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Tetteys Jig

This obsession with Tiki Taka

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What is it with people becoming obsessed with this supposed ''Norwich Way''? Surely the best type of football we should be playing is one that wins games. In no way does that mean i''m defending Hughton''s approach, as it wasn''t effective and his style often wasn''t suited to the opposition we faced.

I agree, I want to see interesting games too, but would you not cheer if we scored a header from 6 yards from a Redmond cross? I personally (as I keep referring to) would prefer us to go down the route Palace and Stoke have gone down, that is decent, pretty fun to watch football (and successful) without forgetting their old style of ugly football.

We need a mix of styles so when people play us, they think a) we''ll pass them off the park but also b) we''ll dominate them at the ugly stuff. There''s no point turning into Arsenal of a couple of years ago and having our own version of Rock Paper Scissors going on when we can beat the likes of Wigan and Leeds but then become unstuck versus someone like Brentford because they had that tall lad at the back.

For me, we already have the players to succeed at plan a, we now need the manager appointment to rev them up and succeed at plan b at the same time. Then we can win some games with nice football, but when needs be, we''ll be scraping 1-0 wins instead of 0-0 and 0-0 draws instead of 0-1 losses.

Look at Man U over the years, they have consistently achieved mainly because of their ability to win when playing style doesn''t meet the eye in tandem with making sure the win the games when they are playing well. It''s about making us more ruthless, getting them Holt type players back that will sneak a knee in when going to win a header and combining them with the likes of Snodgrass'' deadly left foot and Redmonds sharp turn of pace and close control.

Our biggest failings last season were a) not imposing ourselves on games (probably only the Sunderland home game we truly dominated) and b) not showing enough guile, arrogance and guts to prove we deserved to win games even when we didn''t. What''s the point stringing 20 passes together for the sake of it and then not doing anything with it?

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I don''t think anyone is expecting Norwich to start playing ''Tiki Taka'' overnight - or even want that route at all. There is hardly an obsession with it as I think you are pretty much the first person to mention it on here.

 

I think people just don''t want the rigid, 10 men behind the ball, hope to nick something from a set-piece football that Hughton regressed to (and also which Malky played at Cardiff). The ''Norwich Way'' is a little bit of a misnomer as there isn''t an ingrained style - while Norwich were applauded for the football they played under Mike Walker, in Europe there were still regarded as a direct or even long-ball team who relied on a big man up front.

 

Personally, I''d like Norwich to develop something like there is at Southampton or Dortmund, a solid base capable of quick counter attacks - these sides do not play tiki taka by any means and are capable of scoring goals in many different ways.

 

Changing the style may not mean instant success, but if Norwich just lump and thump their way to promotion, relegation will almost certainly follow as it won''t cut it in the Premier League. It''s time for Norwich to be a little progressive.

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Nobody said we wanted tiki taka. Theres not 2 choices, negative & tiki taka. Theres pressing high up the pitch like Southampton, theres playing on the counter with pace, theres long ball etc. Nobody said they wanted tiki taka like Barcelona we are sick of watching the negative crap we have been for 2 years. and just want us to go and try and win games.

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[quote user="He Scored Against The Scum"]Nobody said we wanted tiki taka. Theres not 2 choices, negative & tiki taka. Theres pressing high up the pitch like Southampton, theres playing on the counter with pace, theres long ball etc. Nobody said they wanted tiki taka like Barcelona we are sick of watching the negative crap we have been for 2 years. and just want us to go and try and win games.[/quote]Yep, this.Although Guardiola''s ''tiki-taka'' style had phenomenal success initially, Barca were thrashed 8-0 on aggregate by Bayern last season trying to employ the same tactics. Then Bayern, who swept all before them last season, were hammered by a more pragmatic Real Madrid this season. When ''Plan A'' doesn''t work, Guardiola has no backup plan to break down well-drilled defensive units. Even Hughton was (rightly) accused of ''possession for possession''s sake'' as we endlessly knocked the ball around in our own and the middle third before running into a brick wall. I feel that a ''high pressing'' game would be extremely entertaining to watch, even if it does often leave us short-handed at the back – obviously it required great levels of fitness, but the apologetic and conservative tactics we have employed for the past two years surely need to change now we''re a bigger fish in a smaller pond.

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I just think Malky is getting a raw deal off some people tarnishing him with the same brush Hughton was. It was clear Malky played the ''nick a goal'' football sometimes but only when it suited (away at tough grounds) and he had a plan B. Cardiff were in fact level on points with us with 17 points from 16 games when Mackay was told to leave. Difference was, Cardiff were in their first season up, we in our third. He''d picked up big results against Swansea, Man U and Man City and were reasonably well placed for a first year in the Premiership.

Whilst we wouldn''t get the flair football some people want, we''d see a lot more fight and passion out of the players and less rigid tactics at least.

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I don''t see any evidence at all from less rigidity from Malky. Evaluations of their respective performances and decisions including emphasis on shape and organisation above potential dictation of play sells the Malky is Hughton card to me straight away.

You can''t base an argument off what Malky might do in seasons to come. From what we''ve seen....no thanks.

I''d get behind him, or whoever the new man is, but my colours are nailed firmly to the mast in that even if he does get us promoted he should not lead us in the Premier League.

