Ray 111 Posted May 5, 2014 Morty, Your point re: "But in making the appointment you mitigate the risks, based on a previous track record." is valid imo, however as I said CH had previous track record?I still would like to see next weeks performance before waving the Adams flag too strenuously, or any other flag for that matter, which is why I am saying, atm a ''guarded Yes''. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lake district canary 4,531 Posted May 5, 2014 [quote user="mrs miggins"]Morty''s not saying that it can''t possibly work, he''s saying that it''s a big risk. One that we don''t necessarily need to take[/quote]Whoever we get is a big risk............its a risk business and nothing is guaranteed. Eyebrows were raised when Stringer took over.......... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
morty 0 Posted May 5, 2014 [quote user="Ray"]Morty, Your point re: "But in making the appointment you mitigate the risks, based on a previous track record." is valid imo, however as I said CH had previous track record?I still would like to see next weeks performance before waving the Adams flag too strenuously, or any other flag for that matter, which is why I am saying, atm a ''guarded Yes''.[/quote]The irony is that CH could probably serve us well in the Championship lol.But I really don''t think you could base Adams suitability based on next weeks game. Season over, already relegated, our better players with one eye on the exit door, Adams under no pressure whatsoever. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
morty 0 Posted May 5, 2014 [quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="mrs miggins"]Morty''s not saying that it can''t possibly work, he''s saying that it''s a big risk. One that we don''t necessarily need to take[/quote]Whoever we get is a big risk............its a risk business and nothing is guaranteed. Eyebrows were raised when Stringer took over..........[/quote]The game has changed just a little since Stringer took over...And as I have previously said, you mitigate those risks, by making sound judgements based on either previous track record, or massive potential shown at a similar, or slightly lower level.If Neil Adams doesn''t get the job, do you think another Championship club will offer him a job? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Monty13 2,229 Posted May 5, 2014 I honestly don''t see it likely we will get promoted next year, whoever the manager, I know that comes across as a little defeatist when we haven''t been relegated yet, but I worry about another expectation overload from supporters.The 1in4 thread makes a good point, odds are you''re not coming back up first time of asking. There has been a lot of unrest at our club, lots of division among supporters, seemingly a lot of unhappy, for various reasons, players.Expecting the mood to shift overnight with a new manager and some new players seems a tad unrealistic to me. I''d love us to be pushing for the title next season, I hope we do, but I wouldn''t be surprised if we fail to even make the play-offs, it''s a very tough league. But it''s the nature of the season that I want to see positives from, if we are playing good football, if a good atmospheres back, if players are digging out till the final whistle, whether we get promoted or not it will be something to build on. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Year of the tiger 54 Posted May 5, 2014 Yes the game has changed, but I heard the same arguments back the when first Stringer was appointed & then followed by Mike Walker. There was not message boards then but the talk in the pubs & papers was totally against, comments like who is going to want to stay or sign for us with a nobody in charge. Just to think we could have had England international Phil Neal instead of Walker & most fans at the time wanted that! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lake district canary 4,531 Posted May 5, 2014 [quote user="morty"][quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="mrs miggins"]Morty''s not saying that it can''t possibly work, he''s saying that it''s a big risk. One that we don''t necessarily need to take[/quote]Whoever we get is a big risk............its a risk business and nothing is guaranteed. Eyebrows were raised when Stringer took over..........[/quote]The game has changed just a little since Stringer took over...And as I have previously said, you mitigate those risks, by making sound judgements based on either previous track record, or massive potential shown at a similar, or slightly lower level.If Neil Adams doesn''t get the job, do you think another Championship club will offer him a job?[/quote]Well he is a Norwich man and I expect he would stay here in some capacity. But if he is ambitious to the extent of wanting the job on a permanent basis, that would be good enough for me. Once he is a permanent manager, he has everything to lose - as Gunn found - and it could cost him his place within the club - so it will be a brave decision for him to make - and he is not without ability, even if he is unproven as a manager. We''ll see, but intent and ambition are worthy traits to have in a manager - so if he has that within him, it counts for a lot. Also, you only get experience by someone giving you the chance. This could be his chance. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Canary On The Wire 0 Posted May 5, 2014 Adams massive potential to me is characterized by his ability to spot and amend problems, such as the switch to 4-2-3-1 from the diamond v Liverpool to counteract their midfield dominance. That''s something even good coaches like Hughton don''t have in their locker Of course we''ve only seen it in fits and starts so yes, it''s a bold claim-but from these matches you have to react and adapt to the opposition, and that inspired switch v Liverpool would have been heralded as one of the managerial decisions of the season had we got the point we probably deserved. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
