isn''t down to stats or games won, it''s perhaps the way he plays and generally gives his all and how they perceive that Bassong has not played as well this season as last season - especially in the run in when he went missing in the aftermath of Hughton''s sacking.

I really don''t think there is much between them. To me Turner is an unfussy type of defender who remains focused throughout. Bassong, whilst probably better technically and with age on his side, has a bit more pace, is prone to making some strange decisions and has lost the ball on a number of occasions taking on a striker or turning into trouble when no need as the last man.

I also think it is fair to question Bassong''s commitment to the team.

Otherwise, I do find that you are making a crusade out of this for some very strange reason. It''s possible that neither will be playing for us next season.[/quote]

Thank you for this post: I''m not nec. directing anything in this thread to people like you.

Also to note, I wasn''t even trying to mention the stuff of when Bassong was on the field with someone other than Turner untill people started pushing, nor was I going to mention Turner''s 5 game stretch without Bassong. My only point was, not matter what combination when Bassong was on the field the defense was better. When Turner was on the field it was worse.

You actually gathered my point, yes people think Bassong is worse than Turner solely through the idea he has "no passion" yet without "passion'' when he''s on the field the team is better defensivly. It''s a stupid opinion, and not based on fact just emotion. Turner is a shit CB that I can''t wait till he gets off the team, the fact that he plays with "passion" and he''s as bad as he is, it makes it worse for me.

[jaemae2 0]

[quote user="GJP"]I was a bit disappointed we didn''t get the Turner/Bassong partnership for the last 5 games.

Ideally you want your 2 strongest centrebacks at the heart of defence - especially so when you''re scrapping for survival.

Problem is that if we only play 1 at a time that 1 often has to carry the other''s understudy.

Obviously we won''t see Bassong play for Norwich again which is a shame in my opinion. We haven''t had too many better defenders in the last 20 years - something that too many people lost sight of this season.[/quote]

I was more upset that we didn''t get to see Bassong/Yobo over the last 5 rather than Bassong/Turner but yeah that woulda been better than Turner/Martin/Bennett.

[Bill 1,788]

what is a math question ?is it anything to do with Toyah ?

[Monty13 2,229]

Given the choice, especially heading into the Championship, i''d personally pick Turner over Bassong, the figures you are trying to use for your own opposite preference are virtually meaningless.

I can''t see either being here much longer so it''s kind of a pointless argument, I''m pretty irritated that Turner''s contract has been allowed to lapse, he would have been superb in the Championship, but a PL club will pick him up.

[jaemae2 0]

the definition of "math question" is pretty simple. It''s a question that involves math. That''s different than a question that doesn''t involve math. Hence "math question".

[Sussexyellow 55]

There you go Jaemae - just have a view rather than dress it up with iffy statistics.

Now I would agree that our best pairings have been Bassong/Turner and Bassong/Yobo and would have preferred to see one of them for the last 5 games.

However Bassong appeared to be not available for Adams. Now why is another question altogether!

[jaemae2 0]

[quote user="Sussexyellow"]There you go Jaemae - just have a view rather than dress it up with iffy statistics.

Now I would agree that our best pairings have been Bassong/Turner and Bassong/Yobo and would have preferred to see one of them for the last 5 games.

However Bassong appeared to be not available for Adams. Now why is another question altogether![/quote]

Yes. I''m tired of the "Turner is our best CB" idiocy when all it is based on is an impression of Bassong quitting or not playing with "passion". Yet with him in the team playing without passion, the defense is better, and better when he''s in the team without Turner.

To the point of possibly quitting on the team (which I have no clue if it took place or Adams just didn''t want to play him), if he did then yeah f him, still doesn''t mean Turner is a better CB.

[jaemae2 0]

[quote user="Monty13"]Given the choice, especially heading into the Championship, i''d personally pick Turner over Bassong, the figures you are trying to use for your own opposite preference are virtually meaningless.

I can''t see either being here much longer so it''s kind of a pointless argument, I''m pretty irritated that Turner''s contract has been allowed to lapse, he would have been superb in the Championship, but a PL club will pick him up.[/quote]

I have less problem with him in the Championship than I do with him in the PL, I agree.

[Bill 1,788]

err, what is math ?anything to do with Bathong ?

