Radio Norfolk

[crabbycanary 2]

I wish people would stop nit picking about the ''1 week'' comment.

At the time, I am sure that the Board felt that 1 week was ample, but as some of us have learnt, that other factors can kick in during that time ,and have to extend the time limit.

What should McNally do now, get a thousand lashes and have his tongue cut out?

Also Sherwood may or may not have been the answer, but a subtle difference was that he had a squad full of Spurs players at this disposal, and Adams had 5 games with a team fighting relegation. Different pressures, can bring differing outcomes from people.

But as, has been said before, any stick.....

[chicken 0]

Or perhaps a manager previously not considered available presented themselves as an option.

We just won''t know until they are appointed as to what the ''complexities'' may well have been.

[JF 694]

Delia paints a picture of them all sitting around the table in January completely clueless as to what to do. For Fs sack you are running a multi million pound business, there should have been options in place if there were a need to sack the manager. It goes completely against what McNally said in his interview at a later date, that it would be negligent not to have a plan in place and not to be aware of the options.

[militantcanary 0]

I hate to agree with flip flop Wiz but this is the reason why McNally has fronted up press interviews in the last 2-3 years. To repeat the same old who else is there reminded me of the Gunn fiasco. The best thing Wynn Jones and Smith have done in the 19 years is to step back to a degree and leave it to McNally who takes the nicey nicey approach of leaving someone in situ because he comes round and enjoys the cooking (Hamilton and Worthington) in place, clean out of the equation.

I am not trying to drag up old ground but two of the decision makers who have had a chequered record in 19 years are still there which worries me. McNally less so.

I think it was also rather undignified to slag off Hughton off regularly, he did poorly this season but was also subject to death by a thousand cuts, ie no backing in Jan and being briefed against in Feb. He was a dead man walking from Christmas time which MWJ has confirmed by saying he would have been out in May in any event.

Bit of a mess really but I have reasonable confidence we can recover

[JF 694]

Found it very concerning that Delia implies it was them making the decisions on sacking Hughton. She says" David said to us you can either go this way and it will be a gamble or you can go that way and it will be a gamble". Looks like they are still the ones making the key decisions.

[Rivixter 0]

[quote user="Bor Bor Bor"][quote user="Wiz"]

[quote user="Sussexyellow"]Not in January Wiz. Get it right FFS[/quote]

 

He was still available when CH was cocking it up Sussex.

[/quote]It was mid-October 2013, not January 2014.And would we have wanted Pulis here?

2013/10/24 12:04 PM:

[quote user="First Wizard"]

Back on track, I do fear Pulis could save Palace and no, I don''t want him here .[^o)]

[/quote]You really are a mendacious old tosspot and an embarrassment to our club.[/quote]Agreed, If I hadn''t seen him posting on here for so long, I would think he was from them lot down the a140 on a wind up.

[nutty nigel 7,509]

[quote user="JF"]Delia paints a picture of them all sitting around the table in January completely clueless as to what to do. For Fs sack you are running a multi million pound business, there should have been options in place if there were a need to sack the manager. It goes completely against what McNally said in his interview at a later date, that it would be negligent not to have a plan in place and not to be aware of the options.[/quote]

 

Delia paints no such picture. You paint it JF.

 

The board have been honest with the fans yet again. And yet again out come the old agendas.

 

As for Militant''s "chequered record" since Watling sold to Smith & Jones the reality is : -

 

Four PL season''s including 2 relegations.

 

7 top half championship seasons including a championship, a runners up and a play off final.

 

4 bottom half championship seasons including 1 relegation.

 

1 league one season winning the championship.

 

A youth cup win

 

Continual improvements to the stadium and training ground.

 

No administrations and now no debt.

 

That''s not enough for a lot of people. I''ll accept that. But even those who see our place as continuous members of the Premier League would surely cocede that our owners have navigated a tremendously difficult period in the game as a whole with aplomb. If not which similar club''s owners have done better?

