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simmo_2

Are NCFC the 1st club to appoint the managers mate as Director of Football.

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I always thought the director of football to be a link between the board and manager, also impartial to both.

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I''ve not seen it reported anywhere that he is the Director of football, thought he was a ''football consultant''?

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[quote user="Rivvo"]I''ve not seen it reported anywhere that he is the Director of football, thought he was a ''football consultant''?[/quote]

Split hairs then Rivvo, So where in the link does a football consultant go, Board, ?, Director of Football, ?, Manager.

Also who out of the 3 who needs to consult Joe Royle about Football ?

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Great first Neil is too inexperienced & has no contacts. So he appoints a consultant to assist with the gaps. So then that''s wrong too. He is not a Director of Football. Probably will have no contact with the board at all.

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Dont the majority of new managers to a club bring in a team of people they know well, have worked with for years, respect their ability etc. Adams is simply doing similar and along with the board is clearly trying to get a mix of experience, ability and knowledge in his team, fair play to him as if its goes wrong he will take the blame no doubt. 

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I suspect that the appointment of Joe Royal is partly because of all the catcalls about Adams, "But he''s not got any experience!" and partly because he almost achieved promotion from the Championship with Ipswich.

How much input he will have, I have not the slightest idea, but the title suggests that he will put his vast experience in the service of the club and in support of Adams. I can''t see much wrong in this.

The Club has announced that the person to be appointed Technical Director will be revealed shortly, whatever that means.

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[quote user="Dubai Mark"]Dont the majority of new managers to a club bring in a team of people they know well, have worked with for years, respect their ability etc. Adams is simply doing similar and along with the board is clearly trying to get a mix of experience, ability and knowledge in his team, fair play to him as if its goes wrong he will take the blame no doubt. [/quote]All this is fine and dandy, Mark, but the question some of us are asking is this : Royle''s appointment is supposedly to bring experience to the table, as it''s felt we need some if we are to be a success next season . So, if that''s the case, why did we not last week just appoint a manager with a few seasons of experience at this level in the first place?It''s not anti board, anti Royle, anti Adams, or anti anything. It''s just a perfectly reasonable question, that lots of fans will be asking right now.

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[quote user="Reggie Strayshun"][quote user="Dubai Mark"]Dont the majority of new managers to a club bring in a team of people they know well, have worked with for years, respect their ability etc. Adams is simply doing similar and along with the board is clearly trying to get a mix of experience, ability and knowledge in his team, fair play to him as if its goes wrong he will take the blame no doubt. [/quote]

All this is fine and dandy, Mark, but the question some of us are asking is this : Royle''s appointment is supposedly to bring experience to the table, as it''s felt we need some if we are to be a success next season . So, if that''s the case, why did we not last week just appoint a manager with a few seasons of experience at this level in the first place?

It''s not anti board, anti Royle, anti Adams, or anti anything. It''s just a perfectly reasonable question, that lots of fans will be asking right now.
[/quote]

 

May be it''s because the candidates they interviewed didn''t have all the characteristics that they were looking for, the one they appointed fulfilled most of the criteria but was lacking in one area so they decided to appoint him and address the issue separately. Not an unusual tactic when interviewing, been on a couple of interview panels that did exactly that and ended up with brilliant employees.

 

 

 

 

 

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Reggie, the club have admitted they lack ''Football'' experience within the current managerial regime. Appointing Royle, someone who Adams knows well, respects, knows the club, has pedigree and kudos within the game, to assist and bridge the gap identified is surely a positive sign?

 

Think we all realise, the board more than us, that mistakes were made, we have no idea whether this will work one way or the other, but for gods sake lets give them all a chance to make it work before we start the vitriol..... 

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[quote user="TCCANARY"]

[quote user="Reggie Strayshun"][quote user="Dubai Mark"]Dont the majority of new managers to a club bring in a team of people they know well, have worked with for years, respect their ability etc. Adams is simply doing similar and along with the board is clearly trying to get a mix of experience, ability and knowledge in his team, fair play to him as if its goes wrong he will take the blame no doubt. [/quote]All this is fine and dandy, Mark, but the question some of us are asking is this : Royle''s appointment is supposedly to bring experience to the table, as it''s felt we need some if we are to be a success next season . So, if that''s the case, why did we not last week just appoint a manager with a few seasons of experience at this level in the first place?It''s not anti board, anti Royle, anti Adams, or anti anything. It''s just a perfectly reasonable question, that lots of fans will be asking right now.[/quote]

 

May be it''s because the candidates they interviewed didn''t have all the characteristics that they were looking for, the one they appointed fulfilled most of the criteria but was lacking in one area so they decided to appoint him and address the issue separately. Not an unusual tactic when interviewing, been on a couple of interview panels that did exactly that and ended up with brilliant employees.