morty 0 Posted May 5, 2014 [quote user="Canary On The Wire"]Adams massive potential to me is characterized by his ability to spot and amend problems, such as the switch to 4-2-3-1 from the diamond v Liverpool to counteract their midfield dominance. That''s something even good coaches like Hughton don''t have in their locker Of course we''ve only seen it in fits and starts so yes, it''s a bold claim-but from these matches you have to react and adapt to the opposition, and that inspired switch v Liverpool would have been heralded as one of the managerial decisions of the season had we got the point we probably deserved.[/quote]Should he have even started with the diamond though, is a question that begs asking.Man Utd away? They were there for the taking. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
morty 0 Posted May 5, 2014 [quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="morty"][quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="mrs miggins"]Morty''s not saying that it can''t possibly work, he''s saying that it''s a big risk. One that we don''t necessarily need to take[/quote]Whoever we get is a big risk............its a risk business and nothing is guaranteed. Eyebrows were raised when Stringer took over..........[/quote]The game has changed just a little since Stringer took over...And as I have previously said, you mitigate those risks, by making sound judgements based on either previous track record, or massive potential shown at a similar, or slightly lower level.If Neil Adams doesn''t get the job, do you think another Championship club will offer him a job?[/quote]Well he is a Norwich man and I expect he would stay here in some capacity. But if he is ambitious to the extent of wanting the job on a permanent basis, that would be good enough for me. Once he is a permanent manager, he has everything to lose - as Gunn found - and it could cost him his place within the club - so it will be a brave decision for him to make - and he is not without ability, even if he is unproven as a manager. We''ll see, but intent and ambition are worthy traits to have in a manager - so if he has that within him, it counts for a lot. Also, you only get experience by someone giving you the chance. This could be his chance. [/quote]Of course he wants the job, just because he does shouldn''t be a basis for giving it to him, I would like to hope thats there are lots of managers, infinitely more qualified than Neil Adams, that want the job.The board needs to be extremely objective here, and I hope they are already sifting through CV''s. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ray 111 Posted May 5, 2014 Morty,Blimey, given up already, could still be in with a chance, a slim one I admit.Whether we are down or not, I would still be interested to see how he plays it, will he give some of the youngsters a go if we are down, etc.So, sticking with my guarded YES for now, it would be interesting to establish the thoughts of one or two of our senior players who are likely to be here next year, not that they should make the appointment of course but if I was CEO I would want to talk to them first!?! Although if I was CEO I would have had my finger on this particular pulse throughout the season!!Here''s hoping for the right result Wednesday. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Parma Ham's gone mouldy 2,219 Posted May 5, 2014 Let us factor in what we do know and weigh it against the probabilities of what we don''t know.The Board showed evangelical belief in Hughton and wanted him to succeed. They gave him every opportunity to achieve and he repaid the faith with repeated backs-to-the-wall results as repeated weaknesses threatened his position. Negativity and fear had permeated stands, team and tactics as a defender reverted further to defensiveness and found danger around every tactical corner. Adams was a last-minute popular plaster for 26,000 sold-out seats. Euphoria at who he wasn''t and a one-of-us frenzy could have made a difference. It was late, the players mental conditioning was heavily set and change was not change enough. The goodwill towards Adams was tempered by the distant doubt in the minds of even Hughton''s harshest critic, that perhaps the players that we had invested so much hope in had actually never been good enough. That Hughton''s tactics were the product of a calculation of the abilities of the resources at his disposal.Ray and Morty both make valid points from contrasting directions. The external appearance of an Adams appointment looks parochial, yet Adams is more than