[Canary On The Wire 0]

Anyone trying to use one stat as a basis to judge one player''s ability against another needs to seriously re-evaluate their footballing knowledge and read a fookin book

[SeattleCanary 0]

[quote user="jaemae2"]You want more? OK.

Bassong with someone that isn''t Turner next to him:

18 goals conceded in 12.

Turner with someone that isn''t Bassong next to him: 10 goals conceded in 5 games.[/quote]

This whole post is dumb. You take no account for who the opposition is, which is the most relevant piece of information. Not mention whole else is in the team. If Whittaker were in defence with Turner etc it''s a team game. You cannot simply just throw games played and goals conceded up. Dumb.

[jaemae2 0]

[quote user="SeattleCanary"][quote user="jaemae2"]You want more? OK.

Bassong with someone that isn''t Turner next to him:

18 goals conceded in 12.

Turner with someone that isn''t Bassong next to him: 10 goals conceded in 5 games.[/quote]

This whole post is dumb. You take no account for who the opposition is, which is the most relevant piece of information. Not mention whole else is in the team. If Whittaker were in defence with Turner etc it''s a team game. You cannot simply just throw games played and goals conceded up. Dumb.

[/quote]

Hey moron, Bassong would have played more games with Whittaker in defense than Turner has and those teams still conceded less. Same thing with if anyone praises the Chelsea shut out, that happened with 2 other CBs next to Turner and Bassong/Yobo also shut out Man City (who I''m pretty sure finished 3 spots higher than Chelsea...)

[jaemae2 0]

[quote user="Canary On The Wire"]Anyone trying to use one stat as a basis to judge one player''s ability against another needs to seriously re-evaluate their footballing knowledge and read a fookin book[/quote]

IT''S A COMPARISON OF WHAT DEFENSIVE PAIRING PERFORMED BETTER. When goals are conceded it''s generally a defense hasn''t done their job. This isn''t difficult. When Bassong without Turner is on the field the defense is better, when Turner is on the field without Bassong it is worse. Every situation/pairing.

[Canary On The Wire 0]

I refer you to my previous statement....

[jaemae2 0]

[quote user="Canary On The Wire"]I refer you to my previous statement....[/quote]

Do you want to judge their ability on "passion" then?

Because if you don''t want to base it on stats... Who gives a fuck how many clearances or tackles are made during those games if the goals still end up in the back of the net. The FACT remains the defense performed better when Bassong was on the field and Turner wasn''t.

[jaemae2 0]

[quote user="jaemae2"][quote user="Canary On The Wire"]I refer you to my previous statement....[/quote]

Do you want to judge their ability on "passion" then?

Because if you don''t want to base it on stats... Who gives a fuck how many clearances or tackles are made during those games if the goals still end up in the back of the net. The FACT remains the defense performed better when Bassong was on the field and Turner wasn''t.[/quote]

Give me a site that lists the amount of clearances and tackles in games I''ll do those comparisons for you...

[Herman 9,698]

Big tackles.com?

[Canary On The Wire 0]

I form my footballing opinions by watching a lot of football. I then use statistical analysis to see how far my opinions are in line with the stats and adjust accordingly if I feel I''ve called it wrong. I will sometimes disagree with what the stats say and sometimes agree depending upon the situation.

Forming arguments from stats alone is very underdeveloped.

[jaemae2 0]

[quote user="Canary On The Wire"]I form my footballing opinions by watching a lot of football. I then use statistical analysis to see how far my opinions are in line with the stats and adjust accordingly if I feel I''ve called it wrong. I will sometimes disagree with what the stats say and sometimes agree depending upon the situation.

Forming arguments from stats alone is very underdeveloped.[/quote]

So, "passion" then...

Cause if you watched, it was abundantly clear the defense was better with Bassong on the field, than with Turner on it...

[Brightside 0]

Wow what bizzare question and an even more set of bizzare posts trying to justify it. You can''t possibly be basing your opinion limited stats showing only goals conceded are you? You do know that the role of a defender is more than just stopping goals being conceded?

It''s all well and good comparing two individual players but the thing about soccer, or football as we like to call it is that there are 22 players on the field not 2!! Therefore trying to judge success without factoring in the other players, not to mention numerous other factors is stupid and pointless.

[breadman 0]

The last time I played at carrow road I was in goal for 45 minutes and conceded no goals. John Ruddy in his last game at carrow road conceded 2 goals over ninety minutes.

Does this mean that I am better than him and city should sign me up?