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Ray

New Manager & New Captain

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I find it interesting how many people on here are saying that NA has instilled a new belief within the team, however I believe his best decision has been to make RM captain, who has also played a massive role in the improved team spirit.

I firmly belive CH''s biggest mistake was to make SB Captain, which perhaps says a great deal about his ability to understand what drives people and why he couldn''t get from the players what NA is. Anybody watching RM today would have seen a player with massive desire and the ability to communicate with the rest of the team in a way SB didn''t.

Now, that''s not to say I would have played RM at CB all season, or even played him in every game, but had he been captain I think we would have seen some better performances and more points, even under CH..

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It was interesting watching Gerrard during the warm up, really focused, went round all the Liverpool players having a word with them, good captaincy.

People,say a captain isn''t so important these days, but it is, you get a leader in that role and it can transform the team.

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Jenkins,

A point well made and pre-season most of the squad expected RM to announced as Captain, there was a great deal of, shall we say surprise, amongst the players he was not.

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I agree Ray.  It was the Hughton way to get his player in as captain - he was trying to build a new side with a different approach to previously.  But I have always wanted to see Martin as a central defender regularly and as captain.  It just seemed to make so much sense after his appearances at centre half under Lambert and his good manner and communication skills.    Some good come out of the era that has just passed - even if it has cleared the way for something that can be longer lasting. A team with Ruddy and Martin as the central core.  Adams has played it right on this one - and it should stand us in good stead next season as well as the remainder of this one.

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LDC,

Most will know I am a big fan of RM, why, because how many other players do we have who can play in two differnt positions in the back four, well enough to be selected to do both by PL, NA and Gordon Strachan and at the same time have the full respect of the rest of the squad, as a player and a leader.

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Although I do think you''re correct that you do need leaders on the pitch, lets not forget Bassong had a great first season with us. We were solid, he looked like we knew what we were doing at the back, more than we had done for a long time and every time he didn''t play, we seemed to leak goals. Like Holt he was players of the season and rightly so, he was our rock. This season...well we all know about whats happened with him this season; he looks to relaxed, making mistakes, not communicating (and when he does its telling people to shut up) and not positioning himself well enough.

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Mrs,

I agree but he was not captain and should never have been made captain, maybe that is what contributed to his ''demise''.

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Some players will respond positively to the responsibility, with others it can have a negative impact on their game. Just depends on the personality.

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[quote user="Ray"]Mrs,

I agree but he was not captain and should never have been made captain, maybe that is what contributed to his ''demise''.[/quote]

Yeah I think that is part of it as well, he seemed to get a bit to big for his boots. I thought he would have stepped up to the plate, but instead went the other way completely. Tbh, at the time I though him and Russel Martin s club captain was a nice decision, but it a probably another reason why we haven''t done as well this season

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Mrs,

i think you will find the Club Captain role was announced to placate the ''surpirise'' that was voiced amongst the squad as an after thought to cover the initial c*ck up.

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While Bassong wouldn''t have been my choice for captain I think perhaps the difficulty in giving it to Martin might have been that Hughton didn''t really know if he saw him as a first choice in his team.

 

Bassong was coming off the back of a great season (POTS) and going into this campaign you felt he''d be in the team.

 

Since we''ve been in the Prem Martin hasn''t really been able to hold down a position solidly. Whittaker did well at right-back last season and looked like he was a bit ahead in Hughton''s thinking when this one started.

 

It''s probably not ideal to make someone captain if you don''t think he''s in your best 11.

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"club" captain was one of the biggest tin pot things we have ever done. Really a stupid and pointless move set to appease rather than actually give him a role.Glad to see RM finally wearing the captains armband!

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I still can''t understand why so many people seem to think Bassong had a great first season with us or that we looked solid in defence last year.Bassong was hit and miss- brilliant then awful from one minute to the next, I''d take an average CB who stays that way consistently (Turner) over any kind of inconsistency in a defender no matter how good some things he does are.With Bassong in the team I was never confident of the defence because I never knew if he would fall over or make a great tackle. That in itself is the opposite of a solid looking defence.Martin is an obvious captain to me due to the way he acts as a professional. The role of captain is not about being the star player or the chief organiser, it is about being the respected calm head and setting the tone for the team. Ruddy would seem to qualify on those grounds and maybe Howson or Olsson but not many others at the club as far as I can see.

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Bassong was excellent in his first season with us, there is surely no doubt about that, but has been very very inconsistent this season. Based on the previous season, then many at that time would not have had a problem with Bassong being named captain, hindsight and all that.....its just now a further stick to beat our previous manager with.

We have had a Club Captain before at the club, I know that for sure but cant remember when, so its not something CH just invented or contrived, other clubs also do similar. But probably a better way to do it is to name a Vice Captain, although I am not keen on that either.

