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Ok. Why didn't we go for it more?

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JF wrote the following post at 04/05/2014 6:57 PM:

Jenkins wrote the following post at 04/05/2014 6:48 PM:

How do you know that JF

You didn''t think we would get anything out of this game

I don''t know that for sure but come on after their run against the top sides can you really see them losing both now? No I didn''t think we would get anything, after the Man U game it looked like certain players had given up. and under normal circumstances what a great point it would have been. I apologise for not celebrating it because anything less than 3 realistically sent us down.

Every game at this stage of the season has it''s own little sub plot. It''s a shame West Brom are no longer in the mixer, but even so it''s very hard to call the results.

We are still in with a fighting chance, that''s the best we can hope for the way things have gone.

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On balance Nutty and all things considered, I agree with you that the Board have done a good job. Certainly, in the McNally and Bowcott era. And I''ll never criticise Delia.

But - and it''s a big but - sticking with Hughton was a mistake. Championship football next season will be a consequence of that mistake.

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As sad as it may be to some people the OP is correct. We needed a win.

The result today has made West Brom safe (unless we beat Arsenal about 17-0).

West Brom are the team travelling to Sunderland.

Think of all the posts at the end of last season when West Brom ''were on the beach''.

Well .......... they''re on the beach again now!

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[quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="Kingston Yellow"]LDC - "I saw it as a long term appointment and I am sure the board did too."

Aligning yourself to the Board doesn''t make your support of Hughton any less stupid.

Stupid is and always will be stupid.[/quote]For gawds sake can''t you lot forget Hughton?      Adams is in charge - he has the responsibility.   Today we needed a win at all costs.  And we didn''t.

[/quote]True, but the reason we needed a win today was because our away record under Houghton wasP16 W2 D2 L14Which, apart from the "Big Teams", included defeats against:HullNewcastleCardiffWest HamAston VillaSouthamptonSwanseaSo in that context, a point away at Chelsea, a team who would have gone top of the premier league if they''d won, is extremely creditable.And yet there you were defending Houghton''s record as a manager, and here you are now criticising the interim appointment because he couldn''t take a turd and buff it up into something like solid gold.  What we did today was as good as anything away under Houghton but you just can''t let the scales fall from your eyes.

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[quote user="Yellow Wall"]As sad as it may be to some people the OP is correct. We needed a win.

The result today has made West Brom safe (unless we beat Arsenal about 17-0).

West Brom are the team travelling to Sunderland.

Think of all the posts at the end of last season when West Brom ''were on the beach''.

Well .......... they''re on the beach again now![/quote]

Had Adams gone for broke at the end we''d have lost.

Chelsea''s possession stats were ridiculous enough without us giving them even more space.

There were times in many games before this one that we should have gone all out to win. Sadly most of them were under Hughton.

Adams was pretty much given that Fulham game to save us.

Had that game been today and not three matches ago, I think we''d have won.

Whilst we all know today was the last chance, to think we could have taken three points there is dream world stuff.

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A win was almost essential today, but if Sunderland start to feel the pressure and implode against two decent footballing teams (given their terrible home record), it might be one of the most vital draws in our history.

We would have been done and dusted today if Hughton was the manager, and that is coming from someone who defended him until it became untenable.

Put it this way - would you rather have "given it a go" and lost 1-0 and be relegated, or get an unlikely point and at least still have a very slim chance of survival?

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[quote user="Bor Bor Bor"][quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="Kingston Yellow"]LDC - "I saw it as a long term appointment and I am sure the board did too."

Aligning yourself to the Board doesn''t make your support of Hughton any less stupid.

Stupid is and always will be stupid.[/quote]For gawds sake can''t you lot forget Hughton?      Adams is in charge - he has the responsibility.   Today we needed a win at all costs.  And we didn''t.[/quote]True, but the reason we needed a win today was because our away record under Houghton wasP16 W2 D2 L14Which, apart from the "Big Teams", included defeats against:HullNewcastleCardiffWest HamAston VillaSouthamptonSwanseaSo in that context, a point away at Chelsea, a team who would have gone top of the premier league if they''d won, is extremely creditable.And yet there you were defending Houghton''s record as a manager, and here you are now criticising the interim appointment because he couldn''t take a turd and buff it up into something like solid gold.  What we did today was as good as anything away under Houghton but you just can''t let the scales fall from your eyes.[/quote]

Baloney.  I see things as I see them today.   Not as they were four weeks or eight weeks ago.   I  let Hughton go the week he was sacked - it seems to be others that can''t let it go.   I started the thread with only the thought of what we needed TODAY in my mind.  It was about what we needed today. Nothing else. 

