Fans who say the players arent good enough

[The Great Mass Debater 1,076]

Consistently see fans saying, get rid of x or get rid of y - theyre not good enough. Relegation changes everything, we''re now going to be playing in a very different league where the standard is different and where we will go from being a team terrified of the opposition and their superior players, and rarely getting the ball, to probably having the lions share of possession.

 

All these players (assuming we hang onto them) will get a new lease of life in this division. Suddenly its not such a big step up for the youngsters, suddenly the attacking players will get the ball instead of chasing shadows. These players will become brilliant again, and you could argue that relegation is the best thing that could have happened for the Murphys and the Lozas of this world.

 

I think the Premier League performances of our players have no real bearing on how they will play in the league below, and it seems some fans are forgetting this very obvious point. For arguments sake, if we had the exact same squad for this season as we''ve had for the last, it will be dynamite in the Championship

[Tetteys Jig 830]

I also think we have some players that are better on the front foot as opposed to in a defensive side. We, in my opinion, didn''t have enough experience last season especially in the middle. There were no Scott Parker type players that are prepared to dig deep enough and not get overwhelmed with not having the ball too often.

Now it''s a different story, i genuinely think that we have players that are far more suited to asserting themselves on games against lesser opposition. You saw it with Redmond last night, he relished playing against a team giving him time and space to cause havoc.

Hopefully relegation can do for Murphy, Loza and Rudd etc even a tenth what it did for Andy Carroll who went from a struggling yts player to a £35m striker in about a year due to getting games.

[lake district canary 4,531]

Couldn''t disagree more.  There are reasons why the mixture of players hasn''t worked - and slow build up play and giving the ball away through bad passing will happen next season just as it has happened in the last two seasons if we keep the same players.   Time for some ruthless decisions imo, get rid of the technically challenged players, get rid of slow players who hold on to the ball too long and end up giving it away - buy in some good solid professionals who can cope with the frantic football of the championship.   People think the players will have more space??   You must be joking - the championship is possibly the most competitive league in the world - keep the same players and we will struggle imo.   You can''t turn a carthorse into a racehorse.............

[vlad666 203]

Agreed lake district canary. I think the board also realise this hence the comments about fast attacking football and dominating possession.

[The Great Mass Debater 1,076]

Have to disagree LDC. Players like Hoolahan, Pilkington, Redmond, Murphy, Olsson, Whiitaker, Martin - these players all have natural attacking instincts, and with the exception of the defenders were deployed in a way that necessitated them to curb their natural attacking instincts and play more disciplined roles which did not suit them. You can argue all day long as to whether that was the right approach, but look at someone like Redmond- when he first arrived we were on the edge of our seats every time he got the ball and he looked a genuine threat - but he was also at fault defensively for a few goals, and rounding him off as a more complete player simply blunted him. Look at Hucks, he freely admitted in his book that he never defended. In the championship we will be one of the more dominant teams, we are likely to be playing possession football rather than what we''ve had in the Premiership where we spend the majority of the game without the ball. Our current team probably didnt have the players best suited to that game. But now the game has changed. The slow-build up play was rather imposed upon them by the manager rather than a product of their natural games, and it is very unlikely this will be imposed on them in the Championship when we will likley be on the forefront rather than the backfoot.

[lake district canary 4,531]

[quote user="The Great Mass Debater"]. The slow-build up play was rather imposed upon them by the manager rather than a product of their natural games, and it is very unlikely this will be imposed on them in the Championship when we will likley be on the forefront rather than the backfoot.[/quote]

I am all for a "wind them up, stick them on the pitch and tell them to get on with it" approach - it worked for Lambert - but like it or not - and as much as I do agree that Hughton''s approach did not work well enough - you cannot blame him for Snodgrass''s holding on to the ball too long and reluctance to cross with his right foot - you can''t blame him for Hoolahan''s inabilty to use his right foot,  or Johnson''s lack of passing ability.   You can''t blame him for RVW or Hooper not scoring when the crosses and through balls were not put in from the wings early enough.

Will we be able to attack more next season?  Yes, I suspect we will and I look forward to it - but the mentality has to change and that will mean for me moving on a few.  I will be happy to be proven wrong and if we keep the same players I hope they do well, but I do fear that the same shortcomings as have been seen this season will still be there.  Basic passing ability and knowing when to deliver a cross are things that players should be able to do - and there were too many problems in that area this season.

