Adams. YES or NO?

[littleyellowbirdie 2,543]

[quote user="JonnyH"][quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"][quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"]

For me, no.

 

While he has been reasonable tactically, Fulham - not great, Liverpool - good, Man U - bad, Chelsea - good, that isn''t my main concern. This summer will see some fairly frantic transfer activity, and Adams has never had to deal with that side of things before. There is a high chance Ewan Chester will do one again this summer (he basically said he only came to Norwich because of Hughton), so a manager who brings with him an established scouting network is vital - otherwise Norwich could get left behind in the market.

 

Also, Adams has done well in games Norwich were expected to lose, it is a different thing entirely to being the the manager of a team expected to win. I''d rather Norwich didn''t take a gamble with Adams and give him the summer to prepare, only to find out he isn''t good enough come December and a crucial transfer window is lost.

 

Adams back to the under 18s (where Norwich will need him as there will job cuts to the coaching staff) and get someone in who at least has experience in a transfer window.

[/quote]Agree with this post, and especially the point about transfer activity. Mackay (my choice) would presumably bring with him his usual two coaches. They are experienced and know the lower leagues, so would be able to help with advice on players. In terms of a replacement for Chester, if he goes, then Iain Moody, the man Mackay had at Cardiff woud not be available. But he may have someone else in mind.The point about transfer dealings would become even more relevant if McNally were to leave (possibly for another job but not with another club rather than falling on his sword Roman-style) and we also had to find a new chief executive.[/quote]

 

If Norwich were to lose manager, head scout (or Director of Football Recruitment, his offical job title) and CEO all within a few months then the club is in massive trouble. Especially if inexperienced staff are brought in as replacements in each of these roles.

 

As damaging as losing SAF was to Man U, losing an experienced exec like David Gill was almost as bad, especially as he was replaced by a non-footballing man in Woodward.

[/quote]Similar to my previous point about producing our own coaches, we shouldn''t be relying on a manager to bring his own head scout in. Every time a manager leaves we''ll lose too many key staff and wreck any kind of continuity that we could be achieving. This is especially damaging when we''ve just been relegated.[/quote]I agree with that point. I also think there''s a lot to be said for the Director of Football approach for the same reasons. Whoever the board does decide on in the end, I hope any skeptics can bring themselves to stay open minded and not search for every fault from day one, because whoever it is you can guarantee they won''t be perfect and they won''t get everything right.

[Katie Borkins 1]

Not trying to "ruin" the thread, old son. Just adding a little context.

[Mellow Yellow 18]

YES. I am impressed by the passion shown by him and his team and he did a great job with the youth team.

[FCC 76]

How good was he with the Youth team? He had a good cup run, which included beating Forest on penalties.

Luton had a good cup run but we didn''t suggest appointing their manager.

Adams is a good option to have, but although performances have been better, results have not been great.

[Ray 111]

FFC,

OK, But Luton did not go on to beat a Chelsea team in the final. A two legged final at that, a team that include some highly paid and regarded youngsters who had made first team appearances!

[nutty nigel 7,528]

Love the way people try to devalue our club''s achievements. We beat Chelsea in the final. They had a player on their bench who cost more than our record first team signing at the time. Chelsea just won this years competition and the last 8 youth cup winners have been : -

Liverpool

Man City

Arsenal

Chelsea

Man Utd

Chelsea

Norwich

Chelsea

[Ray 111]

Good point well made Nutty

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 1,557]

"Similar to my previous point about producing our own coaches, we shouldn''t be relying on a manager to bring his own head scout in. Every time a manager leaves we''ll lose too many key staff and wreck any kind of continuity that we could be achieving. This is especially damaging when we''ve just been relegated."

I agree with that point. I also think there''s a lot to be said for the Director of Football approach for the same reasons. Whoever the board does decide on in the end, I hope any skeptics can bring themselves to stay open minded and not search for every fault from day one, because whoever it is you can guarantee they won''t be perfect and they won''t get everything right.
I''m a big fan of the Director of Football approach, but unfortunately the club is help at the will of the managers. In Britain there just isn''t that culture and managers want to work with staff they know and trust. Managers will pass on jobs when told they can''t choose their own staff and if a club wants a particular manager they will bend to their requests.

 

Norwich really built themselves around Hughton at the senior level, more so than many clubs do with their managers (the same happened with Lambert). But it is very hard for managers to build up trust with a Director of Football that the board have appointed to critique them.

 

On the continent it is so ingrained into clubs that it is just accepted, as is the manager not having much of a say over transfers - whenever this has been tried in England the managers quickly run to the press to blame all the clubs problems on the ''man upstairs''. A large factor in England is also the lack of experienced men who want to be DoFs - many are just managers in waiting, who have been know to tell their boards how useless the current manager is and how they would be doing so much better. It does appear that Chester is currently doing the DoF role (although as he was close to Hughton he probably wouldn''t be to harsh on him) if Norwich can keep him in place then they might be able to build some consistency.