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The OP has a valid point. Chelsea were not at their best after their midweek game, and although our players were aware of the need for points, they seemed to lack passing accuracy even during the earlier stages of the game, which with tiredness got even worse. So maybe Adams as a caretaker manager felt that he''d rather add a point at Stamford Bridge to his CV than to take more gamble.

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But the draw still gives us a chance, going for it and losing does not, a win would have been fantastic a loss and we are out .we are still in this allbeit very slim chance,but better than no chance

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We would have been destroyed if we went for it any more.

In almost every position Chelsea where faster and tried to get in behind.

The only option was they way we played and hope for a break away goal.

We just don''t have enough pace either upfront with an actual fast striker, imagine one as fas as redmond and as large as Elmander thats the type we should have signed.

We also don''t have a fast midfielder who can power forward with the ball or a number 10 who can drop back to do that job (I had hoped Fer was that guy).

The best mid table sides have lots of pace and play the same game plan ...the top sides have to win at home so you defend and then open them up on the break.

I assumed CH knew this but from the signings we made.....

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Agree to a point FF, we could not just go gung-ho as it would have probably been suicide.

BUT playing down the clock in the final 10 when we have held them to 0-0, and when they need to chase the game themselves? What on earth made us think it was likelier that Sunderland would lose at home in both their final games, than us scoring a late winner? It seemed very odd tactics to me....we needed a win much more than a draw.

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[quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="Bor Bor Bor"][quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="Kingston Yellow"]LDC - "I saw it as a long term appointment and I am sure the board did too."

Aligning yourself to the Board doesn''t make your support of Hughton any less stupid.

Stupid is and always will be stupid.[/quote]For gawds sake can''t you lot forget Hughton?      Adams is in charge - he has the responsibility.   Today we needed a win at all costs.  And we didn''t.[/quote]True, but the reason we needed a win today was because our away record under Houghton wasP16 W2 D2 L14Which, apart from the "Big Teams", included defeats against:HullNewcastleCardiffWest HamAston VillaSouthamptonSwanseaSo in that context, a point away at Chelsea, a team who would have gone top of the premier league if they''d won, is extremely creditable.And yet there you were defending Houghton''s record as a manager, and here you are now criticising the interim appointment because he couldn''t take a turd and buff it up into something like solid gold.  What we did today was as good as anything away under Houghton but you just can''t let the scales fall from your eyes.[/quote]

Baloney.  I see things as I see them today.   Not as they were four weeks or eight weeks ago.   I  let Hughton go the week he was sacked - it seems to be others that can''t let it go.   I started the thread with only the thought of what we needed TODAY in my mind.  It was about what we needed today. Nothing else. 

[/quote]So all your weekly "give Houghton time, it''ll come good" posts were "as you saw them today?"  And you can''t understand why "what we needed today" is directly connected to all those missed opportunities that came and went before?You sound like an old boy who missed his last three eye tests and is only just realising what he''s staring at.

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You sound like an old boy who missed his last three eye tests and is only just realising what he''s staring at.

Convenient amnesia

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[quote user="Branston Pickle"]Agree to a point FF, we could not just go gung-ho as it would have probably been suicide.

BUT playing down the clock in the final 10 when we have held them to 0-0, and when they need to chase the game themselves? What on earth made us think it was likelier that Sunderland would lose at home in both their final games, than us scoring a late winner? It seemed very odd tactics to me....we needed a win much more than a draw.[/quote]

Its not easily done though the lads where out on their feet.

Maybe it could have been done via substitutions.....

Sunderland where the same just they got their penalty and we did not.

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To be fair to Adams, I thought Redmond for Elmander (alone) was one of the more ridiculous substitutions I had seen - BUT it was actually a superb decision and nearly resulted in a goal.

At least we have finally seen a bit of fight - too little too late perhaps!

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Actually, it''s runners from midfield which is more of a danger than 2 prone strikers up front.

The Redmond/Snodgrass move in the 2nd half was great to see, something which is rare for us and we should see more of IMHO. That wasn''t borne from having 2 out and out strikers.

