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Waveney Canary

I no longer care if we get relegated

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I just want to get hapless out of our club and start again.

He is a disrespectful loser who due to his ability to manage the media and our less than objective board has survived this wrong.

Let''s get someone in who plays the style of football we want as well as a figure who can lead the club on and off the pitch.

If the price of this is relegation I for one would pay it.

If by a miracle we do survive and he stays I think the club would implode and do serious long term damage

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[quote user="Waveney Canary"]I just want to get hapless out of our club and start again.

He is a disrespectful loser who due to his ability to manage the media and our less than objective board has survived this wrong.

Let''s get someone in who plays the style of football we want as well as a figure who can lead the club on and off the pitch.

If the price of this is relegation I for one would pay it.

If by a miracle we do survive and he stays I think the club would implode and do serious long term damage[/quote]

I agree with you on all fronts apart from not caring if we are relegated.

Thats just blasphemy

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Whilst I am not keen on some of the wording I am in full agreement with the sentiment.

I got over the concept of relegation some weeks ago, just want this season over.

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[quote user="Waveney Canary"]I just want to get hapless out of our club and start again.

He is a disrespectful loser who due to his ability to manage the media and our less than objective board has survived this wrong.

Let''s get someone in who plays the style of football we want as well as a figure who can lead the club on and off the pitch.

If the price of this is relegation I for one would pay it.

If by a miracle we do survive and he stays I think the club would implode and do serious long term damage[/quote]

And there we have it. The voice of reason.   Would take relegation.    Some fan.

If by some strength of mind we do stay up the majority will be relieved and celebrate it as an achievement, given our run in over the next few games.  The inquests over the manager can wait till the end of the season.   If he then stays - things will have to improve quite dramatically and quickly.  If he goes, then yes, a different start and a clean sheet.   But lets wait till the end of the season eh?   Still got five games to go - and some of us would like to think we still have a chance.

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[quote user="lharman7"]

If by a miracle we do survive and he stays I think the club would implode and do serious long term damage[/quote]Once the crowd turn, no manager can survive. That happened for the first time yesterday and was very reminiscent of the "Worthy/Burnley" match.I have felt all along that he would see the season out because he kept winning the must win games. It couldn''t go on forever because nothing ever does. Even the Fulham bogey will end one day if enough time passes.Up or down I think there will be a new manager at the helm in August. Hopefully still in the Prem but it''s looking more and more likely to be in the Chumps.

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What are you on about? Relegation. Although you had a poor result yesterday you''re still in with a sniff of the play-offs.

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ricardo wrote the following post at 06/04/2014 1:33 PM:

lharman7 wrote:

If by a miracle we do survive and he stays I think the club would implode and do serious long term damage

Once the crowd turn, no manager can survive. That happened for the first time yesterday and was very reminiscent of the "Worthy/Burnley" match.

I have felt all along that he would see the season out because he kept winning the must win games. It couldn''t go on forever because nothing ever does. Even the Fulham bogey will end one day if enough time passes.

Up or down I think there will be a new manager at the helm in August. Hopefully still in the Prem but it''s looking more and more likely to be in the Chumps.

Ricardo, do you think it was the correct decision to keep Hughton at least up to this point in the season, and if not when do you personally think he should have gone?

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I am coming to share Waveney''s feelings. It looks hopeless now. The players put in effort but to little effect, and tactics and team selection seem chaotic.

I think that at beginning of the season I, and many others, over estimated the quality in the squad. We do not have an outstanding squad. Having said that, they are consistently under-achieving despite all their effort.

We need a new broom for a new start, and relegation could offer it, even it seems a terrible event.

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[quote user="lake district canary"]And there we have it. The voice of reason.   Would take relegation.    Some fan.