this. Those who know him know a steely character with an edge. To portray him as the easy, cheap option is factually true, though ironically he is perhaps the exception. He is ambitious, cares deeply about Norwich, though retains a northern directness and no lack of self-confidence. We are not - now - going go attract a rather attractive Dutch option, something both catchment area, value-for-money, style of play and existing squad had looked a good, progressive option.We are also not going to attract a high class name, big money option. We are not that kind of draw in the championship, if indeed anybody is. We are going to lose better players, not attract them. We will have a greater need to give youth a chance. Our income is going to reduce dramatically. Our best option is to work to retain better-than-championship (but suitable for it) performers such as Howson, Johnson, Olsson, Snodgrass, hooper, turner, Redmond, Martin and add some more youthful pace and fearlessness.Available and/or theoretical options look thin and imperfect. The most mentioned of Mackay and Lennon carry baggage of their own and a period of disunity needs to be healed. 26,000 will inevitably turn up in div 3, which is fabulous, though when all the tickets are sold there is an inevitable tendency to "give em what they like to eat" and those who win twitter votes or get the most vehement support on canary call do not necessarily a great manager make.The irony here is that - on paper - the appointment of Adams looks like little old Norwich. On grass - in the circumstances - Neil could be a good and brave gamble. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
morty 0 Posted May 5, 2014 [quote user="Ray"]Morty,Blimey, given up already, could still be in with a chance, a slim one I admit.Whether we are down or not, I would still be interested to see how he plays it, will he give some of the youngsters a go if we are down, etc.So, sticking with my guarded YES for now, it would be interesting to establish the thoughts of one or two of our senior players who are likely to be here next year, not that they should make the appointment of course but if I was CEO I would want to talk to them first!?! Although if I was CEO I would have had my finger on this particular pulse throughout the season!!Here''s hoping for the right result Wednesday.[/quote]We''re down Ray, we all know it lol.Yes, the players seem to be sitting on the fence in offering any opinion, which says to me they don''t expect Adams to get the job. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Monty13 2,229 Posted May 5, 2014 Brilliant post Parma, agree in entirety! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ray 111 Posted May 5, 2014 Hi Morty,There''s a difference between what they expect and what they would prefer?I''m staying out of the ''we are down'' club'' at the moment, although fully accepting it is out of our hands and I certainly wouldn''t risk any money just yet, even though you can get 250/1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hogesar 9,615 Posted May 5, 2014 I''m all for getting in an experienced Manager who gives us a good chance of going back up at first time of asking.The question is if we can get that manager - if they''re available and if not if we can persuade them to come to us and how much we''ll have to pay in order to do it.What I''m saying is - if the board can''t identify that target then I''d rather stick with Adams than go for someone like - for example (and yes people have suggested him) Ian Holloway. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
morty 0 Posted May 5, 2014 [quote user="hogesar"]I''m all for getting in an experienced Manager who gives us a good chance of going back up at first time of asking.The question is if we can get that manager - if they''re available and if not if we can persuade them to come to us and how much we''ll have to pay in order to do it.What I''m saying is - if the board can''t identify that target then I''d rather stick with Adams than go for someone like - for example (and yes people have suggested him) Ian Holloway.[/quote]I don''t disagree with that.But I do want them to go through the process of looking at CV''s etc, and not just take the easier option. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Canary Willo 0 Posted May 5, 2014 I cant believe the board will just take the easy option, they know there is too much riding on this. I don''t believe Adams is the right man for the job Morty, I agree, although history does suggest when we have done this before it has great success; Brown, Stringer, Walker and Worthy. If you go down the tried and trusted Champ Manager, surely Malky ticks all boxes, I do recall his Watford style playing very open, expansive football the season we came up and run us ragged on the first game. Also Cardiff blew away the Championship last season. True, if we were to go back up, would he be able to shift his style? Any proven Champ Manager would hold the same question. For me, Malky fits the bill, based on where we are now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanaryOne 0 Posted May 5, 2014 No thanks and that goes for Malky too . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