Movement, imagination and fluidity is the key, not necessarily a flat 4-4-2.

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"Baloney. I see things as I see them today. Not as they were four weeks or eight weeks ago. I let Hughton go the week he was sacked - it seems to be others that can''t let it go. I started the thread with only the thought of what we needed TODAY in my mind. It was about what we needed today. Nothing else."

If thats the case LDC where all your threads based on what we needed TODAY in the games under Hughton that we lost and played appallingly in?

Why has your careful critical analysis of a failure to achieve the desired outcome only reared it''s head since the change in man in charge?

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[quote user="Kingston Yellow"]On balance Nutty and all things considered, I agree with you that the Board have done a good job. Certainly, in the McNally and Bowcott era. And I''ll never criticise Delia.

But - and it''s a big but - sticking with Hughton was a mistake. Championship football next season will be a consequence of that mistake.[/quote]

 

But that''s only true if I take your word that things would have been better if we''d changed the manager. But I can''t do that because in my experience it often goes the other way too. In my opinion it''s just as likely we could have got less points if we changed earlier.

 

 

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[quote user="Monty13"] LDC"Baloney. I see things as I see them today. Not as they were four weeks or eight weeks ago. I let Hughton go the week he was sacked - it seems to be others that can''t let it go. I started the thread with only the thought of what we needed TODAY in my mind. It was about what we needed today. Nothing else."

If thats the case LDC where all your threads based on what we needed TODAY in the games under Hughton that we lost and played appallingly in?

Why has your careful critical analysis of a failure to achieve the desired outcome only reared it''s head since the change in man in charge?[/quote]

But it hasn''t changed from manager to manager.  If Hughton was still in charge and we had the same situation today I would have saying the same things as I have on this thread.   Some of you seem to think everything has to have an agenda - well my only agenda is what I see and hear now.  The situation today imo demanded that in the last ten minutes  we should have pushed on - and we didn''t. No fresh legs, no all out assault to see if we could get the winner - which was so badly needed today.   People can hope that a draw is enough.  I don''t think it is. In fact I''m almost certain it isn''t enough.

Yes, I supported Hughton to start with, up to November last year, then I supported the board''s decision to keep him on after things started to look bleak.  Then as things seemed to improve around the Man City game and Spurs game, I started being more supportive of Hughton again.  But I still tore my hair out in his subs at West Ham, I still criticised him for several other things after that - paricularly the subs in the wba match where he appeared to run out of ideas.    People miss those things and just go on - oh there''s ldc again, up Hughton''s backside again.  You go on thinking that if you like - but you are wrong.  My views are not as simplistic as some of you like to think. 

Today was a situation on its own. We needed to win - but didn''t.  That is all.

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Spot on, NN - people seem so convinced that things would have been rosy had Hughton gone earlier, as though it is fact. It isn''t. Both Cardiff and Fulham got rid (Fulham more than once!) and they are both down, others got rid and were ok (Sunderland, WBA), others stuck and were ok (Stoke, West Ham, Villa). The fact is, it could have gone either way as others have proven.

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"But it hasn''t changed from manager to manager. If Hughton was still in charge and we had the same situation today I would have saying the same things as I have on this thread."

So I ask again where were these cutting analysis''s of Hughtons failings?

I don''t care whether you loved the last manager or not. I''m just confused why you''re suddenly so critical of the current one, rather than pulling the positives like you used to?

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[quote user="Monty13"]"But it hasn''t changed from manager to manager. If Hughton was still in charge and we had the same situation today I would have saying the same things as I have on this thread."

So I ask again where were these cutting analysis''s of Hughtons failings?

I don''t care whether you loved the last manager or not. I''m just confused why you''re suddenly so critical of the current one, rather than pulling the positives like you used to?[/quote]

I don''t get it - some people just seem to like things black and white all the time. In the real world they are not.   Most people just see what they want to see and assume everything I said about Hughton was positive - it was not - I criticised Hughton when I saw fit, I credited him when I saw fit.   The praise he got from me was down to his ideas of a consistent approach that would eventually lead to a progression in overall standard as the quality of player we got in was improved.   Not rocket science.  But he failed. No question.   I lost faith in him after the two Manchester results in November so if you want cutting analysis''s of Hughton''s failings, then I suggest you look to threads I posted on around those matches.  I''m fed up with trying to explain myself and my opinions. 

