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simmo_2

Are NCFC the 1st club to appoint the managers mate as Director of Football.

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[quote user="littleyellowbirdie"][quote user="Reggie Strayshun"][quote user="littleyellowbirdie"]If I knew the full list of managerial candidates who''d applied for the job, LYB, I''d be able to answer your question.

In that case, what''s the point of your question?[/quote]As I said, mine was a perfectly reasonable question. We have been led to believe that the whole gamut of possible contenders had been trawled from all over Europe, so it''s fair enough to assume that a few, at least, had some experience at PL or league level, surely , and had been available for hiring ?Yours was a specific question...ie to name a name. And I repeat, without having a full list of applicants, all I would be doing would be to draw a name out of the hat of rumoured  candidates.[/quote]Okay, Reggie, so you don''t have a preferred name, but for the sake of argument lets assume there had been a name who could bring all the skills on offer in this group of people to the table. Why would that be inherently be a better option than having a number of people with one of them in overall charge bringing all of those skills to the table as a team?[/quote]Right then, LYB.If we are going to play the game called Hypothesis....my three preferred candidates in this order;1, Pep Guardiola2, Jose Mourinho3, Jurgen Klopp.

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[quote user="Reggie Strayshun"][quote user="littleyellowbirdie"][quote user="Reggie Strayshun"][quote user="littleyellowbirdie"]
If I knew the full list of managerial candidates who''d applied for the job, LYB, I''d be able to answer your question.



In that case, what''s the point of your question?
[/quote]

As I said, mine was a perfectly reasonable question. We have been led to believe that the whole gamut of possible contenders had been trawled from all over Europe, so it''s fair enough to assume that a few, at least, had some experience at PL or league level, surely , and had been available for hiring ?

Yours was a specific question...ie to name a name. And I repeat, without having a full list of applicants, all I would be doing would be to draw a name out of the hat of rumoured  candidates.
[/quote]

Okay, Reggie, so you don''t have a preferred name, but for the sake of argument lets assume there had been a name who could bring all the skills on offer in this group of people to the table. Why would that be inherently be a better option than having a number of people with one of them in overall charge bringing all of those skills to the table as a team?
[/quote]

Right then, LYB.

If we are going to play the game called Hypothesis....my three preferred candidates in this order;

1, Pep Guardiola

2, Jose Mourinho

3, Jurgen Klopp.
[/quote]

 

Only no. 2 has any experience of the English game, the other two would need someone working with them. No. 1 have a track record of bottling it, he can''t provide a sustained period of management preferring to take time out rather than work through any issues. The third example is OK if you want a team that''s going to provide the rest of Europe with players, as soon as he gets to coach anyone who any good they prefer to go elsewhere & that''s no good if your looking for progression. 

 

 

 

 

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[quote user="TCCANARY"]

 

Only no. 2 has any experience of the English game, the other two would need someone working with them. No. 1 have a track record of bottling it, he can''t provide a sustained period of management preferring to take time out rather than work through any issues. The third example is OK if you want a team that''s going to provide the rest of Europe with players, as soon as he gets to coach anyone who any good they prefer to go elsewhere & that''s no good if your looking for progression. 

 

 

 

 

[/quote]So, I can take it then TCC , in our rather pointless game of Hypothesis, that, if by some chance, any of these 3 gentlemen applied for the manager''s role at Carrow Rd, you''d turn them away ?And yes, in his admittedly quite brief tenure at the Nou Camp, Senor Guardiola''s results were shocking, weren''t they?

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[quote user="Reggie Strayshun"][quote user="TCCANARY"]


 

Only no. 2 has any experience of the English game, the other two would need someone working with them. No. 1 have a track record of bottling it, he can''t provide a sustained period of management preferring to take time out rather than work through any issues. The third example is OK if you want a team that''s going to provide the rest of Europe with players, as soon as he gets to coach anyone who any good they prefer to go elsewhere & that''s no good if your looking for progression. 

