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hurricane

would we have been one point better off if we had kept hoots?

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In a word "No" Miggins, morty and co can bleat their utter bilge all they like now to try and prove they were right in defending Clueless all season. I am glad to see the back of the clown. He has built a squad of overpaid tosspots!He has blown our biggest transfer budgets ever on what?? We would have gone down with him anyway. Basically the players dont believe, have accepted relegation and give up soon as we go behind. There is no leaders on the pitch, Chris Hughton cleared them out the club. To see this sorry bunch playing compared to what we had under Lambert is like a shadow of our former self. This is what Clueless built!So basically how would we have improved under him. He is a lucky boy he was pushed as his managerial career will not have a relegation on his CV. It certainly should have. The board need to make a statement on conformation of relegation and reduce season tickets. The poor people that renewed have now paid an extortionate price for a championship season ticket. A season given the leadership of our board is likely to be a disaster

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This is THE question I know we must have all been asking ourselves after the game yesterday, and of course we will never know.  For me, my view at the time when CH went and NA took over was, I couldnt see the change making much difference, and thats is proving to be the case unfortunately. I always get all positive before each game and really hope for a resul;t of course, and will do the same for the next two matches.....and again feel our chances are the same now under NA as they were under CH, slim but anything is possible. I just want NA to pick the best players we have available, providing their heads are in the right place, and trust him to do that.........consequently, I am hoping that Yobo is fit for Chelsea and Bassong''s head is in the right place for example, as we need to start with one of these in the side and the other on the bench, as Turner is doing it by himself through the middle right now.

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1 more point would not have greatly changed the end game. The big mistake was not getting rid in December not should we have kept him for the last 5. The unswerving loyalty to a man as out of his depth here as moyes was at Manchester is what has done for us

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I find the idea that Hughton, having failed to pick up the points throughout the entire campaign with lacklustre performencesand several thrashing was somehow going to turn it all around against the big clubs! Deluded and ignorant.

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[quote user="JF"]I find the idea that Hughton, having failed to pick up the points throughout the entire campaign with lacklustre performencesand several thrashing was somehow going to turn it all around against the big clubs! Deluded and ignorant.[/quote]And his ability (West Brom at home aside) to pick up points at crucial times?You''re conveniently ignoring that?

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Corresponding fixtures last year CH did worse so keeping him would - given the way we lost at Swansea, Soton, etc - have left us with no more points and worse goal difference and I''d give us no chance of survival if he was still here (compared to a slim chance now).

Also I''m hating this argument that CH pulled out a result when he needed it. He needed a result against WBA - even just a draw at home but really a win. That was when he blew it (having got us into trouble in the preceding games).

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[quote user="Its Character Forming"]Corresponding fixtures last year CH did worse so keeping him would - given the way we lost at Swansea, Soton, etc - have left us with no more points and worse goal difference and I''d give us no chance of survival if he was still here (compared to a slim chance now).

Also I''m hating this argument that CH pulled out a result when he needed it. He needed a result against WBA - even just a draw at home but really a win. That was when he blew it (having got us into trouble in the preceding games).[/quote]People will never be proven right or wrong either way, it is an utterly pointless debate.And I doubt very much people will admit they were wrong either.A lot of people still seem to be confusing opinion with fact though.

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morty wrote the following post at 27/04/2014 8:32 AM:

JF wrote:

I find the idea that Hughton, having failed to pick up the points throughout the entire campaign with lacklustre performencesand several thrashing was somehow going to turn it all around against the big clubs! Deluded and ignorant.

And his ability (West Brom at home aside) to pick up points at crucial times?

You''re conveniently ignoring that

His results this season suggest no reason to think that these 5 games would have been any different. Had he managed to have picked more up in the home games against Fulham, Villa, Cardiff and West Brom we would be safe by now, one win in any of those games would have changed the whole picture. 4 home games that we should have been targeting a decent return from and he got 1, yet people think he would have got more from this last 4!?

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People have short memories and you have to remember the performance that did lead to his sacking.

