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Paul

Lack of experience and pulling power

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My biggest fear is that the appointment of Neil and his lack of experience could find us fall short in attracting names to the club.

We have never had the biggest pull of other teams and now with a manager of "lesser" well known manager it worries me in transfer market.

I think we will play more attractive and attacking football and we will give the kids a chance but to get out of the championship isn''t easy and we will need some experienced heads, especially if we lose 4 or 5 players like I think we will.

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[quote user="Paul"]My biggest fear is that the appointment of Neil and his lack of experience could find us fall short in attracting names to the club.

We have never had the biggest pull of other teams and now with a manager of "lesser" well known manager it worries me in transfer market.

I think we will play more attractive and attacking football and we will give the kids a chance but to get out of the championship isn''t easy and we will need some experienced heads, especially if we lose 4 or 5 players like I think we will.[/quote]Absolutely. That would be my biggest concern if I was a NCFC fan right now.Adams may well be a fantastic coach on the training field, but he has no ''name'' outside of Norfolk. Let''s face it you''re likely to have one of the best Championship transfer budgets the league will have ever seen, and to hand that to someone with zero first team managerial experience seems foolhardy in my opinion.As I''ve said in a couple of other posts - if you were an established pro and had two phone calls - one from Neil Adams and one from Mick McCarthy - you''d think they''d be far more inclined to play for Mick (yes wages would come into it for some players but on the whole you get my jist).

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ok bad choice of words, I think I clarify it later on when I mention experienced players. If we lose players from the current squad we can''t rely on youth, it will be too much of an ask and we all know how gruelling the championship is, ask the binners.

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We do have this Technical Director of DoF coming in that will be dealing with that stuff, just hoping Joe Kinnear isn''t appointed. If we got someone like Hoddle though, it could work.

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As much as it pains me to agree I said exactly the same thing regarding Adams and McCarthy to a bloke at work this morning.

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[quote user="Paul"]As much as it pains me to agree I said exactly the same thing regarding Adams and McCarthy to a bloke at work this morning.[/quote]That''s because it''s true mate. I''m not on here trolling, I just say it how it is.It feels very similar to when we appointed Jim Magilton and had all of Evans'' initial pot of cash and spunked it on no-hopers.I would be spitting feathers if I was a Norwich fan at the way your board has handed full reins of the club to a complete rookie first team manager at arguably the most critical period of your club''s modern day history. If you don''t bounce back next season you could be down here for some time again.

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Wouldn''t be surprised at a wholesale clearout this summer.

We''ll never have the money to attract top, proven players - or even excellent up & coming ones (albeit Ashton was an exception), the richest clubs will always have first choice. We ended up with expensive misfits who are less than the sum of their parts. We need to recognise & realise the talents of players off the beaten track.

Above all, we need another Grant Holt.

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How much of a factor does the managers name come into it though. I wouldn''t choose which manager to play for, id choose which club to play for. And at the end of the day, our club has much more pulling power than the majority of the championship. You may choose McCarthy over Adams, but who would really choose Ipswich over Norwich ?

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[quote user="Lynn Canary"]How much of a factor does the managers name come into it though. I wouldn''t choose which manager to play for, id choose which club to play for. And at the end of the day, our club has much more pulling power than the majority of the championship. You may choose McCarthy over Adams, but who would really choose Ipswich over Norwich ?[/quote]Of course the calibre of the manager has a bearing! In fact I''d say it has a considerable bearing. Would you choose to play for a manager who commands respect for what they''ve achieved in the game over 15 years or one with a single successful U18''s FA Youth Cup run?At the end of the day, yes, money talks... but having a reputable management team is often a big pull for players. You often hear a player say "I''ve heard great things about playing under Manager X, and I can''t wait to play for him."

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I don''t imagine Sean Dyche''s name was a particularly attractive one when it came to pulling power last Summer.

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"I''ve heard great things about playing under Manager X, and I can''t wait to play for him."

And the fact he''s upping my wages & profile doesn''t come into it at all. Oh no.

How many players have taken a wage cut or dropped a division to be with their favourite manager? Not very many I''ll warrant.