 

 

 

 

 

[/quote]OK, fair enough TCC. I too have been on several interview boards, and it all rather depends on how key the appointment is as to how flexible you can be with the ''box ticking''. To my mind, 1st team manager at a club with Premier league pretensions is a pretty fundamental, key appointment . So, if the board feel that experience at this level is important (as now seemingly they are saying), then, I''d have thought that this would be a very important box to tick . Maybe more important than some of the boxes Adams does tick. Something of a given, if you like.Had they been interviewing for a less key role, then perhaps they could have overlooked the ''experience'' angle a bit and appointed on the candidate''s other assets. But not for First Team manager ?

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Well clearly experience in management wasn''t a "given" for Adams being appointment.  In the same way that it wasn''t when Spurs appointed Sherwood.  And before anyone says that didn''t work out for them, it was probably as successful as any Spurs management appointment since Redknapp left them.

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[quote user="Reggie Strayshun"][quote user="TCCANARY"]

[quote user="Reggie Strayshun"][quote user="Dubai Mark"]Dont the majority of new managers to a club bring in a team of people they know well, have worked with for years, respect their ability etc. Adams is simply doing similar and along with the board is clearly trying to get a mix of experience, ability and knowledge in his team, fair play to him as if its goes wrong he will take the blame no doubt. [/quote]

All this is fine and dandy, Mark, but the question some of us are asking is this : Royle''s appointment is supposedly to bring experience to the table, as it''s felt we need some if we are to be a success next season . So, if that''s the case, why did we not last week just appoint a manager with a few seasons of experience at this level in the first place?

It''s not anti board, anti Royle, anti Adams, or anti anything. It''s just a perfectly reasonable question, that lots of fans will be asking right now.
[/quote]

 

May be it''s because the candidates they interviewed didn''t have all the characteristics that they were looking for, the one they appointed fulfilled most of the criteria but was lacking in one area so they decided to appoint him and address the issue separately. Not an unusual tactic when interviewing, been on a couple of interview panels that did exactly that and ended up with brilliant employees.

 

 

 

 

 

[/quote]

OK, fair enough TCC. I too have been on several interview boards, and it all rather depends on how key the appointment is as to how flexible you can be with the ''box ticking''. To my mind, 1st team manager at a club with Premier league pretensions is a pretty fundamental, key appointment . So, if the board feel that experience at this level is important (as now seemingly they are saying), then, I''d have thought that this would be a very important box to tick . Maybe more important than some of the boxes Adams does tick. Something of a given, if you like.

Had they been interviewing for a less key role, then perhaps they could have overlooked the ''experience'' angle a bit and appointed on the candidate''s other assets. But not for First Team manager ?
[/quote]

 

You can''t get experience without doing the job so if all a candidate lacks is experience the you''d be a fool not to appoint them, many clubs have appointed good candidates to first team managers position without experience and not regretted it otherwise people like Brendan Rodgers, Sean Dyche etc. wouldn''t be working as manager/first team coaches.

 

 

 

 

 

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[quote user="Reggie Strayshun"][quote user="Dubai Mark"]Dont the majority of new managers to a club bring in a team of people they know well, have worked with for years, respect their ability etc. Adams is simply doing similar and along with the board is clearly trying to get a mix of experience, ability and knowledge in his team, fair play to him as if its goes wrong he will take the blame no doubt. [/quote]All this is fine and dandy, Mark, but the question some of us are asking is this : Royle''s appointment is supposedly to bring experience to the table, as it''s felt we need some if we are to be a success next season . So, if that''s the case, why did we not last week just appoint a manager with a few seasons of experience at this level in the first place?It''s not anti board, anti Royle, anti Adams, or anti anything. It''s just a perfectly reasonable question, that lots of fans will be asking right now.[/quote]They tried to. Mackay, who fits that description perfectly, was their first choice. Once he played hard to get the only person mentioned as being in the frame with Championship experience over more than a season was Zola. Whose record is one of failure. If all we had to do was appoint someone with the kind of successful second-tier experience you want then, Reggie, you are going to have to name some names of suitable managers who would have been willing to join us. I doubt you can. Almost by definition if someone has done well over time in the Championship they are not managing there now.

