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lake district canary

Ok. Look at the table.

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And we still have the wherewithal to avoid the drop and are still in reach of eleventh place.

So dry your eyes, have a drink and look forward to the next match.

I''ll just put a quote from the BBC website about todays game...

Southampton were leading 3-0 and had looked in complete control against a Norwich side that had been woeful and struggled to create any chances.

And one from Hooton...

"We rallied in the end and made a game of it but we didn''t deserve to be in that position as we had conceded poor goals.

"We had periods where we weathered the storm and got into good areas, but it was not consistent enough. They have really good movement and pace and you have to match that, but for too long we were not able to do so.

"At 3-0 down it was tough and it was nothing less than what we deserved, but we dug in and showed character. Our intention was to give a very good Southampton side a decent game and for large parts of the match we were unable to do that."

Not a lot to look forward to there then...

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What about Steve Clark ex WBA? I think he did a good job at WBA initially and I think he was unlucky to be sacked.

Unfortunately Hughton has had the time to turn things around but it hasn''t worked. We are poor in attack and at times poor in defence. Without Hoolahan we don''t have much creativity and yet he doesn''t play him and today he didn''t even bring him on as sub. We struggle with Hughton & co and we may or may not struggle with a new manager & coaching team as has been said before but I think it slightly favours a change. Possibly it should have been done in December before Transfer window but better late than never.

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[quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"]I just looked at the table... If the teams two teams directly below us pick up a draw in their game in hand and Sunderland pick up 4 points from their 3 games in hand we are in the relegation zone.[/quote]

If my aunt had balls...........................................................

points are always better than games in hand.

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[quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"]I just looked at the table... If the teams two teams directly below us pick up a draw in their game in hand and Sunderland pick up 4 points from their 3 games in hand we are in the relegation zone.[/quote]Not defending LDC, but lots of "ifs" there. Aren''t Sunderlands games in hand quite hard?

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[quote user="ricardo"][quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"]I just looked at the table... If the teams two teams directly below us pick up a draw in their game in hand and Sunderland pick up 4 points from their 3 games in hand we are in the relegation zone.
[/quote]


If my aunt had balls...........................................................


points are always better than games in hand.
[/quote]

 

Not according to Murhino! But I agree with you Ricardo points on the board are alway better than potential points!

 

That said how important is the Sunderland game, it''s a must win!

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[quote user="morty"][quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"]I just looked at the table... If the teams two teams directly below us pick up a draw in their game in hand and Sunderland pick up 4 points from their 3 games in hand we are in the relegation zone.[/quote]Not defending LDC, but lots of "ifs" there. Aren''t Sunderlands games in hand quite hard?[/quote]Absolutely,  Sunderland have two very tough ones and West Brom I think.  So we know for sure we are closer to the zone in either points or places than now, as one of the those two sides will pick up something. Palace play Everton.Lose next weekend and Sunderland only need 1 point from their 3 games in hand to move above us.  It is imperative we win next weekend or we will be right in the relegation mix.  Hughton has managed to get a result in every must-win game so far...  For all our sakes I hope he pulls a result out of the bag next Saturday.

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[quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"][quote user="morty"][quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"]I just looked at the table... If the teams two teams directly below us pick up a draw in their game in hand and Sunderland pick up 4 points from their 3 games in hand we are in the relegation zone.[/quote]Not defending LDC, but lots of "ifs" there. Aren''t Sunderlands games in hand quite hard?[/quote]Absolutely,  Sunderland have two very tough ones and West Brom I think.  So we know for sure we are closer to the zone in either points or places than now, as one of the those two sides will pick up something. Palace play Everton.Lose next weekend and Sunderland only need 1 point from their 3 games in hand to move above us.  It is imperative we win next weekend or we will be right in the relegation mix.  Hughton has managed to get a result in every must-win game so far...  For all our sakes I hope he pulls a result out of the bag next Saturday.[/quote]Next week is a must win.Lost that and I will genuinely be worried.

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I think we have major problems if we draw as well. These next 2 home games are make or break imo. Failure to get 6 points is going to leave us needing results from elsewhere

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Our whole season comes down to winning those two home games. Then we hope to pick the odd point up somewhere else. Just cant see us doing it unless we try something different, we have to score goals at home!

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I really get concerned why a person is insulted so much on this board simply for being positive and having a different view of things to others, some on here really do need to take a look at themselves and ask, would I speak to that person like that if they were in front of me, and I would say no you wouldnt.

Anyway, to the subject matter........the table really doesnt look good does it, and whilst I wasnt expecting anything other than perhaps a lucky bonus point yesterday it was the overall performance this time that worried me.

Whilst understanding why, I personally wanted to see Bassong in the team yesterday, but was comfortable with Wes not starting and also Pilkington starting. The problem then was how, when given a chance the players that came in performed, and that is cause for concern in addition to the shape and balance of the team somehow didnt work, even with the midfield unit I personally like and that I feel is key to our survival. As a side point, Southampton did play well and do now look a class above us, thats what you get when you spend big like they have.