People have been saying on here, Hughton would have kept it tight. Would he have done? This season we have been anything but good defensively. So basically we''d have been our usual terrible selves defensively - just without any attempt of attacking.

Hughton, in hinsight, should have gone earlier than he has done. As it stands, Adams was left with what we know is a terrible run in. It''s not a fair comparison with the fixtures Hughtons picked up points in. Home games against West Ham and Palace are slightly easier than away to a re-ignited Manchester United.

Our record against the big guys GENERALLY - particularly away from home, in fact any team away from home - suggests we''d have leaked goals just as much as we did yesterday.

And whilst yesterday wasn''t a good performance by any means the second half from Manchester United was probably the best they''ve been all season.

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[quote user="JF"]morty wrote the following post at 27/04/2014 8:32 AM:

JF wrote:

I find the idea that Hughton, having failed to pick up the points throughout the entire campaign with lacklustre performencesand several thrashing was somehow going to turn it all around against the big clubs! Deluded and ignorant.

And his ability (West Brom at home aside) to pick up points at crucial times?

You''re conveniently ignoring that

His results this season suggest no reason to think that these 5 games would have been any different. Had he managed to have picked more up in the home games against Fulham, Villa, Cardiff and West Brom we would be safe by now, one win in any of those games would have changed the whole picture. 4 home games that we should have been targeting a decent return from and he got 1, yet people think he would have got more from this last 4!?[/quote]And how many points has Neil Adams taken?

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0 he was never the answer and the board need to explain why it was left far too late.

Hughtons results in last seasons fixtures

Fulham 5 Us 0

Us 2 Liverpool 5

Man U 4 Us 0

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[quote user="JF"]0 he was never the answer and the board need to explain why it was left far too late.

Hughtons results in last seasons fixtures

Fulham 5 Us 0

Us 2 Liverpool 5

Man U 4 Us 0[/quote]Shall I quote some wins from last season?I don''t see the point you are trying to make.Hughton was sacked after the West Brom game because of the fans reaction. When we go down at the end of the season, and Adams hasn''t taken a single point, there will be a tiny nagging doubt in most peoples heads wondering what may have happened.

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Well yes short of a time machine it''s just opinions and I''d admit we were wrong to stick with Hughton fro the January transfer window.

But look at Hughton''s record at the 3 teams NA has played.

Fulham away - lost.

Man U away - lost last year and again this year in the league cup

Liverpool - conceded 5 goals whenever we played then.

So it''s pretty optimistic to think he''d have got anything from our last 3 games.

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Shall I quote some wins from last season?

I don''t see the point you are trying to make.

Hughton was sacked after the West Brom game because of the fans reaction. When we go down at the end of the season, and Adams hasn''t taken a single point, there will be a tiny nagging doubt in most peoples heads wondering what may have happened.

These are the games that Adams has had and how Hughton fared in these matches last season, the only wat to get a rough idea of how it may have gone. Chelsea he lost 4 1 and beat Arsenal 1-0. So 3 points from these 5 games was how he fared last season, we have yet to see how the last 2 will pan out.

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No,we''re points adrift because we kept him for too long.It''s unfair to blame him completely, his tactics have been questionable but some of the blame must rest with the misfiring strike force.Hiring someone who bangs goals in for fun in Scotland (maybe not the hardest achievement in the world) & sadly the same for someone from the Portuguese league have in hindsight been the catalyst for us finding ourselves in the position we are now.The games against West Brom & Fulham were realistically our last chances of points.

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[quote user="fire3822"]No,we''re points adrift because we kept him for too long.It''s unfair to blame him completely, his tactics have been questionable but some of the blame must rest with the misfiring strike force.Hiring someone who bangs goals in for fun in Scotland (maybe not the hardest achievement in the world) & sadly the same for someone from the Portuguese league have in hindsight been the catalyst for us finding ourselves in the position we are now.The games against West Brom & Fulham were realistically our last chances of points.[/quote]People only blame the players when they have run out of anti Hughton arguments.End of the day, we have the players we can afford though.

