Next season.

[Tetteys Jig 830]

I think unless there is a massive turn around in the next few weeks and we stay up comfortably and show we can actually muster a decent attacking, goals fueled performance, then Hughton needs to go regardless of if we stay up or not.

[Feedthewolf 4,844]

[quote user="Jimmy Smith"]I think unless there is a massive turn around in the next few weeks and we stay up comfortably and show we can actually muster a decent attacking, goals fueled performance, then Hughton needs to go regardless of if we stay up or not.[/quote]I agree with this. And our away performances in particular have shown no signs of improvement at all during Hughton''s tenure. Our gameplan away from home is still one-dimensional and relies heavily upon scoring the first goal and having something to defend, and even when we get that right we''re still vulnerable (see Villa). Even in the WBA away game we soaked up tons of pressure, WBA had loads of chances and we got a bit lucky. The only away game this season where we''ve achieved Hughton''s ''ideal'' away performance in terms of result and quality of football was the Stoke game. And although our home form is good, the West Ham game is the only home game since the opening day of the season where we''ve scored more than once.If the criteria that the OP stipulates are fulfilled, I would of course get behind Hughton, but I genuinely can''t see that happening.

[lake district canary 4,531]

[quote user="Feedthewolf"][quote user="Jimmy Smith"]I think unless there is a massive turn around in the next few weeks and we stay up comfortably and show we can actually muster a decent attacking, goals fueled performance, then Hughton needs to go regardless of if we stay up or not.[/quote]I agree with this. And our away performances in particular have shown no signs of improvement at all during Hughton''s tenure. Our gameplan away from home is still one-dimensional and relies heavily upon scoring the first goal and having something to defend, and even when we get that right we''re still vulnerable (see Villa).  Even in the WBA away game we soaked up tons of pressure, WBA had loads of chances and we got a bit lucky. The only away game this season where we''ve achieved Hughton''s ''ideal'' away performance in terms of result and quality of football was the Stoke game. And although our home form is good, the West Ham game is the only home game since the opening day of the season where we''ve scored more than once.[/quote]

I would only say that there have been several "near misses" away from home.  We murdered Cardiff and West Ham away and could have easily won both games comfortably if our finishing had been better, Sunderland away was a good performance for a point.    It is a mixed bag  - and we sometimes haven''t had the results our play deserved at home either  - Aston Villa and Cardiff at home for instance.    Its not all good - but its not all bad either.   So I would say there is still a lot of progress that needs to be made - but there has been some progress in attacking play.  The only thing that we need to complete the picture is one or two more goals to build on the chances we create.  

Its easy to see the bad things and with us not scoring enough, it makes it harder to see the good things, but they are there - and it wouldn''t take much to make us a lot happier, an RVW or Hooper  goal would help - no, that''s not quite right  - anyone scoring would be a help!

[Feedthewolf 4,844]

[quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="Feedthewolf"][quote user="Jimmy Smith"]I think unless there is a massive turn around in the next few weeks and we stay up comfortably and show we can actually muster a decent attacking, goals fueled performance, then Hughton needs to go regardless of if we stay up or not.[/quote]I agree with this. And our away performances in particular have shown no signs of improvement at all during Hughton''s tenure. Our gameplan away from home is still one-dimensional and relies heavily upon scoring the first goal and having something to defend, and even when we get that right we''re still vulnerable (see Villa).  Even in the WBA away game we soaked up tons of pressure, WBA had loads of chances and we got a bit lucky. The only away game this season where we''ve achieved Hughton''s ''ideal'' away performance in terms of result and quality of football was the Stoke game. And although our home form is good, the West Ham game is the only home game since the opening day of the season where we''ve scored more than once.[/quote]

I would only say that there have been several "near misses" away from home.  We murdered Cardiff and West Ham away and could have easily won both games comfortably if our finishing had been better, Sunderland away was a good performance for a point.    It is a mixed bag  - and we sometimes haven''t had the results our play deserved at home either  - Aston Villa and Cardiff at home for instance.    Its not all good - but its not all bad either.   So I would say there is still a lot of progress that needs to be made - but there has been some progress in attacking play.  The only thing that we need to complete the picture is one or two more goals to build on the chances we create.  

Its easy to see the bad things and with us not scoring enough, it makes it harder to see the good things, but they are there - and it wouldn''t take much to make us a lot happier, an RVW or Hooper  goal would help - no, that''s not quite right  - anyone scoring would be a help!

