Anyone think we will struggle next year?

[star_manic 0]

The new manager situation was never going to be addressed until it was finalised exactly which league we were going to be in next season. The man we would want for the premiership would not consider signing for a championship club, and we should be unlikely to persuade him.

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

[quote user="Jenkins"]It has been missing Reggie, the difficulty is it is not something you can pick off the shelf. I think our success or failure next season will to a large part depend on this.[/quote]Well, precisely Jenks. That''s why the managerial appointment is so vital. The new man should have the sort of in depth knowledge to know the right candidates and to be able to attract them to Norwich. I agree it''s not like nipping down to Tesco''s to just grab one off the shelf, but we need to hit the ground running and a good statement of intent would be to have the squad fully in place good and early. What, imo , we do NOT need ,is the sort of silliness that''s happened all too often in the past when we''ve been scrabbling about in the transfer market still in mid August. Signing players good and early does not always guarantee success (witness RvW) but it''s a good start.

[Iwans Big Toe 312]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

[quote user="Iwans Big Toe"][quote user="Jimmy Smith"]I don''t think as many as you think will leave. We are in much better shape than last time and will probably have learnt our lesson from them too. Maybe after a couple more poop seasons we could be relegated again, but I find it hard to believe next season.[/quote]Sadly the current owners seem to lack the ability to learn from their mistakes and they continue to make the same ones over and over and over again. It seems to be their favourite past-time. The only thing that changes is the division that they make the mistakes in.Oh how I yearn for them to make a new and unexpected mistake. I fear though that they will stay true to form and we will see a (take your pick) Peter Grant/Brian Hamilton/Bryan Gunn/Chris Hughton/Glen Roeder-esque appointment. This will be closely followed by a fire-sale of any player that we get a phone call for and they will then be replaced by the likes of Jason Jarrett and Mark Fotheringham. [:$]

[/quote]

 

If you think back over the last 10 seasons you will understand why most people in the football world seem to view them as successful owners.

 

 

[/quote]It all depends on what you call "successful" Nigel.Yes there have been 3 promotions under the current owners, there have also been 3 relegation too, including the club sinking to it''s lowest league position for over 50 years (2nd bottom of the third tier). Yes there have been a couple of good managerial appointments, but for every Paul Lambert we have had a Peter Grant, Glenn Roeder and Bryan Gunn. I agree that the club is now financially stable and running in the black. This is Norwich City Football Club though, not M&S, the bank balance is not the main indicator of success, results and the league position are.Now don''t get me wrong, I''m not advocating throwing the baby out with the bath water and bringing back Robert Chase. I do fear though, that the board will resort to type and we will now be faced with a string of poor managerial appointments and the signing of, at best, average players. Meaning we will have a 5-7 year wait for the next promotion push. I hope that I am wrong and that the board have learned the lessons of previous mistakes. It would appear not though after allowing the Chris Hughton to sign mercenaries and has beens, much in the same way that Worthy did with players like Helveg and Jonsson.

[Mutley 73]

As other posters are saying until the manager is sorted out this is a question I am unable to give an answer to this. If ever the club needed leadership it is now!

[nutty nigel 7,509]

[quote user="Iwans Big Toe"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

[quote user="Iwans Big Toe"][quote user="Jimmy Smith"]I don''t think as many as you think will leave. We are in much better shape than last time and will probably have learnt our lesson from them too. Maybe after a couple more poop seasons we could be relegated again, but I find it hard to believe next season.[/quote]Sadly the current owners seem to lack the ability to learn from their mistakes and they continue to make the same ones over and over and over again. It seems to be their favourite past-time. The only thing that changes is the division that they make the mistakes in.Oh how I yearn for them to make a new and unexpected mistake. I fear though that they will stay true to form and we will see a (take your pick) Peter Grant/Brian Hamilton/Bryan Gunn/Chris Hughton/Glen Roeder-esque appointment. This will be closely followed by a fire-sale of any player that we get a phone call for and they will then be replaced by the likes of Jason Jarrett and Mark Fotheringham. [:$]

[/quote]

 

If you think back over the last 10 seasons you will understand why most people in the football world seem to view them as successful owners.