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Other teams have spent similar money any got far greater return in results and performance

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[quote user="JF"]Other teams have spent similar money any got far greater return in results and performance[/quote]If you want to play the exact science game of spending money, for every team managing it I''ll give you a QPR or a Portsmouth...

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As folks have mentioned, it''s all ifs and buts. We could easily ask the question the other way around. If Adams was in charge from January would we have had more points? The facts don''t lie that Adams has played three lost three - but only one of these was a game where it was really likely we could get something. It''s a bit harsh on the guy after three games. If he had half a season we would have a much better understanding of whether he could do it or not. Unfortunately we waited too long to make the change IMO. Yesterday was poor but clearly they have better players than us, they were at home, and they had a new manager for a game that they expected to win. I would expect a rousing final day against the Arsenal and it''s still possible that three points could keep us up. We are not doomed just yet - but really need a draw today..

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I have been saying all season the players are not good enough . Or, more correctly , you get what you pay for.

We cannot afford to buy players who are nailed on PL class. Every player we buy is a risk and more down to luck than judgement, look at the 50m Chelski spent on a misfiring stricker.

The more money you spend the less luck involved. We are a nailed on bottom six club but so many fans have deluded expectations of where we should be. I would hope that a year or two in the champs will bring some sort of sensibility back but I have been here a few times in my fifty years so expect another cycle to start and finish In the same way.

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And of course, Lost the Faith, you''re correct to an extent - the players aren''t good enough.

But nor were they good enough last year, or the year before. Was our Championship squad even really good enough?

If you don''t see what i''m getting at - i''m pointing out how far good management and momentum can carry you.

Lambert got players believing they were better than they were and that translated onto the pitch not in over-confidence but in the belief they could win in any game if they gave it their all. It''s the lack of this that of course led to Hughtons sacking, at the end of the day.

But at the same time, Hughton should get lots of credit for the finish he took us to last season - where again, the players weren''t good enough - but we finished 11th.

So saying "We''re a nailed on bottom six club" doesn''t run with me.

Mainly because the previous two seasons we didn''t finish bottom six.

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Long drives home wrote the following post at 27/04/2014 3:26 AM:

In a word "No" Miggins, morty and co can bleat their utter bilge all they like now to try and prove they were right in defending Clueless all season.

----------------------------------------------------------

I don''t have an agenda on this, i''m saying that if you take your agenda out for hating hughton and perhaps an enhanced view of Adams?, surely you don''t think we would have lost 4 games in a row? I don''t think thats ever happened to Hughton in the league. You can say ''well we never beat fulham, liverpool and man u. But to me thats just not quite a good enough argument when looking at his record, (especially against the big teams which isn''t too bad whilst he''s been here).

Were we heading down with Hughton? I''m not sure, you would have thought so had the other teams below us not be so bad. But think about it, I think suggesting he would have lost 4 games in a row means that you seem to have an agenda and are blinded by a ''new manager syndrome'' or something. I realise you don''t like Hughton, but although i''m not gonna say he would''ve done this or would''ve done that, you can only see that in his time here, he hasn''t lost more than 2 PL all season. For him to lose 4 games in a row is quite something, but not impossible. But like I say, is it that you love Adams or because you hate Hughton so much to suggest that there is no way possible with such certainty, that he would not have even got a point.

I know i''m repeating myself, but people keep on responding to my posts because i think its likely that he would have gotten a point, I think thats fair enough...and by calling it utter rubbish shows that you don''t actually have a brain, yes you can disagree and say Hughtons away record was terrible and he would have lost against liverpool thats fair enough, but to say that there is an absolute improbability of him getting anything from the games that Adams has had is ridiculous.

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Reckon we''d have stayed up with Hughton, but like with Adams that''ll be last game of the season to decide it.  Still think we''re going to stay up now so it''s a moot point but the old boy should have been sacked in December or stuck with to the bitter end.

