RVW.. is it time to admit we've got it wrong?

[Yorkshire Canary 118]

Lets be clear this is all down to Hughton. He buys RVW and Hooper both need to play with a target man partner, why buy both when we only play 1 up and neither are suited to that role. Then he has Becchio who arguably could play that role and he never gets a game. The guy is clueless and things will not change until he goes. The Board will not trust him to spend any more cash

[Simple Jack 0]

Many people were carried along by the size of his price ticket and all that that promised. He has flopped completely. Those believers must face facts, no matter how much all those letters on your shirt cost - Ricky Can''t Cut It!

And you''re right Ginger, he did play well today. No goals (again), no assists (again), complete lack of positional sense (again), easily bullied off the ball (every time he got it) embarrassing injury simulation (again). So good even Clueless Chris could see we has no cutting edge with him on the field and he was substituted (again). He wasn''t replaced because he had tirelessly run himself in to the ground. He was hoiked off because he was (rap (again).

It is my honest belief that the other players only pass to him as a last resort because you are effectively surrendering possession.

[CDMullins 436]

[quote user="Simple Jack"]Many people were carried along by the size of his price ticket and all that that promised. He has flopped completely. Those believers must face facts, no matter how much all those letters on your shirt cost - Ricky Can''t Cut It!

And you''re right Ginger, he did play well today. No goals (again), no assists (again), complete lack of positional sense (again), easily bullied off the ball (every time he got it) embarrassing injury simulation (again). So good even Clueless Chris could see we has no cutting edge with him on the field and he was substituted (again). He wasn''t replaced because he had tirelessly run himself in to the ground. He was hoiked off because he was (rap (again).

It is my honest belief that the other players only pass to him as a last resort because you are effectively surrendering possession.[/quote]Blind or Stupid?

[Simple Jack 0]

Objective (get someone to tell you what that means)

[Mr Brownstone 0]

Strange how we all see things differently isn''t it.

I, and everyone around me in the Barclay, thought he did a decent job up against a very physical side with very limited support and service.

You can say that Ricky, Hooper, Elmander, Becchio, Holt, Morison, Jackson, Kamara etc aren''t up to it all you like, but the fact is they''ve all scored goals regularly (or with a degree of regularity in a couple of cases) until they started playing for Hughton.

Coincidence? For me, no.

I can''t imagine why any striker in their right mind would want to come here at present, career suicide.

[Nexus_Canary 1,016]

OP go die in a hole.RvW worked really hard today and had a good game. Its not his fault our current system does not live up to his strengths. He needs time and the chances to score. I really think the OP in this post is one of the most depressing ive read in awhile.

[Nexus_Canary 1,016]

[quote user="Simple Jack"]Many people were carried along by the size of his price ticket and all that that promised. He has flopped completely. Those believers must face facts, no matter how much all those letters on your shirt cost - Ricky Can''t Cut It!

And you''re right Ginger, he did play well today. No goals (again), no assists (again), complete lack of positional sense (again), easily bullied off the ball (every time he got it) embarrassing injury simulation (again). So good even Clueless Chris could see we has no cutting edge with him on the field and he was substituted (again). He wasn''t replaced because he had tirelessly run himself in to the ground. He was hoiked off because he was (rap (again).

It is my honest belief that the other players only pass to him as a last resort because you are effectively surrendering possession.[/quote]Your an Ipswich fan, why are you even posting here ?

[Simple Jack 0]

Nexus - I go games, watch the players in the flesh. My view is "informed". As a stream watching plastic yours is not.

[Yellowbeagle 0]

I assumed when we bought Hooper and RVW that our manager had a idea up his sleeve to play to their strengths not their weaknesses. I hoped at the end of last season that our manger was sorting out the defence and that this season he would attempt to develop the attacking side of our game. The criticism on the players is harsh I''ve yet to see a striker under Hughton look decent and Both of these players give it their best, but I''m not in the least surprised after watching what we try and do as a team that they look devoid of confidence.

I would have thought any one was mental if they said we bought RVW and were going to ask him to play in the same way we asked Holt to last season.

[Mason 47 1,379]

RvW''s talent is finishing. That is fact.

I see him as comparable to a high-level Earnshaw, a poacher. Whilst he CAN do a job as a complete centre forward, playing him this way can and will expose how lacking he is in other areas and blunt his attacking instinct.