 

 

 

 

[/quote]

So, I can take it then TCC , in our rather pointless game of Hypothesis, that, if by some chance, any of these 3 gentlemen applied for the manager''s role at Carrow Rd, you''d turn them away ?

And yes, in his admittedly quite brief tenure at the Nou Camp, Senor Guardiola''s results were shocking, weren''t they?
[/quote]

 

He didn''t do too bad considering that he was appointed to the first team managers role despite having no experience.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[quote user="TCCANARY"][quote user="Reggie Strayshun"][quote user="TCCANARY"]

 

Only no. 2 has any experience of the English game, the other two would need someone working with them. No. 1 have a track record of bottling it, he can''t provide a sustained period of management preferring to take time out rather than work through any issues. The third example is OK if you want a team that''s going to provide the rest of Europe with players, as soon as he gets to coach anyone who any good they prefer to go elsewhere & that''s no good if your looking for progression. 

 

 

 

 

[/quote]So, I can take it then TCC , in our rather pointless game of Hypothesis, that, if by some chance, any of these 3 gentlemen applied for the manager''s role at Carrow Rd, you''d turn them away ?And yes, in his admittedly quite brief tenure at the Nou Camp, Senor Guardiola''s results were shocking, weren''t they?[/quote]

 

He didn''t do too bad considering that he was appointed to the first team managers role despite having no experience.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[/quote]Fair enough, if you regard working for one of the world''s top clubs, alongside some of the world''s greatest coaches as ''having no experience''........

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Yes because having no experience means not having done the job, you can''t get experience by osmosis.

You probably didn''t realise that two out of your three choices were in the same situation as Adams is, but I''m beginning to suspect your just another one of those ''if we do it it''s bad, if they do it it''s good'' people.

 

 

 

 

 

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[quote user="TCCANARY"]

 

Yes because having no experience means not having done the job, you can''t get experience by osmosis.

You probably didn''t realise that two out of your three choices were in the same situation as Adams is, but I''m beginning to suspect your just another one of those ''if we do it it''s bad, if they do it it''s good'' people.

You can ''suspect'' what you like, mate.

TBH, the ''list ''was only flippant because I was asked to name a name from a list that no-one knows the identity of !

In answer to your first point, are you really saying that  you pick up the same good coaching habits working under class operators like Chris Hughton and Colin Calderwood as you do from also rans like Johan Cruyff, Frank Rijkaard and Jose Mourinho ?

Get real.

 

 

 

 

 

[/quote]

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Looks like Reggie can''t think of anyone who meets his criteria.

Put him on the board.......no better still make hom the technical director

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[quote user="Reggie Strayshun"][quote user="TCCANARY"]

 

Yes because having no experience means not having done the job, you can''t get experience by osmosis.

You probably didn''t realise that two out of your three choices were in the same situation as Adams is, but I''m beginning to suspect your just another one of those ''if we do it it''s bad, if they do it it''s good'' people.


You can ''suspect'' what you like, mate.


TBH, the ''list ''was only flippant because I was asked to name a name from a list that no-one knows the identity of !


In answer to your first point, are you really saying that  you pick up the same good coaching habits working under class operators like Chris Hughton and Colin Calderwood as you do from also rans like Johan Cruyff, Frank Rijkaard and Jose Mourinho ?


Get real.

 

 

 

 

 

[/quote][/quote]

 

Who he worked near is irrelevant, your problem was appointing someone with no experience and you can''t deny that you can''t get experience unless you do the job.

 

 

 

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[quote user="TCCANARY"][quote user="Reggie Strayshun"][quote user="TCCANARY"]

 

Yes because having no experience means not having done the job, you can''t get experience by osmosis.

You probably didn''t realise that two out of your three choices were in the same situation as Adams is, but I''m beginning to suspect your just another one of those ''if we do it it''s bad, if they do it it''s good'' people.

You can ''suspect'' what you like, mate.

TBH, the ''list ''was only flippant because I was asked to name a name from a list that no-one knows the identity of !