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I would love to know who has pushed for the JR appointment.

I suspect it was conditional upon Neils appointment that someone of JR''s obvious quality and experience should be brought in to assist and advise where necessary,however I also believe that Neil will have been big enough to recognise where his weaknesses are and would willingly ask for this sort of support.

The risk with this type of appointment is that there is no clear understanding of roles and responsibilities, at the outset there has to be complete clarity and a shared understanding. If that is all in place then it looks like a great combination.

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[quote user="Reggie Strayshun"][quote user="Dubai Mark"]Dont the majority of new managers to a club bring in a team of people they know well, have worked with for years, respect their ability etc. Adams is simply doing similar and along with the board is clearly trying to get a mix of experience, ability and knowledge in his team, fair play to him as if its goes wrong he will take the blame no doubt. [/quote]

All this is fine and dandy, Mark, but the question some of us are asking is this : Royle''s appointment is supposedly to bring experience to the table, as it''s felt we need some if we are to be a success next season . So, if that''s the case, why did we not last week just appoint a manager with a few seasons of experience at this level in the first place?

It''s not anti board, anti Royle, anti Adams, or anti anything. It''s just a perfectly reasonable question, that lots of fans will be asking right now.
[/quote]

 

Huzzah! [Y]

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Reggie, but I was just commenting on the situation based on the fact that Adams is in place, my views regarding what type of experience the new manager should have had are probably similar to yours. But, Adams is in place now, so the recruiting needs to be smart so as to ensure that he has the right people around him with the enough experience between them, and that appears to be happening.  

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The technical director will add a further layer of complexity and the dynamics behind the scene will be interesting.

 

With Adams rumoured dismay at being blocked from getting Foley as his first choice support / coach the possible imposition of a senior "football consultant" could be taken as a message that there is a remaining underlying and ultimately undermining concern at Adams inexperience at board level.   That could be multiplied when the final two footballing director appointments are made.  

 

Hopefully we will see some positive squad activity over the next couple of weeks and can start focusing on the team again.  

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[quote user="Reggie Strayshun"][quote user="Dubai Mark"]Dont the majority of new managers to a club bring in a team of people they know well, have worked with for years, respect their ability etc. Adams is simply doing similar and along with the board is clearly trying to get a mix of experience, ability and knowledge in his team, fair play to him as if its goes wrong he will take the blame no doubt. [/quote]All this is fine and dandy, Mark, but the question some of us are asking is this : Royle''s appointment is supposedly to bring experience to the table, as it''s felt we need some if we are to be a success next season . So, if that''s the case, why did we not last week just appoint a manager with a few seasons of experience at this level in the first place?It''s not anti board, anti Royle, anti Adams, or anti anything. It''s just a perfectly reasonable question, that lots of fans will be asking right now.[/quote]Which of the single managerial candidates available offered the combined ability of this package Reggie?

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interesting thread.

I do agree that if we wanted experience then why did we simply not go out and get it?

If managers are rejecting us why are we now such an unattractive proposition to work for?

also.. Royle is acting as some kind of football "advisor" to Adams.. will this literally invole Neil phoning Royle on a saturday night and saying "we played 4-4-2 this week, were rubbish and lost 3-0.. what shall i do?" with Royle replying "don''t play 4-4-2?"

 

If thats the case i''d be seriously worried about Adams capabilities!

we need to know more about Royles role..

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[quote user="littleyellowbirdie"][quote user="Reggie Strayshun"][quote user="Dubai Mark"]Dont the majority of new managers to a club bring in a team of people they know well, have worked with for years, respect their ability etc. Adams is simply doing similar and along with the board is clearly trying to get a mix of experience, ability and knowledge in his team, fair play to him as if its goes wrong he will take the blame no doubt. [/quote]All this is fine and dandy, Mark, but the question some of us are asking is this : Royle''s appointment is supposedly to bring experience to the table, as it''s felt we need some if we are to be a success next season . So, if that''s the case, why did we not last week just appoint a manager with a few seasons of experience at this level in the first place?It''s not anti board, anti Royle, anti Adams, or anti anything. It''s just a perfectly reasonable question, that lots of fans will be asking right now.[/quote]Which of the single managerial candidates available offered the combined ability of this package Reggie?[/quote]If I knew the full list of managerial candidates who''d applied for the job, LYB, I''d be able to answer your question.But I don''t, so I can''t.

