Mick Dennis article on Hughton on my football writer

[nutty nigel 7,533]

[quote user="Private Frazer"][quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="Private Frazer"][quote user="KeepTheFaith"]The end of the article sums it up perfectly

Darren Lewis of the Mirror and Alyson Rudd of the Times, two good friends of mine, were also covering the game – but with the more orthodox approach of sitting in the press seats for the action. When I joined them in the interviews area, they noted how gloomy I was but both, separately, said things like: “Surely you expected Norwich to struggle this season”. Alyson actually said: “I am amazed that Norwich fans have turned on the manager. Where did they expect to spend this season? In the top half?”

As ever, it is about expectations.

But is it too much to expect that Norwich supporters would think things through when a substitution is made? It was the knee-jerk response that “Hughton’s got it wrong” which was negative and clueless.

Too many Norwich fans with totally unreasonable expectations.

Chris Hughtons Yellow and Green Army[/quote]

That says more about how non City fans view Norwich City.

It says to me, many still see us as little ol'' Norwich making the numbers up and punching above our weight.  Well that''s fine.  Fine too that some of our own think this way too. But speaking for myself,  into the third season with the teams that''s been promoted after us.  It''s not too much of a stretch to have aspirations of a Norwich team pushing for the middle WITHOUT looking over our shoulders.

[/quote]

 

But surely all the clubs from 10th downwards are constantly looking over their shoulders and I think it''s the belief that we shouldn''t be among them that mystifies these journos. You''re just proving their point for them.

 

 

[/quote]

Not necessarily,  Soton have 42pts a rather nice number.  We have 29 pts.  Split the difference and say if we had an extra 6 pts.  Those 6pts seeing us in mid table.  Would see us probably where the majority of fans and the board would''ve reasonably hoped for at the start.  

With no undies getting watered and no fan bickering.  Comfortable with no worries.

[/quote]

 

Or comfortably in the top half or it''s not good enough. Just as those journos were saying...

 

 

[ZLF 274]

I am a not out now-er rather than an inner but to say the article is balanced is not quite true either. What is also wrong is to ridicule or deny his opinion when it does not accord with your own

We know where Mick''s views sit, treat his article in that context, it still more rational / less extreme that the absurdities proclaimed from the Other end of the spectrum by the likes of simple jack or Thorpe end canary etc who are equally entitled to their own view of the world

The truth is somewhere in the middle, as always

[CanaryOne 0]

For me, replacing Glenn now with any Tom, Dick or Paul would be insane…

Tue 6 Jan 09 by Mick Dennis

As the crass campaign to get rid of Glenn Roeder gathers support

from destructive Pink Un posters and embittered writers, it is time to

tell what I know about events when Peter Grant quit 15 months ago.

Norwich City, you recall, were at their lowest ebb for more than 40

years ? bottom of English football''s second tier, four points below the

safety line, packed with poor players and, as I wrote on this site at

the time, looking like a team for whom relegation would only be the

start of a long decline.

When Grant did the decent thing, two of the candidates to replace him were Paul Jewell and Paul Ince.

That much I know, but there is a lot I don''t know. I am not sure, for

instance, whether either had an interview. There are some things I can

state categorically, however.

Jewell, whom I rated because he had taken both Bradford and Wigan

into the Premier League, gave City the run-around for a couple of weeks.

He told friends that he thought “a better club” would approach him and

that he didn''t want to live in Norfolk.

Ince asked a journalist friend of mine whether Delia Smith and

Michael Wynn Jones intended to retain a controlling interest in the

club, because, if not, he was not interested. He wanted somewhere

stable, with owners he could trust.

I know some other stuff as well. I know that, just over a month later, Jewell joined Derby.

They did not win a single Premier League match under Jewell, who

spent the remaining six months of the season saying how bad the players

were.

Just before the end of the season he had to explain to his wife why

there were pictures of him in the News of the World, hot, fat and

sweaty, using the bonnet of his car to service another woman. You can

imagine how that scandal would have played at Delia''s family club.

Derby''s start in the Championship was far worse than expected by a

club with a parachute payment and Jewell finally resigned after a home

defeat by Ipswich.

Now let me tell you what I know about Ince, who had a 40 per cent

success rate as manager of Macclesfield and substantially better at MK

Dons. I know that he repeatedly refused to “do his badges”, so when his

appointment as manager of Blackburn took him into the Premier League

there was embarrassment in that organisation.

