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Tetteys Jig

can we tick Holland off the list of where we buy players from?

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Maybe tick Leeds off too. Perhaps the ring road isn''t a bad shout! We could tempt shackell, green and Martin back :-P

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[quote user="KeiranShikari"]Fer is good and any striker would have struggled in our team this season.

[/quote] I bet Wilfred bony would have done alright.

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I said it at the beginning of the season and I''ll say it again now........our dalliance with overseas players has been nothing if disastrous over the last few decades.

It all started with Muzinic and it has been going downhill ever since..........

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Why on earth would you tickt Leeds off?

Snoddy (despite being far from his biggest fan) HAS been our best player over these past two seasons, Johnson despite his shortcomings that should have restricted him from ever being a PL player has probably been our most consistent CM for two seasons considering Howsons injuries, poor form at times, Tetterys large spells on the side lines, Fer''s inconsistcy, And no other CM being near the side. And Howson is very talented and if he stays he''ll be one of the top performers in the Championship overal next season.

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Snoddy has been good, Howson in patches has but looks light in the challenge sometimes, Johnson is a liability, not a bad free signing but not a premiership player, Becchio has been wasted.

6 out of 10 in total i''d say, maybe 7 considering they cost less than £5m combined

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[quote user="Jimmy Smith"]Snoddy has been good, Howson in patches has but looks light in the challenge sometimes, Johnson is a liability, not a bad free signing but not a premiership player, Becchio has been wasted.

6 out of 10 in total i''d say, maybe 7 considering they cost less than £5m combined[/quote]How often do other clubs get it right? Does every one of their signings turn out amazing? (Hint have a look at Spurs)The issue is not where we shop, but the price we pay. People can wring their hands all they want, but 8.5 million does not buy you Premiership quality.

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No of course not, there have been great successes in both Holland and Belgium eg Erikson and Benteke.Fer was not a failure but RVW was and even he may have performed better if he had played a different system and not got his confidence shot to bits. He has to move on for both parties sake now. I think we need to concentrate on British players for the championship though

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[quote user="Jimmy Smith"]You''re not wrong, have we ever signed a decent player from a team abroad?[/quote]

Yes, you just need to think about it a bit more.And don''t reply on the lines of "well you name one", use your brain before posting thses glib comments.

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Tettey. He has been good I guess. I don''t mean to sound like a xenophobe, clearly foreign signings work at other clubs but it''s a real mystery why we seem to struggle at it. Maric, Strihavka, RVW. I wonder if because we''re at such a competitive level compared to some, there''s no room for a ''settling in'' period.

Look at Dzeko for instance, he was useless for the first half season of his Man City career but because they are rich and have other players to bring in, they could give him time to get it right.

Say RVW had been given a proper rest and we had some good enough players to roll out while he found his feet, we''d probably all be forgiving him his slow start to the season and hope he''d find his feet next season. The fact is though that we''re relegated and it''s partly his fault.

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So Jimmy, you bet Wilfred bony would have done alright.

For a moment compare the set up at Swansea and the service Bony received and then compare that to the service any of our forwards received at any time this season and tell me if you think you would be making a fair comparison between Bony and any of our strikers.

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Johnson has been a premiership regular for three seasons. That is a huge achievement. I have never pretended he''s better than he is, but these constant claims he is not a PL player are firstly just to actually incorrect until the official end of the season/start of next when we are actually in the Championship. And secondly he has actually been a very useful player. A big part of that down to other CMs poor form/injuries or managers just not playing them (looking at you Fox).

Don''t know why so many people are so quick to put him down when all he''s ever done is give his all. His shortcomings aren''t his fault, if his ''ambitious'' passing over the top etc is his choice then the manager should be telling him to stop ad dropping him if he doesn''t. That''s a big part of his poor pass success ratio, he does mess up too many simple ones too mind. But overall, three seasons in the PL he hasn''t made all that many vital mistakes, he''s scored a few goals, won us points and given 100% whatever is happening and that can''t be said for everyone we''ve seen here in that time.

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I struggle with Smith sometimes, comes up with some really strange statements.

It shouldn''t matter where we sign a player from, only that they are good enough to play for us. It is that simple.

We have had several decent players from abroad over the years.

As for Holland - Bony was signed by Swansea from Vitesse. So clearly the Dutch leagues are shocking. Not to mention although he is Dutch RVW wasn''t signed from a team in Holland.

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[quote user="Jimmy Smith"]You''re not wrong, have we ever signed a decent player from a team abroad?[/quote]

[quote user="Jimmy Smith"]Olsson has been dynamic and class at both ends. [/quote]

Perhaps we just need another club to give them a test drive?