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[quote user="Reggie Strayshun"][quote user="littleyellowbirdie"][quote user="Reggie Strayshun"][quote user="Dubai Mark"]Dont the majority of new managers to a club bring in a team of people they know well, have worked with for years, respect their ability etc. Adams is simply doing similar and along with the board is clearly trying to get a mix of experience, ability and knowledge in his team, fair play to him as if its goes wrong he will take the blame no doubt. [/quote]All this is fine and dandy, Mark, but the question some of us are asking is this : Royle''s appointment is supposedly to bring experience to the table, as it''s felt we need some if we are to be a success next season . So, if that''s the case, why did we not last week just appoint a manager with a few seasons of experience at this level in the first place?It''s not anti board, anti Royle, anti Adams, or anti anything. It''s just a perfectly reasonable question, that lots of fans will be asking right now.[/quote]Which of the single managerial candidates available offered the combined ability of this package Reggie?[/quote]If I knew the full list of managerial candidates who''d applied for the job, LYB, I''d be able to answer your question.But I don''t, so I can''t.[/quote]In that case, what''s the point of your question?

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[quote user="littleyellowbirdie"][quote user="Reggie Strayshun"][quote user="littleyellowbirdie"][quote user="Reggie Strayshun"][quote user="Dubai Mark"]Dont the majority of new managers to a club bring in a team of people they know well, have worked with for years, respect their ability etc. Adams is simply doing similar and along with the board is clearly trying to get a mix of experience, ability and knowledge in his team, fair play to him as if its goes wrong he will take the blame no doubt. [/quote]

All this is fine and dandy, Mark, but the question some of us are asking is this : Royle''s appointment is supposedly to bring experience to the table, as it''s felt we need some if we are to be a success next season . So, if that''s the case, why did we not last week just appoint a manager with a few seasons of experience at this level in the first place?

It''s not anti board, anti Royle, anti Adams, or anti anything. It''s just a perfectly reasonable question, that lots of fans will be asking right now.
[/quote]

Which of the single managerial candidates available offered the combined ability of this package Reggie?
[/quote]

If I knew the full list of managerial candidates who''d applied for the job, LYB, I''d be able to answer your question.

But I don''t, so I can''t.
[/quote]

In that case, what''s the point of your question?
[/quote]

 

Malky Mackay?

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[quote user="jas the barclay king"]

[quote user="littleyellowbirdie"][quote user="Reggie Strayshun"][quote user="littleyellowbirdie"][quote user="Reggie Strayshun"][quote user="Dubai Mark"]Dont the majority of new managers to a club bring in a team of people they know well, have worked with for years, respect their ability etc. Adams is simply doing similar and along with the board is clearly trying to get a mix of experience, ability and knowledge in his team, fair play to him as if its goes wrong he will take the blame no doubt. [/quote]

All this is fine and dandy, Mark, but the question some of us are asking is this : Royle''s appointment is supposedly to bring experience to the table, as it''s felt we need some if we are to be a success next season . So, if that''s the case, why did we not last week just appoint a manager with a few seasons of experience at this level in the first place?

It''s not anti board, anti Royle, anti Adams, or anti anything. It''s just a perfectly reasonable question, that lots of fans will be asking right now.
[/quote]

Which of the single managerial candidates available offered the combined ability of this package Reggie?
[/quote]

If I knew the full list of managerial candidates who''d applied for the job, LYB, I''d be able to answer your question.

But I don''t, so I can''t.
[/quote]

In that case, what''s the point of your question?
[/quote]

 

Malky Mackay?

[/quote]

 

should have read, Mackay had championship experience. if you really want to split hairs (and he probably wasnt on the short list) Neil Warnock has nearly 25 years under his belt.

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To me it looks like a question of timing. We only have so many weeks before the start of next year and the close of the transfer window on 31st August. In that time there is the distraction of a World Cup and the suspicion that a number of our players will want out. We need to start work now to avoid a mass exodus in July/August without suitable replacements. That is not to say it will happen but there is a risk that half a dozen ship out after pre-season or even the season starts and the team looks like a bunch of strangers until Autumn - when it might already be too late.

McKay appears to be our chosen one, but appears to be holding out to see if something better comes along - these jobs have a tendency to cascade - and be unlikely to commit until the Prem jobs are all filled. I don''t think anyone on here would be too calm if the post was still unfilled by the time pre-season starts. Lennon would seem to be in a similar boat BUT there is no evidence that he has ever been interested.

Warnock? Possibly but would you want him? The rest like Zola start to look like serial failures (but experienced). After that you are scraping the barrel really.

So what do you do?