Tettey''s current pronouncements are typical of what you''d expect. Yes he loves our current manager. Yes he''d be off like a shot to a PL club. Now I rate him, & think he''s a thoroughly good egg to boot, but he''s got to put his future first. To expect anything else of a player is naive & hypocritical.

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[quote user="portman_king"][quote user="Lynn Canary"]How much of a factor does the managers name come into it though. I wouldn''t choose which manager to play for, id choose which club to play for. And at the end of the day, our club has much more pulling power than the majority of the championship. You may choose McCarthy over Adams, but who would really choose Ipswich over Norwich ?[/quote]Of course the calibre of the manager has a bearing! In fact I''d say it has a considerable bearing. Would you choose to play for a manager who commands respect for what they''ve achieved in the game over 15 years or one with a single successful U18''s FA Youth Cup run?At the end of the day, yes, money talks... but having a reputable management team is often a big pull for players. You often hear a player say "I''ve heard great things about playing under Manager X, and I can''t wait to play for him."[/quote]

Maybe some players will decide by the choice of manaer, but not every player. If a player coming from a different league or nation, had to choose between Ipswich or Norwich, Norwich would be the first choice. Dont want to burst your bubble. They make look at the managers name, but its meeting the managers that is going to help them choose. And recent history would go a long way aswell. Even with an unknown manager, Norwich would be the better choice. If a player had to choose between a club who has been in premier league for last 3 years and favourites to win the league, or the club that has been in the league for the longest, who are they going to choose ? I doubt Van Wolfswinkel or Leroy Fer had too much knowledge of Hughton, but they still joined.

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"If a player coming from a different league or nation, had to choose

between Ipswich or Norwich, Norwich would be the first choice. "

Really Lynn Canary?I doubt it.Player who doesn''t know clubs, reads how Norwich were just relegated and now have youth coach in charge because they couldn''t get anyone else.  Ably assisted by a youth coach who was sacked by the club as not good enough a decade before.Then they look at Ipswich, with ex-Ireland manager and well-traveled domestic manager Mick McCarthy, who has dragged a team from the bottom to nearly getting in the play-offs.Both say "come and play for us".Who would you choose?Exactly.  Wake up.

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paul wrote the following post at 23/05/2014 11:08 AM:

ok bad choice of words, I think I clarify it later on when I mention experienced players. If we lose players from the current squad we can''t rely on youth, it will be too much of an ask and we all know how gruelling the championship is, ask the binners.

i know what your saying Paul and I dont doubt there is an element of truth in it.

But we are now a Championship side so thats really the biggest influence on our pulling power. Neil i think will attract young quality players, particularly if they are well advised and looking for a manager that will help them develop their game, thats what i want here, not a group of foreign names that actually dont, wont, or cant perform. The greatest quality we can hope for in a side is togetherness, common purpose, a buy in to the tactics and most of all an overwhelming desire to play for the team, each other, the fans and the manager.

I fully expect us to get that and with it success.

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[quote user="ref89"]"If a player coming from a different league or nation, had to choose

between Ipswich or Norwich, Norwich would be the first choice. "

Really Lynn Canary?I doubt it.Player who doesn''t know clubs, reads how Norwich were just relegated and now have youth coach in charge because they couldn''t get anyone else.  Ably assisted by a youth coach who was sacked by the club as not good enough a decade before.Then they look at Ipswich, with ex-Ireland manager and well-traveled domestic manager Mick McCarthy, who has dragged a team from the bottom to nearly getting in the play-offs.Both say "come and play for us".Who would you choose?Exactly.  Wake up.[/quote]Agreed. I''m not gloating. I''m not even saying it''s black and white and that everyone would choose McCarthy or another experienced manager over playing for Adams, I just think word does get around the playing community that certain clubs are ''on the up'' or ''a shambles'' and with Adams in charge I don''t feel your stock is going to be particularly high.

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Let''s go back in time and look at Newcastle, they did the same thing and promoted our old friend Chris Hughton with a lack of experience, but he didn''t do too badly did he ? 

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So the player would choose a team who have been in the league linger that anyone for less money, than join a team who has had 3 seasons in the.premier league including two mid table finishes and are favourites for the league, AND will give them more money ? Maybe you need to wake up. Its the persons job. The wage will go a long way. Every player says they want to play in the premier league, and on paper we are more likely to do that. Team relegated from premier league, or a team who didnt make the play offs ? And you say i need to wake up!

