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Iwans Big Toe

Snodgrass

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[quote user="lake district canary"]    I saw nine matches live, eight of which had Snodgrass in the team - and he was both good and bad in every game, sometimes embarrassingly bad.  The rest of the games, apart from two, I saw live online - which whether you like it or not showed Snodgrass up as being the same, both good and bad.  If he is the best we have got, then it shows that our squad/team was not up to the task.  

[/quote]I think that you have essentially called it right there LDC. But your comments need a bit more depth. Snodders was hopelessly inconsistent last season (and the one before). When he was good, he was excellent. When he was bad he was rubbish. Like a lot (the vast majority) of the squad . But with RS it was more polarised. Frankly a lot of that was down to Hughton''s mismanagement, though I guess you''ll disagree with me on that . Interesting that you speculate that that the squad was ''not up to the task'' . All I''d say to that is why did you  stoically defend the architect of that squad for so long ?!Unless there is a PL manager out there who is confident that he can harness RS''s strengths, and up the percentage of his good days considerably, then I''m not altogether convinced that there will be any top club who will be prepared to take a punt on him. Maybe one of the lower echelon PL sides, but certainly not anyone major.Which neatly brings us back to Mr Neil Adams. Do you think that he is indeed to man to play to/bring out Snodders'' strengths.? If that''s the case then , just maybe, RS staying at Norwich could end up being a win:win situation.

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I really think it is up to Snodgrass himself. Players have to be able to assess their own strengths and weaknesses. Managers are less dictatorial than they used to be and have less influence than we often like to think. It is up to him to see where he could improve. If he stays imo we will get the same kind of performances from him under Adams as Warnock and Hughton. My only hope is that Snodgrass is intelligent enough to learn how to improve - imo he has a long way to go. One of the reasons I watch sport is to spot the players that show that willingness to improve and if necessary change their game to make it happen. Snodgrass, as yet, to me still looks as if he has some reassessing to do about his contribution to a game in terms of quality and timing of his deliveries from out wide. I definitely don''t want to see a season shere everything seems to revolve around him, whether it is good or bad. If he stays he has to do better.

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You are right up to a point, LDC, but, if you take what you say to its logical conclusion, what is the point of coaches  ?!  Why is it that certain players do well under one manager, but not another ? As I said in my earlier post, is it not just possible that some of RS''s failings last season were down to Hughton''s mismanagement ?Of course, in the end it''s down to the player to improve his game, but if NA uses him in a different role, and coaches him better than Hughton did (not difficult !!) we may see a very different player. On the other hand, he may just see that the only way to get better is to get the hell out of Norfolk !

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[quote user="lake district canary"]I definitely don''t want to see a season shere everything seems to revolve around him...[/quote]With no streams you won''t......

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[quote user="lappinitup"][quote user="lake district canary"]I definitely don''t want to see a season shere everything seems to revolve around him...[/quote]With no streams you won''t......[/quote]

[:D]

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lake district canary - I definitely don''t want to see a season shere everything seems to revolve around him...

Lappinitup - With no streams you won''t........

Oh I don''t know.......I should on rough calculation be able to make at least six visits to CR, with at least ten of the more northerly away games, plus the odd game further south, which is roughly what I did in 2009 and 2010. We''ll see, but that, plus the odd tv game should give me a good idea of how we are doing........

If not there''s always Ricardo.....

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"ROBERT Snodgrass last night pipped Ikechi Anya, Scott Brown and Steven Naismith to the Scottish Football Writers'' Assocation Scotland International Player of the Year award then set his sights on beating England when they visit Glasgow in November."

So, that''s more football people recognising how good a player he is.

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Hogesar - "ROBERT Snodgrass last night pipped Ikechi Anya, Scott Brown and Steven Naismith to the Scottish Football Writers'' Assocation Scotland International Player of the Year award then set his sights on beating England when they visit Glasgow in November."So, that''s more football people recognising how good a player he is."

And as has been said several times - it''s all relative.......where are Scotland in the world rankings?

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Eriksen, Ibrahimovic, Dzeko, Alaba, Matic all play for countries rabked lower than Scotland so that proves nothing.

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He Scored Against The Scum, He Scored Another 1Eriksen, Ibrahimovic, Dzeko, Alaba, Matic all play for countries rabked lower than Scotland so that proves nothing."

It really proves nothing either way. Its an achievement, but not one that changes his inconsistency week in week out playing for Norwich. Wasting opportunities to create something for others to score in an attempt to score himself all the time is not going to endear him to everyone.

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[quote user="morty"]Sorry, but I really am not getting the "logic" that states that Snodgrass is one of the main reasons we got relegated.Not scoring enough goals, not winning enough games and scoring less points than three other teams however...[/quote]

Morty - it cannot be denied that Snodgrass slows down the flow of our attacks.

He certainly shows commitment, but his passion is often misdirected into going to ground too easily, whinging etc.

I think his negatives outweigh the positives.