 

 

[JF 694]

That is very much the picture she paints but yet again out come your agendas. She says they looked at changing it in January but there was no one out there. No one out there for a debt free PL team that was 2 wins away from 10th place! Really? A couple of months later McNally gives an interview saying it would be negligent of the club to now be aware of other options if needed. They contradict each other.

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

[quote user="Sussexyellow"]DM - summer signings have not worked, but Hughton did OK the previous summer[/quote]Just to expand on this, McNally backed up what he said a week ago about

how we spent a record amount of money in the summer and didn''t improve

the squad at all. What he said today was:McNally: "If you look

at the reason why we have struggled this year, in the five years we

have  worked together every summer transfer trading has improved the

football club. That cannot be said about last summer with the seven

players coming in."Radio Norfolk presenter: "Did Chris buy badly?"McNally:

"If you go back to the year before with some of the players he brought

in, in his first summer, despite the lack of time he had in joining us

in June, he did well with the money available, and he was clearly

restricted by the amount of cash he had that summer. Ironically

last summer we had more money to spend and you look back with the

benefit of hindsight and say the summer signings haven''t worked. And

they haven''t."A couple of points. Firstly, McNally is making it

plain there was no financial inevitability about relegation. On the

contrary, in what was financially the most auspicious season for staying

up out of the last three, we did worst. Finance cannot be blamed for

that. It has to come down to managerial failings, including, as McNally

outlines there, millions wasted in the summer. While our rivals were

improving, we were not.Secondly, McNally is clearly saying the

decision on whom to recommend to the board to buy was Hughton''s, based

on the global sum of money available to him. So Hughton bears prime

responsibility for the wasted millions. There is no support for the

idea, floated here occasionally, that Hughton was only one part of a

much more collegiate process of picking transfer targets.The

other point I noticed concerned the technical director job. Unless I

have missed it it hasn''t been remarked that McNally said there would now

be four-person technical board, comprising the chief executive, the

manager, the technical director, and the director of recruitment.

Possibly, in the light of the summer fiasco, that is a move towards

greater oversight of transfer dealings.

[nutty nigel 7,509]

[quote user="JF"]That is very much the picture she paints but yet again out come your agendas. She says they looked at changing it in January but there was no one out there. No one out there for a debt free PL team that was 2 wins away from 10th place! Really? A couple of months later McNally gives an interview saying it would be negligent of the club to now be aware of other options if needed. They contradict each other.[/quote]

 

What did McNally say about January?

 

 

[militantcanary 0]

Sorry Nutty its chequered and the last 3 seasons have got it to that good, I think we just need to look at the Managers appointed;

Walker 2nd time round - Indifferent

Rioch - Indifferent

Hamilton - Awful and a Binner to boot

Worthington - Good

Grant - Awful

Roeder - Pretty Awful

Gunn - Awful

Lambert - Excellent but probably not her appointment

Hughton - Ok at best

Aplomb is not an adjective I would use to describe the whole tenure, some great bits, some crap bits and a lot in between meandering would be nearer the mark.

They are real fans but they do need someone there with some steel and in McNally and Bowkett we are miles off old Doomy and Mumbles Munby to be fair.

The Club is in a better state in terms of infrastructure than when they came also I would freely conceed

[chicken 0]

They don''t JF.

It''s pretty clear. In January they were not happy with the results and performances but had faith that Hughton would at least limp the team over the line.

Big Mac then fired a shot across the bows publicly in a demonstration of showing that the board were as concerned as the fans and were taking stock of the situation.

Around the same time we had Hughton indicate that he doubted he would be in charge come next season.

Now, we could have gone the same direction as Cardiff and actually got worse not better had we appointed a new manager - and the issue with that is that we could have been relegated sooner - and that is what the issue was.

Hughton represented a very fine line. The only way I can think of it is a horse in 2nd place coming into the last couple of jumps. You get the opportunity to change the jockey but he doesn''t know the horse. The risk is that whilst the fresh impetus could get you over that line possibly as the winner, the adverse could also happen and the jockey and mount simply don''t gel in which case what may have been marginal before suddenly becomes horrendous.

In some ways I like the fact that they tried to give Hughton a chance to do it - and to be fair, it was close. Hopefully that sends a message out to prospective managers that we are prepared to give them a chance and won''t sack someone at the drop of a hat.

Look at the mess at West Brom . . . . how many managers? Are their players happy with that? Are their fans?

[JF 694]

I simply can''t be bothered to enter into an endless discussion with you NN. For the record though you say out come the agendas but I have never had any agenda against any of this current board and would rather have these owners over some dodgy foreign millionaire. They got it very wrong this time, let''s hope they learn from that and put it right next season.

[nutty nigel 7,509]

[quote user="JF"]I simply can''t be bothered to enter into an endless discussion with you NN. For the record though you say out come the agendas but I have never had any agenda against any of this current board and would rather have these owners over some dodgy foreign millionaire. They got it very wrong this time, let''s hope they learn from that and put it right next season.[/quote]

 

I was clearly talking about Militant''s agenda JF.

 

I pointed out the the picture you attribute to Delia is in fact your own.

 

But if you can''t be bothered then don''t be.

 

 

[nutty nigel 7,509]

[quote user="militantcanary"]Sorry Nutty its chequered and the last 3 seasons have got it to that good, I think we just need to look at the Managers appointed;

Walker 2nd time round - Indifferent

Rioch - Indifferent

Hamilton - Awful and a Binner to boot

Worthington - Good

Grant - Awful

Roeder - Pretty Awful

Gunn - Awful

Lambert - Excellent but probably not her appointment

Hughton - Ok at best

Aplomb is not an adjective I would use to describe the whole tenure, some great bits, some crap bits and a lot in between meandering would be nearer the mark.

They are real fans but they do need someone there with some steel and in McNally and Bowkett we are miles off old Doomy and Mumbles Munby to be fair.

The Club is in a better state in terms of infrastructure than when they came also I would freely conceed[/quote]

 

So the record is alright just the managers that aren''t?

 

It''s not just about the last 3 seasons Milly. Lets take it up to relegation from League One. 1998 to 2009. Which comparable owners have fared better having taken over a club at the bottom of the Championship?

 

 

[Bill 1,788]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

[quote user="militantcanary"]Sorry Nutty its chequered and the last 3 seasons have got it to that good, I think we just need to look at the Managers appointed;

Walker 2nd time round - Indifferent

Rioch - Indifferent

Hamilton - Awful and a Binner to boot

Worthington - Good

Grant - Awful

Roeder - Pretty Awful

Gunn - Awful

Lambert - Excellent but probably not her appointment

Hughton - Ok at best

Aplomb is not an adjective I would use to describe the whole tenure, some great bits, some crap bits and a lot in between meandering would be nearer the mark.

They are real fans but they do need someone there with some steel and in McNally and Bowkett we are miles off old Doomy and Mumbles Munby to be fair.

The Club is in a better state in terms of infrastructure than when they came also I would freely conceed[/quote]

 

So the record is alright just the managers that aren''t?

 

It''s not just about the last 3 seasons Milly. Lets take it up to relegation from League One. 1998 to 2009. Which comparable owners have fared better having taken over a club at the bottom of the Championship?

 

 

[/quote]the binnersin just over 6 years Evans has pretty much dismantled their youth set up, halved their attendances and slashed the number of season ticket holdershe has even freed them from all the aggro of owning their own training ground by a sleight of hand transfer to an offshore company registered in the Bahamasand if that was not enough he has tripled their £30m debt to close on £100 m !............... whilst at the same time overseen a year by year drop in incomebut at least they have avoided being in the bottom half of the Chapionship for a season or twohooray for the paupers !

[militantcanary 0]

I think we will have to agree to disagree on the record Nutty its capable of being read a no of different ways.

Its not about having an Agenda, its the Little Old Norwich Syndrome surfacing again or so it appeared.

