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Tetteys Jig

Is the Fulham game such a forgone conclusion?

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I know we have an utterly dreadful record versus them but how much of that is a load of rubbish? For instance, the 6-0 day, are there any surviving members of either team? I know this seasons game is still pretty fresh, as indeed is that 5-2 (or was it 1) from last season.

Looking at it objectively, with the teams looked at as "team a" and "team b", Fulham are in even worse form than us! They might even be cut adrift by then and have almost given in? Who knows? Are they better than the Stoke side we beat 1-0 away or the WBA side we beat 2-0 away or even the West Ham side we should have demolished away?

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Of course it''s not. There''s no logical reason for it but I don''t expect anything from it because of past experiences. I had posters jumping all over me about this earlier in the season and yet the scenario panned out the way I expected. Just like I am more confident when we go to WBA than I am when we go to Villa. No logical reasoning but still it turned out that way. I''m more confident when Man Utd come to call than I am when it''s Liverpool. No logical reason just through experience.

 

 

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It''s a funny one really, it''s a bit like England and penalties. How many of the guys we''d have taking this time have missed vital international spot kicks before? Maybe Gerrard? that''s about it yet still we know the past will affect them.

Perhaps it''s traditional styles of play, for years there''s been talk of ''the Norwich way'' or ''Swansealona'' perhaps it''s like rock paper scissors but Norwich/Swansea/Villa and it''s hard for teams to get out of their historical tactic mentalities even with new players. Stoke tried to get away from their turgid ugly game and nearly went down last year until they brought it back versus us for a vital win.

Who are Fulhams bogey team and what makes them tick?

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Why are Arsenal always rubbish at Stoke? Why do Man Utd always find it difficult here? I don''t believe there''s any logical explaination.

 

 

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Agree with NN and I do wonder where this sort of thing comes from. I don''t believe it''s to do with form, I believe it is mentality. Considering Man Utd''s stature and honours over the last 20 years, you''d think it crazy to believe we''re more likely to get something out of them than Liverpool, though like NN said, past experience shows this as the case (we''ve not beaten Liverpool since 1994 but always seem to give Man Utd a good game)

We can go to Fulham and get something of course, because they are dire (their league position shows it) but I''m not sure we know how to do it (Not that I am claiming to know either!!)

This sort of thing can carry over despite there being no members of the teams from that 6-0 demolition. Besides, you''re forgetting that in recent times, we have lost 5-0 and 3-0 there, both good thrashings, and those members of the team are still very much here.

It frustrates me, there''s something about Norwich I can''t put my finger on. We so often can''t beat certain sides, and also, whenever a team hasn''t won in about 15 games, lo and behold, we''ll be the ones they get that elusive win against. Like I said, this sort of thing happens despite the squad we have, and as far as I can remember has always been a sort of Norwich thing to happen in my 20 years of support.

But where does this come from? The one constant is the fans, so is it us? Who knows. This has always interested me in football though.

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As both of you are implying, I''m sure psychology plays a part. People look for patterns and for ''rhyme & reason''. If you suddenly become aware of a pattern it is bound to affect you. That is manifest in Nutty''s comment above; his gut feeling is based on a pattern that is emerging rather than cold logic. It must surely affect the players too. But patterns are made to be broken and we will beat Fulham and Villa one day (when the correct stars are in alignment)

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I was saying the same thing during the Villa game. Was it this seasons home game where they hadn''t had a clean sheet in about 20 years and then along comes us and, Huzzah, clean sheet.Then the weekends game and they hadn''t scored for 5 hours or whatever it was and hey presto, rattle in 4!Why do we have this remarkable talent for ending teams bad runs?

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Of course it is , i can remember Ricardo telling us earlier this season we cannot expect to beat Fulham as they are a bogey side and you dont beat bogey sides .

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Yes..Fulham, Villa and Livrpool have a hex on us..I would never expect more than a point or two per season from the possible eighteen on offer. Only talking recent history obviously. .I know we have beaten all in the past, but if anyone seriously expects us to pick up three points at Fulham I would get your bet on now as I am sure the odds would be half decent.