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[quote user="mrs miggins"]Long drives home wrote the following post at 27/04/2014 3:26 AM: In a word "No" Miggins, morty and co can bleat their utter bilge all they like now to try and prove they were right in defending Clueless all season. ---------------------------------------------------------- I don''t have an agenda on this, i''m saying that if you take your agenda out for hating hughton and perhaps an enhanced view of Adams?, surely you don''t think we would have lost 4 games in a row? I don''t think thats ever happened to Hughton in the league. You can say ''well we never beat fulham, liverpool and man u. But to me thats just not quite a good enough argument when looking at his record, (especially against the big teams which isn''t too bad whilst he''s been here). Were we heading down with Hughton? I''m not sure, you would have thought so had the other teams below us not be so bad. But think about it, I think suggesting he would have lost 4 games in a row means that you seem to have an agenda and are blinded by a ''new manager syndrome'' or something. I realise you don''t like Hughton, but although i''m not gonna say he would''ve done this or would''ve done that, you can only see that in his time here, he hasn''t lost more than 2 PL all season. For him to lose 4 games in a row is quite something, but not impossible. But like I say, is it that you love Adams or because you hate Hughton so much to suggest that there is no way possible with such certainty, that he would not have even got a point. I know i''m repeating myself, but people keep on responding to my posts because i think its likely that he would have gotten a point, I think thats fair enough...and by calling it utter rubbish shows that you don''t actually have a brain, yes you can disagree and say Hughtons away record was terrible and he would have lost against liverpool thats fair enough, but to say that there is an absolute improbability of him getting anything from the games that Adams has had is ridiculous.[/quote]

 

Let it go Miggy, it was Coco who got us into this bloody position in the first place.

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I give up. Are people this ret@rded to not even think if there is a possibility? "No I hate hughton and he can''t possibly have done better than Adams"

really?

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[quote user="jas the barclay king"]I think we might have...he hadn''t lost the dressing room and seemed to have a knack of pulling it out the bag when needed...

[/quote]What like against the Baggies?

What we need is to go down and shift some of the dead weight who dont want to be here and are not good enough:WhitsFerRvWfirst names that spring to mind

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I''m disappointed he got sacked when he did because there will forever be the ''what if Hughton was still in charge...'' argument.

Bottom line for me is that for the first time in a loooong time, I remembered the excitement and exhilaration of going to Carrow rd. I pay my money to be entertained. Yes I understand the financial aspect and was always accepting that it was results that mattered and staying in the PL, but it was only while watching the Liverpool game that I realised how far away from what I enjoyed watching we''d become.

Hughtons first season was forgivable as he had a poorish PL squad and issues to sort. Doing it by focusing more on defence than attack was frustrating but ultimately successful and therefore it was job done, onwards and upwards the following season. Exciting players came into the squad and things look good for a more balanced, forward thinking approach.....but unfortunately this never materialised and we have gone backwards as a squad. Again, this could''ve been bearable as it''s understandable some signings won''t work out, but only bearable if we stayed away from trouble. We haven''t done that and we''ve played some rotten stuff along the way. Hughton has put us in this (false IMO) position.

To say we could be a point better off under Hughton is irrelevant to me. Even though we lost the game, I thoroughly enjoyed my Easter Sunday and was quite happy to think and talk about the game afterwards (something I rarely do after a loss) because it was the exciting Norwich again, the never say die Norwich. I don''t want suicidal attacking (which it certainly wasn''t), I just want attacking threat and all round entertaining play, something that has been in incredibly short supply for nearly 2 years.

I don''t want Adams to remain in charge and in no way were we perfect against Liverpool (and the less said about yesterday the better) but it is ridiculous to lay any blame at his door. 5 games with a squad stuck firmly in one mindset - don''t lose.

I hope he goes back to the youth side, moves onwards in his career and a big thank you to him for reminding me why I started going and loved to go to Carrow rd.

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Most posters seem to have conveniently forgotten that we only conceded 2 goals at home in the last four months and one of those a penalty.

My view is that the outrageous and vicious comments on this board from the moment Hughton was appointed are the main cause of the clubs disintegration and downfall.

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