morty 0 Posted May 5, 2014 [quote user="Canary Willo"]I cant believe the board will just take the easy option, they know there is too much riding on this. I don''t believe Adams is the right man for the job Morty, I agree, although history does suggest when we have done this before it has great success; Brown, Stringer, Walker and Worthy. If you go down the tried and trusted Champ Manager, surely Malky ticks all boxes, I do recall his Watford style playing very open, expansive football the season we came up and run us ragged on the first game. Also Cardiff blew away the Championship last season. True, if we were to go back up, would he be able to shift his style? Any proven Champ Manager would hold the same question. For me, Malky fits the bill, based on where we are now.[/quote]For me though I wonder if we can''t, perhaps, do a bit better than Malky though. I think a few people let the ex player thing cloud their judgement a little bit. If it was a straight choice between Malky and Adams, I would probably actually choose Adams. I don''t think Malky will win us the Championship, but at least with Adams its an unknown, that might just pay off. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr Jenkins 0 Posted May 5, 2014 Parma is right, it certainly would not be tinpot to appoint Adams, it would be a huge feather in the cap of the club.As Parma says, anyone that knows Adams will know what a strong character he is, and also he is a very nice guy, for those that found that such a powerfull attribute of our previous man.Managing a youth side isn''t the same as a PL side but tactical understand and and the ability to read a game are skills that if possessed apply at all levels of the game! and Adams has these.Definately the man. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr Brownstone 0 Posted May 5, 2014 Adams has done a decent job (Old Trafford aside) in very tough circumstances. Tactically he''s got some things wrong (to be expected), but he''s got some things very right too and doesn''t seem to be afraid of changing things if they''re not working. If we were preparing for a 4th or 5th consecutive season in the Championship and had a settled squad then I''d probably be in the "give him a go" camp, but coming down from the Prem means we are going to potentially have a large turnover of players in the summer, for me we need a more experienced name to come in and deal with that situation, someone who can perhaps convince some of those players we fear losing to hang around for a year and try and right their wrongs from this season, and if they''re not able to do that someone who has the contacts and experience to rebuild the squad with the quality we''ll need to have a shot at getting out again at the first attempt. As much as I''d like to see Neil succeed (it''s the romantic option rather than the cheap one), I don''t think he''s the right man for the situation we''ll be in. Would love to see him involved as part of the first team coaching staff though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dubai Mark 0 Posted May 5, 2014 NO As for Neil Adams.......Tinpot? - YESCheap option? - YESDoes he have enough experience? - NOIs there better? - YESWould it smack of "little old Norwich" - YESWould his leadership put any fear in the opposition? - NOIs he a good guy? - YESIs he a nice man? - YESIs he "Mr Norwich City"? - YESWas it a poison challice? - YES Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Norwich or die tryin! 0 Posted May 5, 2014 NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Canary Willo 0 Posted May 5, 2014 I can see your point Morty, but proven Championship Managers are people like Warnock, god forbid. Could go the other route and look at Ferguson at Peterborough, Robinson and MK, or, as I have said here before, Paul Clement, who has made it clear in a few press releases he is ready to step out of the shadows of his illustrious managers, a la Rodgers... Many people saying no to Adams and/or Malky without any credible reasons and alternative options.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
morty 0 Posted May 5, 2014 [quote user="Canary Willo"]I can see your point Morty, but proven Championship Managers are people like Warnock, god forbid. Could go the other route and look at Ferguson at Peterborough, Robinson and MK, or, as I have said here before, Paul Clement, who has made it clear in a few press releases he is ready to step out of the shadows of his illustrious managers, a la Rodgers... Many people saying no to Adams and/or Malky without any credible reasons and alternative options....[/quote]Most peoples reasons are Adams - very, very little actual league experience, Malky - not really that different to Hughton.If there was a totally obvious option then the boards job would be pretty easy, wouldn''t it? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
# 0 Posted May 5, 2014 If they did appoint Adams full time I wouldn''t feel too bad about it, but it would depend on who else was available, Sherwood would be my preference. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sgncfc 1,221 Posted May 5, 2014 Adams - definite NOSherwood - Why? Definite NOMalky - possible YESLennon - Possible YESColin - possible YESHoddle - Definite YESBut we all know they''ll go for Adams so it''s all a bit of a waste of time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites