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Winning 25

Pretty boy Steven Whittaker

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I want lion hearts in the team, not this pampered liability. Played Schneiderlin on side for the first goal. Was it his rubbish challenge on their 4th?

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Our best form came with him in the team and then we just insisted on playing Martin for quite a long time even though he has been average at best for most of that.

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Eh?......my POTS by a country mile........

If it hadn''t been for his hopelessly miscued shot, RVW would still be struggling for his Norwich City debut goal.......

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[quote user="GJP"]Our best form came with him in the team and then we just insisted on playing Martin for quite a long time even though he has been average at best for most of that.[/quote]

Whittaker is rubbish.

Martin is clearly better. Every time Whittaker plays he is at fault, quote clearly, for goals we''ve conceded. People try to blame Martin for some goals, but really he''s not one to make such simple mistakes Whittaker makes particularly when it comes to marking/playing onside.

If our ''best form'' (not that we''ve had any) did come with Whittaker in the side it was a huge coincidence, he''s never built a partnership with Snodgrass. He can''t defend. His only plus point is he can occasionally score a decent goal.

Might as well have played Bunn at RB today.

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Clearly Whittaker isn''t rubbish. I don''t rate Martin that highly but I wouldn''t say he''s rubbish.

 

Anyway, I would suggest if you were to watch the Villa and Stoke games back and pretend it was Whittaker turning in the performances that Martin did then you would say it was fair enough he was dropped today.

 

Martin has had plenty long at right back and hasn''t done much with it. Time for Whittaker to have another go, hopefully CH will do the decent thing and give him a run of games.

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whittaker is a champs player, martin is a decent prem squad player, if we stay up we need improvement at rb.

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Whittaker was poor today but Martin''s been poor, particularly in the last couple of games, so i can see why he started.

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Well GJP he may not have been good in those games, but as far as I know he didn''t make any goal conceding mistakes.

Whittaker did today. He did in the last game I remember him playing. He did in an earlier game this season. It''s a common occurrence. He doesn''t know how to mark and he doesn''t keep the line wit the CBs, Martin does.

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Whittaker''s first game for quite some time so of course it''s perfectly fair to write him off after one game back.

 

Martin has been part of numerous dire performances lately and despite you saying he knows how to mark and keep line we''re still leaking loads of goals and our right back area is regularly targeted by the opposition.

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[quote user="hogesar"]Whittaker was poor today but Martin''s been poor, particularly in the last couple of games, so i can see why he started.[/quote]

Exactly. Martin has had a fairly long run in the team and it hasn''t really done much for us.

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GJP,

i suspect you are correct and the opposition do target our right side, well no surprise there then as thery have a choice of right or left, so I suspect they could come down our right at least, say around 50% of the time!

I do not recall many goals coming from RM being skinned or out of position (other than when having gone up for a corner underi instruction) and even if he is occasionally that is what wingers are paid to do,

RM passes per game surpasses SW''s, as does his pass completion % and accurate long balls.

Re dire performances, at least 11 men have been part of dire performances so why have you singled out RM? If that logic follows then we may as well replace all 11 and play the U21s. Now there''s an idea!!

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[quote user="Ray"] Re dire performances, at least 11 men have been part of dire performances so why have you singled out RM? If that logic follows then we may as well replace all 11 and play the U21s. Now there''s an idea!![/quote]

I haven''t singled Martin out anymore than Whittaker is being singled out.

 

All I''m saying is that if people were being honest they couldn''t really say Martin has been playing so well nobody else deserves a chance.

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GJP,

Possibly he hasn''t been playing so well, although I think he is one of our better/more consistent performers, but given the performances Whitts has put in in his last 5 or 6 games RM would be my choice.

Going back to my original point, who do you think has palyed well consistently enough not to have their selection questioned, if CH''s thinking is as yours, then why hasn''t Becchio or even Loza been given a start for a few ganes?

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[quote user="Ray"] Going back to my original point, who do you think has palyed well consistently enough not to have their selection questioned, if CH''s thinking is as yours, then why hasn''t Becchio or even Loza been given a start for a few ganes?[/quote]
Becchio has apparently been poor in his reserve (U21) outings, according to the canary call host.  Loza didn''t do it in the league 1 whilst out on loan this season. Agree with you on Martin ahead of Whittaker though.

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[quote user="Ray"]GJP, Possibly he hasn''t been playing so well, although I think he is one of our better/more consistent performers, but given the performances Whitts has put in in his last 5 or 6 games RM would be my choice. Going back to my original point, who do you think has palyed well consistently enough not to have their selection questioned, if CH''s thinking is as yours, then why hasn''t Becchio or even Loza been given a start for a few ganes?[/quote]

Not many.

 

Howson, Turner, Ruddy and Olsson are probably the players I would say have most consistently given a good account of themselves.

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[quote user="GJP"]

Howson, Turner, Ruddy and Olsson are probably the players I would say have most consistently given a good account of themselves.

[/quote]
You can add Tetty, Fer and Snodgrass to that list.

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[quote user="Winning 25"][quote user="GJP"]


Howson, Turner, Ruddy and Olsson are probably the players I would say have most consistently given a good account of themselves.