So, for me, the worry is the limitations of the squad when changes are made as we go into the final run in, players dont appear to be taking responsibility when they are called upon. For example, Pilks is a player with great talent who generally when he gets an opportunity puts a good shift in, but I didnt see that yesterday, he looked a little disinterested, regardless of whether his fitness is not at its best yet, I didnt see him busting a gut. Without Bass the defence didnt look as strong as usual, not helped by Whittaker who despite some excellent performances previously, when given the chance now just doesnt seem to do enough, just examples that a usually very positive me is concerned about.

That all said, the one thing going for us, is that ability to bounce back at home and thats why I remain confident that we will still just scrape enough points together to cling on to our place in this league........and why I understand LDC''s positiveness.........and I welcome his posts.......we need both sides of the argument now dont we...OTBC      

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Dubious coming over all sanctimonious, that''s a laugh.

Let''s clear up a couple of points.

Southampton, by general consensus, did not play well yesterday. Playing against such an inept Norwich team may have made them look like world-beaters, but they were coming off a recent home record of W1 D3 L4..........5 points from a possible 24....that implies a vulnerability at home that an impotent City team never looked likely to exploit.

Southampton have spent big, but only on a handful of players. Wanyama wasn''t involved yesterday, and Osvaldo is history. Loren and Rodriguez cost much the same as RVW and Hooper, which leaves Ramirez as the only outstanding ''''big money'' signing on the pitch.

Norwich were appalling yesterday. They are in a dog fight to stay out of the bottom three, and yet of all the teams at the bottom they are showing the least fight.

The two goals handed to Norwich on a plate merely underlined how vulnerable Southampton have been ''at home'' of late, and how badly Hughton got team selection and tactics wrong.

Hughton is in desperation mode and has clearly run out of ideas. Changing 50% of the defence, playing Hoolahan sporadically, not knowing which of his expensive forwards to start with.....all point to a manager ''on tilt''.

No reason for optimism.

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LDC you say that it''s not surprising that we lost but isn''t that the problem?

Why is it inevitable that we lose to a team in poor form who have been in the same league as us for less time? Surely this just outlines how far we''ve fallen under Hughton and a complete lack of ambition?

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[quote user="Clint"]LDC you say that it''s not surprising that we lost but isn''t that the problem?

Why is it inevitable that we lose to a team in poor form who have been in the same league as us for less time? Surely this just outlines how far we''ve fallen under Hughton and a complete lack of ambition?[/quote]

Southampton have had a lot more money to spend on players than us and it shows.   They are at the stage we would like to be at, but we won''t be able to emulate that until we have built up more resources, hopefully by staying in this league another season or two. Then we might be able to say we should be able to match them.   But don''t get me wrong.  I still think we can give a match to anyone in the league on our day - but it isn''t going to happen every week.  

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LDC, I''m sorry but I have to disagree.

Looking at the 14 players who appeared for each team yesterday, I''d guess there''s very little in terms of money spent. I''m happy for you to prove me wrong though.

Certainly, the difference, if there is any, certainly wasn''t great enough to justify the gulf in class and ability of the two teams. We looked like we were still in League One!

Which brings me onto my next point. I agree that on our day we can match anyone and I don''t expect it every week. But why does it happen so infrequently? And why do we outclassed by very average teams so often?

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[quote user="Clint"]LDC, I''m sorry but I have to disagree.

Looking at the 14 players who appeared for each team yesterday, I''d guess there''s very little in terms of money spent. I''m happy for you to prove me wrong though.

Certainly, the difference, if there is any, certainly wasn''t great enough to justify the gulf in class and ability of the two teams. We looked like we were still in League One!

Which brings me onto my next point. I agree that on our day we can match anyone and I don''t expect it every week. But why does it happen so infrequently? And why do we outclassed by very average teams so often?[/quote]

I agree we should be able to compete better than we did yesterday, even if losing there, in itself, is not a disgrace.   As  for performances generally, it seemed to be improving up to the Villa game, I just hope we can get back to those types of good performances and quickly! 

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OK, looking at the table, Sunderland have 25 points from 27 games, which is just under a point a game. They have 3 games in hand over us, which based purely on the numbers suggests 3 points from them over the next 3 games would not be surprising. Which would put them on 28 points. West Brom and Palace have a game in hand on us, so using the same rationale will arguably each pick up a point from their game in hand, moving above us on goal difference.

Based on the law of averages, a realistic table with us all on equal number of games played would see us one place and one point above the relegation zone, with 8 games left to play, and 4 of these against the big 4.