[Indy_Bones 441]

[quote user="lake district canary"]you cannot blame him for Snodgrass''s holding on to the ball too long and reluctance to cross with his right foot - you can''t blame him for Hoolahan''s inabilty to use his right foot,  or Johnson''s lack of passing ability.   You can''t blame him for RVW or Hooper not scoring when the crosses and through balls were not put in from the wings early enough.[/quote]Actually we can...It''s the manager who picks the players, the manager who dictates the style of play and what role he wants each player to perform and the manager who needs to change things if this isn''t happening.This is one of the key areas that Hughton failed miserably in, if the wingers weren''t crossing quickly enough then he needed to tell them in no uncertain terms to do so or he''d play someone else - this didn''t happen, if Johnson kept trying balls beyond his technical ability he needed to be told to stop or he''d not be playing - this didn''t happen, if there was an issue with Wes being too one-footed, then the manager needed to express this or let him know he wouldn''t be playing - this did happen to some extent but not because of his foot ffs!Everything about our play was counter-productive to the players we had 90% of the time, attacking players were restricted, pacy players were told to slow down, defensive players were allowed to try to dictate play instead of our more technically gifted and creative players, our goal poacher strikers were consistently played as big target men despite neither being suited to the task. Everywhere you look it was f**ked up, and I''m sorry, but that IS Hughtons fault and he should be bloody ashamed of the way he ran our team into the floor...

[morty 0]

[quote user="Indy_Bones"][quote user="lake district canary"]you cannot blame him for Snodgrass''s holding on to the ball too long and reluctance to cross with his right foot - you can''t blame him for Hoolahan''s inabilty to use his right foot,  or Johnson''s lack of passing ability.   You can''t blame him for RVW or Hooper not scoring when the crosses and through balls were not put in from the wings early enough.[/quote]Actually we can...It''s the manager who picks the players, the manager who dictates the style of play and what role he wants each player to perform and the manager who needs to change things if this isn''t happening.This is one of the key areas that Hughton failed miserably in, if the wingers weren''t crossing quickly enough then he needed to tell them in no uncertain terms to do so or he''d play someone else - this didn''t happen, if Johnson kept trying balls beyond his technical ability he needed to be told to stop or he''d not be playing - this didn''t happen, if there was an issue with Wes being too one-footed, then the manager needed to express this or let him know he wouldn''t be playing - this did happen to some extent but not because of his foot ffs!Everything about our play was counter-productive to the players we had 90% of the time, attacking players were restricted, pacy players were told to slow down, defensive players were allowed to try to dictate play instead of our more technically gifted and creative players, our goal poacher strikers were consistently played as big target men despite neither being suited to the task. Everywhere you look it was f**ked up, and I''m sorry, but that IS Hughtons fault and he should be bloody ashamed of the way he ran our team into the floor...[/quote]Yes, of course the manager must take part of the blame, but so must the players. Russel Martin himself said that.

[The Great Mass Debater 1,076]

Think Indy has put it very well. Whilst I agree with you to some extent LDC about players abilities, some things are a product of the manager. Snodgrass'' natural playing style is the slow ball hogging crab like football we''ve come to know - yet he was always the first name on the teamsheet for Hughton - who clearly saw nothing wrong with this and perhaps actively encouraged it. Players roles are set by the manager, and the player on an individual level probably has a very clear choice which might go something like this:

 

''The manager has told me to stick to my position. I want to go roaming up the touchline, I want to break at pace into the space, I want to play that early ball, but thats not the team plan and the boss is the boss. If I dont follow my instructions I am being unprofessional, I am undermining the gameplan and I am undermining the managers authority. Not only is this disrespectful, but Im also probably going to find myself out of the team pretty quickly. Best do what the boss says''

 

Players cant play beyond their limitations, so as you say, passing is not one of BJ''s strengths and he probably wont ever improve this, but a manager can instruct him to play simple passes, distribute to a playmaker rather than be that playmaker himself, which we''ve seen him do with Fer, Hoolahan and before him Fox, and whilst he''s at it, tell him not to shoot from 40 yards - and if he keeps doing the things that weaken his game through inability coach him, or through inability to follow instructions drop him

 

 

In Snoddy''s defence also I might add that he actually tries to cross it with his right foot quite often, something that was noticeable at the end of his first season with us and something he had obviously tried to develop in his game.

[Tetteys Jig 830]

Snodgrass didn''t win POTS in the championship by not being suitably talented for the league, same goes for a lot of players mentioned as key to being kept.