In answer to your first point, are you really saying that  you pick up the same good coaching habits working under class operators like Chris Hughton and Colin Calderwood as you do from also rans like Johan Cruyff, Frank Rijkaard and Jose Mourinho ?

Get real.

 

 

 

 

 

[/quote][/quote]

 

Who he worked near is irrelevant, your problem was appointing someone with no experience and you can''t deny that you can''t get experience unless you do the job.

 

 

 

[/quote]Well, if that''s your belief, then OK. I beg to differ.Look...no one is denying (certainly not me) that everyone , whether you are Pep Guardiola, SAF, Wenger, Paul Lambert, Chris Hughton or Neil Adams has to start somewhere .The question that many of us are asking is whether, in their current position, it is appropriate  for NCFC to appoint a guy with no experience, who has never worked under top coaches, and bring someone else in as a ''consultant'' , as opposed to an experienced operator as manager. Fair enough...you do not see it as a problem. I, on the other hand, see a number of potential pitfalls with it. Time will tell.

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[quote user="Reggie Strayshun"][quote user="TCCANARY"][quote user="Reggie Strayshun"][quote user="TCCANARY"]

 

Yes because having no experience means not having done the job, you can''t get experience by osmosis.

You probably didn''t realise that two out of your three choices were in the same situation as Adams is, but I''m beginning to suspect your just another one of those ''if we do it it''s bad, if they do it it''s good'' people.


You can ''suspect'' what you like, mate.


TBH, the ''list ''was only flippant because I was asked to name a name from a list that no-one knows the identity of !


In answer to your first point, are you really saying that  you pick up the same good coaching habits working under class operators like Chris Hughton and Colin Calderwood as you do from also rans like Johan Cruyff, Frank Rijkaard and Jose Mourinho ?


Get real.

 

 

 

 

 

[/quote][/quote]

 

Who he worked near is irrelevant, your problem was appointing someone with no experience and you can''t deny that you can''t get experience unless you do the job.

 

 

 

[/quote]

Well, if that''s your belief, then OK. I beg to differ.

Look...no one is denying (certainly not me) that everyone , whether you are Pep Guardiola, SAF, Wenger, Paul Lambert, Chris Hughton or Neil Adams has to start somewhere .

The question that many of us are asking is whether, in their current position, it is appropriate  for NCFC to appoint a guy with no experience, who has never worked under top coaches, and bring someone else in as a ''consultant'' , as opposed to an experienced operator as manager. Fair enough...you do not see it as a problem. I, on the other hand, see a number of potential pitfalls with it. Time will tell.
[/quote]

 

It''s not my belief, it''s a fact that the only way to get experience is to do the job, you can''t ''beg to differ'' with facts.

It''s not true to say that Adams has never worked under top coaches, as a player he''s been coached in teams that have won the 1st division title and he''s also played international football for his country.

On other posts you''ve denied being negative but the unsubstantiated evidence is that all you ever see is ''potential pitfalls'' and you also are deluded enough to think that you''re part of the ''many''.

 

 

 

 

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[quote user="simmo_2"][quote user="Rivvo"]I''ve not seen it reported anywhere that he is the Director of football, thought he was a ''football consultant''?[/quote] Split hairs then Rivvo, So where in the link does a football consultant go, Board, ?, Director of Football, ?, Manager. Also who out of the 3 who needs to consult Joe Royle about Football ?[/quote]

 

Late reply, sorry.

I wasn''t spliiting hairs as I understood that the roles are going to be filled by two different people which makes it relevant what they''re titles are, of course I may have been mislead.

As to what a football consultant does, I don''t know I didn''t appoint him, perhaps ask the board?

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[quote user="TCCANARY"]

 

It''s not my belief, it''s a fact that the only way to get experience is to do the job, you can''t ''beg to differ'' with facts.

It''s not true to say that Adams has never worked under top coaches, as a player he''s been coached in teams that have won the 1st division title and he''s also played international football for his country.