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Canary OTW, that kind of gets to my point though, sod the fantasy of "who should be manager of us in the premiership in two seasons" we are in the championship now and our objective is to get back to the premiership in whatever way gives us the best chance, that may not be riding to the title on a white unicorn dressed in golden armour, it may be charging through on a big fat bull dressed in heavy iron chainmail (or something in between).

If he can get us promoted, it will be job well done, even if we did have to sack him 6 games in on a couple of points. Walk before we can run.

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[quote user="Jimmy Smith"]I just think Malky is getting a raw deal off some people tarnishing him with the same brush Hughton was. It was clear Malky played the ''nick a goal'' football sometimes but only when it suited (away at tough grounds) and he had a plan B. Cardiff were in fact level on points with us with 17 points from 16 games when Mackay was told to leave. Difference was, Cardiff were in their first season up, we in our third. He''d picked up big results against Swansea, Man U and Man City and were reasonably well placed for a first year in the Premiership. Whilst we wouldn''t get the flair football some people want, we''d see a lot more fight and passion out of the players and less rigid tactics at least.[/quote]

 

I don''t think Malky is getting a raw deal at all, he plays how he plays. His Cardiff team very much reminded me of Hughton''s first season, got some results against big teams by being organised and effective from set-plays but then bottled it versus smaller teams away from home. There is nothing to suggest he would be any better than Hughton (who had a much better record than him in the Championship). Appointing Malky is just getting in Hughton 2.0. If had never played for Norwich I think no one here would really be talking about him, he has certainly proven less than Steve Clarke who no one seems to want.

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[quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"]

[quote user="Jimmy Smith"]I just think Malky is getting a raw deal off some people tarnishing him with the same brush Hughton was. It was clear Malky played the ''nick a goal'' football sometimes but only when it suited (away at tough grounds) and he had a plan B. Cardiff were in fact level on points with us with 17 points from 16 games when Mackay was told to leave. Difference was, Cardiff were in their first season up, we in our third. He''d picked up big results against Swansea, Man U and Man City and were reasonably well placed for a first year in the Premiership. Whilst we wouldn''t get the flair football some people want, we''d see a lot more fight and passion out of the players and less rigid tactics at least.[/quote]

 

I don''t think Malky is getting a raw deal at all, he plays how he plays. His Cardiff team very much reminded me of Hughton''s first season, got some results against big teams by being organised and effective from set-plays but then bottled it versus smaller teams away from home. There is nothing to suggest he would be any better than Hughton (who had a much better record than him in the Championship). Appointing Malky is just getting in Hughton 2.0. If had never played for Norwich I think no one here would really be talking about him, he has certainly proven less than Steve Clarke who no one seems to want.

[/quote]

Hughtons first season (certainly up until the January) was a success though. We may not have scored a lot, but he made our defence into a solid unit. Malky basically had the good bits of the Hughton reign without the bad bits. Perhaps it might have gone sour at Cardiff had Moody stayed and they had carried on, but it''s also worth noting they were in their first premiership season.

In the last three years, Malky has a play off semi final and carling cup final after starting the year with 10 players in his squad, then a promotion, then he was sailing to survival in mid table when he was unceremoniously sacked. That''s why I want him, his playing time here is simply a bonus. Malky may be pretty defensive, but he doesn''t forget the need to attack like Hughton does.

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Personally I just want to see some DYNAMIC football!

High energy, high intensity play. I don''t expect us to be playing tika taka but similarly don''t want to be watching long ball ''percentage based'' football.

For this reason I think Zola or Garcia would be interesting options for the job. Both have had relative success in the championship playing pressing, possession based football.

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There is no Norwich way, just like there is no West Ham way.

West Ham fans want to play the "academy" way but we havent done that since 1986.

All I want from Norwich after the last 2 years of negative boring football, is some attacking positive play, I don''t care if it is lump and rush or tiki taka.

I don''t think I would have minded the negative football as much if we were winning games but we didn''t and it was so boring especially away from home.

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Some good posts here, Paul knocks it in the onion bag with his last sentence though.

Style only becomes an issue when we aren''t winning regularly - it doesn''t even have to be that often. Style never got thrown around under Gunn or Hamilton or Roeder because at a lower level, even if you''re bad you win more games than you do being below average in the Premier League.

It''s all a load of old pony because whatever style we play, be that Brazilian circa 1970, The Dutch Total Football of the mid to late 70s, the kick anything that moves long ball of Wimbledon of the 80s or the tiki taka of the Barca side under Guardiola, as long as we''re winning a few games nobody will give much of a flying ****.

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I agree with the notion that fans won''t care as long as Norwich are winning and that will be fine in Championship. If we long-ball and bore our way to promotion I doubt there will be many complaints.

The question is, what next?

Norwich aren''t going to ''keep winning'' in the Prem. Every team from 9th downwards this season lost more games than they won.

So if Norwich get promotion based on naff football they will have to continue that in the Premier League - which means another season like the last two. Don''t think the club can get promoted and then change over the period of one close season their entire ethos - I think this is what Hughton tried when bringing in ball players like Fer, Redmond and RVW, but it is incredibly hard to suddenly switch around. When it wasn''t working he switched back to a more dour style which the club then didn''t have the players to back up.

If Norwich want to change to this mythical ''Norwich way'' of attacking football it must be done now, and fans will have to be patient. Or we can go for more instant success and then everyone will have to get use to the ball being in the air more than on the ground.

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