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[quote user="portman_king"][quote user="Lynn Canary"]How much of a factor does the managers name come into it though. I wouldn''t choose which manager to play for, id choose which club to play for. And at the end of the day, our club has much more pulling power than the majority of the championship. You may choose McCarthy over Adams, but who would really choose Ipswich over Norwich ?[/quote]

Of course the calibre of the manager has a bearing! In fact I''d say it has a considerable bearing. Would you choose to play for a manager who commands respect for what they''ve achieved in the game over 15 years or one with a single successful U18''s FA Youth Cup run?

At the end of the day, yes, money talks... but having a reputable management team is often a big pull for players. You often hear a player say "I''ve heard great things about playing under Manager X, and I can''t wait to play for him."
[/quote]

 

It''s sad that you believe these PR statements that get trotted out when a player signs for a club, I expect you get taken in every time a player says "I want to get this club into the Premiership".

 

 

 

 

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Again I agree with Portman, the lack of experience will hurt us, and we will heavily rely on youth this season IMO, which could be too much for them over a 46 game season.

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[quote user="portman_king"]Of course the calibre of the manager has a bearing! In fact I''d say it has a considerable bearing. Would you choose to play for a manager who commands respect for what they''ve achieved in the game over 15 years or one with a single successful U18''s FA Youth Cup run?[/quote]Ridiculous argument. If Adams and McCarthy are both in for the same player there will only be one winner. Your lot won''t be able to compete financially. You even lost out on two players to the mighty Yeovil last summer so McCarthy''s reputation didn''t help much there.

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[quote user="lappinitup"][quote user="portman_king"]Of course the calibre of the manager has a bearing! In fact I''d say it has a considerable bearing. Would you choose to play for a manager who commands respect for what they''ve achieved in the game over 15 years or one with a single successful U18''s FA Youth Cup run?[/quote]Ridiculous argument. If Adams and McCarthy are both in for the same player there will only be one winner. Your lot won''t be able to compete financially. You even lost out on two players to the mighty Yeovil last summer so McCarthy''s reputation didn''t help much there. [/quote]I''m afraid I beg to differ. You will get some players go where the money is, but you do get players go where they feel they will thrive best and develop and taken under the wing of an experienced manager. Adams has no track record to speak of, so for many players it would be a step into the unknown.I don''t want it to become a McCarthy Vs Adams argument - call it Experience Vs Rookie instead.

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He''s right though you can''t look at just those to individuals v each other.

NCFC have far better financial clout and in any neutrals eyes are far more likely to end up in the PL some time soon.

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[quote user="portman_king"]I''m afraid I beg to differ. You will get some players go where the money is, but you do get players go where they feel they will thrive best and develop and taken under the wing of an experienced manager. Adams has no track record to speak of, so for many players it would be a step into the unknown.I don''t want it to become a McCarthy Vs Adams argument - call it Experience Vs Rookie instead.[/quote]Are you seriously suggesting players would turn down the offer of an extra £5k pw (especially if their wages were LESS than £5k pw) because of the manager? And also considering the life span of managers means there''s a good chance the guy they sign for won''t see the season out.

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I genuinely think Adams will turn out to be a really good manager. With a director of football the weight of transfers is removed leaving him to concentrate on being a coach, a job which I think he will excel in.

Lots of chat about him being a ''nice guy'' and the rest. First thing he did was tell the players if they don''t want to fight don''t bother, where did bassong/Jonas/becchio disappear too? He''s not afraid to make changes. I also imagine te board have had a chat with some of the squad to see how they felt about it. I imagine if they were banging on the door saying we really dislike his style they wouldn''t take him on?

I was very shocked when he was appointed considering the candidates linked. But what do you class as experience? Zola, Mackay and Lennon all have approx 4 years of managerial ''experience''. Would you say that is sufficient? Maybe, maybe not. Quite ridiculous people saying they will throw tickets back at the club purely based on that appointment. I think it''s time to look at the bigger picture. All 3 managers were out of contract, the ''cheaper option'' is the biggest load of rubbish I''ve heard. With players on tens of thousands I highly doubt the club are bothered on spending a few thousand on a manager.