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The trick is to remember the positive with the negative. Too many focus on negatives even in this subject. 2005 relegated with a shambolic goal difference after a shambolic season yet we beat Manchester United 2-0. First season back only a last minute Giggs goal robbed us. Last season we beat them again. This season only a fluke cost us. And plenty more times when we played them regularly before the PL. And what about the cups? 1967 when we were a poor second division team we beat them at Old Trafford when they went on to win the league and then European Cup. 1975 League Cup semi-final when the ball stuck in the mud and Macdougal scored and we went on to win over 2 legs.1959 cup run....

 

Man Utd must hate playing us. Why?

 

 

 

 

 

 

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It''s very true, some teams like Fulham we just never seem to do well against.

 

Having said that, when we played them under Lambert he experiemented with 3-5-2 which left acres of space for Duff down our left and we duly conceded 2 goals from that area.  Lambert then changed the formation and second half we were much better but could only score one (a Wilbraham goal thanks to a massive deflection AFAIR).  Then last year under Hughton it was our season opener and we left Dembele with free run of the midfield, as a result of which it looked like they could score at any point and it could easily have been worse than 5.  With hindsight that prompted us to make several signings and was probably key to our eventual survival, if you want to look at it positively.

 

& these sorts of runs don''t last forever.  I remember we never used to do well at Maine Road but eventually we won. and of course we won again at their place last season.

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You will see I mentioned Swansea.

As for Arsenal versus Stoke. Arsenal have a clear philosophy to pitter patter around teams, stoke barge past teams and therefore often beat Arsenal, who haven''t always got the players to match Stokes physical game.

I would say our team has a slight lack of pace to it usually, hence we often lose against Villas counter attacks.

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[quote user="Jimmy Smith"]You will see I mentioned Swansea.

As for Arsenal versus Stoke. Arsenal have a clear philosophy to pitter patter around teams, stoke barge past teams and therefore often beat Arsenal, who haven''t always got the players to match Stokes physical game.

I would say our team has a slight lack of pace to it usually, hence we often lose against Villas counter attacks.[/quote]That would be a fair point if it was based on a snapshot, one game situation, Jimmy.But, surely these sort of bogey teams records build up over many years, transcending, players, managers, coaches and styles. e Arsenal are attractive to watch now, but pre Wenger it was like watching paint dry. Ditto for Villa pre Lambert. And how many styles and Managers have Fulham had during our dismal run against them.What NN and others have said on here is quite right...you do get into a mindset about playing against any particular team. But it can become a self-fulfilling prophesy if you are not careful.  We have had a pretty catastrophic record against Man Citeh ove many years, and on the fateful ''lets be avin you '' night, despite going 2 up against them, you always got the impression that the crowd and players all believed that it would go t!ts up in the end !

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Possible bogey teams for those rotters!

 

Fulham head-to-head record in Premiership & cups since 2000 (not including ''top 6'' teams):

v Hull   W 1 D 0 L 4   (won 20%, lost 80%)

v West Ham    W 5 D 6 L 11    (won 23%, lost 50%)

v Blackburn W 6 D 5 L 11    (won 27%, lost 50%)

v Everton   W 10 D 7 L 16    (won 30%, lost 48%)

v Villa W 5 D 11 L 9    (won 20%, lost 36%)

 

Since 1910, all competitions:

v Chelsea    W 9 D 25 L 46   (won 9%, lost 46%)

 

 

But not quite ''in the same league'' as Fulham''s record against us since 1987, all leagues & cups...

v City    W 11 D 4 L 0    (won 73%, lost 0%)

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[quote user="GenerationA47"]

 

But not quite ''in the same league'' as Fulham''s record against us since 1987, all leagues & cups...

v City    W 11 D 4 L 0    (won 73%, lost 0%)

[/quote]Bl**dy hell, A47. Is it really that bad ??!!The only thing you can say is that we''ve got to break the duck some time.