This thread posed a simple question - which was immediately pounced on - but many others are saying the same thing - including Mourinho for one.  Hughton has gone - and his name never entered my head until someone else mentioned him in a post, questioning my motives - again.  People should get over it.

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[quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="Monty13"]"But it hasn''t changed from manager to manager. If Hughton was still in charge and we had the same situation today I would have saying the same things as I have on this thread."


So I ask again where were these cutting analysis''s of Hughtons failings? I don''t care whether you loved the last manager or not. I''m just confused why you''re suddenly so critical of the current one, rather than pulling the positives like you used to?[/quote]


I don''t get it - some people just seem to like things black and white all the time. In the real world they are not.   Most people just see what they want to see and assume everything I said about Hughton was positive - it was not - I criticised Hughton when I saw fit, I credited him when I saw fit.   The praise he got from me was down to his ideas of a consistent approach that would eventually lead to a progression in overall standard as the quality of player we got in was improved.   Not rocket science.  But he failed. No question.   I lost faith in him after the two Manchester results in November so if you want cutting analysis''s of Hughton''s failings, then I suggest you look to threads I posted on around those matches.  I''m fed up with trying to explain myself and my opinions. 


This thread posed a simple question - which was immediately pounced on - but many others are saying the same thing - including Mourinho for one.  Hughton has gone - and his name never entered my head until someone else mentioned him in a post, questioning my motives - again.  People should get over it.





[/quote]

 

Lakey, honestly, you need to get over it. Since Hughton left I have seen YOU raise his name several times on different threads. Yet, after Paul Lambert left, if other posters even raised his name you were all over them like flies over manure, telling those posters they needed to let it go, we have moved on. Further, in the past, when the situation looked dire, you told others that we must always look for the positives. Now, when things look dire, you are certain we are going down. What happened to your positive approach under all circumstances? You don''t have to preach to others what the circumstances are. We all know it. But let''s stay positive until the last breath is drawn. You need to walk the talk Lakey....YOUR talk.

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[quote user="nutty nigel"] In my opinion it''s just as likely we could have got less points if we changed earlier.

 

 

[/quote]Who cares if we got less points!  We were getting enough under Hughton anyway. I don''t think Hughton''s time at the club will be remembered fondly that is for sure.

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[quote user="YankeeCanary"][quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="Monty13"]"But it hasn''t changed from manager to manager. If Hughton was still in charge and we had the same situation today I would have saying the same things as I have on this thread."

So I ask again where were these cutting analysis''s of Hughtons failings? I don''t care whether you loved the last manager or not. I''m just confused why you''re suddenly so critical of the current one, rather than pulling the positives like you used to?[/quote]

I don''t get it - some people just seem to like things black and white all the time. In the real world they are not.   Most people just see what they want to see and assume everything I said about Hughton was positive - it was not - I criticised Hughton when I saw fit, I credited him when I saw fit.   The praise he got from me was down to his ideas of a consistent approach that would eventually lead to a progression in overall standard as the quality of player we got in was improved.   Not rocket science.  But he failed. No question.   I lost faith in him after the two Manchester results in November so if you want cutting analysis''s of Hughton''s failings, then I suggest you look to threads I posted on around those matches.  I''m fed up with trying to explain myself and my opinions. 

This thread posed a simple question - which was immediately pounced on - but many others are saying the same thing - including Mourinho for one.  Hughton has gone - and his name never entered my head until someone else mentioned him in a post, questioning my motives - again.  People should get over it.[/quote]

 Lakey, honestly, you need to get over it. Since Hughton left I have seen YOU raise his name several times on different threads. Yet, after Paul Lambert left, if other posters even raised his name you were all over them like flies over manure, telling those posters they needed to let it go, we have moved on. Further, in the past, when the situation looked dire, you told others that we must always look for the positives. Now, when things look dire, you are certain we are going down. What happened to your positive approach under all circumstances? You don''t have to preach to others what the circumstances are. We all know it. But let''s stay positive until the last breath is drawn. You need to walk the talk Lakey....YOUR talk.[/quote]

Yankee, dear heart, I have moved on and only refer to Hughton when people mention him first - usually in trying to belittle me in some way.  I have no agenda except that I want to see the best for the club - and my opinions are as valid as anyone else''s.    This thread is a case in point. It was about today''s match, today''s team and was about how the team played today.   As for positivity - it is other people that class me as mr positive, not me.  I''ll be as positive as I can be, but it is not always going to be that way.  Today we could have been more positive in the last ten minutes - it was needed imo, in the circumstances we are in.  So in a way I am talking the talk, demanding positivity - or in this case bemoaning the fact that it didn''t seem to be there. 