 

What Norwich do need to think about though is looking at Southampton and Swansea and how they have ''ideologies'' around certain styles of football. Norwich jumped from Lambert''s attacking style based on overlooked British players to Hughton''s defensive style based on players moving down from larger clubs. Swansea have managed to overcome managerial (and backroom) overhauls with ease as the new men at least had the same ideas as the previous guys.

[nutty nigel 7,528]

Great post from Beth.

 

Despite the poor season the first team have had the rest of the football department have been pulling up trees. We won the Youth Cup last season. The teams I listed on the previous post show what an achievement that was. We''ve invested heavily in our category one academy. We''ve recruited top coaches to be part of the team and the icing on the cake was the U21s finishing in the top half of their league meaning they will play in the top division next year. They have achieved something that many top clubs including Arsenal and Tottenham have failed to do.

 

For these last five first team matches we have taken the coaches from the U21 and U18 teams to run the first team. I would think this was because the first team coaches had lost the fans as much as the manager had. But without it being said I would think these appointments were short term. Adams, Robson and Nevin have very important jobs with the football club where they are achieving great things. I honestly believe they will go back to these roles next season.

 

Probably the biggest failure of the last season has been recruitment or the ability to use the recruits. It''s difficult to say which. Take RVW. Opinion seems to be split between him being totally unsuitable for the PL and our 1st team management being totally unsuitable for him. Whichever the case is there has to be questions asked about Ewan Chester.

 

It seems up until the WBA game McNally believed Hughton was the best option to see out the season. But that doesn''t mean he believed he was the best option for next season. I''m guessing the decision to make changes in the summer was taken long before that WBA game and I doubt any plan involved promoting coaches who were work in progress and doing a fantastic job elsewhere at the club. Of course it''s possible that the board will have seen something in the last few matches to change their minds but I''m guessing that they were a late change to plan A and plan B had already been decided. But we shall see and it''s interesting times.

 

 

[simmo_2 6]

Not in a million years, its been a complete joke since he took over from Hughton. The defence he picked against Fulham was so so wrong and then keep picking it for the next 2 games, unbelievable. Dropping Tettey what was that all about. Adams has also more or less kept the same tactics as Hughton, I was in Gran Canaria watching match Sunday and fans of other clubs were taking the p@@@ because we never went to win match in last 15 mins, It was just embarrassing.

[4th floor 4]

[quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"]

"Similar to my previous point about producing our own coaches, we shouldn''t be relying on a manager to bring his own head scout in. Every time a manager leaves we''ll lose too many key staff and wreck any kind of continuity that we could be achieving. This is especially damaging when we''ve just been relegated."I agree with that point. I also think there''s a lot to be said for the Director of Football approach for the same reasons. Whoever the board does decide on in the end, I hope any skeptics can bring themselves to stay open minded and not search for every fault from day one, because whoever it is you can guarantee they won''t be perfect and they won''t get everything right.I''m a big fan of the Director of Football approach, but unfortunately the club is help at the will of the managers. In Britain there just isn''t that culture and managers want to work with staff they know and trust. Managers will pass on jobs when told they can''t choose their own staff and if a club wants a particular manager they will bend to their requests.

 

Norwich really built themselves around Hughton at the senior level, more so than many clubs do with their managers (the same happened with Lambert). But it is very hard for managers to build up trust with a Director of Football that the board have appointed to critique them.

 

On the continent it is so ingrained into clubs that it is just accepted, as is the manager not having much of a say over transfers - whenever this has been tried in England the managers quickly run to the press to blame all the clubs problems on the ''man upstairs''. A large factor in England is also the lack of experienced men who want to be DoFs - many are just managers in waiting, who have been know to tell their boards how useless the current manager is and how they would be doing so much better. It does appear that Chester is currently doing the DoF role (although as he was close to Hughton he probably wouldn''t be to harsh on him) if Norwich can keep him in place then they might be able to build some consistency.

 

What Norwich do need to think about though is looking at Southampton and Swansea and how they have ''ideologies'' around certain styles of football. Norwich jumped from Lambert''s attacking style based on overlooked British players to Hughton''s defensive style based on players moving down from larger clubs. Swansea have managed to overcome managerial (and backroom) overhauls with ease as the new men at least had the same ideas as the previous guys.[/quote]

I''d agree with most of that. I think it would require some bravery to stick to our guns when telling potential managers that they''d need to work with the club''s own coaches as with West Brom whom were initially rejected by Pepe Mel because he wanted to bring his own people with him. I''ve thought before that perhaps as an interim step we could limit a new appointment to bringing just one person with them until we build things up.