[/quote]I don''t see progress, personally; last season we had a couple of ''purple patches'' where performances and results went well. This season, we''ve not even had that; we''ve failed to win successive games, and only once gone three games unbeaten (a win and two draws). In terms of consistency that''s a marked deterioration in terms of results; while I concede we have been unlucky in a fair few games and performances aren''t worse than last season, I wouldn''t say they were any better. And that''s considering we spent a lot of money on good players in the summer, including £14m on two strikers who don''t (and can''t) play together. I''ll make a judgement at the end of the season, but the way I feel at the moment I definitely want a change of management in the summer. I''m really not enjoying watching us play at the moment.

[nutty nigel 7,509]

As always it''s not a cure sacking the manager. If we stay up he will then have done it for the second consecutive year. So to get better you''d be hoping we''d get someone who could achieve at least that for at least three seasons. The idea that "anyone could do better" is pie in the sky. I would say there''s more chance we''d employ someone who''d achieve less.

 

 

[Feedthewolf 4,844]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

As always it''s not a cure sacking the manager. If we stay up he will then have done it for the second consecutive year. So to get better you''d be hoping we''d get someone who could achieve at least that for at least three seasons. The idea that "anyone could do better" is pie in the sky. I would say there''s more chance we''d employ someone who''d achieve less. [/quote]

I don''t buy the ''anyone could do better'' argument; it''s facile, to be honest. However, the thought of watching this style of football for the next few years is profoundly demotivating as a supporter, even if we are in the top flight.

With hindsight, I admire the board''s faith in the manager in a time when it''s all too easy to swing the axe (Fulham, West Brom and Cardiff have done so with no improvement in form); however, there''s a fine line between stability and stagnation. Therefore, unless there''s a profound improvement in both performances and results between now and the end of the season, I''d be wholeheartedly behind a change of manager in the summer, irrespective of what division we''re in.

A new manager with new ideas and a couple of months to embed his footballing philosophy could really galvanise the fans and the players; I have no doubt that the players want to play for Hughton – if they didn''t he''d have been gone by now – but I doubt too many of them would be devastated if we appointed a manager with a little more of an attacking outlook.

[nutty nigel 7,509]

[quote user="Feedthewolf"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

As always it''s not a cure sacking the manager. If we stay up he will then have done it for the second consecutive year. So to get better you''d be hoping we''d get someone who could achieve at least that for at least three seasons. The idea that "anyone could do better" is pie in the sky. I would say there''s more chance we''d employ someone who''d achieve less. [/quote]

I don''t buy the ''anyone could do better'' argument; it''s facile, to be honest. However, the thought of watching this style of football for the next few years is profoundly demotivating as a supporter, even if we are in the top flight.

With hindsight, I admire the board''s faith in the manager in a time when it''s all too easy to swing the axe (Fulham, West Brom and Cardiff have done so with no improvement in form); however, there''s a fine line between stability and stagnation. Therefore, unless there''s a profound improvement in both performances and results between now and the end of the season, I''d be wholeheartedly behind a change of manager in the summer, irrespective of what division we''re in.

A new manager with new ideas and a couple of months to embed his footballing philosophy could really galvanise the fans and the players; I have no doubt that the players want to play for Hughton – if they didn''t he''d have been gone by now – but I doubt too many of them would be devastated if we appointed a manager with a little more of an attacking outlook.

[/quote]

 

You make some very good points but they are only good in the assumtion that a replacement would achieve at least as much. And that''s where I''m not so confident. Our three seasons is one hell of an achievement which has now become a minimum expectation. How many clubs manage that and longer without major extra investment? Every season we stay up is likely to become a chore of collecting 40 points.

 

 

 

 

[can u sit down please 0]

When people talk about candidates they only ever assume the interested ones will be out of work.

Very short sighted.

[nutty nigel 7,509]

Not sure anybody is talking about candidates. I think Tim Sherwood was mentioned but he''s obviously in work. Anyway, both the managers this board have appointed were in work with other clubs at the time. So I think you''re scaremongering CUSDP.

 

 

[can u sit down please 0]

Not scaremongering at all.

It''s all over the board. Your di Matteo''s, Malkys, zolas, clarkes, hoddles etc are all out of work.

"Nobody is out there!" The inners say, that''s because they only consider the out of work ones as available.

