Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Iwans Big Toe

Snodgrass

Recommended Posts

Going to start another thread on this subject as the previous one got deleted due to the coarse and offensive nature of the OP''s posts and I think it deserves discussion. Let''s try and keep it friendly guys. [;)]

 lake district canary wrote:
 morty wrote:
I

think we should be going all out to do everything we can to keep

Snodgrass, he will be a very important player for us next season.I''d make him captain.

Totally

disagree.  I think we should do everything to move him on.   Two years

of struggling to score goals and he is one of the chief reasons why. If

you think he should be captain - look how the goals dried up at Leeds

when he was made captain there..........11 games out of 14 Leeds scored 1

goal a game or less........

Urrgghh, I actually agree with LDC!!!! I

think that Snodgrass is one of the chief reasons that we got relegated.

People often confuse his petulance and selfishness with commitment to

the team. I have played with players who display the same attitude as he

does, and whilst many of them were decent footballers, their attitude

always ended up permeating the team making them worse than the sum of

their parts. Ship him out, replace him with a winger with a bit of pace,

there are plenty of other players at the club that will show genuine

commitment to the cause, Russell Martin and Bradley Johnson for example.

As for the argument that he got the largest amount of vote for

player of the season. That doesn''t mean that everyone got that right,

it''s just a whole lotta people who are wrong.After agreeing with LDC I''m going to take a shower because I feel dirty. Embarrassed [:$]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
As I said in another thread:
Snodgrass''s scores or makes a goal around once every 3 games in the Premier League. (12 goals, 8 assists in in 67 appearances total)
Clearly that''s not good enough.
[;)]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

******* useless Scottish ****!!! Get rid. That''s better[:D]

I am actually in agreement with LDC. A good player undoubtedly but I feel that he disjointed the team.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sorry, but I really am not getting the "logic" that states that Snodgrass is one of the main reasons we got relegated.Not scoring enough goals, not winning enough games and scoring less points than three other teams however...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
There have been quite a few threads about Snodgrass and there is a definite split of opinion on him.  Whether you think he is great or not, no player is immune from criticism and although he was POTS (which to be honest isn''t saying much this season) he has been a mixed bag, sometimes playing well and sometimes playing poorly - quite often both in the same match. 

I yearn for the day when we see another Hucks, Ruel Fox, Dale Gordon, Jimmy Neighbour etc charging forward.  Every time those players got a head of steam up and went forwards with pace it brought the crowd to their feet.   Snodgrass doesn''t do that.  A winger without pace, you know he is always going to slow the play down and delay the cross.  Leeds fans told us he would frustrate the heck out if us - and he does that, pots or not.  

Actually I think Eliot Bennett could be that player next season.  We missed him as competition for Snodgrass this season and its quite mouthwatering to think we could have the pace of Redmond and Bennett on the wings next season............and their ability to track back, something that is also vital in such a competitive league.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
There''s a reason Snodgrass is in demand.

There''s a reason he got POTS here.

There''s a reason he both assisted and scored goals in the premier league.

That''s because he''s a good player. In fact, one of our better players. Maybe even our best.

That''s why Lambert was interested in him before he left.

That''s why Hughton played him in every game possible.

That''s why, even after seeing our poor season, Adams also played him.

Because LDC who is keen enough to state that none of us know better than the board because that''s their profession - is more than happy to claim he knows better than a manager he defended for 2 years straight and his successor.

His quotes, that Snodgrass is a winger without pace and therefore doesn''t bring the crowd to his feet - is a prime example of someone who''s stuck in some odd era where a good winger has to be someone who runs in a straight line to the byline. And 9/10 produces nothing - if we''re talking about Redmond.

Nevermind - we all see the game differently. Some see it wrong though (LDC).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[quote user="hogesar"]

His quotes, that Snodgrass is a winger without pace and therefore doesn''t bring the crowd to his feet - is a prime example of someone who''s stuck in some odd era where a good winger has to be someone who runs in a straight line to the byline. And 9/10 produces nothing - if we''re talking about Redmond.

Nevermind - we all see the game differently. Some see it wrong though (LDC).[/quote]

Who mentioned  "Straight to the by-line"??  Not me. All I want to see is a bit of pace and urgency to get the ball in the box before defenders have had time to settle, something that Snodgrass doesn''t do - and don''t say it is because of  the manager because he was exactly the same at Leeds.

As for your "some see it wrong though" - some people are experts and some people think they are experts.   I know which category I''d put you in and it wouldn''t be the first one. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think he is more of a problem than a solution.

