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LostTheFaith

The divide has not gone and never will but.....

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What divides supporters is expectation.

There are those that expect us to be challenging with the likes of Southampton, Newcastle, Everton, spurs. The mid table teams who struggle to challenge for anything of note.

There are others, like me, who expect us to be in a relagation battle every year. The previouse two years were at the high end of my expectation in terms of league finish. This year comes at no surprise.

I go to all home games and our home form being what it was I was content, not happy, but content. I have been to one away match, yes I am a happy clapper I hear you shout, at west ham and was happy with the efforts of our club.

I never ever boo. I might shout encouragement with the odd profanity but never ever Boo.

So I was content, not happy, as things were as I expected. League position and club finances are generally very close tables.

So while there is a huge devide in expectations we will only ever be truly united when the club is exceeding expectations.

Until then all we can do is come togethers at every match and support our team, our club, our love.

Good luck Mr Adams. OTBC

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It was a battle of right v wrong. Good v evil and like all good stories the goodies or the outers win the day.

It is now time for peace and reconciliation and get behind Mr Adams

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The only thing I have ever expected is that after all the trouble of getting to this league we will do everything possible to stay there for a bit longer.I don''t expect us to be permanent members but neither do I expect it to be needlessly thrown away.

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Nobody wins. Our position is the same as it was. We have match equivalent to a play off final to come at the weekend.

This can go either way. Fingers crossed.

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ricardo wrote the following post at 07/04/2014 5:36 PM:

The only thing I have ever expected is that after all the trouble of getting to this league we will do everything possible to stay there for a bit longer.

I don''t expect us to be permanent members but neither do I expect it to be needlessly thrown away.

Agree with this. CH was unfortunately taking us down. I wanted it to work but not at the expense of our premier league status. That is not guarenteed but feels a bit closer today.

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I do not think challenging for Europe was/is on any bodies expected list. There are many who think somewhere between 6th and 10th is where we should be aiming for.

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To expand upon what Ricardo had to say, there are seasons where things go against you in terms of finances, the need to sell your star players and, more importantly, your leaders, your inability to acquire a key player that is capable of making the formations work, a Board that is not supporting or working effectively with the manager as well as a host of other things that, if wrong, can send the club spiraling downwards.

 

In my opinion, this is not the case at NCFC this season and, therefore, I would also say to see us go down this season would be disappointing because it did not need to be thrown away. With the right kind of mindset the squad that we have were more than capable of putting us in a much more comfortable position than we currently find ourselves. The one loss that I do think was significant was the manner of departure of Grant Holt. I am not speaking to whether or not he was past his best but he had the leadership quality among the players that we still have not replaced. He became disillusioned in terms of the style play that was being  asked of the players and that would not have been lost on others as he departed.

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[quote user="ricardo"]The only thing I have ever expected is that after all the trouble of getting to this league we will do everything possible to stay there for a bit longer.

I don''t expect us to be permanent members but neither do I expect it to be needlessly thrown away.
[/quote]

 

This is absolutely spot on. I enjoy banter with Ricardo, and I love his more positive viewpoint to my own. Ricardo is my yang to his ying or however that works.

 

What has frustrated me most this year is that I havent thought we have done what we can to stay in a division that it takes us a lot of hard work, and a bit of luck, to get into . I have always thought that we needed to control the controllable, and in our case it was change a management team that wasn''t working. My fear now is that we have left it too late, and perhaps not got a big hitter in, but at least we haven''t just sat on our hands.

 

Saturday was an ordeal. All of the old feelings were back a la the day Worthy went. As I suggested on the night most of the fans around me had had enough , as we walked out it was a sea of moaning. Your average Football Fan doesn''t need an A Licence to regard the subsitution of Becchio as a complete act of desperation ... that didnt work.

We all know we will go down at some point. It will be tough, but under the right circumstances it will be acceptable . A good friend of mine is a Blackpool fan. He loved the year they had, never doubted their intention or their effort.  As a City fan I would feel the same.

 

But to have kept it the same all year without have a punt, or as Ricardo says, a roll of the dice, would have been criminal.

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[quote user="YankeeCanary"]

 

To expand upon what Ricardo had to say, there are seasons where things go against you in terms of finances, the need to sell your star players and, more importantly, your leaders, your inability to acquire a key player that is capable of making the formations work, a Board that is not supporting or working effectively with the manager as well as a host of other things that, if wrong, can send the club spiraling downwards.