You''re right about Hughton/lambert, we enticed them and I think it''ll happen again.

Sherwood aside, I don''t think anybody has said another manager currently in work.

[nutty nigel 7,509]

Please don''t confuse "nobody''s out there" with concerns that we may not get anyone better. And please don''t confuse those who have those concerns with people who wouldn''t like improvement.

 

 

[nutty nigel 7,509]

Just to add I don''t think that point of view is all over the board. In fact I think it''s rather rare. And the only person to have said it on this thread is you CUSDP.

 

 

[can u sit down please 0]

The next time the subject pops up about who''s out there, just look at the names banded about and the cries of "nobody is better than what we have".

[Feedthewolf 4,844]

[quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="Feedthewolf"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

As always it''s not a cure sacking the manager. If we stay up he will then have done it for the second consecutive year. So to get better you''d be hoping we''d get someone who could achieve at least that for at least three seasons. The idea that "anyone could do better" is pie in the sky. I would say there''s more chance we''d employ someone who''d achieve less. [/quote]

I don''t buy the ''anyone could do better'' argument; it''s facile, to be honest. However, the thought of watching this style of football for the next few years is profoundly demotivating as a supporter, even if we are in the top flight.

With hindsight, I admire the board''s faith in the manager in a time when it''s all too easy to swing the axe (Fulham, West Brom and Cardiff have done so with no improvement in form); however, there''s a fine line between stability and stagnation. Therefore, unless there''s a profound improvement in both performances and results between now and the end of the season, I''d be wholeheartedly behind a change of manager in the summer, irrespective of what division we''re in.

A new manager with new ideas and a couple of months to embed his footballing philosophy could really galvanise the fans and the players; I have no doubt that the players want to play for Hughton – if they didn''t he''d have been gone by now – but I doubt too many of them would be devastated if we appointed a manager with a little more of an attacking outlook.

[/quote]

 

You make some very good points but they are only good in the assumtion that a replacement would achieve at least as much. And that''s where I''m not so confident. Our three seasons is one hell of an achievement which has now become a minimum expectation. How many clubs manage that and longer without major extra investment? Every season we stay up is likely to become a chore of collecting 40 points.

 

 

 

 

[/quote]Yes, fair point Nigel. However, I don''t want that ''chore'' to be as painful to watch as the last two seasons have been. Wigan, Swansea and Stoke have all had prolonged spells in the top flight without a huge amount of investment; admittedly Stoke were very ugly under Pulis, but it is possible without huge amounts of financial backing if you have a manager who suits the club, or a sound footballing philosophy (a la Swansea) where you replace the manager with another who has a very similar outlook.I don''t like harking back to you-know-who all the time, but it didn''t feel like a chore under him, even though the points total and circumstances were largely the same. If we had a manager who made that ''chore'' feel like an adventure, I think he would get almost universal support from the fans, and that clearly isn''t the case with Hughton.

[Katie Borkins 1]

[quote user="Jimmy Smith"]I think unless there is a massive turn around in the next few weeks and we stay up comfortably and show we can actually muster a decent attacking, goals fueled performance, then Hughton needs to go regardless of if we stay up or not.[/quote]Reckon I agree with that, though to be honest that''s more about the intent rather than the number of goals. So when we got that 0-0 with Cardiff, I was actually happy enough because I reckoned if we kept playing like that, the goals will come.  The only thing Bor would like to see is a bit more blood and thunder and some of that attacking spirit to lift the crowd.  That might be we still win 1-0, but that''s the manner of the performance that matters to me.

[Deptford Canary 0]

Hughton will leave this summer whatever happens - that seems clear to me. The board wanted him to be a success and gave him so long it got to the point where it got too late to change him. If we stay up he''ll leave by mutual consent with ''thanks'' for his ''hard work'' and without too much harm to his CV. He''s currently working hard to save his reputation. He knows he won''t be here next season.

[nutty nigel 7,509]

[quote user="can u sit down please"]The next time the subject pops up about who''s out there, just look at the names banded about and the cries of "nobody is better than what we have".[/quote]

 

So it''s not all over the board now or even on this thread at all so intstead of discussing what was here you introduced that so you could then argue against it. Strange behaviour buddy[;)]

 

 

[nutty nigel 7,509]

[quote user="Feedthewolf"][quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="Feedthewolf"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

As always it''s not a cure sacking the manager. If we stay up he will then have done it for the second consecutive year. So to get better you''d be hoping we''d get someone who could achieve at least that for at least three seasons. The idea that "anyone could do better" is pie in the sky. I would say there''s more chance we''d employ someone who''d achieve less. [/quote]

I don''t buy the ''anyone could do better'' argument; it''s facile, to be honest. However, the thought of watching this style of football for the next few years is profoundly demotivating as a supporter, even if we are in the top flight.