[/quote]I''d presume Waveny is just running high on frustration, and unless Waveny wishes to correct me, i''m sure he wouldn''t take relegation with open arms under any circumstance that didn''t contain any greater overall prospective benefit for the club (as far as he saw it). I''d suppose he see''s relegation (as far as it means Hughton is to then be sacked) as a catalyst that will throw us onto a more successful trajectory than the one we''re consigned to under Hughton''s stewardship. Right or wrong is besides the point, it is only speculation that we can choose to deliberate over or not; there is no reason to allow it to devolve into an argument of ad hominems.In truth I''m supposing a lot, but i''m inclined to give inner and outers alike similar benefit of the doubt as far as i regard them as fans of the club, should i consider them misled or not. No more than that respectful precedent is enough to diffuse the partisanship on this forum. If more people were willing to acknowledge that at least, all these petty articles and comments that are tantamount to engaging in childish smear campaigns will be treated as they deserve - with no more than a blind eye, and so much as a click onto its link to acknowledge it with a view.In response to the article i''m not willing to accept relegation under any circumstance i can personally concieve of as such an event''s fiscal detriment to the club is too overwhelming for me to ignore. The club is in desperate need of some impetus however, and i''ve been more or less certain as of around January time that this would require (at the very least) dismissing Hughton. That''s not me making a concession on my standpoint on relegation however, as i''d only be delighted to find out that as of 5 o''clock May 11th Norwich are destined to play at least another season of Premier League football, Hughton''s incumbent on the Norwich payroll or not.

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Whilst I can see where Waveney is coming from, I''m afraid that I for one cannot just accept relegation. If for no other reason that it was so ultimately avoidable. If we were a club who was skint , unable to buy players, afford wages and hopelessly out of our depth, it''d be one thing. But we are none of those things. we are a club with a well-respected board, in good financial health, and a pretty useful squad on paper. Unfortunately we''ve been lumbered with an dull, insipid, Champ quality management team, who are totally out of their depth.The fact that this was ignored and not acted upon reflects very poorly on this club, and I''d say that is what rankles most with a large core of fans. Frankly, we have no business being in the plight we are, so most of us do care about the impending threat of playing Barnsley, Brentford, and maybe even Rotherham come August.

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[quote user="Brienne"]

Ricardo, do you think it was the correct decision to keep Hughton at least up to this point in the season, and if not when do you personally think he should have gone?[/quote]It will only have been the correct decision if we stay up. Impossible to argue differently if we are relegated. I can''t say when I think he should have gone because everything is driven by the results and we don''t know them in advance. One thing is certain, there will be a lot of "I told you so''s" if we go down.As I have stated on other threads, I never call for the managers head (there''s always enough people doing that without my assistance). What will be will be and when a manager loses the confidence of the players or a large enough section of the support his demise is inevitable. The result yesterday and the reaction of the crowd took us over the edge IMO.Would anyone have done better? I don''t know, but I''ve learned not to get too upset about if''s and but''s because you can''t change the past anymore than you can be certain about changing the future. Something you never expected always comes up to smack you on the nose. Hindsight has always been 20/20 vision. As someone once said, "predictions are difficult, especially ones about the future".

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[quote user="ricardo"] Hindsight has always been 20/20 vision. As someone once said, "predictions are difficult, especially ones about the future".[/quote]Aw come on Ricardo. A man of your calibre can do better than hopeless well worn clichés of that sort. I''m afraid that doesn''t wash. If it did, what would be the point in planning anything ? As I have said in another thread there are people at the club who are well remunerated to forsee all eventualities and plan for them.How is it that thousands of ordinary fans have seen the writing on the wall for Hughton, and offered good advice how to deal with it, but the people that matter have not been able to see it ?

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Thanks for the reply. Yes predictions are certainly difficult and your point is well made, but as you say if we do go down the wrong decisions will have been made. I guess thats the hard part to take by the gate paying fans who believe they have seen the weakness in the manager for so long with nothing apparently being done to turn things around.