Did anyone else think it facile to compare us against Manchester City as they did this Morning. We all know that we can''t compete against them but we can compete vs C Palace and Hull to name but two. We were no better or worse than 8 or 9 of teams round us in terms of spending and turnover but finished 7th out of the mini league of 9 or so at the bottom. No-one but an idiot would say that we can complete vs Man City but that is not the point.

We were on the cusp of transforming Norwich into an established Premier League Club which is why it is so painful to go down. I honestly think the Board thought that we were already there ie compare us to Hull who spent 11M or so in January as they were in the 1st season up compared to our paltry tinkering in the same period.

Only history will tell if it will cost us in the long run, we can either do a Wolves, a West Ham or perhaps most likely a Wigan ie be up there but not in the top 2.

As our wages will push 40M without some prunning even after the reduction after relegation it all depends on getting the biggest earners off our books. Otherwise the Parachute money will be just get swallowed...

This may be the most important season in our history

[nutty nigel 7,509]

The record is what it is and can''t be read differently Milly. It can either be classed as good enough or not good enough. That is opinion and neither can be wrong. However I''d just repeat that I''d like the owners critics to come up with comparable owners that have been more successful in guiding their clubs through this difficult period.

 

 

[Icecream Snow 761]

[quote user="militantcanary"]Sorry Nutty its chequered and the last 3 seasons have got it to that good, I think we just need to look at the Managers appointed;

Walker 2nd time round - Indifferent

Rioch - Indifferent

Hamilton - Awful and a Binner to boot

Worthington - Good

Grant - Awful

Roeder - Pretty Awful

Gunn - Awful

Lambert - Excellent but probably not her appointment

Hughton - Ok at best

Aplomb is not an adjective I would use to describe the whole tenure, some great bits, some crap bits and a lot in between meandering would be nearer the mark.

They are real fans but they do need someone there with some steel and in McNally and Bowkett we are miles off old Doomy and Mumbles Munby to be fair.

The Club is in a better state in terms of infrastructure than when they came also I would freely conceed[/quote]Walker was quality. He brought Jackson, Fleming & Iwan Roberts to the club, but had a difficult season. Iwan Roberts freely admits he had an utterly shocking first season, he was leaving in a hotel, got heavily overweight and was getting booed off the pitch.Rioch was hamstrung by Bryan Hamilton, but had an incredible pedigree for his work at Middlesborough and Bolton, which got him the Arsenal job.Roeder was ok. But was hamstrung by Peter Grant and Jim Duffy''s legacy 

[E I E I E I O 0]

Oh and with regards to the request for more noise. You might have got some if you sacked our incompetent manager and installed one that actually gave the fans a reason to make some! Like a library, it was like a morgue because we all knew what you did not!

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

The record is what it is and can''t be read differently Milly. It can either be classed as good enough or not good enough. That is opinion and neither can be wrong. However I''d just repeat that I''d like the owners critics to come up with comparable owners that have been more successful in guiding their clubs through this difficult period.

 

 

[/quote]Swansea and West Brom.As for "Playing the Norwich way"... what a load of nonsense... I have never heard the fans of this club whining about the way we play while we are winning games.  Nobody complained about Worthy when we were on the up, it was only when he started failing that the shouts about style came out.

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

[quote user="Long drives home"]Oh and with regards to the request for more noise. You might have got some if you sacked our incompetent manager and installed one that actually gave the fans a reason to make some! Like a library, it was like a morgue because we all knew what you did not![/quote]Well exactly... it is quite difficult to get too excited when you know the side is playing for a goalless draw week in week out.

[Sussexyellow 55]

[quote user="JF"]Found it very concerning that Delia implies it was them making the decisions on sacking Hughton. She says" David said to us you can either go this way and it will be a gamble or you can go that way and it will be a gamble". Looks like they are still the ones making the key decisions.[/quote]

This is how it should work JF. DM is the Chief Executive advising the board of directors. It must be for the directors ultimately to make the decision, albeit guided by the CEO''s advice.

