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Kirkstall Yellow

Thoughts on Fulham, Hughton, Adams and the Future.

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I’m, obviously, still very worried, but today I’m excited about our chances.

I must be honest, I was an inner until the last few weeks. I have made his apologies and excuses, and I still feel he had a shot at getting the points we needed. But, lets face it, we probably would have lost to Fulham, got smashed by liverpool, man utd and chelsea and then, confidence in tatters, blown it in a nervy tie against arsenal leaving us relegated without a fight.

It is clear that we needed a change. Our lack of desire, and consistency, have been a major worry. And lets not even talk about the ‘strikers’.

But the big thing for me was that Hughton completely lost the crowd on Saturday. Whilst I don’t condone the Hughton out chanting, or angry scenes and clappers being thrown at the pitch, it clearly showed that the discontent among supporters was no longer restricted to the minority. The board know how important it is for a united support for these crucial last 5 games and that is, in my opinion, one of the reasons why they’ve acted.

My obvious concern is that this is another Bryan Gunn moment. Or an Alan Shearer. What is clear is that we cannot afford to lose to Fulham, and we need a win from somewhere. The ‘New Manager Syndrome’ of other teams always seems to kick us, so maybe this could be our chance to benefit from it for once.

My secondary concern is that I’m left wondering if perhaps Hughton’s safety first habit would actually have been a good thing for us considering our last 4 games. Adams has already said that he will be looking to address our lack of goals, but perhaps now is not the time to be experimenting with a more progressive approach.

I find the rumour of a ‘senior player’ suggesting Hughton’s criticisms creating a ‘fear of mistakes’ which in turn stifled creativity very interesting. I can truly understand that. Maybe Adams will allow a little more flexibility within his system, giving the players a chance to express themselves, and hopefully, perform at their best. Because at the moment we lack the spirit for the fight, and we need it back. Immediately.

I am certain that a change was needed, perhaps earlier would have been better, but we have it now. Its what the majority of us ended up wanting, and we have to ensure we get being Adams and the lads 100% for the rest of the season.

I always liked Neil as a player, and I was delighted with his success in the FA Youth Cup last year. I hope he will be just the shot in the arm that we need. I desperately want him to be a success, and for the summer to arrive with us reflecting on another masterstroke from McNally.

Hello Neeyul, bring on Fulham (a)!

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All of us are worried, whether inners or outers. Our performances over the past month or so, even when we beat Sunderland, didn''t offer much encouragement.

For good or ill, the decision has been made - we go the last five games with Neil Adams, and we must hope that we get the four or so points we need,

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I''m optimistic about our chances for the first time in ages. Now that the cloud of negativity, failure, self depreciation and losing mentality from Hughton has been lifted I have no doubt we''ll stay up. We need one more win and to not lose to Fulham under someone not hellbound on choking all spark and imagination out of the team and with the fans onside I''m sure we''ll get the results!

I don''t want Adams to get the job in the summer even if we somehow win all 5 games though, it would be too much of a risk, let him finish the season as a hero and we can look to appointing a progressive, forward thinking manager from Europe in the summer

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Good measured op, Kirkstall.   It shows the difficulty of either course of action.   No one knows now whether Hughton could have got those results - although most would say not.   The burst of positivity might just do the trick to get us that extra win - but again it might not.   Whatever happens, the board have made the decision and we go with it.    It was always going to be a roller coaster end to this season, so we aren''t being disappointed!

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Kirstall, good post fully agree.With CH I couldn''t see us getting anything from Fulham, then maybe a draw from one of our last 4 games = 33 pts, highly likely to be relegatedas Fulham would have got 3 pts from us and would have had the confidence to go on and get more pts from us.Cardiff & Sunderland in my oipinion are down, leaving one spot up for grabs.The change happened, late but better than never. Adams as a true fan would have been able to see what the rest of us have seen from months, the game play is negative, playing not to lose without a threat going forward and players scared to take on players thus not creating the space, player scared to put a foot wrong and lose the ball, and not fighing to get the ball back quick enough, playing sideways at the back and midfield player playing to deep to get the ball from the defenders and then having no-one to pass it to, insufficent crosses from the by-line etc etc.Now we have Adams, who knows the top-job is up for grabs, with pride and money on the table, with 3 pts on Saturday comes a massive prize, players will be told to play for the badge and fight for everything and go for it.When we played West Brom last year the players seemed as though they really wanted it and I guess they played for themselves and ignored CHwas Holt the leader then ? well come on Martin & Snoddy roll your selves up and take over and show the Scottish grit.Redmond= Attack, take on players and get to the byline and cross backSnoddy = do the sameHave RVW & Hooper both up front.Elmander =DropAsk the players anyone not prepared to play for us in the championship for one yera to correct the mess they caused drop them.

How about Adams & Huckerby to lead the club forward.Attack is the best form of defence.

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There seems to be a misconception that "Hughton lost the crowd " on Saturday. With all due respect that really is bollax, Hughton lost the crowd a long time ago, on Saturday the manner of the loss and the importance of the game caused the crowd to become vocal, but those people who were chanting hadnt made their minds up on one performance , this has been there a long long time.