I think while there will be maybe stronger physical players at that level, there will be a lot more time on the ball as the main difference is the lack of pace. If we can supplement the talented players with one or two strong lads at centre back and up front, they should do well in the Championship.

[sgncfc 1,221]

Technically superior players will win matches because they play better and more consistently. It has little to do with pace or space - better players don''t need space. Players like Hoolahan (no pace) will perform in any league; players like Redmond will skin anyone for pace in any league but the difference is then what he does with the ball. (note the comparison with Sterling''s development over the last season by playing with better players)

That''s why PL teams usually beat Champs teams in Cup competitions - there are always "shocks" but 9 times out of 10 a PL team will win.

If you transpose an entire PL team into the Champs it is inevitable that they will finish at least in the top 6. Look at Wigan as the most recent example - they lost only one or two players and had a Europa campaign.

If we hold on to our current players we will finish in the top 6. So will Fulham, unfortunately. Wigan will still be strong as will Cardiff.

The top 2 next season will come from those 4 clubs, and QPR if they don''t go up through the playoff final.

I wouldn''t sell anybody, personally. I''d just add a couple of the youngsters in to give a bit of passion.

[Guest]

I am reticent to join the we will be one of the better and stronger teams in the Championship lobbies.

I expect us to be in the top six from the off but that is not a totally confident expectation.

People are saying, and expecting, our defence to be better at a lower level and that is a natural assumption.

But I do feel that was one of the poorest and weakest defences we have had for a long time. And it was constantly propped up last season by the midfield, not only the two holding players, but many times during a match by the whole five in midfield.

Teams that have done well in the Championship recently have had strikers with the ability to hurt defences. I don''t know how our current defenders will cope when, because of the promise of more attacking next season, thank goodness, they will be more exposed despite being against in theory inferior players.

It is true, above all, that an injection of pace is needed. Luckily it isn''t my job to go out and find these guys but I hope the new manager who, from the board''s radio interview will still be hiring and firing players, is going to look at which I believe is the weakest area of the squad.

[The Great Mass Debater 1,076]

You could argue that the defence will be under less pressure probably this season. In the Premiership, our defence was always rather worked, perhaps apart from the golden few months (defensively) at the start of Hughtons time with us, when Bassong was easily the best centre-back Iv ever seen play for us, Turner had shaken off his initial poor start and was looking commanding, and it looked like no team would ever breach us.

 

When you sit deep and defend deep, have no possession and no outlet when you win the ball, the defence gets overworked and eventually breached. If we are going to be controlling the possession in a lot of games this season, I expect our defence to far more assured and organized with less to do

[nutty nigel 7,506]

I would say the team isn''t good enough. The players being good enough or not is rather a moot point if they can''t be moulded into a good team. We shall see...

[Yellow Wal 314]

sgncfc wrote the following post at 20/05/2014 1:03 PM:

Technically superior players will win matches because they play better and more consistently. It has little to do with pace or space - better players don''t need space. Players like Hoolahan (no pace) will perform in any league; players like Redmond will skin anyone for pace in any league but the difference is then what he does with the ball. (note the comparison with Sterling''s development over the last season by playing with better players)

That''s why PL teams usually beat Champs teams in Cup competitions - there are always "shocks" but 9 times out of 10 a PL team will win.

If you transpose an entire PL team into the Champs it is inevitable that they will finish at least in the top 6. Look at Wigan as the most recent example - they lost only one or two players and had a Europa campaign.

If we hold on to our current players we will finish in the top 6. So will Fulham, unfortunately. Wigan will still be strong as will Cardiff.

The top 2 next season will come from those 4 clubs, and QPR if they don''t go up through the playoff final.

I wouldn''t sell anybody, personally. I''d just add a couple of the youngsters in to give a bit of passion.

Without realising it you have highlighted exactly what does matter in any league, in any team.

"If you transpose an entire PL team into the Champs it is inevitable that they will finish at least in the top 6. Look at Wigan as the most recent example - they lost only one or two players and had a Europa campaign."

Yes, and they also had a manager who could not get the best out of those players in the early part of their season. He was sacked and Rosler took over in December last year.

At the time Rosler took over Wigan were looking anything but a team full of ''Technically superior players''. It was only when the change of manager happened that those players started to perform at a level that they should.