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[quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="YankeeCanary"][quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="Monty13"]"But it hasn''t changed from manager to manager. If Hughton was still in charge and we had the same situation today I would have saying the same things as I have on this thread."



So I ask again where were these cutting analysis''s of Hughtons failings? I don''t care whether you loved the last manager or not. I''m just confused why you''re suddenly so critical of the current one, rather than pulling the positives like you used to?[/quote]


I don''t get it - some people just seem to like things black and white all the time. In the real world they are not.   Most people just see what they want to see and assume everything I said about Hughton was positive - it was not - I criticised Hughton when I saw fit, I credited him when I saw fit.   The praise he got from me was down to his ideas of a consistent approach that would eventually lead to a progression in overall standard as the quality of player we got in was improved.   Not rocket science.  But he failed. No question.   I lost faith in him after the two Manchester results in November so if you want cutting analysis''s of Hughton''s failings, then I suggest you look to threads I posted on around those matches.  I''m fed up with trying to explain myself and my opinions. 


This thread posed a simple question - which was immediately pounced on - but many others are saying the same thing - including Mourinho for one.  Hughton has gone - and his name never entered my head until someone else mentioned him in a post, questioning my motives - again.  People should get over it.
[/quote]

 Lakey, honestly, you need to get over it. Since Hughton left I have seen YOU raise his name several times on different threads. Yet, after Paul Lambert left, if other posters even raised his name you were all over them like flies over manure, telling those posters they needed to let it go, we have moved on. Further, in the past, when the situation looked dire, you told others that we must always look for the positives. Now, when things look dire, you are certain we are going down. What happened to your positive approach under all circumstances? You don''t have to preach to others what the circumstances are. We all know it. But let''s stay positive until the last breath is drawn. You need to walk the talk Lakey....YOUR talk.[/quote]


Yankee, dear heart, I have moved on and only refer to Hughton when people mention him first - usually in trying to belittle me in some way.  I have no agenda except that I want to see the best for the club - and my opinions are as valid as anyone else''s.    This thread is a case in point. It was about today''s match, today''s team and was about how the team played today.   As for positivity - it is other people that class me as mr positive, not me.  I''ll be as positive as I can be, but it is not always going to be that way.  Today we could have been more positive in the last ten minutes - it was needed imo, in the circumstances we are in.  So in a way I am talking the talk, demanding positivity - or in this case bemoaning the fact that it didn''t seem to be there. 



[/quote]

 

As I have pointed out to you before on your past transgressions, Lakey, when your moral compass is found to be wanting and you tell fibs then, after a while, you can''t even remember what the truth is any more. The following from your recent thread on, "Where Are You?" is simply an example of refuting what you said above. Try the truth my boy. It sets you free:

 

Your initial post from April 24th/2014  ( which you originated )

Where are you?   Still plenty of tickets available for the match on Sunday and at a cheap rate.  Where is your wonderful positive support for the new manager and to help the team over the line?  Possibly the most important game so far this season - and I thought real fans went to away games as well as home games? 


You can''t blame Hughton - he''s not here anymore
and I would have thought people would be falling over themselves to get to our next three matches.   Too far?   Ahh!  I''ll be there and if there are gaps in the crowd, don''t worry, I''ll make more noise myself to make up for it.   Can''t afford it?  Well, thats tough - just like I can''t afford to go to all the Carrow Rd games.  So for all the wonderful so called supporters that give me such a hard time for not going to enough matches - if you haven''t got your ticket yet, get off your backsides and do something about it.   Don''t forget - and as you are always telling me - you can''t have a valid opinion unless you are at the match.


Well?

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What a shame that this has ended in the usual bitter attacks on LDC, when the OP was all about the Chelsea match and simply why we didnt go for it. Many others are in agreement and a few seem to disagree, lets leave it now shall we ffs.  

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If anyone can show me a "why didn''t we go for it?" Thread from Lake District Canary during our dreadful away run under the previous manager, I will gladly hold my hands up. Sadly he appears to have selective memory and double standards.

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