I agree Martin is an excellent choice for Captain, he really is a "Mr Norwich City" but also agree that, again at the end of last season looking forward to this, he was probably not a guaranteed starter, so can understand why he wasnt named captain at the start of this.

Of course the new Manager would want his own man, just like his predecessor did, nothing wrong with that at all and to be expected.

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[quote user="Dubai Mark"]

Bassong was excellent in his first season with us, there is surely no doubt about that, but has been very very inconsistent this season. Based on the previous season, then many at that time would not have had a problem with Bassong being named captain, hindsight and all that.....its just now a further stick to beat our previous manager with.

We have had a Club Captain before at the club, I know that for sure but cant remember when, so its not something CH just invented or contrived, other clubs also do similar. But probably a better way to do it is to name a Vice Captain, although I am not keen on that either.

I agree Martin is an excellent choice for Captain, he really is a "Mr Norwich City" but also agree that, again at the end of last season looking forward to this, he was probably not a guaranteed starter, so can understand why he wasnt named captain at the start of this.

Of course the new Manager would want his own man, just like his predecessor did, nothing wrong with that at all and to be expected.

[/quote]Nope- still don''t think he was excellent in his first season. Better than what came before maybe but not excellent. I''m pretty sure if anyone can be bothered to trawl back through posts to a relevant date I said the same thing at the time. Maybe I am misremembering though?

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Bassong was undoubtedly excellent first season. I remember remarking how he was an absolute steal at double the price we paid for his services, and couldn''t understand the popular perception of him being being error prone at other clubs. Lets just say my first impressions from that first season were very wrong generally, in the context of what''s followed and his ''previous''. RM is undoubtedly captain material, as is Ruddy.

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I wonder whether RM was not made full captain as CH expected Whittaker to start more games at RB - which meant he would not be on the pitch much?

 

RM has again shown he is the clubs best RB and now the best captain,  making the SB choice as team captain an error as it also brought our the worst in seb - he does not have the right leadership qualities and his "shhh" motion to RvW at the swansea defeat highlighted it perfectly - the wrong response sending the wrong message to the team (acceptance of errors is OK - not lets get back at them response)

 

However I do think reports of Sebs demise have been hugely overstated - he has not met last seasons highs but nor has he been as bad as made out;   the back 4 have generally performed well (making this years random chopping and changing bizarre to say the least) but the lack of goals have meant ALL errors leading to a goal have become crucial and minutely criticised. 

 

While RvW has had the same scrutiny he alone has borne the brunt for much more significant problems from the very uncriticised and much more underperforming midfield unit which has provided so little defensive sheild and even less creative opportunity (400 aimless crosses does not equal creaitivity) for RvW and the equally poor hooper.

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I remember seeing a quote from RM last season whereby he stated that his preferred position is now CB. In a rather bullish statement, he said something along the lines of ''I might have to consider stating that I am considered at CB or not at all'', which surprised me at the time as not his usual character. I think making both RM and SB half captain each was a truly awful decision at the time and I still think its awful now. Not entirely sure why Bassong is out in the cold, but interesting to me was that RM straight away moves inside to play CB. Very telling

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[quote user="The Great Mass Debater"]  interesting to me was that RM straight away moves inside to play CB. Very telling[/quote]

 

Agreed - and while I think he is a better  captain I do think that Yobo, Turner, Bennett and Seb are all better at CB than Russ.   He might prefer playing there but he is caught out too often in that position for my liking.

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Zipper,

Mike Brearley was not a top flight batsman, but look at what he achieved and got from his team. Now I accept during a five day test match the role of captain is probably more pivotal than in a ninety minute football match but the captain can still certainly make a difference, especially when going 2 - 0 down inside 12 minutes against the Champions elect.

I think if we continue with him at CB he will only improve and it is a tribute to his abilities and attitude that he can switch reasonably easily.

One thing I saw on Sunday was direction from him, continually giving instructions to the rest of the team, I''m afraid to say I never saw that with Seb, other than to sssh RvW. Which leads me back to my original point, perhaps we lacked the leadership on the pitch to effectively ensure we played to the tactics CH wanted us to play to? If that is the case then who knows how many more points we may have now, although the responsibility for this still lays at CH''s door, afterall he appointed him.

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Ray - I agree that RM has everything to be a great captain (and that Seb was the wrong choice by CH - my first line was just an attempt at some justification for the wrong choice) - no reason Martin can not (or indeed could not have) have that influence from right back though.

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Zipper,

Yes possibly, not so easy but can still be done, which he couldn''t do of course when he was at RB and Seb was at CB.

Most captains play a form of central role, not all but most.

I think RM plays more like Bobby Moore (not saying he is a Bobby Moore of course) insomuch he reads the game well and makes sure he is in the right place at the right time. Sometimes the best performances come from players who after the game you think, was X playing?

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