You''ll never know - did the 20 goal a season heroic striker actually hold you back, because one of similar value but with different attributes would have got you 30?

Snodgrass was undoubtedly one of our most committed & able players last season, but he has the unfortunate effect of fatally slowing our counter attacks, allowing opposition defences time to regroup.

He may have more success against poorer defending next season, but I''m not convinced the benefits of having him in the side outweigh the drawbacks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I never blame Hughton for Snodgrass'' style of play - certainly not to an extent.

You don''t NEED two pacey wingers. Snodgrass doesn''t have natural pace so will not get the ball into the box as quick as Redmond.

However, having gone to every home game this season - i can assure you the delay Snodgrass did cause in getting the ball into the box once near the oppositions penalty box was because he was waiting for some bodys to actually be in the box. RVW on his own was never going to beat 2 Premier League CB''s for aerial height or strength.

The sad reality is, those who think Snodgrass is a problem are living in a dreamland whereby they overlook the real reasons to why we got relegated - and decide instead, to try and lay the blame at our statistically and factually most effective winger in the Premier League.

We purchased him because of how good he was in the Championship for Leeds and I didn''t see anyone complain about it then. Yet now we don''t need a Prem League quality winger? Some of you need to take a step back - look at our situation and realise EVERY other club in the Championship this season would love to have a Robert Snodgrass in their squad. A hard worker with end product. Absolute no brainer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The problem with Snodgrass isn''t a lack of pace, crossing ability or anything technical nor is it an issue in terms of attitude and commitment towards the team. The problem with Snodgrass is that he likes to be involved too much for his own good and for the good of the team. I can''t blame him, under Hughton he was really the only player that was constantly available for an outball and the only player who offered significant off-the-ball movement, he was usually the only player available to the man on the ball so it was only natural that he would tend to dominate the game.
Snodgrass also suffers from what I like to call ''Steven Gerrard syndrome'' which is an irrational thought that he needs to do everything himself in order for the team to be successful. Gerrard was much the same and continues to show flashes of it now, he seems to think that he is the only one capable of dragging the team on, of scoring or providing the goals. Whilst it is great to see such determination in a player who wants to try and drag the team to victory by himself, it often leads to imbalances in the team which can make attacks predictable and far easier to read.
But is that Snodgrass'' fault? Is it his fault that when he demands involvement, other player meekly comply rather than stake their own claim in the attacking process? Is it his fault that the manager failed to reign in some of his more destructive habits to help bring greater balance to the team?
People seem to blame Snodgrass for the things that have made him so successful and which it is only natural he would wish to keep doing in order to be successful. Surely it''s the manager who must tell him to stop thinking that he is the only player able to do things correctly and to remind him that there are other players on the pitch who are just as capable of helping the attack as he? Surely it''s up to other players to stand up to him, to tell him that they can contribute just as much as he can and that he doesn''t have to do everything himself?
It''s only natural that Snodgrass would continue to play in such a way that comes so naturally to him and it''s unfair to criticise him (and only him) for our imbalances in the attack (particularly as he contributes so much in that regard) when other players and the manager are just as much to blame.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="hogesar"]

We purchased him because of how good he was in the Championship for Leeds and I didn''t see anyone complain about it then. Yet now we don''t need a Prem League quality winger? Some of you need to take a step back - look at our situation and realise EVERY other club in the Championship this season would love to have a Robert Snodgrass in their squad. A hard worker with end product. Absolute no brainer.[/quote]

At the time of the prolonged saga of us buying Snodgrass - when it was first suggested, I was very enthusiastic, but as time wore on and I found more out about him and his style of play, I actually hoped we wouldn''t buy him in the end.   For me it is more about what he doesn''t do than what he does do, in other words, he spurns opportunities to create things for other players in pursuit of his own play.   You say he didn''t have players running in to the box - I say that is untrue. I have lost count of the times he has had players in the box, waiting, waiting, waiting.........  