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[quote user="Reggie Strayshun"][quote user="ricardo"] Hindsight has always been 20/20 vision. As someone once said, "predictions are difficult, especially ones about the future".[/quote]Aw come on Ricardo. A man of your calibre can do better than hopeless well worn clichés of that sort. I''m afraid that doesn''t wash. If it did, what would be the point in planning anything ? As I have said in another thread there are people at the club who are well remunerated to forsee all eventualities and plan for them.How is it that thousands of ordinary fans have seen the writing on the wall for Hughton, and offered good advice how to deal with it, but the people that matter have not been able to see it ?[/quote]Perhaps you should be chief exec then because the present incumbent seems not to have heard your advice.Predictions are only ok if they prove to be correct (you know, a bit like mine in November, about who would be relegated).McNally predicted we would be mid-table at the Fans Forum in October, I heard him say it. As it turns out his prediction looks like being very wrong but for a long time he could claim that if you looked at the table we were never more than one win away from it.As you say, thousands of fans have been calling for his head but quite obviously they remained either in the minority or were not vociferous enough to change anything. I am old enough to recall the cushions on the pitch, the zigger zagger zigger and the Chase out demonstrations. We have seen nothing even approaching that level of action. I think the first real sign of a trigger was yesterday although the bullet seems to be on a long fuse because Chris Hughton is still standing.

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[quote user="Brienne"]Thanks for the reply. Yes predictions are certainly difficult and your point is well made, but as you say if we do go down the wrong decisions will have been made. I guess thats the hard part to take by the gate paying fans who believe they have seen the weakness in the manager for so long with nothing apparently being done to turn things around.[/quote]People live and die by the decisions they make. McNally and Hughton are not exceptions to that rule.

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I kind of understand where you are coming from, but don''t forget relegation could mean 15 years in the wilderness, no guarantees we''ll bounce back anytime soon. Be careful what you wish for!

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[quote user="ricardo"]Perhaps you should be chief exec then because the present incumbent seems not to have heard your advice.

As you say, thousands of fans have been calling for his head but quite obviously they remained either in the minority or were not vociferous enough to change anything. I am old enough to recall the cushions on the pitch, the zigger zagger zigger and the Chase out demonstrations. [/quote]Precisely the point Ricardo. He''s heard our advice alright. And my prediction is that he will do something about it. But will it be too late. We''ll know soon !And, your point about the Chase Out demos is a bit of a red herring, with respect. It is in no way comparable to the current situation, as , like it or not, Mr Chase was the man with his hands ultimately on the purse strings at the time. Not true of Mc N, let alone Hughton .

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[quote user="Brienne"]

Ricardo, do you think it was the correct decision to keep Hughton at least up to this point in the season, and if not when do you personally think he should have gone?[/quote]At the end of last seasonThere was clear player dissatisfaction and I believe the board mistakenly thought that having a disciplaniarian/bully would quell that back biting and ''keep every one in line''.It hasn''t worked and has badly backfiredWhether the board feels that after turfing out lambert they could not be seen to get rid of another manager, I don''t know and doubt that is the case.But the anecdotal evidence is that Hughton is not widely liked outside of the board, and there must be something they know that we don''t as the evidence of the performances, player development and unity would have had him out months ago.All very odd, to be honest.

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A fear of change, after the progress over the last few years its tragic that we have lost our ability to see whats happeneing on and off the pitch or, we lack the balls to do anything about it.

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[quote user="City1st"][quote user="Brienne"]

Ricardo, do you think it was the correct decision to keep Hughton at least up to this point in the season, and if not when do you personally think he should have gone?[/quote]At the end of last seasonThere was clear player dissatisfaction and I believe the board mistakenly thought that having a disciplaniarian/bully would quell that back biting and ''keep every one in line''.It hasn''t worked and has badly backfiredWhether the board feels that after turfing out lambert they could not be seen to get rid of another manager, I don''t know and doubt that is the case.But the anecdotal evidence is that Hughton is not widely liked outside of the board, and there must be something they know that we don''t as the evidence of the performances, player development and unity would have had him out months ago.All very odd, to be honest.

[/quote]Yes, that much is obvious. I have no idea what the contractual implications are but no doubt they play some part.Looking back at the seven year plan, perhaps McNally is not as worried about relegation as he let on since it was all part of that plan.[:D]Seriously though, it''s never pleasant to see somebody fail. The club invested their faith in Chris Hughton and most people thought and hoped that he would, given enough time. Others will say he was given far too much time but if it ends in relegation their pain won''t be any less for being able to say "I told you so". If the faith of the Board proves to have been misplaced then as sure as eggs are eggs, heads will roll

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[quote user="Reggie Strayshun"]

And, your point about the Chase Out demos is a bit of a red herring, with respect. It is in no way comparable to the current situation, as , like it or not, Mr Chase was the man with his hands ultimately on the purse strings at the time. Not true of Mc N, let alone Hughton .[/quote]I didn''t say it was comparable, simply that it was loud and universal enough to provoke a reaction. Something that until now has not been the case re CH.