Some people have already mentioned it....lambert was met with mixed opinions, and hughton was welcomed as quality?

Let''s just get behind him, think this one might work out

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[quote user="lappinitup"][quote user="portman_king"]I''m afraid I beg to differ. You will get some players go where the money is, but you do get players go where they feel they will thrive best and develop and taken under the wing of an experienced manager. Adams has no track record to speak of, so for many players it would be a step into the unknown.I don''t want it to become a McCarthy Vs Adams argument - call it Experience Vs Rookie instead.[/quote]Are you seriously suggesting players would turn down the offer of an extra £5k pw (especially if their wages were LESS than £5k pw) because of the manager? And also considering the life span of managers means there''s a good chance the guy they sign for won''t see the season out.[/quote]

Who knows what motivates players to choose one club over another? Maybe we could attract some world class players to Norwich if we promise to send them a card on their birthday?

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[quote user="The Great Wall Of Tettey"]I genuinely think Adams will turn out to be a really good manager. With a director of football the weight of transfers is removed leaving him to concentrate on being a coach, a job which I think he will excel in.

Lots of chat about him being a ''nice guy'' and the rest. First thing he did was tell the players if they don''t want to fight don''t bother, where did bassong/Jonas/becchio disappear too? He''s not afraid to make changes. I also imagine te board have had a chat with some of the squad to see how they felt about it. I imagine if they were banging on the door saying we really dislike his style they wouldn''t take him on?

I was very shocked when he was appointed considering the candidates linked. But what do you class as experience? Zola, Mackay and Lennon all have approx 4 years of managerial ''experience''. Would you say that is sufficient? Maybe, maybe not. Quite ridiculous people saying they will throw tickets back at the club purely based on that appointment. I think it''s time to look at the bigger picture. All 3 managers were out of contract, the ''cheaper option'' is the biggest load of rubbish I''ve heard. With players on tens of thousands I highly doubt the club are bothered on spending a few thousand on a manager.

Some people have already mentioned it....lambert was met with mixed opinions, and hughton was welcomed as quality?

Let''s just get behind him, think this one might work out[/quote]

Lots of excellent points Great Wall Of Tettey! Whilst I am underwhelmed about Adams, there''s no guarantee that any of those 3 managers would have done well.

And the point that they are all out of work and would all also be "The Cheap Option" is very very true!

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Any ambitious player will look at the squad with the most potential to get in to PL.

Provided we don''t lose too many over the summer, NCFC will be an attractive place to come and play football, in front of one of the bigger crowds in the Champs.

And there''s obviously the extra money they could earn with us. If it were a straight choice between us and ITFC, only a simpleton would choose the latter.

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[quote user="portman_king"][quote user="lappinitup"][quote user="portman_king"] Would you choose to play for a manager who commands respect for what they''ve achieved in the game over 15 years ?[/quote]

[/quote]

You will get some players go where the money is, but you do get players go where they feel they will thrive best and develop and taken under the wing of an experienced manager. Adams has no track record to speak of, so for many players it would be a step into the unknown.

I don''t want it to become a McCarthy Vs Adams argument
[/quote]

Of course you don''t because on that basis your argument falls flat as a pancake

Millwall - His disastrous loan signings of the grossly underachieving Russian internationals Sergei Yuran and Vassili Kulkov from Spartak Moscow, who each received a £150,000 signing-on fee and were being paid five times the wage of the rest of the first team, would later be cited as one of the main reasons Millwall were eventually relegated

 

Ireland - Criticism of McCarthy in the media became increasingly intense after a poor start to Ireland''s qualifying campaign for Euro 2004. In particular, his persistence with several players and tactics that some perceived to be inadequate did him damage

 

Sunderland - After a poor season and with the club 16 points from safety with only 10 games remaining, he was dismissed.

 

Wolves -  it seemed inevitable when McCarthy was sacked as Wolves manager on 13 February 2012] after a run of poor results, including a 5–1 home defeat to local rivals West Bromwich Albion

 

Ipswich - McCarthy''s first full season in charge of Ipswich ensured 9th place

 

How could Adams compete with that 15 year track record of success?

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