This doesnt leave me very reassured. We HAVE to do the business against our relegation rivals in the next 4 games or it looks rather likely we will go down. Think we need more than 4 points from the next 4 games to avoid relegation

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[quote user="Gingerpele"]
Look forward to the next match?
Are you for real? How on earth can we look forward to the next match?
If you know anything about me you''ll know i''m generally very positive when it comes to NCFC
But seriously LDC. We''re terrible at the moment. We are at huge risk in terms of relegation and its incredibly worrying and frustrating because we have a set of players who should have seen us safer than the last two seasons. But we''ve regressed and look like we have no fight, no desire, no tactical ability, no leaders, no goal scoring ability, no defensive ability.
Two goals because of lazy Southampton mistakes aren''t a positive. If Ricky had scored, maybe. But Elamdner isn''t about to go on a goal scoring run. We''ve lost another away game. We lost to another team who weren''t in great form. We''re now putting huge amounts of pressure on our next two home games. And its all just unnecessary.
If you''re not worrying great. But stop trying to get other people to stop worrying.
[/quote]Agree with all this.I admire LDC for standing his ground but his depressingly relentless optimism can get you down.....

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Canary Caller of the year Smithy! Absolutely brilliant asnd you made a great impression on hospital radio too [Y]

 

 

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I admire the optimism LDC and ultimately losing to Southampton in isolation is not a disaster. They are an excellent side brimming with quality players - many of whom are full internationals or have the potential to be.

But I don''t think Its just about the table though - that''s a bit short sighted and is only scratching the surface. You have to look at the whole picture which includes form, morale, remaining fixtures and injuries.

When you factor those in it isn''t looking great for us, particularly with those 4 games we''ve got left at the end of the season. One of our three most influential central midfielders is probably going to miss the rest of the season with injury and in terms of form only Cardiff have collected less point from their previous 6 games.

Obviously anything can happen in this league. Who would have thought we would get 4 points off Man City and Spurs? But on the balance of probabilities right now I do think sadly there is better than evens chance of us being relegated.

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The form is the problem. Personally I back us to get 7 or 8 points from our next 4 games and I think that will be enough to stay up. But I think those who are worried are worried for a good reason. If we don''t take maximum points off Sunderland then I will also be very worried.

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]

Canary Caller of the year Smithy! Absolutely brilliant asnd you made a great impression on hospital radio too [Y]

 

[/quote]Must confess I broke a habit of a lifetime and had a few sherberts pre-match to get through the 90 mins Nutty [;)] Rob Butler must have recognised who I was as he wished me a safe journey back to Peterborough.Great day out - if you forget the footie - and I did manage a reasonable tan sprawled out basking in those seats behind the goal. So it wasn''t all bad.....

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The players just need to get back to whatever inspired them for Man c and Spurs which have been nothing like the dross since,in fact I do wonder what they do in training I fact it makes you wonder if the missing plane landed at the Norwich training ground after all nobody would find it there.

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" If we don''t take maximum points off Sunderland then I will also be very worried"

Agreed, however for those saying we have no chance of getting points off the last four games, the following fixtures list shows just how many competitive games all of the teams around us have to play - so yes we need to take our opportunities over the next four games, but if we can the we''ll surely be O.K, as not everyone can be a winner....

(in this table GD is relative to our current GD....)

Fulham 24 points - 11 GD

Man City (away)

Everton (home)

Villa (away)

Norwich (home)

Tottenham (away)

Hull (home)

Stoke (away)

Palace (home)

Cardiff 25 points - 5 GD

Liverpool (home)

West Brom (away)

Palace (home)

Southampton (away)

Stoke (home)

Sunderland (away)

Newcastle (away)

Chelsea (home)

Sunderland 25 points + 8 GD

Norwich - away

Liverpool - away

West Ham - home

Spurs - away

Everton - home

Man City - away

Chelsea - away

Cardiff - home

Man Utd - away

West Brom - home

Swansea - home

Palace 28 points + 5 GD

Newcastle (away)

Chelease (home)

Cardiff (away)

Villa (home)

Everton (away)

West Ham (away)

Man City (home)

Liverpool (home)

Fulham (away)

West Brom 28 points + 14 GD

Hull (away)

Cardiff (home)

Norwich (away)

Tottenham (home)

Man City (away)

West Ham (home)

Arsenal (away)

Sunderland (away)

Stoke (home)

Norwich 29 points REF GD

Sunderland (home)

Swansea (away)

West Brom (home)

Fulham (away)

Liverpool (home)

Man Utd (away)

Chelsea (away)

Arsenal (home)

Swansea 29 points +19 GD

Everton (away)

Arsenal (away)

Norwich (home)

Hull (away)

Chelsea (home)

Newcastle (away)

Aston Villa (home)

Southampton (home)

Sunderland (away)

Hull 30 points +17 GD

West Brom (home)

West Ham (away)

Stoke (away)

Swansea (home)

Arsenal (home)

Fulham (away)

Villa (away)

Man Utd (away)

Everton (home)

West Ham 31 points +18 GD

Man Utd (away)

Hull (home)

Sunderland (away)

Liverpool (home)

Arsenal (away)

Palace (home)

West Brom (away)

Tottenham (home)

Man City (away)

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