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a1canary

United in a proper mess - we won't get a better chance

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Giggs, Butt, Neville and Scholes have all jumped on board to help. Is that really the answer? Why not add Roy Keane just for good measure? Getting them in is probably the only short term answer for now, but they have little or no managerial experience - even less than our Neil! - and are sure to expect things from players that they themsevles were able to offer and deliver. Which is one of the reasons great players often make sh*t managers.

Also they really have absolutely nothing to motivate them.

Impress new manager? Nope, he''s going to be replaced as soon as the season''s over.

In the running for silverware, top 4 finish? Nope.

Thinking about where they are going to play next year? Yes.

The players heads are going to be all over the place. This whole situation at OT might JUST be the holy intervention we need to get us a win and a springboard to Chelsea who will either have their priorities elsewhere or be on a massive downer, what with their Champs League second leg game a few days before they play us. I suppose what we don''t want is them to beat Liverpool and go out of the Champions League. Then they will still be in with a shout of the Prem title.

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Too right a1. When we looked at these fixtures it looked truly terrifying. But now its possible that:

1. United in a mess and who knows where the players heads will be after this week?

2. Chelsea potentially out of the title race and with many injuries, maybe also focussing on a Champions League final

3. Arsenal hopefully will have locked up 4th and the distraction of the Cup Final

....and all 3 stuffed full of internationals who may not relish a late season injury depriving them of a trip to the Copacabana.

My money is still on us playing Brentford next season, but I feel a lot more hopeful about a survival miracle than after we lost at home to WBA.

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Today''s Daily Mail says Mourinho intends to speak to his board about playing fringe players at Anfield. So he has either given up on the title or is playing some complex mind game.

If they win the CL semi-final, I don''t know whether he would use the same tactic to protect players three weeks ahead of a final.

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Good point about Arsenal having hopefully secured 4th place. But I hope when we play them they have no chance of taking 3rd place - they may want to achieve that to avoid having to take part in the extra games of the CL play-off rounds.

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I disagree smith, respectfully.

A bounce comes from the relief and the removal of stress or burden that had developed under the old manager. And even that wasn''t enough for us.

But at OT the problem was never the manager. There is still huge uncertainty there, the players have nothing and no-one to play for, even after the sacking. I fully expect them to make a good appointment and to recover but for now until the end of the season, they''re in limbo.

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And a game against ncfc is going to have a bearing on WC selection?

Or, as has been said, will a blood and thunder relegation clash be the last thing potential WC players will want to get involved in?

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a1 that is a glass half full approach , and good luck to you .  If the hacks are to be believed the players have been deeply frustrated by Moyes , and I fear we will see a "leader from within" management approach from Giggs, with lots of pace , width and early passes , and I honestly think we had more chance with Moyes in charge. I haven''t seen them much this year but I hear they are narrow, and cautious, which is most unlike MUFC and Giggs. Wellback will probably be back all guns blazing. And Fellani will be washing his car.

 

I hope that you are right, but I think our chances got worse on Tuesday.

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Maybe United should appoint Houghton as their next manager..............

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[quote user="a1canary"]I disagree smith, respectfully.

A bounce comes from the relief and the removal of stress or burden that had developed under the old manager. And even that wasn''t enough for us.

But at OT the problem was never the manager. There is still huge uncertainty there, the players have nothing and no-one to play for, even after the sacking. I fully expect them to make a good appointment and to recover but for now until the end of the season, they''re in limbo.[/quote]Have to disagree - respectfully of course [;)] - that the manager wasn''t the problem at OT. Unless there''s a side issue of a crackpot owner to contend with then the problem is always the manager and his relationship with the team/fans. That''s why they get sacked.It certainly was at Carrow Road and it''s a crying shame it was left so long to fester..

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Ownership at OT is a very significant side issue. Glazer may not be a crackpot (or may be!) but the total car crash that has been their transfer business since Ferg left is absolutely the fault of the owners/executive. The fact that Moyes made some panic buys because he couldn''t get anyone else may reflect poorly on him but I don''t think that''s especially fair.

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[quote user="a1canary"]And a game against ncfc is going to have a bearing on WC selection?[/quote]
I think most players who are/could be involved at this years world cup would rather finish the season on a high.  People claiming there''s no incentive for the players - There''s one.

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Of course it could all work in reverse and gee them up for a real hardcore performance? I''m not sure their pants just yet... even under Moyes they were a decent side most weeks - maybe not like years gone by, but even Ferguson had a few shakey seasons.No walk overs! Still a decent chance during this period of change to catch them off guard - could be worse I suppose.

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Despite the teams we have left to play it COULD work out ok.

Need to go hard at UTD from kick off and I think they might struggle. Big managerial turnover and missing rafael/evra at the back.

IF Liverpool beat chelsea next game there title chances will be all but over. Missing cech & terry, potentially hazard & etoo too!

Jumping on the arsenal fan bang wagon for the next 2 games, and hoping everton slip up! If arsenal have 4th in the bag by the carrow road visit I can see players rested for the FA cup final

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Lots of factors influencing those last 3 games, most of them not foreseeable at the begining of the season when the fixture list came out.

Initially there was shock and awe when those fixtures were seen, but however much of a pessimist you are, taken as a whole those three fixtures appear a lot less daunting than they did.

OTBC

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There''s still no getting away from the fact that their squad is much better than ours. I think the United game, as it always has been, is a write off for us. The team will be buoyed, as will the crowd.

Perhaps we can take a point at Stamford Bridge though. Particularly if they are still in the Champs League and resting players. Although Chelsea''s second string is still better than our first.

I think the Arsenal game is our big chance of three points.

We''ve really got to hope that Everton drop points and let the Gunners over the line early. A Toffees loss at St Mary''s this weekend would get the ball rolling.

