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Patches OHoolahan

Quality squad, weak management

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I''ve seen several posters state that our squad lacks quality and that is why we''re going down. I completely reject that. This is the strongest squad we have had since the early 90s, the problem has been that Hughton et al have failed to carve a successful team out of the squad. This has meant that good players have gradually deteriorated in quality, because of the morale sapping exercise that we and they have endured for most of the season.

Think back to the start of the season, we were all excited by the acquisitions of RvW, Fer, Hooper and Redmond, but the way in which they have been deployed has stifled their natural game. I understand why Hughton set up as he did, but his style did not make the most of our assets.

What I hope for next season, whichever league we are in and whoever our manager is, is that we play in a style suited to our players and to our club.

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Really Herman? Compare this squad to last seasons, or the season before and in terms of quality throughout the team, the current team are miles ahead. What has unfortunately happened, is that the team has been gutted of the heart and spirit that inspired us during the Lambert era.

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"you''re only as good as your strikers"

as they say. There''s a whole range of reasons why we are getting relegated, each as important as the other.

Chris Hughton and his back room staff

Strikers not scoring when given clear opportunities

Poor away form

Not enough investment in January

Bad buys (RVW, Elmander, Becchio)

No proper captain (despite being excellent the previous year)

The only attacking midfielder we have wants out.

CEO, many mistakes made this season from him, terrible year with many co(k ups.

Adams inexperience (although I don''t exactly blame him for his appointment, his tactics have been naive, but again what do you expect from someone who isn''t a proper manager? He comes off the best in this really)

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It''s been a close relegation battle between a lot of clubs so it would have been very much the same regardless of the manager. After a dozen games it was obvious that it would be a close run thing for us.

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[quote user="Patches OHoolahan"]Really Herman? Compare this squad to last seasons, or the season before and in terms of quality throughout the team, the current team are miles ahead. What has unfortunately happened, is that the team has been gutted of the heart and spirit that inspired us during the Lambert era.[/quote]Can you quantify that please?

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passing has been very poor recently - so much possession given away... if being very harsh id say Ruddy and Snodgrass are the only "premiership" quality players at the moment... imo.

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I wouldn''t go as far as to say our squad is quality. However a decent manager and premier league standard coaches would have had this group of players pushing mid table in my opinion. Although there are many who continue to bang on about the squad not being good enough because it''s easier than admitting that they were wrong about Hughton being up to the job. I also think many don''t want to accept that their beloved owners have failed them once again. Are these people seriously suggesting that the current squad is weaker than the previous two seasons? Or that the likes of Hull, Palace, Sunderland, Stoke, West Brom, villa, all have superior squads?

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Quality squad? No. Below average quality squad (for the Premiership) IMO. Fact is every team improved the quality of their squad, as did we, but our squad has proven to be below average, and lacking depth.

Right back and wingers being two examples, where the net result is the entire team lacks pace and hence to try and compensate for that it loses shape...

... IMO it''ll be fine in the division below and that ought to restore confidence in the team, it''ll all depend on the kind of start that we get. We must not be complacent, but we should be a lot better than those teams...

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How do you quantify opinion Morty?

How do you quantify application?

How do you quantify attitude?

How do you quantify morale?

But without those you can have the best players in the world and they will not perform.

The players Lambert had were not as good, but they had the right belief to do the job.

We have seen highly rated players almost have their careers ruined by negativity. We will be asking ourselves next season "Why didn''t they play like that for us" when they find new clubs.

Perhaps then we will see what has happened.

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The big problem of the last 2 seasons has been scoring goals.

Our failure to get anyone decent in January is very disappointing.

The club tell us there''s no value to be had in January...

...Shane Long over RVW or Hooper every time.

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I don''t think it was an unrealistic expectation at the beginning of the season to have at least been competitive with Cardiff, Crystal Palace and Hull. However, our approach at Hull continued the theme from the previous season and set the tone for this. Let''s hope the board doesn''t compound its error in not acting sooner by failing to appoint an experienced management team for next season''s campaign. A wholly avoidable relegation.

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[quote user="Yellow Wall"]How do you quantify opinion Morty?

How do you quantify application?

How do you quantify attitude?

How do you quantify morale?

But without those you can have the best players in the world and they will not perform.

The players Lambert had were not as good, but they had the right belief to do the job.

We have seen highly rated players almost have their careers ruined by negativity. We will be asking ourselves next season "Why didn''t they play like that for us" when they find new clubs.