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[quote user="Reggie Strayshun"][quote user="GenerationA47"]

 

But not quite ''in the same league'' as Fulham''s record against us since 1987, all leagues & cups...

v City    W 11 D 4 L 0    (won 73%, lost 0%)

[/quote]Bl**dy hell, A47. Is it really that bad ??!!The only thing you can say is that we''ve got to break the duck some time.[/quote]

We did rather well against them in the old League Division 2 matches - hopefully not an omen!W10  D4  L5

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[quote user="Reggie Strayshun"][quote user="GenerationA47"]

 

But not quite ''in the same league'' as Fulham''s record against us since 1987, all leagues & cups...

v City    W 11 D 4 L 0    (won 73%, lost 0%)

[/quote]Bl**dy hell, A47. Is it really that bad ??!!The only thing you can say is that we''ve got to break the duck some time.[/quote]

We did rather well against them in the old League Division 2 matches - hopefully not an omen!W10  D4  L5

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So, we will win this one then......with the three points on Saturday and these 3 points survival is looking very likely!

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yep according to 11v11 website, Reggie (why do I feel like a character in The Fall & Rise...?) 

 

Mind you we didn''t actually play them between 1987 and 1999! I was just being dramatic, while remaining truthful

 

The all-time tally for Fulham v us is:

W 20 D 12 L 11    (won 47%, lost 26%)

 

 

Our first clash was on 1st Feb 1908...

 

we lost.

 

 

In fact we didn''t beat them until our 11th meeting.

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- Hoots loves us giving points away to teams that aren''t in form and near us in the table.

- Also it''s Fulham.

Most probably a foregon conclusion.

I hate Fulham.

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It''s Fulham. They''re a hoodoo. We''ll lose.The only time I can remember us beating them in '' recent '' years was the 1-0 at Craven Cottage in 1985/86 when Kevin Drinkell scored. Even then they battered us and we got away with daylight robbery that day.I think we''ve got more chance or registering a win in the matches coming up against  the '' Big  4 '' than we have against Fulham.

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[quote user="......and Smith must score."]It''s Fulham. They''re a hoodoo. We''ll lose.The only time I can remember us beating them in '' recent '' years was the 1-0 at Craven Cottage in 1985/86 when Kevin Drinkell scored. Even then they battered us and we got away with daylight robbery that day.I think we''ve got more chance or registering a win in the matches coming up against  the '' Big  4 '' than we have against Fulham.[/quote]Unfortunately you''re right.It still doesn''t follow any actual logic though.

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They will be our bogey team until they aren''t so I give us no points this season again.However all things come to an end eventually and every defeat is a game closer to a victory.

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[quote user="GenerationA47"]

yep according to 11v11 website, Reggie (why do I feel like a character in The Fall & Rise...?) 

 

[/quote]I didn''t get where I am today by not supporting Norwich....As a matter of interest A47, and more pertinently, as they are next up, what does this site say about our record v Stoke City ? My impression is that it''s mediocre at best.

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ricardo wrote the following post at 05/03/2014 7:45 PM:

They will be our bogey team until they aren''t so I give us no points this season again.

However all things come to an end eventually and every defeat is a game closer to a victory.

A glimmer of light from Ricardo. Forget bogey, it''s nonsence, I predict that Fulham away will be one of our few away wins this season, it will pretty much secure our Premier League status and assure their relegation. Wouldn''t miss it for the world. A nice walk along the river as well.

Will be a great day!

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Right you are, CJ

 

Our record v Stoke, all competitions:

Premiership (first game 2011)   W 2 D 1 L 2 (won 40%, lost 40%)

Since 1987 (first game 1995)   W 7 D 6 L 8 (won 33%, lost 38%)

All-time (first game 1960)    W 17 D 15 L 19 (won 33%, lost 37%)

 

 

So a fairly well-matched record, with more draws than we would statistically expect (albeit our small sample size makes all this analysis insignificant anyway - that''s a given!). There was a brief bad run (D1, L3) against them extended over five recent years (2007-2012) which may well be the cause of your poor impression.

 

 

For comparison, our overall historic performance to date against all teams in all competitions is bang on average:

W 1593 D 1113 L 1556 (won 37.4%, lost 36.5%)

 

 

Well, have a good day at the office, City

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