I am hoping the same will happen here. It didn''t happen last season and will only happen this season with the right leadership and the man in charge getting the best out of those players.

I believe, as I always have, that we have good players at the club. All I want to see is somebody who can motivate them enough to play the football the supporters yearn for and get the points that they are capable of.

My goodness, the right managerial appointment is so important!

[Bill 1,788]

[quote user="lake district canary"]Couldn''t disagree more.  There are reasons why the mixture of players hasn''t worked - and slow build up play and giving the ball away through bad passing will happen next season just as it has happened in the last two seasons if we keep the same players.   Time for some ruthless decisions imo, get rid of the technically challenged players, get rid of slow players who hold on to the ball too long and end up giving it away - buy in some good solid professionals who can cope with the frantic football of the championship.   People think the players will have more space??   You must be joking - the championship is possibly the most competitive league in the world - keep the same players and we will struggle imo.   You can''t turn a carthorse into a racehorse.............

[/quote]nonsensethe reason players gave away the ball was because of the crippling sh ite football Hughton had them playingwhen you have the ball there should be at least two players giving you an option to pass to, under Hughton players were constrained into playing some absurd ''zonal'' play which was easily dealt with by the oppositionread Redman''s comments from last night and grasp what the difference will be when players are able to play as they know best ie adapting to the fast movement of the game

[jaemae2 0]

[quote user="sgncfc"]Technically superior players will win matches because they play better and more consistently. It has little to do with pace or space - better players don''t need space. Players like Hoolahan (no pace) will perform in any league; players like Redmond will skin anyone for pace in any league but the difference is then what he does with the ball. (note the comparison with Sterling''s development over the last season by playing with better players)

That''s why PL teams usually beat Champs teams in Cup competitions - there are always "shocks" but 9 times out of 10 a PL team will win.

If you transpose an entire PL team into the Champs it is inevitable that they will finish at least in the top 6. Look at Wigan as the most recent example - they lost only one or two players and had a Europa campaign.

If we hold on to our current players we will finish in the top 6. So will Fulham, unfortunately. Wigan will still be strong as will Cardiff.

The top 2 next season will come from those 4 clubs, and QPR if they don''t go up through the playoff final.

I wouldn''t sell anybody, personally. I''d just add a couple of the youngsters in to give a bit of passion.[/quote]

I needed a luagh...

[smooth 114]

The players were playing in a league where most teams came here had players worth the transfer fees of our own players.

Many of our players have reached their peak, they have not moved on to the next level etc. I have thought many would not make the first 11''s of championship teams in the top 6. It has been due to the run with lambert, an ethos that got us up, we stayed up on merit first year but crawled over, thank god teams like Blackburn and wolves had off field troubles... Wigan had too many games etc. we were that team this year, not good enough but did not act quickly to get a manager in and to bring in better players in January. We we''re short of first 11 quality following the summer, with only Olsson, fer, rvw and hooper bringing improvements in, we needed more players.

We may have a team for the championship but with our cash we have to not be prudent we need driven quality that can improve our defence, midfield and wide players.

[lake district canary 4,531]

[quote user="City1st"][quote user="lake district canary"]Couldn''t disagree more.  There are reasons why the mixture of players hasn''t worked - and slow build up play and giving the ball away through bad passing will happen next season just as it has happened in the last two seasons if we keep the same players.   Time for some ruthless decisions imo, get rid of the technically challenged players, get rid of slow players who hold on to the ball too long and end up giving it away - buy in some good solid professionals who can cope with the frantic football of the championship.   People think the players will have more space??   You must be joking - the championship is possibly the most competitive league in the world - keep the same players and we will struggle imo.   You can''t turn a carthorse into a racehorse.............[/quote]nonsensethe reason players gave away the ball was because of the crippling sh ite football Hughton had them playingwhen you have the ball there should be at least two players giving you an option to pass to, under Hughton players were constrained into playing some absurd ''zonal'' play which was easily dealt with by the oppositionread Redman''s comments from last night and grasp what the difference will be when players are able to play as they know best ie adapting to the fast movement of the game[/quote]

Oh dear.  The old argument.  Redmond was playing last night against - wait for it............Wales U21''s.........not tough premiership defences. Of course he had more freedom to play last night.    Hughton''s tactics may not have been great - but when are you going to accept that players are to blame too?   You see things in simplistic black and white too often.   The combination of Hughton and the players he had was not good enough.  The players are to blame too! 