Perhaps then we will see what has happened.[/quote]I would say that if you were quantifying the overall quality of a squad, then the league table may be a handy ready reckoner....

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The gamble of buying unproven Premiership strikers hoping one of them comes up trumps instead against of paying a premium for a couple of proven 10 goal per season strikers has failed dismally.

Our marque signing in the summer must be a manager of proven experience who can raise the present zero confidence level of the squad but can also get Hooper scoring alongside a regular target man partner.

Elmander can go back to Turkey and I would loan RVW back to Holland so try and recapture his goal scoring touch.

We are in for interesting times once again.

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[quote user="morty"][quote user="Yellow Wall"]How do you quantify opinion Morty?

How do you quantify application?

How do you quantify attitude?

How do you quantify morale?

But without those you can have the best players in the world and they will not perform.

The players Lambert had were not as good, but they had the right belief to do the job.

We have seen highly rated players almost have their careers ruined by negativity. We will be asking ourselves next season "Why didn''t they play like that for us" when they find new clubs.

Perhaps then we will see what has happened.[/quote]I would say that if you were quantifying the overall quality of a squad, then the league table may be a handy ready reckoner....[/quote]If you take that argument to its logical conclusion, Morty, then you''re saying that Everton''s overall squad is better than Man U''s . At the moment, NINE points better. Are you really saying that, or is it merely a  case of the Management at Goodison this season being better than that at OT?I''ve not been on this board for ages, as I''ve had lots of stuff going on in my life, and have not really been in the mood to argue over a relegation which I''ve seen as inevitable for weeks (months?!) .The club has got many, many issues to confront over the coming months,as a result of the abysmal way it''s been run over the last 2 yrs, and while I''m keen that they should, I''ve just not generally got the time to debate them right now.

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Our squad has some quality but too many players not good enough.

For all the endeavour players like Whittaker, Russ Martin and BJ should be never be near a starting prem 11. Talent wise the belong in the championship.

Of our quality players, well there''s Ruddy, Fer, Tettey, Snodgrass, Pilkington, Hoolahan, Olsson and Hooper. All good enough for the premiership in my opinion, but due to poor management they have suffered.

And then we have players like Redmond & RVW. So much was expected of these two, but they''ve failed miserably. Redmond may get the chance with us next year, however RVW career with us is nearly over. And he will go down as our biggest ever flop.

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Whether or not players are premier or not is always a difficult one, I for instance see BJ as an assett at this level depsite him not being the most talented. But for me, its about the strikers.........the signings overall didnt pay off and had they even say gained us 5 more goals between them...and they HAVE had chances, then we would not be in the bottom three right now.

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This squad is rubbish assembled by a rubbish manager... to be honest we are so rubbish i would be embarrassed to stay in the premier league... don''t get me wrong i would take it but we are an embarrassment, the way you see other teams busting a gut and you look at a good lot of our spineless performances ? utterly pathetic [:$]

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[quote user="Making Plans"]Quality squad on paper, rubbish on the pitch. [/quote]

Pretty much agree with that.We have a squad that is at least equal in potential quality to any of the present bottom half sides.But for whatever reason not enough of our players achieved anywhere near their potentials this season whilst other teams players have.Squad good enough - performances both individual and team not good enough.

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Results and performances are indicators of the quality of the squad. They are not as good as we thought they were. However better management would have improved the players. Just watched Palace a squad with perhaps less quality but with effective management.

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So, hang on, let me get this straight.How do people know that our squad is good enough quality when a fair few of them haven''t played for another Premiership team, and the table clearly shows they are not good enough.Are people going by how good they are on FIFA 14?

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Its an unbalanced squad if you ask me.We have decent strikers and decent midfielders but no one has found a mix that works well on a consistent basis. Hughton failed to sign that player who would link the two together.We also lack pace throughout the side. Only Redmond has genuine pace but even he seems a bit uncertain how to use it.I''d also say that the big name, better paid players have failed to produce.Of Hughton''s signings from last summer the only player you could say was a success is Olsson. Fer and Hooper have produced intermittently. Redmond and Elmander rarely. RvW not at all.

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[quote user="Patches OHoolahan"]Really Herman? Compare this squad to last seasons, or the season before and in terms of quality throughout the team, the current team are miles ahead. What has unfortunately happened, is that the team has been gutted of the heart and spirit that inspired us during the Lambert era.[/quote]

The current team isn''t miles ahead of last seasons. It was roughly the same with a few untested additions. They cost a lot more than what we have bought before, but they came from leagues on a par with the Championship. (One from the Champs, but very young). As has been said, on paper it looked ok, but nothing better than low to mid Prem. Add to that chronic mismanagement and we get where we are now.