 

In my opinion, this is not the case at NCFC this season and, therefore, I would also say to see us go down this season would be disappointing because it did not need to be thrown away. With the right kind of mindset the squad that we have were more than capable of putting us in a much more comfortable position than we currently find ourselves. The one loss that I do think was significant was the manner of departure of Grant Holt. I am not speaking to whether or not he was past his best but he had the leadership quality among the players that we still have not replaced. He became disillusioned in terms of the style play that was being  asked of the players and that would not have been lost on others as he departed.

[/quote]

 

And Yankee is right too. Bit of a love in tonight .

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For me my expectations are based on what I can see with my own eyes, not necessarily the league table. This is why you can still be unhappy with 11th. Last seasons final table really masked the deep seated problems, we were never that comfortable in terms of league position and really were fortunate with the way it all panned out. Lessons were not learned, problems remained unsolved. For me its about how the team plays. If we play in a cohesive manner, the players look happy, interested, passionate and we play some effective football, Im not too concerned about results, as swings and roundabouts and all of that, as long as we''re doing the right things and its plausible that our fortunes may change.

With Hughton I have felt the football was deeply dysfunctional, right from the start. I accepted this was due to transition last season and gave Hughton the benefit of the doubt. Without reproducing all the statistics, put bluntly we cant defend, we cant score and look like we had no idea how the ball was going to end up in the opponents net. Players looked frustrated, football was horrifically ineffective and awful to watch. i never really knew how Hughtons approach was supposed to work. Flawed from the start and consistently ineffective.

If I watcxh what I consider to be fundamental flaws and a team underperforming, then I am going to blame the manager.

Regardless of the clubs league position, I watched a group of talented players morph into mere shadows of themselves, and eventually this impacted on league position. If we were in this league position but I believed in the players and how they were playing, like I did 10 years ago, then I wouldnt have called for the managers head. My expectation is based on what I believe the players were capable of in their performances, and that to a man (with the exception of Olsson) they have all underperformed. Only one person to blame for that - the manager.

All the time I feel the players are capable of more, I will be unhappy. It has nothing to do with the clubs league position or who we are challenging

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[quote user="ricardo"]The only thing I have ever expected is that after all the trouble of getting to this league we will do everything possible to stay there for a bit longer.I don''t expect us to be permanent members but neither do I expect it to be needlessly thrown away.[/quote]
Here! Here!
This has been my problem all season. If we applied 100% of the teams ability and effort on the pitch in every one of the 33 games played thus far, I would imagine we would be higher in the table and on more points. I don''t mind if we are destined to be in a relegation battle each season if that is the extent of our ability, but we all know it is not.

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I''ve never seen anyone on here expecting us to challenge with Everton or Spurs. I suggest the OP has delusions of some form. All anyone has ever wanted is for us to make a good try. Such has been the poor nature of the league this year, that if we''d tried in a few more games we could be in 10th. Not challenging for the league but just having had a go at doing better. I suggest the OP is of some way connected to the now former management team or is perhaps a man who moves rubbish in plastic containers....

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[quote user="Graham Paddons Beard"]

This is absolutely spot on. I enjoy banter with Ricardo, and I love his more

positive viewpoint to my own. Ricardo is my yang to his ying or however that

works.

 

[/quote]
 
He''s not one of the six then? I''m struggling now Beardo you''re gonna have to help me out...
 
 

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[quote user="The Great Mass Debater"]

For me my expectations are based on what I can see with my own eyes, not necessarily the league table. This is why you can still be unhappy with 11th. Last seasons final table really masked the deep seated problems, we were never that comfortable in terms of league position and really were fortunate with the way it all panned out. Lessons were not learned, problems remained unsolved. For me its about how the team plays. If we play in a cohesive manner, the players look happy, interested, passionate and we play some effective football, Im not too concerned about results, as swings and roundabouts and all of that, as long as we''re doing the right things and its plausible that our fortunes may change.

With Hughton I have felt the football was deeply dysfunctional, right from the start. I accepted this was due to transition last season and gave Hughton the benefit of the doubt. Without reproducing all the statistics, put bluntly we cant defend, we cant score and look like we had no idea how the ball was going to end up in the opponents net. Players looked frustrated, football was horrifically ineffective and awful to watch. i never really knew how Hughtons approach was supposed to work. Flawed from the start and consistently ineffective.

If I watcxh what I consider to be fundamental flaws and a team underperforming, then I am going to blame the manager.

Regardless of the clubs league position, I watched a group of talented players morph into mere shadows of themselves, and eventually this impacted on league position. If we were in this league position but I believed in the players and how they were playing, like I did 10 years ago, then I wouldnt have called for the managers head. My expectation is based on what I believe the players were capable of in their performances, and that to a man (with the exception of Olsson) they have all underperformed. Only one person to blame for that - the manager.