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[quote user="Brienne"]There seems to be a misconception that "Hughton lost the crowd " on Saturday. With all due respect that really is bollax, Hughton lost the crowd a long time ago, on Saturday the manner of the loss and the importance of the game caused the crowd to become vocal, but those people who were chanting hadnt made their minds up on one performance , this has been there a long long time.[/quote]On Saturday some of the crowd lost patience with the team and turned on both players and Hughton at the end of the game. In fairness Hughton never "had" the crowd but we always stuck with the team up until that point.

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[quote user="Brienne"]There seems to be a misconception that "Hughton lost the crowd " on Saturday. With all due respect that really is bollax, Hughton lost the crowd a long time ago, on Saturday the manner of the loss and the importance of the game caused the crowd to become vocal, but those people who were chanting hadnt made their minds up on one performance , this has been there a long long time.[/quote]No he didn''t, the majority might have been unhappy but he had by no means lost the crowd. When that happens everybody knows about it and having seen it happen many times before It becomes very obvious when it''s all over for a manager. That time was 4.45pm on Saturday. The rumblings have been there a long time but they did not boil over against Spurs, Stoke, Sunderland etc and had we got a result Saturday it''s unlikely they would have boiled over then.There may have been many pushing at the door but the lock didn''t break until 4.45pm Saturday. I knew it, you knew it and the Board knew it.

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One of the problems the board has had was there wasn''t an earlier defining moment. I said on an earlier thread that I feared that the West Brom game would be the first "must win" that CH lost. And so it proved. The cork came out of the bottle and that was the end of CH.

 

Even then, if Mick Dennis is right, there was a "make your pitch" conversation , and the board didn''t like what they heard. Until McN writes his book (which he certainly will) we wont know.

 

It''s wonderful to speculate what else happened. Did some of the senior players like Russ make representations to the Board? He is very friendly with McN, and can clearly speak on the same level.

 

Here another conundrum. Why is the replacement Adams? No long contract , easy-ish option, mega bonus to stay up so no short term expense? Could it be that if he loses 2 or 3 ANOTHER manager will be given 2 games to keep us up? Again, when many were saying that it was too late to change, it has proven that it wasn''t, well not in the opinion of the board.  It is all about securing those points, and I''m going to suggest that if Adams loses 3 in a row, another dice may be rolled.  

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[quote user="GPB"]when many were saying that it was too late to change, it has proven that it wasn''t, well not in the opinion of the board.  It is all about securing those points, and I''m going to suggest that if Adams loses 3 in a row, another dice may be rolled.  [/quote]

No, I don''t think it was a case of too late to change it was more that Hughton managed to do just enough to keep us above the real danger zone. It is never too late to change but it must have looked to the Board that change might be counter-productive  while there was a certain degree of comfort. We have invariably been in the 4-7 point range above the drop but with the final run in coming up it really needed to be 8-10 at this stage.It was no surprise to me that they didn''t act before Saturday it always looked odds against. Then after Saturday it was plain to see that the odds had tilted very sharply the other way and again it was no surprise when they finally acted.

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There have been we want Hughton out chants before Ricky, Saturday was,ade worse by the availability of clappers which were thrown on to the pitch. i think you are making too much of this one event, this has been building for ages and has been bubbling under the surface, there were we want Hughto out chants at Fulham after the cup defeat, fans were chanting Malky''s name. If the concept of losing the crowd was the driver for the decision to sack him then there was good cause to do it ages ago. I think it was more about our desperate performance and the realisation that relegation was very likely. Thats should have been picked up ages ago.

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[quote user="Brienne"]There have been we want Hughton out chants before Ricky, Saturday was,ade worse by the availability of clappers which were thrown on to the pitch. i think you are making too much of this one event, this has been building for ages and has been bubbling under the surface, there were we want Hughto out chants at Fulham after the cup defeat, fans were chanting Malky''s name. If the concept of losing the crowd was the driver for the decision to sack him then there was good cause to do it ages ago. I think it was more about our desperate performance and the realisation that relegation was very likely. Thats should have been picked up ages ago.[/quote]Indeed there have but a defining moment was never reached and that has to happen before the realisation sets in that its all over.I''ve seen it happen with many managers down the years and when you go through a bad patch there is always a measure of dissent. You don''t have to go back very far to see examples of this in action;t he last time was for Nigel Worthington. He had suffered for a while but it was the humiliation of the Burnley defeat that did for him. You didn''t have to be Nostrodamus to know what was coming next.As I said on other threads, many have been forecasting his demise for moths but it never looked to be imminent to me until just before the end on Saturday. It''s like a dam breaking, the pressure builds up but when it goes it goes all at once. Nobody who was there on Saturday and had seen events similar over the years could have been in any doubt about how things would turn out. The only surprise was that the decision didn''t come until Sunday evening.