On other posts you''ve denied being negative but the unsubstantiated evidence is that all you ever see is ''potential pitfalls'' and you also are deluded enough to think that you''re part of the ''many''.

 

 

 

 

[/quote]Oh dear. Here we go. the usual response from that exclusive group on here who, once they find people questioning their views and ''facts'', the default position is to get personal....The only deluded person in this is you TCC. You say I''m going out looking for potential pitfalls.Well...... a demotivated squad , just been relegated, managed by a rookie management team with little or no experience at this level. What could possibly go wrong ??

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reggie

"The question that many of us are asking is whether, in their current position, it is appropriate for NCFC to appoint a guy with no experience, who has never worked under top coaches, and bring someone else in as a ''consultant'' , as opposed to an experienced operator as manager. Fair enough...you do not see it as a problem. I, on the other hand, see a number of potential pitfalls with it. Time will tell."

Come on Reggie, you''ve got to give a bit here. You seem determined to always flag up the down side, you''re clearly not happy but you must recognise that even from your perspective the appointment of JR is likely to be more of a plus than a minus.

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[quote user="Jenkins"]reggie

"The question that many of us are asking is whether, in their current position, it is appropriate for NCFC to appoint a guy with no experience, who has never worked under top coaches, and bring someone else in as a ''consultant'' , as opposed to an experienced operator as manager. Fair enough...you do not see it as a problem. I, on the other hand, see a number of potential pitfalls with it. Time will tell."

Come on Reggie, you''ve got to give a bit here. You seem determined to always flag up the down side, you''re clearly not happy but you must recognise that even from your perspective the appointment of JR is likely to be more of a plus than a minus.[/quote]A reasonable point, Jenks.But you rather misunderstand where I''m coming from on this.JR , under the circumstances, could be an appointment cloaked in inevitability.  What I originally said was merely, that, if experience is a key factor in the boards''s thinking, would it not, just possibly, have been wise to appoint a more experienced manager in the first place?Royle may well, as you say, bring a plus (as opposed to minus) factor to the Adams tenure, but that was not the point I was making.

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Reggie, here''s the rationale the way I see it.Adams'' advantages were:Evident talent from the FA Youth Cup win.Made a pretty respectable fight of a nye on impossible task with the last five games and no prep time.First hand experience of our squad to take into the transfer window.First hand knowledge of our youth talent to potentially introduce into the squadReal desire to do the job.Adams'' sole disadvantage was lack of experience. Grantsmustache observed that Brendan Rodgers had Frank Lampard Senior as a Football Consultant/Mentor at Watford and Reading. It''s a great solution to the experience question.

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If experience was their main criteria then they would not have appointed Neil. My concern is the relationship between Neil and JR, if this is well defined and both parties understand and are happy with it then I think it could work.

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[quote user="Reggie Strayshun"][quote user="TCCANARY"]

 

It''s not my belief, it''s a fact that the only way to get experience is to do the job, you can''t ''beg to differ'' with facts.

It''s not true to say that Adams has never worked under top coaches, as a player he''s been coached in teams that have won the 1st division title and he''s also played international football for his country.

On other posts you''ve denied being negative but the unsubstantiated evidence is that all you ever see is ''potential pitfalls'' and you also are deluded enough to think that you''re part of the ''many''.

 

 

 

 

[/quote]

Oh dear. Here we go. the usual response from that exclusive group on here who, once they find people questioning their views and ''facts'', the default position is to get personal....

The only deluded person in this is you TCC. You say I''m going out looking for potential pitfalls.

Well...... a demotivated squad , just been relegated, managed by a rookie management team with little or no experience at this level. What could possibly go wrong ??
[/quote]

 

First paragraph: You can''t undo a fact by putting it in quotes, it''s still a fact and only an idiot argues against undeniable facts.

Your third paragraph just proves what is said in the second paragraph, your looking for the negative, why can''t you see that things could go well?