All the time I feel the players are capable of more, I will be unhappy. It has nothing to do with the clubs league position or who we are challenging

[/quote]excellent post, absolutely spot onAs to the OP that is a load of old bo  llox and well he knows. A cheap trick where by you set up an Aunt Sally to knock down. In this case some supposed high expectation of challenging Spurs, Everton etcNo one has those expectations (hopes, perhaps) but they do have the expectation of seeing the squad managed correctly and the team motivated to challenge.The real divide is between those on here who have a genuine interest and support of the club and the ragbag of mischief makers, trolls and closet binners.

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[quote user="The Great Mass Debater"]

For me my expectations are based on what I can see with my own eyes, not necessarily the league table. This is why you can still be unhappy with 11th. Last seasons final table really masked the deep seated problems, we were never that comfortable in terms of league position and really were fortunate with the way it all panned out. Lessons were not learned, problems remained unsolved. For me its about how the team plays. If we play in a cohesive manner, the players look happy, interested, passionate and we play some effective football, Im not too concerned about results, as swings and roundabouts and all of that, as long as we''re doing the right things and its plausible that our fortunes may change.

With Hughton I have felt the football was deeply dysfunctional, right from the start. I accepted this was due to transition last season and gave Hughton the benefit of the doubt. Without reproducing all the statistics, put bluntly we cant defend, we cant score and look like we had no idea how the ball was going to end up in the opponents net. Players looked frustrated, football was horrifically ineffective and awful to watch. i never really knew how Hughtons approach was supposed to work. Flawed from the start and consistently ineffective.

If I watcxh what I consider to be fundamental flaws and a team underperforming, then I am going to blame the manager.

Regardless of the clubs league position, I watched a group of talented players morph into mere shadows of themselves, and eventually this impacted on league position. If we were in this league position but I believed in the players and how they were playing, like I did 10 years ago, then I wouldnt have called for the managers head. My expectation is based on what I believe the players were capable of in their performances, and that to a man (with the exception of Olsson) they have all underperformed. Only one person to blame for that - the manager.

All the time I feel the players are capable of more, I will be unhappy. It has nothing to do with the clubs league position or who we are challenging

[/quote]I know how it was plausibly explained by one poster here. Based on what little I

saw last season I was a Hughton supporter because of what I thought he

was trying to do. In crude terms a switch from Lambert''s gung-ho cavalry

charges to a more sophisticated style, of solid defence allied to fast

counter-attacking. As exemplified by Arsenal and Man Utd at home.Now

according to Parma Ham, who seemed to be up on tctics and coaching, this was not Hughton''s aim, and based on how we

played this season Parma''s analysis seems correct. Fast

counter-attacking was banned, because although it gave us a good chance

of catching the opposition defence out of position, if we then lost the

ball we would be at risk.Instead, if an opposition attack broke

down, we would hold on to the ball and attack slowly and cautiously,

very much keeping formation. The downside, plainly, was that the opposition would have time to regroup and be in a good position to defend.But,

the theory was, we would be able to keep possession until such time as

either a small chink appeared in the opposition defence or it would lose

patience and rush at us and get out of position. Then the killing pass

could be made.Possibly fine in theory, but fatally flawed in

practice in three ways. It required a near-impregnable defence, a

midfield able to keep posession Barcelona-style, and at least one genius

striker able to convert a very high percentage of the very few chances

that would come their way.

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I think what truly divides the fans are those focussed on Norwich city and those focussed on how Norwich city are doing compared to other clubs.

Far too much "peering over the fence"

Too much crying Over Swansea and Southampton.

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Be amazed if the "Adams out out out" and "Lennon out out out" signature banners haven''t been made already.

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[quote user="Brienne"]You got there in the end Wiz, they had to listen to you. What are your predictions for the Adams reign?[/quote]

 

Nothing but success Brienne.

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]
[quote user="Graham Paddons Beard"]

This is absolutely spot on. I enjoy banter with Ricardo, and I love his more

positive viewpoint to my own. Ricardo is my yang to his ying or however that

works.

 

[/quote]
 
He''s not one of the six then? I''m struggling now Beardo you''re gonna have to help me out...
 