Your assessment of him? "A hard worker with end product."  That will always keep him in a job, but given the quality of some of our past wing players, I would say we could do better.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Interesting aside, under Hughton the balance of attack (i.e. what side we attacked down) looked like this:
Right: 41%
Middle: 28%
Left: 31%
Under Adams, it looked like this:
Right: 37%
Middle: 29%
Left: 34%
Whilst we have to remember certain other factors (we played a diamond midfield in 2 of Adams'' five games and 5 games is nowhere near completely representative of a full season) it suggests that Adams is more than aware of the imbalance that allowing Snodgrass free reign can bring and is trying to bring more balance (and thus, more variety) to the attacks. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Whilst I agree with many of the posts that Snodgrass is a very good player and has contributed to a majority of the chances created over the last two seasons, that was not entirely the point that I was trying to make. Ron Obvious kind of got it when he said that Snodgrass is more of a problem than a solution. But it''s not anything to do with his natural ability as a footballer, it''s to do with his personality. He strikes me as the kind of player that thinks he is the best at the club and the other players are there to make him look good. In many of the games i saw this season (which admittedly were fewer than I would have liked due to me being out of the country for 2/3s of it) I watched him lambasting his fellow team-mates because they weren''t fulifilling this role. The penalty incident with RVW just about sums his attitude up. It came across as "I don''t care what anyone says, including the manager, I''m taking this penalty as I''m the best player for the job and you can''t be trusted". Now admittedly I would have still had a problem with that kind of attitude had he of scored that spot kick, but he didn''t, and that makes his attitude all the worse. Thinking that he is the man for the job when he''s not.Individuals with delusions of grandure are not conducive to producing a team that will run into brick walls for each other. And make no mistake, if Norwich City is to become a top flight football team again that is exactly the kind of attitude that we will have to have running through the squad. So I don''t care if Snodgrass had just been voted our greatest ever indivdual player, having created and scored more goals that Hucks, Iwan and Ruel combined, football is a team sport and he has given me the distinct impression that he believes the team is their for the sole reason of making him look good. For this reason, and this reason alone, I would ship him out to the first team that comes knocking with a £5m or more offer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I must miss all that because I''ve seen nothing to suggest Snoddy is anything but a top team player and was probably the most popular player at the open day where he was a big hit with the kids. For two seasons running he''s been top canary on who scored.com. But it''s each to their own as he splits opinion on here. As long as that doesn''t in luxe associated insults it makes for good discussion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I can defintley promise no insults Nigel. I will never compare anyone on this message board to male or female genitalia. Nor will I question their parentage or ask them to go forth and multiply. The odd snide or sarcastic comment though, that may slip through. [;)]You may be right, Snodgrass may be a team player, he may be very popular, I may have it all wrong and he may be the key to our success in this division next season. I don''t know what goes on in the dressing room or around Colney on a day to day basis. All I can do is form an opinion on what I see, much the same as everyone who posts on here, and sadly what I have seen of him this season has led me to the opinion that I have just posted.Of course the thing about opinions is that everyone has one and most of them are wrong. Nothing would please me more than Snoddy proving me wrong next season and leading the team selflessly to promotion. But it is very difficult for me to imagine after what I have seen of him so far.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I didn''t think you would buddy its just im a bit peed off with a couple on here who believe that snoddys popularity is a reflection of norfolk interlect!

Snoddy really splits opinion and not just on here! There were some around me who booed when he was announced as POTS. Another is Bradley Johnson who''s been terrific for us for the whole time we were in the prem. but if his qualities don''t float your boat you won''t rate him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
I don''t know about you lot but Snoddy splits my own opinion, he can excite you for half a game and then frustrate you for the other half. He has a little streak of selfishness that can on occasions get the better of him (the infamous penalty being the worst) but also work out in his favour but the bottom line for me is that he would be a loss to the squad if he were to leave and I hope they fight to keep him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Snodgrass''s assist tally can only be looked at on account players would actually score chances he created. Therefore as we scored bugger all last season that stat is a bit screwed. I do think we under value how good Snoddy is at carrying and keeping the ball. He covers a lot of ground. I think he could be our player of the season next year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
My god.... Some people are deluded on here!! How can anyone be saying Snodgrass is one of the reason we got relegated?!

He was our stand out performer alongside Olsson. Given the chance I bet at least 10 premiership clubs would want him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Exactly Hazza.

Thankfully however, those that know football, the majority of our fans - who have watched the majority of our games live - voted him POTS. Of course, the majority can be wrong. In this instance, I don''t think they are.

The reality is - he will always split opinion if people are still going back to players like Huckerby for comparison (LDC). He''s not as good as Huckerby. But he''s still a key player - and you don''t need pace to be the most effective player in the current squad.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="hogesar"]Exactly Hazza.

Thankfully however, those that know football, the majority of our fans - who have watched the majority of our games live - voted him POTS. Of course, the majority can be wrong. In this instance, I don''t think they are.