Reminds me of the debate about playing Milner in the wing for England.

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[quote user="lake district canary"]He Scored Against The Scum, He Scored Another 1Eriksen, Ibrahimovic, Dzeko, Alaba, Matic all play for countries rabked lower than Scotland so that proves nothing."

It really proves nothing either way. Its an achievement, but not one that changes his inconsistency week in week out playing for Norwich. Wasting opportunities to create something for others to score in an attempt to score himself all the time is not going to endear him to everyone.[/quote]

Well said.

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[quote user="lake district canary"]not one that changes his inconsistency week in week out playing for Norwich. Wasting opportunities to create something for others to score in an attempt to score himself all the time is not going to endear him to everyone.[/quote]Why couldn''t your man Hughton see all the things you could see LDC? Perhaps it would have been better if he''d watched the games on a stream! [;)]Or are you finally saying Hughton got it wrong?  I''m confused now, all the time you told us he was the right man yet believing he was playing the wrong players. How does that work? [^o)]

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[quote user="hogesar"]Re him being a ''Bad Apple''. No one has worked harder in the team this season. Whether it''s for his own reasons or for the teams - his work rate can''t be questioned so i''m really unsure as to how he can be a bad apple.

And hilariously, you''d rather have 11 average footballers than 11 of one of the worlds top footballers? Bizarre.

Anyway, LDC - I''ll take a hit and agree with you that too much revolved around him last season. But why was that? Tactical instruction maybe? That can''t be proved - but if it wasn''t instruction then it was our own players realising that the best chance of producing something was by giving it to Snodgrass. Even if you don''t buy that - the reason he got the ball so often must be, at the very least, that he made himself available. Something so few players done last season.

I don''t think he''s the worlds greatest player but I do think he was one of, if not our best player last season - in a poor season.

My issue is a select few of you on here sit here and criticise him - and whilst he isn''t exempt from it he should be one of the last players getting criticised.

What should be looked at is our hugely ineffective Central Midfield with a massive inability of retaining possession. OR the individual mistakes of CB''s resulting in conceding goals. Or maybe the likes of RVW hugely underperforming.

It is absolutely bizarre to me that some on here WANT our POTS for last season, in the PREMIER LEAGUE to leave because `he restricts the team` or `he''s too slow`. I might well come across as quite arrogant about the topic but it''s purely down to my absolute disbelief that anyone who watches football and has done for more than 6 months - doesn''t recognise that Snodgrass is one of the last players from the previous season that should be up for criticism.[/quote]I''ll colour code the response to this.The motivation behind his "work rate" is very important. If he is banging on all day every day at training that he is the only one working hardest for the team, the only one who cares and the one player with ability to unlock opposition defences he is more likely to upset than motivate his team mates. Attitude in a team that is important, you can have 11 players that all work hard, but if they are all working hard for themselves then they are not a team, just a collection of individuals looking to further their own careers who couldn''t really care less about their team mates. This seems to me, from watching City this season, to be the Snodgrass atitude.It appears that on this point even Dave Stringer seems to agree with me. And I quote  "What I’ve seen is that individually they have the players but it

is about playing in a way that suits them and getting the balance right

in the team"
Obviously Dave doesn''t know

what he is talking about either and he should have consulted yourself

before speaking to the press. After all what can a man who has helped

his club to a 4th place league finish and 2 FA Cup semi-finals possibly know about managing a football team?I would suggest that this is because he tried to make himself the focal point of the team.NEXT!

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Scotland''s POTS and Norwich POTS. Top scorer for us. Top scorer in Scotland''s World Cup qualification. I don''t understand the negativity.

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]Scotland''s POTS and Norwich POTS. Top scorer for us. Top scorer in Scotland''s World Cup qualification. I don''t understand the negativity.[/quote]Because winning last seasons POTS for us and Scotland is like saying he was the best looking bloke at a gurning competition. [;)]

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The most important member of our squad who would pull up trees in the Championship. It would just help if we had a target man to aim at. Given we need four points every two games on average one would hope that we''ll play football utilising a target man plus Hooper next season.

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[quote user="lappinitup"][quote user="lake district canary"]not one that changes his inconsistency week in week out playing for Norwich. Wasting opportunities to create something for others to score in an attempt to score himself all the time is not going to endear him to everyone.[/quote]Why couldn''t your man Hughton see all the things you could see LDC? Perhaps it would have been better if he''d watched the games on a stream! [;)]Or are you finally saying Hughton got it wrong?  I''m confused now, all the time you told us he was the right man yet believing he was playing the wrong players. How does that work? [^o)][/quote]Seeing nutty''s post and then remembering Lambert wanted Snoddy before Hughton bought him makes your opinion of him even more odd.

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That statement is everything i dont like about modern day fans. The Barry Butler is prestigious in good seasons and bad.