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To me this game has the same sort of feeling the time we spolied the last standing Kop party.

It''s all about Man U, all eyes will be on them little Norwich spoil the dawning of a new era.

Actually we probably stand more chance against Chelsea. All things considered.

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Wings - I think we have more chance at Chelsea.

If they progress in the Champs League then all eyes are on keeping fit for that.

If they go out then there''s nothing left to play for in the league.

Mourinho already knows what squad overhauling he wants to do, so no-one is playing for another contract.

I think we can take a point there.

Then throw everything at Arsenal.

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I think we''re wrong to think Arsenal is going to be our best chance, we could be gone by then anyway if we get nothing at OT. The return of a rested Ozil and Ramsey is a serious blow to our chances. People seem to have forgotten how they were playing earlier in the season - when they took us apart - and were top of the league. The advanced three of Ozil Ramsey and Wilshere behind Giroud were unplayable at times the way they were interchanging. Ok no Wilshere but they''re starting to get back a number of the personnel they had in harness when they were top of the league.

The only hope is that they rest a few for the cup, which i agree is likely to take on huge significance for them as a chance for some all too rare silverware for Wenger.

But my main point is i feel certain that we need 3 points from OT or Stamford Bridge and 4 from the two games minimum.

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[quote user="a1canary"]But at OT the problem was never the manager.[/quote]Of course it was the manager... David Moyes and his negative rigid one-dimensional tactics.  They might have been ok for Everton but where never going to cut the mustard at Old Trafford.

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[quote user="a1canary"]But at OT the problem was never the manager.[/quote]Of course it was the manager... David Moyes and his negative rigid one-dimensional tactics.  They might have been ok for Everton but where never going to cut the mustard at Old Trafford.

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I agree with CJF et al, way too many rumblings of discontent this season under Moyes, no smoke without fire as they say - Giggs will turn that round no problem, they still have some very decent players and I do fear it''s made our task much harder at Old Trafford. Him and Scholes will know Fergies methods inside out and will have Old Trafford rocking again, I''m certain the crowd will respond to Giggs in a big way, it goes without saying the bloke is a bit of a crowd favourite to say the least!. Therefore, I see us needing to take a leaf out of Liverpools book and getting at the home team early, we need to show them we mean business. Anyway, will stop waffling (tired) but we can get the 3 points if we want it, just ultimately we would surely have had a far better chance against Moyes and his dismal home record (and yes I know we''ve found away results difficult but this was, and is, the perfect chance - just a bit harder without Moyes in charge I feel).

Let''s hope this is our time at Old Trafford OTBC

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[quote user="a1canary"]I disagree smith, respectfully.

A bounce comes from the relief and the removal of stress or burden that had developed under the old manager. And even that wasn''t enough for us.

But at OT the problem was never the manager. There is still huge uncertainty there, the players have nothing and no-one to play for, even after the sacking. I fully expect them to make a good appointment and to recover but for now until the end of the season, they''re in limbo.[/quote]

The problem was THE manager. The players disliked Moyes and that was reflected on the pitch. Anderson, Ferdinand and RVP were all critical of the training and techniques. The players will be fully behind Giggs and I believe this is a nightmare scenario for us.

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ManU is in a mess, so it''s sarcastically time for neat and tidy, well-organized, balanced and focused Norwich City to show them how to play the game.

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Mixed feelings in this one

Neither manager has anything to loose..they both have taken over failing teams by their respective standards and it''s not their fault. Adams has some managerial experience at a lower level. Giggs is or was a great player and should know how to motivate his co-workers but managing tactics from the side is a new experience for him.

On balance we have a small management advantage. Man U have the advantage of better players and a back room staff we can only dream of.

Gonna be interesting and likely match of the day for many reasons.

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[quote user="a1canary"]I think we''re wrong to think Arsenal is going to be our best chance, we could be gone by then anyway if we get nothing at OT. The return of a rested Ozil and Ramsey is a serious blow to our chances. People seem to have forgotten how they were playing earlier in the season - when they took us apart - and were top of the league. The advanced three of Ozil Ramsey and Wilshere behind Giroud were unplayable at times the way they were interchanging. Ok no Wilshere but they''re starting to get back a number of the personnel they had in harness when they were top of the league.

The only hope is that they rest a few for the cup, which i agree is likely to take on huge significance for them as a chance for some all too rare silverware for Wenger.

But my main point is i feel certain that we need 3 points from OT or Stamford Bridge and 4 from the two games minimum.[/quote]If arsenal are 4+ points ahead of Everton then I would not be worried at all about Ozil or Ramsey playing against us. their minds will be fixated on the next weekend, for their first chance at a cup in what, 8/9 years now? Wenger will not risk the criticism he will receive if they have 4th wrapped up, and he plays a full regular XI against us and one gets injured.

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The United game is the hardest to call.

 

On one hand, Giggs et al will lift the mood and have the team playing a more expansive game, buts lots of ''rumours'' state that United are not keen to qualify for the Europa league. I think a point at best is what we can hope for.

 

Now, Chelsea on the other hand... If they can beat Atletico, I can really see us with a big chance here. Many injuries in the camp, Mourinho is known for swimming against the tide and 4 days after a semi final, and only a final to play for 13 days later, I can really see him chucking out a bits and pieces team. we have hope here..

 

Arsenal will not play all of Giroud, Ozil, Ramsey, Chamberlain, Sagna, Mertesacker. Wenger cannot risk losing this final, simple as. With home games against WBA and Newcastle to come, they will want to wrap 4th up pretty quickly.

 

So rose glasses on and 4 points is a real possibility, lose at United, draw Chelsea, win Arsenal. However, more confident now than 2 months ago that we could, just could pick, 5,6 or even 7 points. But we must start how we finished on Sunday.

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