However, I think we''d find it easier compared to other clubs if we went down the DoF road due to our existing positives such as training facilities, our reputation as a well-run club etc. If we stuck with this kind of setup then we''d have to hope that we''d nurture coaches and a generally successful setup such that managers would see that it works and hence want to come here.

I think it would be a mistake to completely control transfers to the extent that a manager had no or little control over which players were bought. And getting the right person in as DoF would be a challenge in itself for the reasons you mentioned.

I think overall the advantages would outweigh the disadvantages over the longer term, and help us step up a level.

[Highland Canary 76]

Let''s hope we have the announcement of an experienced Championship manager in the next week - some of our competitors have already started to announce player releases. Our best chance is next season. That should be the only focus.

[Since 1980 27]

''It seems up until the WBA game McNally believed Hughton was the best

option to see out the season.''No proof that is the case. Seems he wanted Hughton gone long before but didn''t have the backing of enough of the board.

[A Gay Schoolboy 0]

For everyone saying that we''re the only club that would do such a thing as appoint Adams permanently: Swansea have just given Garry Monk a 3 year contract.

[Redders Right Foot 22]

Swansea can afford a test season of mediocrity without too much to worry about. without the Europa league the odds of them being relegated with Monk in charge is relatively slim. they averaged 1.28 points a game since he was put in charge, along with a draw against Napoli. over a 38 game season at 1.28 points per game, the trend ends up with 46 points, enough to stay up around mid-table. Of course one seasons trends mean absolutely nothing on the next seasons, but basically 1.3 points per game is enough to help a manager of a mid-lower table team keep his job.I would like Adams to stay on as an assistant coach, if able, because I think he is a talent and with more experience could become a good manager. However if we are to keep our desirable players over the long term, we need to be promoted by the end of next season, and a experienced manager gives us the best shot at that.saying that, though, the players do respect him, and if he is given the job full time, we could be likely to keep much of our team.

[Highland Canary 76]

Re Swansea - arguably an easier task in a period of stability rather than change. We will likely see more than half the first team leave in the next weeks - getting those strong Championship level players in to replace them requires both experience and a full book of contacts.

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 1,557]

[quote user="Highland Canary"]Let''s hope we have the announcement of an experienced Championship manager in the next week - some of our competitors have already started to announce player releases. Our best chance is next season. That should be the only focus.[/quote]

 

I don''t agree with that. Just focusing on the short term, even if promotion is achieved, will lead Norwich to back where they are now in the medium term. The club was built around the manager''s personality, so as soon as we lost the manager things started to fall apart.

 

Southampton and Swansea, who have both made the step-up with great success have both had three different managers in the last 3/4 seasons - however by building a strong club ethos they have suffered no ill affect (in fact Southampton have become stronger each time by bringing in the type of manager needed for the moment). People will say they have been lucky and made clever appointments, which is true, but it has been fairly easy for these managers to carry on the work done by the previous guy, even though coaches etc have changed, the same mentality has been kept. This is undoubtably a great benefit to the players who haven''t had to completely change their attitudes. Look at the fall out from the change from Lambert to Hughton - players had to change their style drastically.

[Highland Canary 76]

Seems such a long while ago now. An interesting thread in parts.

[Highland Canary 76]

Seems such a long while ago now. An interesting thread in parts.

[morty 0]

Only if you are trying to make a petty "I told you so" kinda point I guess.

[morty 0]

Though, in reading the thread back, I talked some amazing sense.Almost prophetic at times.[:)]

[lake district canary 4,531]

[quote user="morty"]Though, in reading the thread back, I talked some amazing sense.Almost prophetic at times.[:)][/quote]

Did you read anyone else''s posts?   [:^)]

[morty 0]

[quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="morty"]Though, in reading the thread back, I talked some amazing sense.Almost prophetic at times.[:)][/quote]

Did you read anyone else''s posts?   [:^)]

[/quote]You talked a load of shart, as per.

[havemyhowsonit 0]

[quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="morty"]Though, in reading the thread back, I talked some amazing sense.Almost prophetic at times.[:)][/quote]

Did you read anyone else''s posts?   [:^)]

[/quote]

Classic lol!

Is there actually anyone who wants adams still in the job?

If there is then seriously why? Must love the pain of watching this tripe every week

[lake district canary 4,531]

[quote user="alartz"][quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="morty"]Though, in reading the thread back, I talked some amazing sense.Almost prophetic at times.[:)][/quote]Did you read anyone else''s posts?   [:^)][/quote]

Classic lol!

[/quote]

Poor Morty, he thinks he''s so cool...