[/quote]


You can add Tetty, Fer and Snodgrass to that list.

[/quote]

Tettey and Fer wouldn''t be too far away for me.

 

Snodgrass would be a bit further away.

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Winning25,

I''ve seen the games and yes. nothing to write home about but then Holty never looked too good in training apparently.

Loza may not have done it in league 1 but he didn''t get too much game time either, he has certainly been playing well, and scoring, for the U21s.

If a manager is going to make wholesale changes, then why not go for the really unexpected, let''s face it Becchio and Loza could do no worse!

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I''m fairly confident in saying that this must be the first time Steven Whittaker has ever been described as a pretty boy.

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So are you guys saying, Howson, Turner, Ruddy, Olsson, Tettey, Fer and Snodgrass are nailed on selections and that we only need to find 4 more and we have a team capable of...of what?

I guess we see individual performances differently, good job we do really or this board would not be needed.

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[quote user="Ray"]So are you guys saying, Howson, Turner, Ruddy, Olsson, Tettey, Fer and Snodgrass are nailed on selections and that we only need to find 4 more and we have a team capable of...of what? I guess we see individual performances differently, good job we do really or this board would not be needed.[/quote]

No.

 

My list was Howson, Turner Ruddy and Olsson.

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[quote user="Ray"]So are you guys saying, Howson, Turner, Ruddy, Olsson, Tettey, Fer and Snodgrass are nailed on selections and that we only need to find 4 more and we have a team capable of...of what?

I guess we see individual performances differently, good job we do really or this board would not be needed.[/quote]
Avoiding relegation!

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GJP,

The question was addressed to you as a group, hence the "you guys" but in hindsight it was a stupid question, as it would mean a group of posters agreeing and we all know that very rarely happens.

So, in your opinion there are seven positions up for grabs, I think I could go as far to say I agree with the number but not necessarily the personnel, not going to get into a debate over the seven positions though as I do need to get some sleep tonight and we have a grand prix at 6.00am.

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[quote user="Ray"]GJP,

The question was addressed to you as a group, hence the "you guys" but in hindsight it was a stupid question, as it would mean a group of posters agreeing and we all know that very rarely happens.

So, in your opinion there are seven positions up for grabs, I think I could go as far to say I agree with the number but not necessarily the personnel, not going to get into a debate over the seven positions though as I do need to get some sleep tonight and we have a grand prix at 6.00am.[/quote]
What do want to promote 7 players from the U21/youth team, into the starting 11. To play the last 8 games of the season whilst we fighting for survival?If you mean to address positions from the starting 11 in the summer. This is still too many. I said 4. A new right back, a central defender. A striker to replace Elmander, preferably one that can play up on his own. A winger/attacking mid.

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You would think these players would be eager to use their chance to cement themselves in the side, yet every single player who came into the side yesterday did little to excite. Something is very wrong.

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Winning 25,

No I don''t, the original point was, who amongst our players had performed consistently well enough to be a nailed on selection, I''m not advocating we make 7 changes. However I am advocating that if the manager is going to make 5 changes in the starting line up that it may be taking a risk somewhere and I would throw Loza in for some game time because as most of us know; the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. So by definition, if we aint getting different results and are essentially doing the same thing over and over then we must be insane! And by we I do of course mean the club and not posters, although.......

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I dont want to see whits starting again. His last few appearances for us have consistently been below martins and made our defence weaker in the process. Yesterday he was weak, indecisive and very poor with the ball. That does not mean I think martin has been performing well or should be a guaranteed starter, it just means he is consistently better than the only real option. Martin maybe a 2 (tom cavendish) but he is outperforming SW. As must buy area come the summer

Of those that can be deemed "undroppable" imo its only ruddy (my clear POTS), olsson (although he and garrido are extremely close for me) & Fer (his absence is noticable every single game). All the other 8 are up for grabs.

Close for me would also be bassong; he has made some errors (who in this season has not??) but his performances are nowhere near as bad as slated.

Snodgrass - last seasons snoddy was a starter; his performances mean he should be rotated as much as redmond, pilks etc. Anger frustration is not enough; poor delivery, not covering back, poor positioning evident yesterday has been a regular feature this season.

Turner - seems to be part of the absence makes him better glasses; he was part of some poor defensive early season games; Yobo brought more since he has been here but the latter better with seb than bennett.

Howson - good but inconsistent; some great games but as with yesterday has long periods where you forget he is on the pitch and he is not contributing as he should - pretty much like our team actually; you cant be anonymous as a cm.

We have a very good XI when they all turn up (see Citeh etc etc etc) this season most have not given their potential.

Another way of looking at is is which players pick themselves through a lack of viable alternatives. If all fit my best 11 looks like

Ruddy

Martin aaa aaa Olsson

Tettey

bbb ccc Fer bbb

ddd

Options in personal order of preference being

a Seb, Yobo, Turner, Bennett

b Redmond, Guitierrez, Pilks, Snoddy, Bennett

c Howson, Wessi

d Ricky, Hooper, Emander

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