The reality is - he will always split opinion if people are still going back to players like Huckerby for comparison (LDC). He''s not as good as Huckerby. But he''s still a key player - and you don''t need pace to be the most effective player in the current squad.[/quote]I think you will find that there are many on here that "know" football as you put it. I have personally spent 4 years at university studying it''s coaching techniques, philosophies and psychologies, I have spent 5 years coaching youth teams and 15 years playing the sport to a very decent standard. Is that enough "knowing football" for you? The one thing I have learned over that time is that one bad apple in a team can spoil it, no matter how talented they are as a footballer. I would rather have 11 average footballers out on the pitch, working hard for each other, encouraging when mistakes are made, players that will put the team firsts, than 11 players with the ability of Cristiano Ronaldo who are only interested in their own success. Sadly Snodgrass appears to me to fall into the latter category.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="hogesar"] those that know football, the majority of our fans who have watched the majority of our games live [/quote]

Oh yes, we quite often get this kind of comment from you.  The majority of fans knowing football? Imo the majority of fans know sweet fa about football - as I said, we can only comment on what we see and that is the best we can do.    I saw nine matches live, eight of which had Snodgrass in the team - and he was both good and bad in every game, sometimes embarrassingly bad.  The rest of the games, apart from two, I saw live online - which whether you like it or not showed Snodgrass up as being the same, both good and bad.  If he is the best we have got, then it shows that our squad/team was not up to the task.   Injuries, the manager, the players bought in not adapting, the players already here not performing - the whole wretched season has been hard to witness.    If people want to clutch at straws and see heroes in such a bad season, then fine, he did score a few goals after all, but in quite a few people''s view - he restricts the team as much as he makes it tick.    Too much revolves around him and he is not that good - as you say he is not a Huckerby........

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Re him being a ''Bad Apple''. No one has worked harder in the team this season. Whether it''s for his own reasons or for the teams - his work rate can''t be questioned so i''m really unsure as to how he can be a bad apple.

And hilariously, you''d rather have 11 average footballers than 11 of one of the worlds top footballers? Bizarre.

Anyway, LDC - I''ll take a hit and agree with you that too much revolved around him last season. But why was that? Tactical instruction maybe? That can''t be proved - but if it wasn''t instruction then it was our own players realising that the best chance of producing something was by giving it to Snodgrass. Even if you don''t buy that - the reason he got the ball so often must be, at the very least, that he made himself available. Something so few players done last season.

I don''t think he''s the worlds greatest player but I do think he was one of, if not our best player last season - in a poor season.

My issue is a select few of you on here sit here and criticise him - and whilst he isn''t exempt from it he should be one of the last players getting criticised.

What should be looked at is our hugely ineffective Central Midfield with a massive inability of retaining possession. OR the individual mistakes of CB''s resulting in conceding goals. Or maybe the likes of RVW hugely underperforming.

It is absolutely bizarre to me that some on here WANT our POTS for last season, in the PREMIER LEAGUE to leave because `he restricts the team` or `he''s too slow`. I might well come across as quite arrogant about the topic but it''s purely down to my absolute disbelief that anyone who watches football and has done for more than 6 months - doesn''t recognise that Snodgrass is one of the last players from the previous season that should be up for criticism.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="hogesar"]

It is absolutely bizarre to me that some on here WANT our POTS for last season, in the PREMIER LEAGUE to leave because `he restricts the team` or `he''s too slow`. I might well come across as quite arrogant about the topic but it''s purely down to my absolute disbelief that anyone who watches football and has done for more than 6 months - doesn''t recognise that Snodgrass is one of the last players from the previous season that should be up for criticism.[/quote]

The Leeds team revolved around him in  the championship and League 1...............and they were not great either, were they?   I hate knocking players and I admit that it was the manager''s job to get the players working at their best - at which he failed - but players are responsible too.  Snodgrass has things to his game that are really good - but its a bit like the Hoolahan scenario - on top form, he is very good, on poor form he is a liability.   The balance of how good these so called creative players have been for us, is how much of the time they are good and how much of the time they are bad.   Imo Snodgrass lets the team down more often than he helps it.  His few goals were of course excellent - but the rest of his play was huff and puff and very few decent balls into the box.   Plenty of late, delayed dolly drop crosses in a match, but very few telling ones.  All other players can be criticised of course, but for someone who likes to be at the centre of everything that goes on in a team - imo he needs to do better.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...