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[quote user="ricardo"][quote user="Reggie Strayshun"]

And, your point about the Chase Out demos is a bit of a red herring, with respect. It is in no way comparable to the current situation, as , like it or not, Mr Chase was the man with his hands ultimately on the purse strings at the time. Not true of Mc N, let alone Hughton .[/quote]I didn''t say it was comparable, simply that it was loud and universal enough to provoke a reaction. Something that until now has not been the case re CH.[/quote]Well, again, I''m afraid you did, Rick. You said that with Hughton we''d seen nothing approaching the ''Chase Out '' demos. ie a comparison.But, I take your point. It is of course true that the fans have not been as loud in their demands for CH''s removal...yet. But it''s unfair to suggest, surely, that the opinions have not been passionately held, and by significant numbers ?

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My problem with the argument for replacing Hughton has always been who would replace him. Look at Carfiff. They sacked Malky and brought in a manager who''s inexperience is now being exposed and it looks like the change will probably take them down. I''ve never seen a name suggested on here that I thought would be an improvement (although some names from other leagues I can''t comment on but would inherently be a gamble).

So I still feel the Board made the right decision to keep CH based on the info they had and the alternatives.

As for the OP I have never believed for a minute he is a City fan.

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Regardless of how angry and frustrated you get...a real Norwich City supporter just would not say this.....likewise they wouldnt wish for the team to suffer a loss to get a manager out......

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[quote user="Dubai Mark"]Regardless of how angry and frustrated you get...a real Norwich City supporter just would not say this.....likewise they wouldnt wish for the team to suffer a loss to get a manager out......[/quote]

And this is coming from plastic. The irony of it

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[quote user="Waveney Canary"][quote user="Dubai Mark"]Regardless of how angry and frustrated you get...a real Norwich City supporter just would not say this.....likewise they wouldnt wish for the team to suffer a loss to get a manager out......[/quote] And this is coming from plastic. The irony of it[/quote]

 

You have to hand it to Waveney. He doesn''t give up does he? Easter Holidays, and his team lost yesterday (to Blackburn). Good and bad. Mostly bad.

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[quote user="Reggie Strayshun"][quote user="ricardo"][quote user="Reggie Strayshun"]

And, your point about the Chase Out demos is a bit of a red herring, with respect. It is in no way comparable to the current situation, as , like it or not, Mr Chase was the man with his hands ultimately on the purse strings at the time. Not true of Mc N, let alone Hughton .[/quote]I didn''t say it was comparable, simply that it was loud and universal enough to provoke a reaction. Something that until now has not been the case re CH.[/quote]Well, again, I''m afraid you did, Rick. You said that with Hughton we''d seen nothing approaching the ''Chase Out '' demos. ie a comparison.But, I take your point. It is of course true that the fans have not been as loud in their demands for CH''s removal...yet. But it''s unfair to suggest, surely, that the opinions have not been passionately held, and by significant numbers ?[/quote]Fairly or unfairly, I don''t think I''ve ever questioned the sincerity of other peoples passionately held views. My point is that until now they have been in the significant minority. Either that or a lot of passionate people didn''t feel sufficiently passionate enough to make the feelings known during a match at CR. We have had a bit of booing when the crowd disagreed with his substitutions but that''s been about the sum of it. That is the only thing that changed yesterday. I don''t know what it''s been like at away grounds because I am no longer able to go but the "Hughton Out" calls were the first bit of sustained vocal protest that I have heard this season and the first time that I''ve really felt that his days were numbered.Having said that they didn''t start until very late in the game were nowhere near of the intensity of the "Worthy/ Burnley game. However they were certainly sustained long enough for McNally and the Board to hear them and judging by how this has ended in the past I can now only see this culminating in the managers demise.Perhaps McNally thinks there''s more to be lost than gained but only future events will show if this judgement is right or wrong. As I see it. either way we are in trouble and either way there is now no chance of Hughton being here next season.

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