Maybe we just aren''t in a position to have a 10-man team with a dedicated goalscorer. Either way IMO he''s worth persevering with.

[unique 435]

RVW had a good game?

He now averages one shot on target every 254 minutes on the pitch.

Read that stat again.....digest......then take out your handkerchief and dry your eyes........

[Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB 1,023]

I just do not think we play to his strenghths, he likes to play off the shoulder of the last defender, and we should be looking to play balls on the deck, I think Chris Hughton has made life difficult for RvW by not playing to his srenghths which is a strange thing to do given the transfer outlay.......

[Guest]

Stats mean nothing without context though. How many good opportunities has he had with which to get those shots on targets? I can think of very, very few opportunities he has wasted, put it that way.

Playing up front alone is a thankless task, and I have actually seen a major improvement in the last few games he''s played. Previously he was getting brushed off the ball and looked completely out of his depth, but there''s no question he is starting to adapt to the roll more.

I''m certainly not going to write him off after 3/4 of a season anyway.

[Aggy 755]

The argument that these players scored for fun elsewhere and so the system must be to blame doesn''t really wash with me.

You''re telling me that our forward players - most of whom have played for a number of different clubs and even more managers - have never played in a 451/433 system where they''re the main threat through the middle? You''re telling me they''ve never played for a so called defence minded manager?

I would imagine they probably have played in similar systems with similar tactics as are being used here. The difference is that when most of them have been scoring goals elsewhere, it has been at a significantly lower standard than the prem. For me, Hooper was always going to be a decent back up 5-10 goal man, nothing more. Unfortunately, I haven''t really seen anything from RVW which makes me think he''ll live up to the expectations I had of him. Even when I was supporting him and telling people to leave off him for a bit, it was more in hope that he would come good rather than seeing too much to convince me he would come good.

[Wiz 0]

[quote user="Nexus_Canary"]OP go die in a hole.

RvW worked really hard today and had a good game. Its not his fault our current system does not live up to his strengths. He needs time and the chances to score. I really think the OP in this post is one of the most depressing ive read in awhile.
[/quote]

 

Sorry to point this out Mr Nexus but what an awful thing to say to anyone.

[Simple Jack 0]

It still never ceases to amaze me when people drone on about not playing to Wolf''s "strengths". Putting aside YouTube clips (remember the Fozzy Flick?) I''d just like to know what these strengths are. Those of us who go to games could catalogue a depressingly long list of weaknesses. But strengths???

[Tony Cottee Woz Ere . . . 0]

No striker will ever flourish under Chris Hughton. Hooper, RVW, Holt, Becchio. All these players were on fire and scoring for fun until Hughton and his coaching staff got a hold of them. Coincidence? To be honest i said at the start of the season RVW and his agent probably didn''t really do their research when they joined us. I hope RVW is still here next season, playing premier league football, alongside Hooper, with Hughton long gone. I honestly believe with a decent manager and coaching staff in charge of them, they could be a profilic duo.

[Guest]

I think it''s easier to blame everything on the manager, than accept we are at a level where all four strikers you have mentioned are average at the very best.

I understand people criticise Hughton for being overly negative. But we started with Hoolahan, Redmond, Snodgrass and RvW today.

The major thing lacking is quality. We had numerous opportunities where we got in behind the defence today, and not one resulted in a decent opportunity. This is not down to negative tactics.

[Simple Jack 0]

Wolf, Hooper and Becchio were all "scoring for fun" in Mickey Mouse leagues. Holt was a spent force and looking for a way out.

[GJP 79]

As I think has basically already been said in this thread, neither RVW nor Hooper are particularly suited to playing upfront on their own. Neither are that well equipped to do it in this team and under this manager.

 

Hughton has said in the past about strikers doing a "good job for the team" but whatever happened to what people used to say about good strikers being a bit selfish?

 

If either of them play upfront on their own they are expected to link the play up and provide the goal scoring threat. Few players can do that successfully at this level.

 

Hooper''s had games this season upfront on his own when he has been utterly anonymous - yet has attracted less criticism for his performance than RVW would. But that''s much like the defensive situation. Everything Bassong does is wrong and everything Yobo does is superb. RVW can do no right and Hooper can do no wrong - because people have made up their minds regardless off what happens in the match.

 

Had it have been Hooper putting in that performance today a lot of people criticising RVW would certainly be on here saying about how hard he worked, great link up play etc etc.