What you could question is whether DM''s advice to the board was sound. Had he have given definitive advice one way or the other I would expect that the board would have followed it.

However, reading between the lines, what he appears to have said is its a judgment call, there are risks either way presumably balanced. Which actually is not an unreasonable assessment of the situation.

I also doubt if his risk model would have given much weight to Sunderland going on top 4 form at the end of the season. If it was in the model at all I would guess the ''likelihood'' would have been assessed as very low. Without that seemingly unlikely upturn in form we and they may just have got away with it.

[Sussexyellow 55]

Foghorn, agree on ''Playing the Norwich'' way.

Being successful must come first and foremost. If it also comes with style that is an added bonus.

[Block E Buh 0]

I thought the three of them came across quite well. Yes they''re a bit quirky and made mistakes but, their hearts are in the right place and the club is debt free and for the first time since I can remember we''ve been relegated but DONT have to sell our best players.

Not many boards would be so open with the fans, let''s see where we are in May 2015, I''m feeling positive.

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

[quote user="Sussexyellow"]

I also doubt if his risk model would have given much weight to Sunderland going on top 4 form at the end of the season.  Without that seemingly unlikely upturn in form we and they may just have got away with it.[/quote]If he risk model was based on staying up on 33 points, it is a very bad model.  As for Sunderland''s form, it is a regular occurrence that one side in and around the drop zone pulls off some great form at the end of the season.  Entirely understandable as well with teams on the beach and nerves fraying in games which still matter.

[nutty nigel 7,509]

[quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

The record is what it is and can''t be read differently Milly. It can either be classed as good enough or not good enough. That is opinion and neither can be wrong. However I''d just repeat that I''d like the owners critics to come up with comparable owners that have been more successful in guiding their clubs through this difficult period.

 

 

[/quote]Swansea and West Brom.[/quote]

 

We have comfortably out performed Swansea for the majority of Smith & Jones tenure. West Brom is a good call because they were a Championship club in 1998 albeit above us.

 

So that''s one any more Foggy? I''ll see your WBA with the binners and raise you Forest.....

 

 

[morty 0]

[quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"][quote user="Sussexyellow"]

I also doubt if his risk model would have given much weight to Sunderland going on top 4 form at the end of the season.  Without that seemingly unlikely upturn in form we and they may just have got away with it.[/quote]If he risk model was based on staying up on 33 points, it is a very bad model.  As for Sunderland''s form, it is a regular occurrence that one side in and around the drop zone pulls off some great form at the end of the season.  Entirely understandable as well with teams on the beach and nerves fraying in games which still matter.[/quote]No, sorry, but Sunderlands Lazarus style recovery is unprecedented.Even their own manager said they would need a miracle to stay up.

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

[quote user="morty"]No, sorry, but Sunderlands Lazarus style recovery is unprecedented.Even their own manager said they would need a miracle to stay up.[/quote]It really isn''t... 4 wins 1 draw 1 defeat from their last 6 games.Wigan won 7 of 9 (including 5 of their last 6) to stay up in 2011-12 including wins over Man United, Liverpool and Arsenal.Indeed Wigan won 3 drew 2 lost one in 2010-11 to stay up.  A set of results which would also have saved Sunderland this season.

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

The record is what it is and can''t be read differently Milly. It can either be classed as good enough or not good enough. That is opinion and neither can be wrong. However I''d just repeat that I''d like the owners critics to come up with comparable owners that have been more successful in guiding their clubs through this difficult period.

[/quote]Swansea and West Brom.[/quote]

 

We have comfortably out performed Swansea for the majority of Smith & Jones tenure. West Brom is a good call because they were a Championship club in 1998 albeit above us.

 

So that''s one any more Foggy? I''ll see your WBA with the binners and raise you Forest.....

 

 

[/quote]Bolton, Wigan, Leicester, perhaps even Hull now.  Swansea have through all four divisions, a massive success story.