I hope I''ve made you a bit more self aware and the next time you post you''ll pause and try to think of something nice to say.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[quote user="TCCANARY"][quote user="Reggie Strayshun"][quote user="TCCANARY"]

 

It''s not my belief, it''s a fact that the only way to get experience is to do the job, you can''t ''beg to differ'' with facts.

It''s not true to say that Adams has never worked under top coaches, as a player he''s been coached in teams that have won the 1st division title and he''s also played international football for his country.

On other posts you''ve denied being negative but the unsubstantiated evidence is that all you ever see is ''potential pitfalls'' and you also are deluded enough to think that you''re part of the ''many''.

 

 

 

 

[/quote]Oh dear. Here we go. the usual response from that exclusive group on here who, once they find people questioning their views and ''facts'', the default position is to get personal....The only deluded person in this is you TCC. You say I''m going out looking for potential pitfalls.Well...... a demotivated squad , just been relegated, managed by a rookie management team with little or no experience at this level. What could possibly go wrong ??[/quote]

 

First paragraph: You can''t undo a fact by putting it in quotes, it''s still a fact and only an idiot argues against undeniable facts.

Your third paragraph just proves what is said in the second paragraph, your looking for the negative, why can''t you see that things could go well?

I hope I''ve made you a bit more self aware and the next time you post you''ll pause and try to think of something nice to say.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[/quote]Just because you dress something up as a fact, TC, doesn''t automatically make it one. That''s what they taught me in school, anyway.And, whilst we''re on the subject of schools, I notice in your third sentence that you''ve donned the mantle of the patronising school ma''am. Maybe that''s precisely what you are in real life, but just to be clear...it cuts no mustard on here, so best cut the ''say something nice'' stuff right out, eh ?As regards my third sentence above (the one that for some reason you have a problem with) ...''rookie management team etc''. Is any of that untrue ? If so , precisely what bit ? If you are looking for facts..there you are !

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Reggie, regarding your third sentence, asserting it is a demotivated squad is not a cast iron fact, it''s a piece of speculation on your part. It may be true, it may not. More than one player positively expressed the opinion that they would like to Adams to get the permanent job before he was actually offered it so there is evidence that at least some of the squad is actually perfectly well motivated. What is a fact is that the club has yet to receive any transfer requests from its players nor any bids. As to rookie management team, it''s an unduly disparaging assertion, particularly when in making that assertion you''re completely ignoring the fact that Neil Adams has brought in a wealth of really impressive experience to draw on in Joe Royle.

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[quote user="Reggie Strayshun"][quote user="TCCANARY"][quote user="Reggie Strayshun"][quote user="TCCANARY"]

 

It''s not my belief, it''s a fact that the only way to get experience is to do the job, you can''t ''beg to differ'' with facts.

It''s not true to say that Adams has never worked under top coaches, as a player he''s been coached in teams that have won the 1st division title and he''s also played international football for his country.

On other posts you''ve denied being negative but the unsubstantiated evidence is that all you ever see is ''potential pitfalls'' and you also are deluded enough to think that you''re part of the ''many''.



 

 

 

 

[/quote]

Oh dear. Here we go. the usual response from that exclusive group on here who, once they find people questioning their views and ''facts'', the default position is to get personal....

The only deluded person in this is you TCC. You say I''m going out looking for potential pitfalls.

Well...... a demotivated squad , just been relegated, managed by a rookie management team with little or no experience at this level. What could possibly go wrong ??
[/quote]

 

First paragraph: You can''t undo a fact by putting it in quotes, it''s still a fact and only an idiot argues against undeniable facts.

Your third paragraph just proves what is said in the second paragraph, your looking for the negative, why can''t you see that things could go well?

I hope I''ve made you a bit more self aware and the next time you post you''ll pause and try to think of something nice to say.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[/quote]

Just because you dress something up as a fact, TC, doesn''t automatically make it one. That''s what they taught me in school, anyway.

And, whilst we''re on the subject of schools, I notice in your third sentence that you''ve donned the mantle of the patronising school ma''am. Maybe that''s precisely what you are in real life, but just to be clear...it cuts no mustard on here, so best cut the ''say something nice'' stuff right out, eh ?