With hindsight, I admire the board''s faith in the manager in a time when it''s all too easy to swing the axe (Fulham, West Brom and Cardiff have done so with no improvement in form); however, there''s a fine line between stability and stagnation. Therefore, unless there''s a profound improvement in both performances and results between now and the end of the season, I''d be wholeheartedly behind a change of manager in the summer, irrespective of what division we''re in.

A new manager with new ideas and a couple of months to embed his footballing philosophy could really galvanise the fans and the players; I have no doubt that the players want to play for Hughton – if they didn''t he''d have been gone by now – but I doubt too many of them would be devastated if we appointed a manager with a little more of an attacking outlook.

[/quote]

 

You make some very good points but they are only good in the assumtion that a replacement would achieve at least as much. And that''s where I''m not so confident. Our three seasons is one hell of an achievement which has now become a minimum expectation. How many clubs manage that and longer without major extra investment? Every season we stay up is likely to become a chore of collecting 40 points.

 

 

 

 

[/quote]Yes, fair point Nigel. However, I don''t want that ''chore'' to be as painful to watch as the last two seasons have been. Wigan, Swansea and Stoke have all had prolonged spells in the top flight without a huge amount of investment; admittedly Stoke were very ugly under Pulis, but it is possible without huge amounts of financial backing if you have a manager who suits the club, or a sound footballing philosophy (a la Swansea) where you replace the manager with another who has a very similar outlook.I don''t like harking back to you-know-who all the time, but it didn''t feel like a chore under him, even though the points total and circumstances were largely the same. If we had a manager who made that ''chore'' feel like an adventure, I think he would get almost universal support from the fans, and that clearly isn''t the case with Hughton.[/quote]

 

When you look back at our managers in the modern game Lambert stands out head and shoulders above anyone else. Knowing how long it took to get one like him I''m not expecting another one very soon. But you never know...

 

 

[Mr Jenkins 0]

When you look back at our managers in the modern game Lambert stands out head and shoulders above anyone else. Knowing how long it took to get one like him I''m not expecting another one very soon. But you never know...

I dont follow your reasoning, are you suggesting it was a fluke that Lambert was so good?

[nutty nigel 7,509]

[quote user="Brienne"]When you look back at our managers in the modern game Lambert stands out head and shoulders above anyone else. Knowing how long it took to get one like him I''m not expecting another one very soon. But you never know...

I dont follow your reasoning, are you suggesting it was a fluke that Lambert was so good?[/quote]

 

No, whatever it was he was a perfect fit for our club. It''s not the norm. Here''s the full list since the premier league era begun :-

 

John Deehan, Gary Megson, Martin O''Neill, Gary Megson, Mike Walker II, Bruce Rioch, Brian Hamilton, Nigel Worthington, Peter Grant, Glenn Roeder, Bryan Gunn, Paul Lambert Chris Hughton.

 

Now there are some reasonable managers there and plenty of duds but Lambert is the one that stands out from that generation. Do you think it was only when we appointed Lambert that we made any effort to find a good ''un?

 

 

 

    

[Mr Jenkins 0]

Got more confidence in McNally and this Board to chose the right man than in the recent past. Lambo was a great appointment, If Hughton keeps us up history will judge him well, he will be seen as a man who came into the impossible job and kept us in the Premiership for two seasons. Two appointments that have done a job, I think with that record I would trust them to get a new man that will have the ability to move the club forward, dont you?

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

[quote user="Brienne"]Got more confidence in McNally and this Board to chose the right man than in the recent past. Lambo was a great appointment, If Hughton keeps us up history will judge him well, he will be seen as a man who came into the impossible job and kept us in the Premiership for two seasons. Two appointments that have done a job, I think with that record I would trust them to get a new man that will have the ability to move the club forward, dont you?[/quote]No. He became manager under generally very favourable circumstances.The job was a very long way from impossible.

[City 2nd 191]

morty wrote the following post at 2014-03-12 2:03 PM:

So then, it pans out like this.