Premier League managers must have a UEFA coaching qualification but

the League give special, temporary exceptions to some with alibis.

Roeder, for instance, was half-way through the qualification when he

needed brain surgery. Gareth Southgate had spent many of his previous

summers (when coaching courses are held) on England duty.

Ince had just not bothered to attend courses, but the Premier League

felt that there had been so many precedents they had to make an

exception for him as well.

At Blackburn, however, there was immediate disquiet about his lack of

coaching acumen and old-fashioned training ground routines. He was

sacked after just 21 games, of which he had won just six.

The story of the two Pauls poses a question for those who have lost

patience with Roeder. The question is: if you drive him out, then what?

Who do imagine Norwich would get to replace him? Luiz Felipe Scolari?

Martin O''Neill?

Norwich City, a club of modest resources in an isolated, rural

county, would have to do what they have always done ? appoint an

unproven manager with apparent potential or someone who has lost his job

elsewhere.

And so the next question is: why make the barmy assumption that the

next bloke would arrive with a magic wand or a secret recipe for instant

success?

Sacking someone is always the easy option. The hard bit is deciding what to do next.

Fortunately, despite assertions to the contrary, the anti-Roeder mob do not represent the majority opinion.

Although most of the 3,200 fans who went to Charlton chanted “Roeder,

Roeder sort it out” (which he did, by the way) fewer than a third

joined the choruses of “We want Roeder out!”.

Fortunately as well, Delia and Michael will be brave again. I know

they were moved by the huge number of supporters who traveled to The

Valley. They accept without hesitation that fans who show that sort of

loyalty have an absolute right to voice frustration, disappointment and

hurt.

On the four occasions during our friendship that I have heard about

exceptionally appalling behaviour towards Smith and Wynn Jones ?

personal, in-their-faces abuse and threats ? our majority shareholders

have excused the offenders because the behaviour was motivated by

passion for the club.

So they''ll take the stick again this time. They won''t sack Roeder.

For my part, I think our manager has made mistakes. I believe that his sarcasm at the AGM and since was profoundly misguided.

I know that, after having West Ham fans call him “Tumour Boy” and

hearing Newcastle supporters say they wish he''d died, he probably

doesn''t have a very high opinion of football supporters generally. But

Norfolk folk don''t enjoy being the butt of irony and don''t deserve it.

As far as his football work at Norwich is concerned, I''d say Roeder

has done a thorougly good job. He inherited a desperately poor squad and

has improved the quality of players enormously. When they play well,

they are a joy to behold and are capable of out-passing teams like

Wolves and Reading.

But it''s a work in progress. There have been some dismal individual

and collective lapses. That is what happens. It''s called football.

If we''d managed to go through the season with Dejan Stefanovic and

John Kennedy at centre-back, we''d have shipped far fewer goals. The

problem, as always, is that we don''t have a couple of 20-goal strikers.

But, I''d rather have Roeder raiding the ranks of Premier League clubs

for temporary reinforcements than someone who thought John Hartson was

the answer to our prayers. Taking players on loan makes sense if they

are good players.

So it was a sound policy when Peter Crouch and Darren Huckerby came

our way and equally sound when Martin Taylor improved our defence for a

month.

I know, from talking to men like Arsene Wenger, that clubs want to

help Roeder and trust him with their charges. So it would be insane to

get rid of him and go through the process of trying to find another Tom,

Dick or Paul just as the transfer window is open.

In fact, it would be insane to get rid of Roeder, full stop.

If you''d told me, 15 months ago that we would stay up last season, I

would not have believed you. If you had then said that a new manager

would get rid of most of the dead wood and bring in players of the

calibre of Sammy Clingan and Wes Hoolahan, I would have been overjoyed.

If you''d added: “We''ll have a disappointing season in the

Championship in 2008-09…”, I would have tried to see the bigger picture.

I would have tried to take a longer-term view.

I am relieved we didn''t get Ince or Jewell. I think we''ve got a jewel.

Posted in Column, Mick Dennis |

[morty 0]

Whats your opinion on what that article says then Canary one?

[nutty nigel 7,533]

But to be fair he was right. Replacing him with any Tom, Dick or Bryan was insane...