 

But it''s the same problem as what we had last season. We don''t carry enough of a penalty box threat. Holt was always at his best getting in the box and getting on the end of things. Getting the ball over the line one way or another. Whether he was in decline or not the way Hughton had him play last season greatly reduced the threat he carried. And it''s carried into this season, we don''t get the bodies in the box, we don''t get the ball in quickly enough and we don''t get the quality.

 

Which leads me on to the wingers. I like Redmond and Snoddy but we''ve been playing the inverted thing all season and everyone knows it. Teams can read it far too easily and it''s generally harder for attackers to get on the end of the ball coming in. Also, when you''re playing inverted wingers then it gives you an opportunity to get your fullbacks overlapping - but that''s only worthwhile if they have a decent end product. Martin got forward a few times today but how many decent crosses did he put in? Probably only one.

 

As I said last season, I was worried Hughton''s emphasis on tightening up the defence had gone too far and killed us too much as an attacking force and about a year later I haven''t seen anything to change my mind or to suggest he can start to find a nice balance between the two.

[Felixfan 53]

R.V.W and Hooper totally out of their depth in the P.L. We needed someone who could play at this level but we gambled and failed. If we stay up it will be in spite of these two misfits. I even doubt if they could cut it in the Championship.

[GJP 79]

[quote user="Felixfan"]R.V.W and Hooper totally out of their depth in the P.L. We needed someone who could play at this level but we gambled and failed. If we stay up it will be in spite of these two misfits. I even doubt if they could cut it in the Championship.[/quote]

Last time Hooper played in the Championship he scored 19 in 35 and got his move to Celtic.

[Holtcantshoot 0]

[quote user="CDMullins"][quote user="Simple Jack"]Many people were carried along by the size of his price ticket and all that that promised. He has flopped completely. Those believers must face facts, no matter how much all those letters on your shirt cost - Ricky Can''t Cut It!

And you''re right Ginger, he did play well today. No goals (again), no assists (again), complete lack of positional sense (again), easily bullied off the ball (every time he got it) embarrassing injury simulation (again). So good even Clueless Chris could see we has no cutting edge with him on the field and he was substituted (again). He wasn''t replaced because he had tirelessly run himself in to the ground. He was hoiked off because he was (rap (again).

It is my honest belief that the other players only pass to him as a last resort because you are effectively surrendering possession.[/quote]Blind or Stupid?[/quote]I think RVW is just a bit stupid unfortunately. Watching the highlights on Sky earlier I think the commentator summed up RVW at the moment perfectly when he pointed out from our first attack of the 2nd half that it was great play by Norwich down the right and a good ball between the centre backs by Snodgrass "but Wolfswinkel just stood motionless". His movement right now looks like a man who doesn''t really want to take on the responsibility of a goal scorer and have to shoot. He made one run to the near post all game (getting a good header across goal) every other time he either pulled back out of the area or stood at the back post behind the centre back where he must have known he would never get the ball. I have to be honest his movement in front of goal is actually so poor it makes me angry having to watch him. I''ll happily admit he tries hard and may come good in the future but for anyone who wants to argue with my statement please just assume my response will be to point out that he''s got a pathetic 1 goal and 1 assist in 21 games this year. That''s 6 fewer goals than Hooper and even 2 less than our holding midfielder Bradley Johnson who can''t shoot to save his life.

[Nexus_Canary 1,016]

[quote user="Simple Jack"]Nexus - I go games, watch the players in the flesh. My view is "informed". As a stream watching plastic yours is not.[/quote]Well thats a bleeding good stream Im watching, infact my season ticket view is almost like the real thing. Dunno why I keep traveling to Norwich every week to watch the live stream though.I even get interaction with other fans, a program and shitty pie to boot.

[Nexus_Canary 1,016]

People saying our strikers are second rate are morons to be fair, sorry guys thats how it is.You think RvP, Rooney, Mesi, C.Ronaldo or Rat boy would be in double figures playing for us ? If you think Yes then you might as well start following rugby cos you dont understand football.

[drurys testamonials V 15 0]

Has RVW suddenly become a poor player or is it more to do with our tactics and the other players around him not working out? Maybe he''s not cut out to play NCFC style football as we play it at the moment.

