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Don't forget Hillsborough silence at Fulham Saturday

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Silence at 3.06

kick off at 3.07

That should give everyone plenty of time to grab some food and get in seats in time for the silence.

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[quote user="Gingerpele"]The Fulham fans will presumably be planning their usual 90 minute silence?[/quote]

haha brilliant. Love to see them out of the premiership, much bigger clubs that could take their place

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[quote user="jas the barclay king"]

how come the media ram hillsboro down our throats "Lest we forget"

but this seems to ahve been swept under the carpet - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradford_City_stadium_fire

will any games being played on the 11th kick off at 3:40 nearly 30 years later???

 

[/quote]

 

Bradford was of course a tragedy. But there was no concerted conspiracy by the Police and the Government to balme the fire on the Bradford fans themselves.

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Just to play devils advocate here a bit. We all know the police and government tried to cover up a lot of what happened and deserve the criticism they are getting and some people will end up in jail and quite rightly so.......

However, the fact that hundreds possibly thousands of liverpool fans turned up without tickets and stormed the turnstiles, which caused the mass crush and the actual deaths, somehow seems to be forgotten.

Yes if the police and stewards had done a better job it could have been prevented, but on the flip side if those fans without tickets hadn''t have turned up the same could be said.

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It really isn''t accurate to say that the Liverpool fans "stormed" the turnstiles. No doubt this will all be covered at the new inquests, but the accepted version seems to be that, by 2.50 there will still thousands outside the Leppings Lane End, in response to which the police decided to open the gates, effectively completely bypassing the turnstiles. It was that decision which lead to sections of the Leppings Lane End simply being swamped.

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Nobody actually knows how many fans were there without tickets or with fake tickets. This is just what the press and police eluded to.Some Liverpool fans even say that they had tickets for the less populated Forest areas and were sent to the Leppings Lane end by the police.The fact is, the police opened the gates, not the fans, and it moved a crush from the narrow street behind in to the central pen. If they''d opened all three pens and/or shut the middle pen when it was full, we probably wouldn''t be talking about it today.

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May be some confusion with Hysel and Hillsborough.At Hillsborough the police (allegedly) directed Liverpool fans into already crowded areas of the stand and 96 died whereas at Hysel Liverpool fans stormed the fences for no reason other than to attack the Juventus fans and 39 people died.Obviously we only have a minutes silence for the Hillsborough victims as they were British and innocent of blame and not Hysel where most of them were Italians and innocent and everyone tries to pretend that never happened.

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Not true to say that Hysel was brushed under the carpet. As well as the ban of English clubs (and Liverpool got an extra year), fourteen Liverpool fans were convicted of manslaughter and sentenced to prison terms.

Admittedly that''s just the tip of the iceberg, in terms of identifying those culpable. But it''s still better than we''ve managed in terms of identifying those culpable for Hillsborough.

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The Hillsborough disaster was a disaster waiting to happen - and something was learned from it.   Hysel too was a wake up call to everyone that something had to change.   Innocent people dying at a football match due to the effects of the crowd.    Large amounts of people in one place are always a risk - its been seen in countless situations over the years, not least Bradford and Ibrox and other places all over the world.   

People always want someone to blame - but in most situations it is a mixture of events that lead to the problems.   Crowd safety is paramount at large sporting events and those in charge have the responsibility to make sure that things go smoothly.   The pressure of the fans at Hillsborough was considered dangerous to crowd safety outside the ground - officers reported people suffering in the crush outside so the decision was made  to release that pressure by opening the gates - a fateful decision as it just transferred the crush to somewhere else.  

The after effects of covering up were a scandal - but the actual events themselves at the time were as a result of the police trying to manage the crowd in the best way they thought possible.   The conflict between the families and the police cover up since are well documented, but if you took the actual events that happened - tragic though they were - it was a case of too many fans pushing to get in a football stadium and the police trying to relieve the pressure.   Simply trying to do the best they could.  

Hysel was a scandal too for different reasons and Liverpool fans have to live with that as well as Hillsborough.   It wasn''t Liverpool families who lost people at Hysel - but there were still people that died -and through the irresponsibility of the Liverpool fans.  The actual events that occurred at both these disasters appear - I say appear - to show that at one the Liverpool fans caused deaths by irresponsible charging at Hysel - at the other police were concerned for crowd safety and made a decision in good faith to try and relieve the pressure of the crowd. 

It was a wrong decision of course - but it is the cover up that has caused the conflict, not the events themselves.  The actual events were simple attempts at crowd management - flawed and dangerous, but not on the level of Hysel - which was directly caused by fans charging other fans with a view to cause trouble.   

This will probably be seen as some as a controversial post by some, but while I have every sympathy for anyone who loses anybody in any circumstances, the truth often gets lost in the emotional wrangle of the aftermath.    Personal responsibility is something that people don''t like to recognise these days - and the police were as culpable as anyone for that after Hillsborough,  but each and every fan that pushed to get into Hillsborough and each and every fan that charged at Hysel - has SOME responsibilty for the things that happened.    People always want someone else to blame - I guess its human nature - but usually there is some self-responsibility that has been lacking in the causes of  crowd disasters.   

No-one wants people to die at a football match so the best thing that people can do is remember their own responsibility when attending a large event where there are lots of people.  That way, the disasters at Hysel and Hillsborough could have been avoided.

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