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[quote user="Yellow Wall"]So Jimmy, you bet Wilfred bony would have done alright.

For a moment compare the set up at Swansea and the service Bony received and then compare that to the service any of our forwards received at any time this season and tell me if you think you would be making a fair comparison between Bony and any of our strikers.[/quote]But Bony is part of the Swansea set-up, he holds the ball up and allows team mates to get forward as well as being able to hit the back of the net. Having someone like him in our side would have allowed our midfield to be more dynamic and instilled confidence in the side that if we went 1-0 down we had the firepower to get back into the game.To keep whittering on about "service" and treating a team''s forward players as an entirely separate entity to the "team" just makes you seem foolish. If you''d watched Holt when he was here he not only got in the box and made himself available for this mythical "service" but would often make telling runs and crosses himself creating chances for others.Having watched both Bony and RVW a dozen or more times this season I personally think Wilfried is undoubtedly the more talented player.I assume you would hesitate to say that Lionel Messi is a better second striker than Wes Hoolahan as they play for different teams as well?

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It was a thread meant a bit in jest to be honest, but it does have an element of truth, we really struggle recruiting players from abroad. The comment about a ''test drive'' for Olsson proves useful too. We''ve had some good foreigners play for us but it''s after they have had exposure to UK football. I just wonder if there is something at our club that means the foreign lads find it hard to adapt? Our playing style? Our facilities? Perhaps we just haven''t scouted too well abroad? Is it really a complete coincidence that nearly 100% of our signings from abroad have been utter flops?

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Fer has been decent this season but it looks to me like he lost heart towards the end, when we really needed commitment, which is a different problem.

 

In a team doing reasonably well I think he would have shone.

 

But as a general point I think one of the books on football stats argues that players from Brazil and Holland tend to get over-valued in the transfer market.  I guess both countries have good football "brands" associated with their players which mean that, other things being equal, scouts are more likely to be impressed by a player from Holland than someone equal in all respects who happens to come from, say, Austria etc.  And you wonder if that was partly the blame for buying RVW ?  I think the bigger problem though was playing him in a way that he is completely unsuited for and not playing the ball in the way he needs, i.e. early balls into the channels to run onto and early balls into the box.

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[quote user="Jimmy Smith"]You''re not wrong, have we ever signed a decent player from a team abroad?[/quote]

 

Steen Nedegaard and Denijs Van Wyk.. who if memory serves me correctly was Dutch...

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I thought about Van Wijk when I posted this. Before my time really. Amazing you have to go back 30 years to find a success though I suppose Needergaard was decent.

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Holtcantshoot wrote the following post at 12/05/2014 11:05 AM:

Yellow Wall wrote:

So Jimmy, you bet Wilfred bony would have done alright. For a moment compare the set up at Swansea and the service Bony received and then compare that to the service any of our forwards received at any time this season and tell me if you think you would be making a fair comparison between Bony and any of our strikers.

But Bony is part of the Swansea set-up, he holds the ball up and allows team mates to get forward as well as being able to hit the back of the net. Having someone like him in our side would have allowed our midfield to be more dynamic and instilled confidence in the side that if we went 1-0 down we had the firepower to get back into the game.

To keep whittering on about "service" and treating a team''s forward players as an entirely separate entity to the "team" just makes you seem foolish. If you''d watched Holt when he was here he not only got in the box and made himself available for this mythical "service" but would often make telling runs and crosses himself creating chances for others.

Having watched both Bony and RVW a dozen or more times this season I personally think Wilfried is undoubtedly the more talented player.

I assume you would hesitate to say that Lionel Messi is a better second striker than Wes Hoolahan as they play for different teams as well?

Firstly I would state that I, like most others, would consider Bony a better player than RvW. This was also reflected by their transfer fee.

I do not think he would have helped our midfield be more dynamic, however, as I believe their set up did not help that happen. Bony has benefited greatly by being part of fast incisive attacking play not laboured uninspiring and unimaginative attacks.

I agree what you have said about Holt. Could it be that when Grant Holt realised what was to be expected of him at the club, and the attacking set up that he was to be part of, that he wanted out?

After all under Hughton he saw his goal tally halved, and that was after a year''s experience of the Premiership.

The point I am making is that any forward would have found life difficult with the staid tactics employed by us this season.

To make comparisons between Messi and Hoolahan is foolish, isn''t it?

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It makes you wonder how RVW would have faired this season had he joined Swansea. If we had had Robin Van Persie he would have struggled to score goals. Goals tend to require creativity which is something that was very lacking.

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