[Yellow Wal 314]

Were the Wigan players to blame for the poor performances when Owen Coyle was manager and was it then the players who turned it around when Uwe Rosler took over?

Or do you think the change of manager had anything to do with it?

After all ............ it was the same players.

[lake district canary 4,531]

[quote user="Yellow Wall"]Were the Wigan players to blame for the poor performances when Owen Coyle was manager and was it then the players who turned it around when Uwe Rosler took over?

Or do you think the change of manager had anything to do with it?

After all ............ it was the same players.[/quote]

Of course the manager has an effect.   But you look at all  the reasons why a team hasn''t performed.   The manager is part of the reason and the players are part of it too.     If in Wigan''s case it was just down to the manager - which I doubt btw - then that is fine.   My view of  our  last two seasons is that some of our players are not technically good enough - even compared to some of our teams in recent history.    The inability to pass to a team mate less than ten yards away is sometimes embarrassing to watch.  

Picture of our season - defend well, get the ball away, give the ball away defend, defend, get the ball away, give the ball away, defend defend........etc etc ad nauseam.    That midfield area has not clicked often enough in two years or been able to keep the ball long enough to do something with it.   How many times has the attack broken down through Snodgrass?   How many times did it break down through Johnson giving the ball away cheaply - or any of the others for that matter. We don''t see stats on that kind of thing. 

Some of it may be down to the manager - but some is undoubtedly down to the players too.   Keep the same players if you want, I would prefer to see a few changes.  

[Bill 1,788]

talking out of your ar se as usual LDCyou have back pedalled quite a bit to now admit that Hughton may have shared some of the blameto anyone else that fact that vitually all the players looked awful under Hughtomn yet were highly successful before plaing under him suggests that thee is one factor - Hughton, and Redman''s comments were about that, rather than the game last nightand stop making up stuff, NO ONE is asking to keep the same players and everyone is aware that changes will happen and will want changes as wellbut now the disaster that was Hughton has gone we will be able to see how those who stay will thrive

[Mr Jenkins 0]

LDC

Your comments on this thread continue to show your lack of understanding about the effect of restrictive negative tactics on the performance of professional footballers.

All our players have skill sets that are more than sufficient to enable them to play with quality at the top level, if the structure and psychological aspects of strategy and tactics are correct.

You persist in looking at mistakes of mid field players refering to poor decision making and lack of ability. The reason for this is that the structure in which they were trying to play gave them very few options. Limited movement off the ball, lack of forward momentum and a lack of confidence. These facets make players look poor, you have clearly never played the game because you do not seem to undertand what is needed to bring the best out of footballers.

All you see is poor performance without any understanding of what was causing that!

[lake district canary 4,531]

City 1st and Jenkins.  You see things in black or white all the time.  No one is blameless for our season.  Manager and players are all culpable.  You know it all types seem to think that everyone should think like you do - well, thankfully we don''t.   The manager takes the responsibility of course, but apart from that some of you have been so anti-Hughton that you  fail to take notice of what players actually do on a pitch. I''m fairly fed up with getting criticised for criticising players. If you all want to blame the manager totally - if it makes you feel better, then fine. For me, the manager proved too weak in the end, but some of the players could have done better - and some are not good enough. "City 1st - stop making up stuff, NO ONE is asking to keep the same

players and everyone is aware that changes will happen and will want

changes as well"   Well City 1st, have a read of the op again.........you know where it says about "keeping the same players"........................As for your attitude to other posters - and your Rolf Harris avatar - it stinks.  

[Mr Jenkins 0]

Why did so many players fail to perform?

Why have none of the strikers brought on been able to even get near to their previous form?

[Bill 1,788]

god you are a clueless cretin LDCyour bleats are not about the players but some fixated need to defend Hughton from criticism - a fixation that has you constantly trying to tell the rest of us that what we regularly saw actually didn''t happenas to the OP''s comments you are once again making up stuff, there is no quaote that states " "keeping the same players......"" that is just you lying againwhat was said was "All these players (assuming we hang onto them) " which is a comment based on a preposition ie if we keep them, not as you have tried to twist it

ps given that at this point Rolf Harris is not been found guilty I shall continue to use that avatar

[lake district canary 4,531]

[quote user="Jenkins"]Why did so many players fail to perform?