 

 

[CanaryOne 0]

He gave his full support to a failing manager just like he is doing now with Hughton , in fact he says in his own words we have a jewel in Roeder . To me however bad the manager he will get Micks support much like some inners on here .

[morty 0]

[quote user="CanaryOne"]He gave his full support to a failing manager just like he is doing now with Hughton , in fact he says in his own words we have a jewel in Roeder . To me however bad the manager he will get Micks support much like some inners on here .[/quote]There was a time when pretty much all of us supported Roeder, its easy to throw things like this up after the fact though, isn''t it?What I take from that article is that Mick is saying change for the sake of it isn''t always the answer. And he was speaking out against some of the nasty, personal treatment Roeder endured.People really do read into things exactly what they want to.

[nutty nigel 7,533]

Was the headline prophetic?

 

 

[Waveney Canary 0]

Was the headline prophetic?

Indeed it was the first sign of the coming of the Messiah

[Indy 3,298]

[quote user="morty"][quote user="CanaryOne"]He gave his full support to a failing manager just like he is doing now with Hughton , in fact he says in his own words we have a jewel in Roeder . To me however bad the manager he will get Micks support much like some inners on here .
[/quote]

There was a time when pretty much all of us supported Roeder, its easy to throw things like this up after the fact though, isn''t it?

What I take from that article is that Mick is saying change for the sake of it isn''t always the answer. And he was speaking out against some of the nasty, personal treatment Roeder endured.

People really do read into things exactly what they want to.
[/quote]

 

Not me from day one, I had a friend who knew Roeder and he was not painted in the best light, even at time of his appointment I never wanted him here, unlike Hughton who I thought was and still is a good manager.

 

You could have employed Ferguson to replace Roeder at the time Gunn came in and we would still have gone down, we were awful on the pithch and had some not so good players here at the time, the better ones were let go. The biggest mistake was to appoint Gunn  the folowing summer.

 

As for the article, I see nothing in it really and personally I still want Hughton to turn it around, but alas from the past two weeks it looks likely that Hughton football will never change. Glimpse of how good we can be to just how poor we have been.

 

I hope he can nick a win at Southampton and then beat Sunderland, that ,ight just ease things a little bit.

 

False hope my excitement after the Spurs game, I was extremely happy to have enjoyed a game this year, but Stoke brought back just how lacklustre we are at times.

[PurpleCanary 5,558]

[quote user="morty"]There was a time when pretty much all of us supported Roeder.[/quote]It was published on January 6, 2009, and Roeder

was sacked eight days later, so it was hardly written at at time when

Roeder was enjoying support from "pretty much all of us". As it happens I

think Roeder, for all his faults, is often unfairly maligned, and

Dennis makes some reasonable points, in amongst (as with his latest

pro-Hughton piece) some unnecessary vitriol directed against fans.

[morty 0]

I didnt say it was purple.

So, essentially you agree with me.

Good.

[Nuff Said 5,135]

[quote user="Nuff Said"]<snip>Of

course I could be wrong, in which case I''m sure you''ll post some

evidence to back up that Dennis "gave his full support and backing to

Glen Roeder." Or withdraw what you said.[/quote][quote user="CanaryOne"]He gave his full support to a failing manager just like he is doing now with Hughton , in fact he says in his own words we have a jewel in Roeder . To me however bad the manager he will get Micks support much like some inners on here .[/quote]Fair enough, I was wrong. [ puts black cap on ]

[can u sit down please 0]

In roeders defence, when he first came in he sorted us out and we played some decent stuff.

In hindsight (like promotion to prem under worthy) the board should''ve been ruthless and say thanks, but you''ve taken us as far as you can.

[Mello Yello 2,289]

[Mello Yello 2,289]

[quote user="Mello Yello"][/quote]

[morty 0]

[:D]

[Mello Yello 2,289]

Oh Dear......this site''s thrown a wobbler......

[Mello Yello 2,289]

[Mello Yello 2,289]

BOOGER!

[morty 0]

I can see it when I quote your post.Here, allow me....

[URL=http://s869.photobucket.com/user/mortymccarthy/media/article-1092736-02B9F477000005DC-468_468x309_zps1ee71c61.jpg.html][IMG]http://i869.photobucket.com/albums/ab257/mortymccarthy/article-1092736-02B9F477000005DC-468_468x309_zps1ee71c61.jpg[/IMG][/URL]