 
[/quote]No doubt a lot of people had me labelled as "one of the six" Nigel.I have tried to explain numerous times that it didn''t matter to me whether Chris Hughton was manager of NCFC or Tesco''s. As long he was doing an adequate job pointswise I could see no reason to sack him and in many threads you rightly showed that his Premier League record was as close to Lambert''s as makes no difference. I never bought into the argument about "Style", results always come first IMO.Had we won on Saturday he would still be here and I would still be supporting him. We would probably had sufficient points to stay up and he would have survived until the summer during which time things could have been reappraised. However as we all know it''s "events" that change things and the "event" at 4.45pm on Saturday was the tipping point. You have been going to CR long enough to recognise a "Worthy" moment and I''m sure it was as obvious to you as It was to me that Hughton''s time was up.We have both seen enough managers at CR to know that they all let you down one way or another. Either they fail or they move on up so it serves no useful purpose to invest any emotional attachment to them. Unfortunately many did exactly that with Paul Lambert and we are now paying the price.. I warned people at the time that the Lambert years were an aberration. I''ve never seen anything like it before and I am sure I never will again. Far too many people have started to think that level of excitement and progress was the norm rather than the exception and now every manager will be expected to perform at that level. It won''t happen.I am now an Adams supporter and I fervently hope he will succeed but I know for certain that whatever happens and however long he is here he will be gone at sometime down the line. I hope he will be remembered as a success but I think we all know that this is very long odds for any incumbent of the CR hot seat.

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[quote user="ricardo"][quote user="nutty nigel"]
[quote user="Graham Paddons Beard"]

This is absolutely spot on. I enjoy banter with Ricardo, and I love his more

positive viewpoint to my own. Ricardo is my yang to his ying or however that

works.

 

[/quote]
 
He''s not one of the six then? I''m struggling now Beardo you''re gonna have to help me out...
 
 
[/quote]No doubt a lot of people had me labelled as "one of the six" Nigel.I have tried to explain numerous times that it didn''t matter to me whether Chris Hughton was manager of NCFC or Tesco''s. As long he was doing an adequate job pointswise I could see no reason to sack him and in many threads you rightly showed that his Premier League record was as close to Lambert''s as makes no difference. I never bought into the argument about "Style", results always come first IMO.Had we won on Saturday he would still be here and I would still be supporting him. We would probably had sufficient points to stay up and he would have survived until the summer during which time things could have been reappraised. However as we all know it''s "events" that change things and the "event" at 4.45pm on Saturday was the tipping point. You have been going to CR long enough to recognise a "Worthy" moment and I''m sure it was as obvious to you as It was to me that Hughton''s time was up.We have both seen enough managers at CR to know that they all let you down one way or another. Either they fail or they move on up so it serves no useful purpose to invest any emotional attachment to them. Unfortunately many did exactly that with Paul Lambert and we are now paying the price.. I warned people at the time that the Lambert years were an aberration. I''ve never seen anything like it before and I am sure I never will again. Far too many people have started to think that level of excitement and progress was the norm rather than the exception and now every manager will be expected to perform at that level. It won''t happen.I am now an Adams supporter and I fervently hope he will succeed but I know for certain that whatever happens and however long he is here he will be gone at sometime down the line. I hope he will be remembered as a success but I think we all know that this is very long odds for any incumbent of the CR hot seat.

[/quote]I think there is a fair case that the early Bond years were on a par, ricardo. And if he had taken us over in the third tier I can well imagine we would equally have stormed through the divisions. But your general point is correct.

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I think we can compete with the likes of Hull, Swansea and Southampton. All of them have had cup success, a decent full premiership season and some quality international players in their ranks.

Even Bolton and Wigan had seasons where they were comfortably top half. I want at least one of those before we drop back down.

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[quote user="Waveney Canary"]It was a battle of right v wrong. Good v evil and like all good stories the goodies or the outers win the day.

It is now time for peace and reconciliation and get behind Mr Adams[/quote]

And you''re still a tw@t. Are you ever going to get bored and leave this board to real fans?

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[quote user="KeepTheFaith"]What divides supporters is expectation.

There are those that expect us to be challenging with the likes of Southampton, Newcastle, Everton, spurs. The mid table teams who struggle to challenge for anything of note.

[/quote]

Quite how you''ve decided that Everton and Spurs don''t challenge for anything of note is beyond me. Everton have been challenging for Europe 8 out of their last 10 premier league seasons. Spurs have been in Europe 6 of their last 10 seasons, won the league cup, been runners up in the league cup, and two FA Cup semi finals hardly leads me to believe they don''t challenge for anything of note.

I do however believe that we should be AIMING to challenge with the likes of Southampton, Stoke, Aston Villa, Newcastle etc. Whether we achieve this aim or not, we need to have given it our best shot. I don''t believe we were doing this under Hughton and fully back the decision to sack him. It may well have been too late but to have gone down with a whimper would have been a bigger disgrace in my opinion.

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