 

 

[/quote]It all depends on what you call "successful" Nigel.Yes there have been 3 promotions under the current owners, there have also been 3 relegation too, including the club sinking to it''s lowest league position for over 50 years (2nd bottom of the third tier). Yes there have been a couple of good managerial appointments, but for every Paul Lambert we have had a Peter Grant, Glenn Roeder and Bryan Gunn. I agree that the club is now financially stable and running in the black. This is Norwich City Football Club though, not M&S, the bank balance is not the main indicator of success, results and the league position are.Now don''t get me wrong, I''m not advocating throwing the baby out with the bath water and bringing back Robert Chase. I do fear though, that the board will resort to type and we will now be faced with a string of poor managerial appointments and the signing of, at best, average players. Meaning we will have a 5-7 year wait for the next promotion push. I hope that I am wrong and that the board have learned the lessons of previous mistakes. It would appear not though after allowing the Chris Hughton to sign mercenaries and has beens, much in the same way that Worthy did with players like Helveg and Jonsson.

[/quote]

 

OK. Let''s take a look at what we have had since Watling sold his shares to Smith&Jones : -

 

4 seasons in the premier league.

3 seasons top six champs including champions, runners up and a play off final.

3 other top half finishes in the champs.

4 bottom hald finishes in the champs.

1 relegation from the champs.

1 championship win in league one.

 

Be careful what you wish for. 

 

 

[It's Character Forming 1,160]

Complacency is always a huge risk when you go down a league - players thinking they should be able to walk it.

 

Remember ''95 and Chase having those t-shirts done saying "on loan for one season only" ?  And we''ll never forget what happened in our first game down in L1.

 

So it''s a worry.  But until we get in a new manager and get the squad overhauled, it''s premature to say we''re going to struggle.

[Ivan Easter 0]

[quote user="hurricane"]If we get a manager and backroom team in quick followed by the transfers in and out ready for a decent pre season then can''t see why we should. The next moves by the board and speed of them will be crucial.[/quote]

[Norfolk Mustard 94]

No-one can predict a struggle or otherwise without knowing who the manager or players will be. Whatever happens we need to be in safe hands - although many of us thought that was the case when we appointed Chris Hughton!...

[morty 0]

If we do struggle will chris hughton still get the blame?

[;)]

[Salopian 1]

With departures of loan players, a few players leaving in response to bids by other clubs, and perhaps the odd one or two being released, we shall be well down in numbers.

Next season will begin the rebuilding which may take a few seasons before we have good quality in most positions and outstanding quality in several.

We have to sign to replace those leaving, which could be seven or eight of the first team squad, and there will not be many juniors coming through immediately. It may be even the signing pattern of the past two years - two or three very good players and a few not so bad ones. There may be some TV money and the parachute payments, but income could suffer in other places.

What I am suggesting is that even with a very good new manager until we have done a measure a building the upper half may be a reasonable ambition. Fulham have a better squad, and money, Cardiff have useful players, and there will be those who failed to get promotion this season, plus Wolves resurrected. It will not be a pushover!

[Iwans Big Toe 312]

[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="Iwans Big Toe"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

[quote user="Iwans Big Toe"][quote user="Jimmy Smith"]I don''t think as many as you think will leave. We are in much better shape than last time and will probably have learnt our lesson from them too. Maybe after a couple more poop seasons we could be relegated again, but I find it hard to believe next season.[/quote]Sadly the current owners seem to lack the ability to learn from their mistakes and they continue to make the same ones over and over and over again. It seems to be their favourite past-time. The only thing that changes is the division that they make the mistakes in.Oh how I yearn for them to make a new and unexpected mistake. I fear though that they will stay true to form and we will see a (take your pick) Peter Grant/Brian Hamilton/Bryan Gunn/Chris Hughton/Glen Roeder-esque appointment. This will be closely followed by a fire-sale of any player that we get a phone call for and they will then be replaced by the likes of Jason Jarrett and Mark Fotheringham. [:$]

[/quote]

 

If you think back over the last 10 seasons you will understand why most people in the football world seem to view them as successful owners.

 

 

[/quote]It all depends on what you call "successful" Nigel.Yes there have been 3 promotions under the current owners, there have also been 3 relegation too, including the club sinking to it''s lowest league position for over 50 years (2nd bottom of the third tier). Yes there have been a couple of good managerial appointments, but for every Paul Lambert we have had a Peter Grant, Glenn Roeder and Bryan Gunn. I agree that the club is now financially stable and running in the black. This is Norwich City Football Club though, not M&S, the bank balance is not the main indicator of success, results and the league position are.Now don''t get me wrong, I''m not advocating throwing the baby out with the bath water and bringing back Robert Chase. I do fear though, that the board will resort to type and we will now be faced with a string of poor managerial appointments and the signing of, at best, average players. Meaning we will have a 5-7 year wait for the next promotion push. I hope that I am wrong and that the board have learned the lessons of previous mistakes. It would appear not though after allowing the Chris Hughton to sign mercenaries and has beens, much in the same way that Worthy did with players like Helveg and Jonsson.