As regards my third sentence above (the one that for some reason you have a problem with) ...''rookie management team etc''. Is any of that untrue ? If so , precisely what bit ? If you are looking for facts..there you are !
[/quote]

 

So saying that you can''t get experience without doing the job is dressing something up as a fact, you should''ve paid more attention when you were at school.

 

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[quote user="TCCANARY"]

So saying that you can''t get experience without doing the job is dressing something up as a fact, you should''ve paid more attention when you were at school.

 

[/quote]That''s not what I said, TC, and you know it.Stop spoiling for a fight when there isn''t one to be had.

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I would argue that most fans are at best bemused about the appointment of Adams.

We needed someone with experience, we didnt get that.

Adams has NO experience of managing in the Championship. What is so wrong at being annoyed/frustrated we didnt get that?!

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RVW .. True the club didn''t get the experienced manager, although they said they looked far and wide.As previously asked of Reggie, who would you have realistically wanted them to go after? It doesn''t matter whether they were available or not.

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As one who was ''bemused'' by the appointment of Adams, I''m beginning to see the overall logic of it. I thought it would be MacKay, for his experience, but I wonder if there were doubts about his temperament, especially after what happened at Cardiff last year.

There would be risks whoever was appointed and looking at the whole management team now I think there is a solidity about it. I particularly like the appointment of Royle in the mentoring role that Lampard Sr provided for Rodgers when he was appointed.

We won''t know for sure until the season has started, but I''m now felling more confident about our chances next season with a team playing attractive attacking football again.

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[quote user="stewfil"]RVW .. As previously asked of Reggie, who would you have realistically wanted them to go after? It doesn''t matter whether they were available or not.[/quote]What an extraordinary statement , Stewfil.How can it ''not matter if they are available or not'' ?!How can the club appoint people who are not available, or unwilling to come ?

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The only reason we had 3 years in the Premier League was Lambo.I honestly believe that.Our Board shows no ambition at the best of times and they got lucky with the Lambo appointment.Yes Lambo might be a **** but he was successful. In my 12 years as a Norwich City supporter the best managers we''ve had have been Nigel Worthington (in the beginning anyway) and PL. We wont be back in the Premier League again for a long long time is my feeling.

Would dearly love to be proved wrong.

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[quote user="Reggie Strayshun"][quote user="TCCANARY"]

So saying that you can''t get experience without doing the job is dressing something up as a fact, you should''ve paid more attention when you were at school.

 

[/quote]

That''s not what I said, TC, and you know it.

Stop spoiling for a fight when there isn''t one to be had.
[/quote]

 

I said "It''s not my belief, it''s a fact that the only way to get experience is to do the job, you can''t ''beg to differ'' with facts."

 

You said "Just because you dress something up as a fact, TC, doesn''t automatically make it one. That''s what they taught me in school, anyway."

 

I think you''ve no idea what you''re saying.

 

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A lot of truth in what you say RvW, though perhaps you are being a tad unfair on the board. Whilst they have often been unambitious, sometimes they do not get the credit they deserve for sorting out the car-crash that was NCFC''s finances and getting us debt-free.Like you, I think that they just got lucky with Paul Lambert, and as many others have said, at our level ,a lot of appointments rely a fair bit on luck. Like a lot of people I welcomed the Hughton appointment (won''t be hypocritical and deny it), but it all too soon became apparent that he was the wrong man for the job and sucked all the life and identity out of the club. In the main ,it doesn''t take long to see which way the wind is blowing with managerial appointments, so we''ll soon see if they''ve got lucky and the Adams regime is going to do well or badly. There is no getting away from it, I do not have a great deal of confidence, but, you never know..... it may be as pleasant a surprise as the Hughton tenure was an unpleasant one.

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Good post Reggie.I too was fully in favour of Hughton taking over and he was my first choice as well. I desperately want Neil Adams to suceed but I just fear we''ll finish midtable or worse...

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