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[quote user="littleyellowbirdie"]If I knew the full list of managerial candidates who''d applied for the job, LYB, I''d be able to answer your question.

In that case, what''s the point of your question?[/quote]As I said, mine was a perfectly reasonable question. We have been led to believe that the whole gamut of possible contenders had been trawled from all over Europe, so it''s fair enough to assume that a few, at least, had some experience at PL or league level, surely , and had been available for hiring ?Yours was a specific question...ie to name a name. And I repeat, without having a full list of applicants, all I would be doing would be to draw a name out of the hat of rumoured  candidates.

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[quote user="Reggie Strayshun"][quote user="littleyellowbirdie"][quote user="Reggie Strayshun"][quote user="Dubai Mark"]Dont the majority of new managers to a club bring in a team of people they know well, have worked with for years, respect their ability etc. Adams is simply doing similar and along with the board is clearly trying to get a mix of experience, ability and knowledge in his team, fair play to him as if its goes wrong he will take the blame no doubt. [/quote]All this is fine and dandy, Mark, but the question some of us are asking is this : Royle''s appointment is supposedly to bring experience to the table, as it''s felt we need some if we are to be a success next season . So, if that''s the case, why did we not last week just appoint a manager with a few seasons of experience at this level in the first place?It''s not anti board, anti Royle, anti Adams, or anti anything. It''s just a perfectly reasonable question, that lots of fans will be asking right now.[/quote]Which of the single managerial candidates available offered the combined ability of this package Reggie?[/quote]If I knew the full list of managerial candidates who''d applied for the job, LYB, I''d be able to answer your question.But I don''t, so I can''t.[/quote]No, Reggie. Good try, but you can''t get away with that. You said:So, if that''s the case, why did we not last week

just appoint a manager with a few seasons of experience at this level in

the first place?To answer your own rhetorical question you don''t need to know who was on the club''s list. You only need to name a few managers who fit your criteria of several years of experience (presumably with a fair degree of success) in the Championship. You must believe there are some such, otherwise you couildn''t be now criticising the board for not having chosen one of them. So name names. I can''t think of one (because I suspect any such are employed in the Premier League) but I look forward to your list to prove me wrong.

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[quote user="BigFish"]To me it looks like a question of timing. We only have so many weeks before the start of next year and the close of the transfer window on 31st August. In that time there is the distraction of a World Cup and the suspicion that a number of our players will want out. We need to start work now to avoid a mass exodus in July/August without suitable replacements. That is not to say it will happen but there is a risk that half a dozen ship out after pre-season or even the season starts and the team looks like a bunch of strangers until Autumn - when it might already be too late.

McKay appears to be our chosen one, but appears to be holding out to see if something better comes along - these jobs have a tendency to cascade - and be unlikely to commit until the Prem jobs are all filled. I don''t think anyone on here would be too calm if the post was still unfilled by the time pre-season starts. Lennon would seem to be in a similar boat BUT there is no evidence that he has ever been interested.

Warnock? Possibly but would you want him? The rest like Zola start to look like serial failures (but experienced). After that you are scraping the barrel really.

So what do you do?[/quote] None you have mentioned will be director of football if thats what you are mean in your post.

The new Director of football will be a mate of Joe Royle, someone who has not been involved in football for at least 5 years

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Reggie, Reggie, Reggie......without naming names the suspicion is that you don''t have a clue. The driver remains timing, who would take the job now?

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The new Director of football will be a mate of Joe Royle, someone who has not been involved in football for at least 5 years

 

 

Excluding his very short stint at Fulham this year with Muhlensteen (sp?) that sounds extremely like Alan Curbishley.    Back to the charlton model??  

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[quote user="Reggie Strayshun"][quote user="littleyellowbirdie"]If I knew the full list of managerial candidates who''d applied for the job, LYB, I''d be able to answer your question.

In that case, what''s the point of your question?[/quote]As I said, mine was a perfectly reasonable question. We have been led to believe that the whole gamut of possible contenders had been trawled from all over Europe, so it''s fair enough to assume that a few, at least, had some experience at PL or league level, surely , and had been available for hiring ?Yours was a specific question...ie to name a name. And I repeat, without having a full list of applicants, all I would be doing would be to draw a name out of the hat of rumoured  candidates.[/quote]Okay, Reggie, so you don''t have a preferred name, but for the sake of argument lets assume there had been a name who could bring all the skills on offer in this group of people to the table. Why would that be inherently be a better option than having a number of people with one of them in overall charge bringing all of those skills to the table as a team?

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