[/quote]

 

OK. Let''s take a look at what we have had since Watling sold his shares to Smith&Jones : -

 

4 seasons in the premier league.

3 seasons top six champs including champions, runners up and a play off final.

3 other top half finishes in the champs.

4 bottom hald finishes in the champs.

1 relegation from the champs.

1 championship win in league one.

 

Be careful what you wish for. 

 

 

[/quote]I''m not sure that I''ve quite explained myself properly Nigel. I''m more along the lines of trying to manage people''s expectations. There will be Norwich fans that are completely unrealistic in their ambitions for next season. They will want us to appoint an internationally renowned manager like Bielsa, be raiding top clubs for their best players and challenging for the automatic promotion spots. The track record of this board seems to suggest that that will probably not happen. We will in all likelihood have to endure another 4-6 years of poor decision making from the people who run the club until they eventually get the right combination of players and manager again. They do not have a good record of rebuilding quickly, and make no mistake this football club need rebuilding once again.The over-riding sentiment that I am trying to get across in my posts is that there needs to be a bit of patience from people. There is not going to be a new billionaire owner who wants to buy the club and turn us into Champions League contenders (infact the FFP rules have been introduced so that that doesn''t happen because UEFA want to help protect the interests of the big teams like Real, Barca, Man Utd and Bayern, because that serves their financial interests). I doubt there is anyone out there who would do a much better job than the current board. So lets wait and see what happens, but don''t expect them to get it right first time, because they rarely have (and if they do it will be a nice surprise). I believe you have said before that football is cyclical, and we will (probably) find ourselves dining at the Premier League''s table once again in the not too distant future

p.s. you missed 2 relegations from the Premier League from your list. [:P]

[nutty nigel 7,509]

[quote user="Iwans Big Toe"][quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="Iwans Big Toe"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

[quote user="Iwans Big Toe"][quote user="Jimmy Smith"]I don''t think as many as you think will leave. We are in much better shape than last time and will probably have learnt our lesson from them too. Maybe after a couple more poop seasons we could be relegated again, but I find it hard to believe next season.[/quote]Sadly the current owners seem to lack the ability to learn from their mistakes and they continue to make the same ones over and over and over again. It seems to be their favourite past-time. The only thing that changes is the division that they make the mistakes in.Oh how I yearn for them to make a new and unexpected mistake. I fear though that they will stay true to form and we will see a (take your pick) Peter Grant/Brian Hamilton/Bryan Gunn/Chris Hughton/Glen Roeder-esque appointment. This will be closely followed by a fire-sale of any player that we get a phone call for and they will then be replaced by the likes of Jason Jarrett and Mark Fotheringham. [:$]

[/quote]

 

If you think back over the last 10 seasons you will understand why most people in the football world seem to view them as successful owners.

 

 

[/quote]It all depends on what you call "successful" Nigel.Yes there have been 3 promotions under the current owners, there have also been 3 relegation too, including the club sinking to it''s lowest league position for over 50 years (2nd bottom of the third tier). Yes there have been a couple of good managerial appointments, but for every Paul Lambert we have had a Peter Grant, Glenn Roeder and Bryan Gunn. I agree that the club is now financially stable and running in the black. This is Norwich City Football Club though, not M&S, the bank balance is not the main indicator of success, results and the league position are.Now don''t get me wrong, I''m not advocating throwing the baby out with the bath water and bringing back Robert Chase. I do fear though, that the board will resort to type and we will now be faced with a string of poor managerial appointments and the signing of, at best, average players. Meaning we will have a 5-7 year wait for the next promotion push. I hope that I am wrong and that the board have learned the lessons of previous mistakes. It would appear not though after allowing the Chris Hughton to sign mercenaries and has beens, much in the same way that Worthy did with players like Helveg and Jonsson.

[/quote]

 

OK. Let''s take a look at what we have had since Watling sold his shares to Smith&Jones : -

 

4 seasons in the premier league.

3 seasons top six champs including champions, runners up and a play off final.

3 other top half finishes in the champs.

4 bottom hald finishes in the champs.