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The main responsibilities of management must surely be to get results, to motivate players to get the most out of them and to nurture, improve and develop potential.

Our management this season has not won enough points, do not seem to have motivated the players and, although we bought a great deal of potential, it has not been developed or improved. In fact a great many individual''s performances have been much worse at the end of the season than the beginning.

Is this the fault of the players or the coaches and the manager?

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This sort of thing annoys me. I heard someone on Canary Call saying it was the best squad we''d ever had earllier in this season. At the time I tweeted about how ridiculous that statement was.

Maybe lots of Norwich fans are experts on Dutch and Portugeuse leagues but had anyone actually seen Fer and Van Wolfswinkel play. Elmander had one half-decent season at Bolton but that was it and Redmond is a young winger. Always likely to be inconsistent.

Better than Lambert''s team. Well, even Morison, who got a lot of stick, managed 10 goals in his first season. Did Holt get 15? Compare that to this year. Elmander and RVW both with 1, Hooper: 6.

Of course, the manager has to take responsibility for the way that they set up and considering he wanted us to play one up front, there is an argument to be had that he signed the wrong strikers for the system but it is not a strong squad.

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[quote user="psychedeliasmith"]This sort of thing annoys me. I heard someone on Canary Call saying it was the best squad we''d ever had earllier in this season. At the time I tweeted about how ridiculous that statement was.

Maybe lots of Norwich fans are experts on Dutch and Portugeuse leagues but had anyone actually seen Fer and Van Wolfswinkel play. Elmander had one half-decent season at Bolton but that was it and Redmond is a young winger. Always likely to be inconsistent.

Better than Lambert''s team. Well, even Morison, who got a lot of stick, managed 10 goals in his first season. Did Holt get 15? Compare that to this year. Elmander and RVW both with 1, Hooper: 6.

Of course, the manager has to take responsibility for the way that they set up and considering he wanted us to play one up front, there is an argument to be had that he signed the wrong strikers for the system but it is not a strong squad.[/quote]

This is by no means the best squad we have ever had.

The shame for me during the last game was this..... remove skill, ability etc etc Manchester United seemed physically more powerful and significantly faster in most positions over the pitch.

The only place where we have had pace and power is in defence up front and in midfield we are not fast enough.

Which one player in our squad is worth more than 10 million? Snoddy is our best player but even he has no pace which would take him to a top 6 team.

Even the last relegated Norwich City team had a better forward line.... much better

CH''s only mistake was the forwards not one good signing even redmond has no final product and as good as he will be is not the player to have saved us.

RVW might even be one of the worst players I have ever seen playing for Norwich in the Premier league an utter catastrophe

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[quote user="morty"]So, hang on, let me get this straight.How do people know that our squad is good enough quality when a fair few of them haven''t played for another Premiership team, and the table clearly shows they are not good enough.[/quote]That''s not quite true however. There are many reasons a side can be relegated beyond being one of the worst three squads in the league. There can be unrest at the club, poor management, poor leadership from the boardroom, injuries to key players, the confidence from being on a good run, complacency at the club.Look at Aston Villa, turmoil in the dressing room with coaches getting the chop, an injury to their key striker and they can hardly buy a result.As an example, Man United finished 1st last season, with almost exactly the same set of players they are finishing with around 25 less points.In the end, if we do have one of the worst three squads in the league, the blame falls on whoever signed the players.

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[quote user="treacletown07"]The gamble of buying unproven Premiership strikers hoping one of them comes up trumps instead against of paying a premium for a couple of proven 10 goal per season strikers has failed dismally.

Our marque signing in the summer must be a manager of proven experience who can raise the present zero confidence level of the squad but can also get Hooper scoring alongside a regular target man partner.

Elmander can go back to Turkey and I would loan RVW back to Holland so try and recapture his goal scoring touch.

We are in for interesting times once again.[/quote]

There isn''t ANYONE that will help Hooper score in the PL. He''s utter bollocks. One of, if not the worst PL striker this year.

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jaemae2 wrote the following post at 2014-04-28 9:56 AM:

There isn''t ANYONE that will help Hooper score in the PL. He''s utter b******s. One of, if not the worst PL striker this

Not quite, I would award that accolade to RVW with Elmander a close second, followed by your man Hooper!

With the lowest goal scored column in the EPL, it figures!

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