We stay up in, I don''t know, 13th place. Ricky has found his shooting boots and starts to score. The summer comes, there isn''t a better manager available, we buy a few decent players, and CH is still here at the start of the next season.

Do you get behind him? New season, new slate?

Or do you carry over this seasons grudges (actually like some did from last season)?

It''s not a grudge Morty, it''s the footballing fare that is on offer, consistently, game after game after game. Last season we defended well over periods, but could not, and did not, score goals. This season we have gone backwards, we cannot defend consistently, we have poorer strikers than last season with a worse goal return, and we have consistently struggled.

As a NCFC supporter of many years, I will always support them, and watch them, whoever is in charge, whatever the outcome, but there does come a time when you have to question what you are seeing.

It cannot be argued that the CEO is correct when HE states that NCFC are in the entertainment business, and results are paramount to that business. Quite simply, supporters are not getting value for money - sometimes it''s not just about the game you lost, but about the way in which you lost it!

Whilst we all applauded when Sky TV made football more accessible to all around the world, their involvement has caused a massive divide in the footballing world with the money made available and the top six are just that, and the rest will always be also rans.

To make sure you remain as also ran receiving your part of the lucrative finances, is that encouraging managers to go out there and play ''football'' in the manner it should or we want it to be played, or simply to exist by playing defensive and non committal crap!

It really is the devil and the deep blue sea, I have renewed my season ticket, but only after speaking with the club, and I have reserved the right to cancel my ticket at any time and return it to them, just as anyone can do.

This I have based on exactly what the CEO states - I will watch football wherever, whenever I can, local, league, international. I can pick games to attend that I believe will be entertaining, and invariably they are.

However, I don''t pick and chose what city games I go to, I go to all home games, and a few away, because I am a fanatical supporter, whoever is in charge, but these last two seasons have made me seriously question for how much longer I can go on doing that.

It sis really interesting to hear the club state that the uptake of season tickets for next season is higher than last. That I expected, simply not because supporters are backing the manager, but because purchasing your ticket prior to the first deadline was cheaper, and in the current financial climate, that seems obvious to me that would happen.

The figures come the final renewal date may well be more interesting. And what will happen if we are relegated, and let''s not all bury our heads in the sand, in our current predicament, that is very possible. God forbid that happens, because that could, in essence, out us back years.

That is when ''grudges'' would be aired.

[morty 0]

It was a simple question, I didn''t need your life story.

[City 2nd 191]

morty wrote the following post at 2014-03-15 1:36 PM:

It was a simple question, I didn''t need your life story.

Sorry about that, expected your answer somehow, lol.

Enjoy your day, some entertaining rugby today!

[Mr Jenkins 0]

I agree with you Purple to a point.

I didnt say the job was impossible, I said that if he was to keep us up and then go he will not be seen as a failure, history will judge him favourably.

He has not been a bad appointment, just not good enough to take us forward.

[morty 0]

[quote user="City 2nd"]morty wrote the following post at 2014-03-15 1:36 PM:

It was a simple question, I didn''t need your life story.

Sorry about that, expected your answer somehow, lol.

Enjoy your day, some entertaining rugby today![/quote]The point of the thread wasn''t about having a whinge, as there may have been one or two threads where that has been done already.The point was that a lot of people started this season apparently not wanting Hughton as manager, and I threw in a few parameters (including one that we actually finish just one place where we currently sit) to see what could sway peoples opinion, and more so if, once the season is done, people will have the ability to maybe view the situation with a bit less emotion, and a bit more common sense.

[morty 0]

[quote user="Brienne"]I agree with you Purple to a point.

I didnt say the job was impossible, I said that if he was to keep us up and then go he will not be seen as a failure, history will judge him favourably.

He has not been a bad appointment, just not good enough to take us forward.[/quote]The job was an extremely hard one, for two reasons.Competing against the momentum of the previous seasons, and not being Paul Lambert.

[City 2nd 191]

Morty wrote:

The point of the thread wasn''t about having a whinge, as there may have been one or two threads where that has been done already.

So sorry I rattled your cage!

[morty 0]

[quote user="City 2nd"]Morty wrote:

The point of the thread wasn''t about having a whinge, as there may have been one or two threads where that has been done already.

So sorry I rattled your cage![/quote]You didn''t rattle my cage at all fella, I just felt you misunderstood the point of the thread[Y]