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Speaking of the future, here''s a strange one ......

http://m.sport.ro/stranieri/a-fost-eliberat-primul-loc-in-premier-league-pentru-dan-petrescu-visul-de-o-viata-i-se-poate-implini-in.html

"It was released first in the Premier League for Dan Petrescu! The dream of a life may be fulfilled at any time .......

"After leaving the Dynamo, I want to get to England. I never hid it, I want more to coach there, especially in London," said Petrescu in a interview in the winter. Palace and Fulham If tracks are now locked, Petrescu he can make room for Norwich. The team ranked 17th in the Premier League has just fired coach Chris Hughton, and put in place Neil Adams, former junior manager. Adams has 5 games available to demonstrate that it can be a long term solution, otherwise bosses have announced that they will give it up. Even if it''s 5 points over Fulham, Norwich has a horror final season: derby saving even against the Londoners, and 5-star matches Liverpool, Man United, Chelsea and Arsenal! Norwich is not the only solution available for Super Dan. In summer, it could be reopened talks with Fulham, especially for relegation, but with Championship clubs."

ooh - er missus

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"Nobody who was there on Saturday and had seen events similar over the years could have been in any doubt about how things would turn out. The only surprise was that the decision didn''t come until Sunday evening."

I didnt notice your reference to this bombshell in your excellent machday report Ricky.

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Ricky''s post on his matchday thread:

We have been walking a tightrope all season. I was hoping we could keep our balance a little longer but it seriously looks like we will fall off just before the end. Hughton has proved a master at clinging on by his fingernails but you got the feeling that this afternoon was a bit of a "Worthington" moment. Will he make it until the last game? I don''t know but the odds have tilted against him today. Perhaps this time he really will be "gone by Monday".

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I like this thread, but right now I need convincing that we have much more of a chance winning at Fulham than we did before the sacking of CH. Now, I am fully behind Neil Adams of course, BUT.......its a huge ask to get the three points from a Fulham side at home who in the last couple of matches have played very well and, who will of course, be as up for it as we are.

I am praying for a bounce...even if it is just for this one game, which could well be enough. However, my fear is that we do open up and then get caught out and suffer a tonking, I''d rather come out of the game with a hard earned point.....that said, maybe I have been brain washed by our cautious approach previously.......

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[quote user="Brienne"]"Nobody who was there on Saturday and had seen events similar over the years could have been in any doubt about how things would turn out. The only surprise was that the decision didn''t come until Sunday evening."

I didnt notice your reference to this bombshell in your excellent machday report Ricky.[/quote]Ron beat me to the punch with his copy of my post on Saturday at 7.15pm.Seems very plain to me that as someone who repeatedly said he couldn''t see it happening in the weeks before, that I had picked on exactly the right moment to say that the wind had changed direction.Perhaps I''ve seen it more times than most on here so found it easier to see what had changed. It certainly looked like a defining moment to me.

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[quote user="Dubai Mark"]

I like this thread, but right now I need convincing that we have much more of a chance winning at Fulham than we did before the sacking of CH. Now, I am fully behind Neil Adams of course, BUT.......its a huge ask to get the three points from a Fulham side at home who in the last couple of matches have played very well and, who will of course, be as up for it as we are.

I am praying for a bounce...even if it is just for this one game, which could well be enough. However, my fear is that we do open up and then get caught out and suffer a tonking, I''d rather come out of the game with a hard earned point.....that said, maybe I have been brain washed by our cautious approach previously.......

[/quote]Mark, it puts me in mind of the time John Bond did a runner and Ken Brown took up the reins. The next game was away at Coventry where we had an abysmal record. Greg Downes scored and we won 1-0.I hope it''s an omen.[Y]

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[quote user="Brienne"]I now see it in a subsequent post on your match report thread, you were spot on with the call.[/quote]ThanksThe only compensation with getting old is that when things start to come round a second and third time you tend to recognise them for what they are.I''ve seen relegation a few times as well but I''m trying very hard not to notice it. Hopefully it will go away.[:D]

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"The only compensation with getting old is that when things start to come round a second and third time ..... you end up asking matron if that is the lunch or tea trolly"

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im just hoping he plays redmond on the right wing and snodgrass either plays centrally or is dropped to the benchwe need quick wingers on their natural side, hopefully adams being an ex wide man has picked up on this

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I am more confident about Saturday, than I would''ve been if Hughton was still in charge. I do, however, wish there were 4 more winnable games after that as it seems this weekend is the biggest game in terms of a chance to get something and prevent Fulham picking up points.

After Saturday, things can surely only get better. Adams sounded confident and that he had a plan in his interview and fingers crossed the players respond and we snatch enough points to keep us up.

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I think the unknown could give us the edge on Saturday. Maybe just a shame it didn''t happen a week earlier WBA were there for the taking.

Couldn''t see us winning another game under Hughton.

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[quote user="City1st"]"The only compensation with getting old is that when things start to come round a second and third time ..... you end up asking matron if that is the lunch or tea trolly"

[/quote]LOL, yes, that''s starting to sound very familiar.[Y]

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