Why have none of the strikers brought on been able to even get near to their previous form?[/quote]

My perception of things is that the players were not good enough to play in the way Hughton wanted to and in the end the pressure just got too much for them and Hughton - hence the late change of manager.   What you could criticise is the fact that Hughton was trying to get players to play in a way that didn''t suit them - I would accept that - but the reason we were expected to play like that was to develop a way of playing that would evolve into an effective and successful strategy.   It didn''t - but despite all the wrangling and angst, we were not far off surviving and with even a little luck we could have scored goals - post hit, bar hit, great saves etc and subsequently survived to live another day in the premiership. 

Its no good just saying the players are better than they performed this season. They aren''t. They have to go out and prove they are good enough next season.  Snodgrass is still a mixed blessing - and always has been (ask Leeds fans). Johnson still gives the ball away too much - as he always has done. Hoolahan still only has one foot.  Two almost ever presents in the team this season (mainly due to the injury of E.Bennett and Tettey/Howson/Fer at different times).   These players have been good and bad for us ever since they came to us.  They are of a standard that is lower prem at best, if not championship.  If they were all good they would be playing for higher teams.   RVW has had a nightmare - but has had little supply. Hooper got some help from Fer, but Fer had too much to do on his own, without the support of classier colleagues. 

If we had done better this season, Hughton might have been able to secure a third year and upgraded more of the squad to be able to cope with the type of football he wanted to develop.   I don''t think for one minute we were supposed to be always on the back foot these last two seasons - and when we did play well we looked a really capable side - but the players have to take some responsibility - face up to why they weren''t good enough and learn from it.  Snodgrass should be coming into his prime - but he is one of the most frustrating players I have ever seen play for Norwich - and that includes Hoolahan who is more skilful than he is.   He needs to sort his game out to be more of a team player and get the ball in early sometimes - and that RVW penalty debacle was one of the most amateur things I have seen on a football field.   Johnson simply needs to tighten up his passing - keep it simple.   Other players failed to live up to their standard - Pilks, Whittaker, Hoolahan (his performance against MU in the cup in November left me fuming) - to my mind they gave in too easily to things not going well.  Fer I think struggled because of the players around him - except when Tettey was there.   Redmond lost his way a bit - but then the whole team did.  

Its not as simple as you guys make out.   Strikers not getting service was an issue - but then think about it - Redmond on one side a little inexperienced, Snodgrass holding play up on the other side, Johnson erratic with passing. Three out of your midfield five not good enough.  No wonder we struggled to score. And why were those three there all season?  Because of injuries.    Three important positions in the team inhabited by people who should have been used more sparingly.  That is why Gutierrez was brought in as cover/competition - but he then got injured.  

Players are responsible for themselves and the players this season weren''t up to the job. Players want the big salaries, but if they can''t deliver - they have to answer the critics.  If some of ours are at fault - for whatever reason - they have to learn from it and move on.  Just assuming a new manager will come in and it will suddenly all work with the same players (which is what this thread is about)  is just wishful thinking.

[Mind the gap 12]

You''ve upset ''em again LDC. The natives are getting restless. Can''t you see it was nowt to do with those poor overpaid little cherubs. They wus only doing what they wus told. These are probably the same types who were talking us up big time before the start of the season. Best squad ever assembled, and all that old malarkey. Think Europe was mentioned a few times.

Now,apparently,it''s going to be a breeze with that lot in the championship.

[Bill 1,788]

"Just assuming a new manager will come in and it will suddenly all work

with the same players (which is what this thread is about)  is just

wishful thinking. "no, it is just you making up stuff againno one stating that it will "suddenly all work", what pretty much everyone but you is acknowleging is that Hughton was the cause of our failure last season but you bleat that the players were also at fault, blithely igmoring the point of why a team has a manager !the point being made is that freed from that dire hand of failure players will flourish, againhowever it is clear that no amount of evidence or reasoned argument is going to sway you as clutching at straws you contine to twist lia and amke up stuff in Hughton''s defenceperhaps you could offer your services to my avatar, I doubt you''ll get him off but I''m sure he would appreciate someone who is prepared to defend the impossible

[littleyellowbirdie 2,504]

Our players are good enough. They''ve simply had very little to glean confidence from in their own abilities to function as a team and it affected their performances adversely. Getting off to a good start next season is absolutely vital. Bit of confidence and joie de vivre in there and I think they''ll come alive, like they really should have this season. But I firmly belief that there''s nothing fundamentally wrong with our players. Apologies for defending CH last season by the way. Always optimistic that he''d crack it eventually, but events have proven me wrong.