[A Load of Squit 5,162]

I don''t think that RVW or Hooper a re the type of people who will look at this season and brood about it, they''ll be looking at how they can make themselves better players for next season, whether it''s a Bradley Johnson style boot camp or one on one sessions with a trusted source (RVW''s future father in law maybe) they won''t rest on their laurels over the summer. This season could be the best thing that happened to the two of them.I know one thing for sure and that''s I don''t want us to change our striking options completely which is what we did this season. 

[Zachariah Lovespoon 0]

Should we have said the same to Iwan after his first season. Sometimes it takes a good while for players to adjust and he''s not really played an awful lot of football over the course of the season. Needs to bulk up a bit pre season and will be a better player next IMO.

[Yellow Wal 314]

Tony Cottee Woz Ere . . . wrote the following post at 08/03/2014 9:19 PM:

No striker will ever flourish under Chris Hughton. Hooper, RVW, Holt,

Becchio. All these players were on fire and scoring for fun until

Hughton and his coaching staff got a hold of them. Coincidence? To be

honest i said at the start of the season RVW and his agent probably

didn''t really do their research when they joined us. I hope RVW is still

here next season, playing premier league football, alongside Hooper,

with Hughton long gone. I honestly believe with a decent manager and

coaching staff in charge of them, they could be a profilic duo.Exactly this.I.S. wrote the following post at 08/03/2014 9:26 PM:I think it''s easier to blame everything on the manager, than accept we

are at a level where all four strikers you have mentioned are average at

the very best.

I understand people criticise Hughton for being overly negative. But we started with Hoolahan, Redmond, Snodgrass and RvW today.

The major thing lacking is quality. We had numerous opportunities

where we got in behind the defence today, and not one resulted in a

decent opportunity. This is not down to negative tactics.

Of course it is down to negative tactics. Once more Snodgrass was on the right and Redmond was on the left ........ inverted wingers. This seriously limits the space for attacking players to work in and denies opportunities. It hasn''t worked all season and will not work.

GJP wrote the following post at 08/03/2014 10:05 PM:

...................... Which leads me on to the wingers. I like Redmond and Snoddy but we''ve

been playing the inverted thing all season and everyone knows it. Teams

can read it far too easily and it''s generally harder for attackers to

get on the end of the ball coming in. Also, when you''re playing inverted

wingers then it gives you an opportunity to get your fullbacks

overlapping - but that''s only worthwhile if they have a decent end

product. Martin got forward a few times today but how many decent

crosses did he put in? Probably only one.Yes inverted wingers give the opportunity for full backs to overlap ........ but they will then be playing balls into a very crowded area as the inverted wingers have dragged the opposition full backs into the box. Opportunities to play the ball wide from midfield is less possible and by the time it gets there to an overlapping full back defensive and orthodox midfield players will either be in the box or covering the area. And then we see a meaningless inverted cross to the heart of the opposition defence or a cross to a very crowded area. What hope have those forwards really got?

Felixfan wrote the following post at 08/03/2014 11:03 PM:

R.V.W and Hooper totally out of their depth in the P.L. We needed

someone who could play at this level but we gambled and failed. If we

stay up it will be in spite of these two misfits. I even doubt if they

could cut it in the Championship.

How about paying three times as much for a forward, as Spurs did for Soldado, and then play him in a system with inverted wingers, as AVB did, and then see if he flourishes? Soldado''s confidence and game has been seriously affected by the system he played in. He will not be worth anywhere near as much in the transfer market and will need time to get back to what he had previously acchieved. Neither Soldado or RvW became poor players overnight. And before anyone says RvW was never good enough I would like to point out that I know of very few, id any, Dutch internationals who cannot play the game.

[priceyrice 123]

The problem was there for all to see when we signed RVW and Hooper, neither player is suited for the lone striker role. Hooper has some of the attributes to play that role but RVW definitely does not.

I am desperate to see it work for RVW at this club but the truth is we look much more threatening with Hooper upfront, and even then we don''t often look like scoring.

I just can''t comprehend why we bought both these strikers when Hughton wants to play with a lone striker, we may as-well have stuck with Morrison and Holt, both more suited for the role than our current strike force.

I expect we will look to bring in a large target man type in the summer and RVW will fall to third choice striker.

While RVW shouldn''t be written off yet, Hughton should not be gambling on him finding form at such a vital time in our season and Hooper should start the next few games.