1 relegation from the champs.

1 championship win in league one.

 

Be careful what you wish for. 

 

 

[/quote]I''m not sure that I''ve quite explained myself properly Nigel. I''m more along the lines of trying to manage people''s expectations. There will be Norwich fans that are completely unrealistic in their ambitions for next season. They will want us to appoint an internationally renowned manager like Bielsa, be raiding top clubs for their best players and challenging for the automatic promotion spots. The track record of this board seems to suggest that that will probably not happen. We will in all likelihood have to endure another 4-6 years of poor decision making from the people who run the club until they eventually get the right combination of players and manager again. They do not have a good record of rebuilding quickly, and make no mistake this football club need rebuilding once again.The over-riding sentiment that I am trying to get across in my posts is that there needs to be a bit of patience from people. There is not going to be a new billionaire owner who wants to buy the club and turn us into Champions League contenders (infact the FFP rules have been introduced so that that doesn''t happen because UEFA want to help protect the interests of the big teams like Real, Barca, Man Utd and Bayern, because that serves their financial interests). I doubt there is anyone out there who would do a much better job than the current board. So lets wait and see what happens, but don''t expect them to get it right first time, because they rarely have (and if they do it will be a nice surprise). I believe you have said before that football is cyclical, and we will (probably) find ourselves dining at the Premier League''s table once again in the not too distant future

p.s. you missed 2 relegations from the Premier League from your list. [:P]

[/quote]

 

Blimey Mr Toe! I can''t believe anyone reads my posts and remembers what I put!! Yes I do agree football is cyclical. And I agree with your points about expectations. I think our expectations are a curse but they will always be there. Can we really expect better than the last 15 years? Especially when we consider what''s happened to our game in general over that period? I would say not but plenty think we continually under achieve. On here today we see cries for Delia to step down and make way for someone with more money to invest. And yet so many of those with more money to invest have watched Delia''s club out perform theirs. I think history will show that with Smith & Jones at the helm we''ve safely negotiated some of the most difficult years for football clubs. And we did it with many great seasons and still have our great assets that they inherited. In fact those assets have been improved no end as any tour around Carrow road and Colney will quite plainly show.

 

Will the board get it right with the next appointment? Who knows. Appointing managers seems to be a lottery. I see no blue print for success. Some managers fit to some clubs and not others. Our record is no worse or better than others. You can see this by taking a look at the LMA site and other clubs managerial histories. I thin the Paul Lambert years here were an exception which we rightly lauded him for. But his subsequent years at Aston Villa won''t afford him the same legend status there.

 

We won''t get the patience we crave. The blame games has already gone through Hughton and McNally to Delia. After the dust settles the board will get 10 games next season. If by that time we are not top six the impatience will rise to the fore again. Perhaps it should. Perhaps some of us are too accepting. But then again supporting the football club means different things to different people. This message board is always polarised even in times of great success. I see that as a good thing. I enjoy the debate and respect people with differing views. But there are some on here who use dishonesty to promote their views and I will never  respect them.

 

I didn''t list the relegations but they make no difference to the bigger picture. In fact I''d go as far as to say that if the majority of the last 15 years had been spent in the Premier League they wouldn''t have been so much fun. Would they?

 

 

[dylanisabaddog 4,875]

Just finished watching Brighton v Derby.  I hate to say it, but I can''t see us putting a team together over the summer that will match either of those teams.

[hogesar 9,618]

What do you class as struggling?

To suggest we won''t be able to match either Brighton or Derby is illogical as on paper I see us as already better - as would most of the footballing world but if you wish to live in this doom-and-gloom encapsulated world then I suppose you could ironically say we don''t have a 20 goal a season striker like Chris Martin. I''d argue and say for the Championship we do - Hooper.

Anyway, I''d like to think we will finish in the play-offs. Unfortunately so do 11 other teams in that bloody league. I have a feeling we might start slow - quite common for teams that get relegated to shake it off. But I think we''ll do well.

[......and Smith must score. 1,336]

Well for someone generally so pessimistic I''m feeling stupidly opimistic about our prospects next year.Some of our better players will leave but we''ll still have some decent players at Championship level. Coupled with being debt free we''ve £23m in parachute payments and 20K-odd season ticket holders. Financially this is easily the best position we''ve ever been in following  relegation.It''s going to need a spectacularly bad managerial appointment not to make a decent fist of it and I''ll be very disappointed if we don''t make the play-offs at least.