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It was the same with Snodgrass as it was for Lee Croft when he won it Nigel, both were the best of a bad bunch. Did we miss Croft the following season? No. Has Croft done anything of note since his departure? No. Were we better off without him? Yes. I feel that it is the same with Snodgrass, which is just an opinion.Also, let''s not forget that Snodgrass didn''t actually win the fan''s vote for player of the season because of the protest vote for Carlo Nash. The BOARD gave it too him because he came second in the poll and they couldn''t give it to Nash as he hadn''t played a game, which makes a bit of a mockery (both by the fans who voted, of which I was not one, and the board who didn''t give it to the actual winner). These are the people who are cheapening our POTS award, not an observation that Snodgrass was the least worst of our players this season.

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Lee Croft still deserved it but it''s hardly the same. Snoddy top scored for us in the PL. He was our highest rated player for two seasons in the PL. And as I said he was also an international footballer of the year for Scotland for whom he scored twice is qualification for this years world cup.

Lee Croft scored a goal against Ipswich.

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The thing is my view on Snodgrass is quite biased Nigel. It all has to do with the penalty incident with RVW. Now we can never know for certain, but my opinion is that if RVW had of taken that penalty he would have probably scored it. This would have led to at least 2 more points for us that season and who knows may be we could have avoided relegation with RVW scoring a few more goals. I think that that one incident was key to our whole season. I think that the display of petulance by Snodgrass in that one moment of time was the largest contributing factor to us getting relegated. It displayed that the squad were not unified, that the team did not come first, that it was about individual glory. This is my problem with Snodgrass, he may work hard, but it is only for himself that he works hard and not for the team as so many seem to think. It is for that reason and that reason alone that I would sell him on as soon as I could.

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[quote user="lappinitup"][quote user="lappinitup"][quote user="lake district canary"]not one that changes his inconsistency week in week out playing for Norwich. Wasting opportunities to create something for others to score in an attempt to score himself all the time is not going to endear him to everyone.[/quote]Why couldn''t your man Hughton see all the things you could see LDC? Perhaps it would have been better if he''d watched the games on a stream! [;)]Or are you finally saying Hughton got it wrong?  I''m confused now, all the time you told us he was the right man yet believing he was playing the wrong players. How does that work? [^o)][/quote]Seeing nutty''s post and then remembering Lambert wanted Snoddy before Hughton bought him makes your opinion of him even more odd.[/quote]

It seems to me as if people just want to see a simplistic view of things.   Hughton was the manager and paid the penalty for failing to get the team to gel.  But the players are responsible too and they had to play as a team - and Snodgrass to all intents and purposes is the hub of the team because he demands the ball is always available - but what does he do when he gets it??    Its laudable to be the kind of player that stands up to be counted, but if what he does when he gets the ball is fail to release it when the opportunity is there to cross early before defenders have settled - what does that say about his team play?    He scores a few but restricts the amount of chances from the right too imo, because of his failure to mix it up enough.  He did the same at Leeds too - and they voted him pots too - but were they promoted? Did they reach the playoffs? They too had a good team on paper and a supposedly decent manager.   And the goals dried up when Warnock made him captain.  

As for Hughton choosing him every week, it baffled me too when he seemed to be off form - but then you look at the injuries and the picture becomes clearer.   Our season seems to have been a sorry tale from the moment E. Bennett got injured in that first game.  No competition for Snodgrass on the right, Redmond on the left because of Pilks being off colour. 

You can blame the manager and  true -  he failed - but behind that is a story of a season that failed to live up to expectations on nearly every level, from injuries, to form, to luck, to bad decisions by players (that penalty for instance), to new players not adapting - as well as the manager not getting the team to play consistently. 

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Ah, there we go Iwan''s Big Toe.

I was going to write a comprehensive reply to your points, most of which I had issues with.

Then you admit your entire point on Snodgrass focuses around an individual penalty incident. Which explains, i must say, quite a bit.

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[quote user="hogesar"]Ah, there we go Iwan''s Big Toe.

I was going to write a comprehensive reply to your points, most of which I had issues with.

Then you admit your entire point on Snodgrass focuses around an individual penalty incident. Which explains, i must say, quite a bit.[/quote]It may explain it, but it does not invalidate any of the points that I made. If any thing it supports my view. Snodgrass'' attitude is not one of selflessly working hard for the team like, for example, Gary Holt, Bradley Johnson or even Grant Holt. He has never once given me the impression that he is a team player. All of the evidence points to the fact that he is more of a liability than a benefit. Yes he has undoubted talent as a mid to bottom-table Premier League player, but his desire to be the centre of everything, when he is not that good costs more points than he gains us from him being in the team. So for the good of the side, get rid.

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Rather than writing a huge spiel I agree with all the negative points people have posted towards Snodgrass.

I guarantee if he leaves we won''t miss him one bit. We have more than adequate wingers with pace who can take on full backs!

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Snodgrass would have been unstoppable in our Lambert team, and I for one would quite like to see Snodgrass in a Neil Adams team in the Championship where I think he would be one of the top two or three players in the division.Our chances of promotion would be severely damaged if he were to depart.

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