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Julian

There is nothing wrong with our strikers

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There is nothing wrong with our strikers. The problem is simple. We do not create the chances for them. 18 months of cautious mediocracy from the manager.

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Good players do not become poor players overnight. I too believe our strikers are good players, but are not allowed to be so. The tactics do not suit them, although I cant really think what kind of striker would do well from our tactics. Holt''s productivity halved when the tactics changed. I know its not simple. But perhaps it is...

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 Oh not more of this stuff.   How many chances against Cardiff?  How many chances against West Ham? How many chances against Man City? How many chances against Spurs. Even at Villa we had some good chances.    Saturday was poor, but to say we haven''t been creating chances generally is a false argument.   Last season it was true, but how far back do you want to go?   This season has been a mixed bag.   Some of you don''t actually appear to watch the games!

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I suggest you go watch Hoopers miss again.
And the other half dozen plus since his last goal. He''s been very poor in front of goal since his flukey finish against Fulham.

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said it before, even rooney and sturridge would struggle to score goals under hughtonits a mentality thing, its score and try and hold on, not score and score more to win, has been since day 1

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It''s a bit of both really. I know even at my level when you don''t get passed the ball for ages and then suddenly someone passes, you''re so suprised it effects you, as it isn''t all natural like it is for the likes of Sturridge this season, or Holt for us under Lambert when you don''t even have to think how you will score, you know.

It was interesting to see the complaints at Spurs own failings this weekend, and Man U''s a couple of weeks ago. They both put in a s**t load of crosses but didn''t score and the crosses were dealt with. I really don''t know why we try and play wide really. We have absolutely no inventiveness or brute force in the middle and it''s costing us. The best players this season right up and down the league aren''t the wide players but the central players. 2 dominant athletic centre backs are starting to become easy to find and any half arsed crosses at this level just get dealt with. Have a look at our defence versus Tottenham.

You watch Liverpool, the likes of Sturridge, Suarez and co all cut through teams through the middle with exciting quick interplay. Even Sterling and Coutinho do that.

Chelseas best has come from Hazard cutting in rather than crosses and linking up with the likes of Oscar to break teams down through the centre. Likewise Southampton mainly came through the middle. Lambert, Lallana and Rodriguez tore us a new one there.

Is it any surprise that people like Carroll and Crouch have mainly struggled this year?

I''d like to see Redmond, Hoolahan and Elmander behind Hooper with Howson and Tettey sitting/ building moves. I reckon that might be our best hope.

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LDC - please explain then how the likes of Hooper would put the chances away for Celtic and RVW for Sporting?  The whole Hughton set-up neglects the attacking aspects of football, it''s all based around defence and the forwards struggle.  I''d love to be privy to the advice and training given to the forwards at NCFC... the only thing I could imagine was where to stand when we''re defending a corner or any attacking set play.

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[quote user="Matt Juler"]LDC - please explain then how the likes of Hooper would put the chances away for Celtic and RVW for Sporting?  The whole Hughton set-up neglects the attacking aspects of football, it''s all based around defence and the forwards struggle.  I''d love to be privy to the advice and training given to the forwards at NCFC... the only thing I could imagine was where to stand when we''re defending a corner or any attacking set play.[/quote]Isn''t it obvious that Scottish and Portuguese is a level below the English Premiership?

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[quote user="morty"]Isn''t it obvious that Scottish and Portuguese is a level below the English Premiership? [/quote]So it''s because of the English Premiership that Hooper''s shot at Southampton went a good couple of yards wide when he''d beaten the last man, and also why RVW''s shot that lead to Snoddy''s goal, but should have been held, had the power of a backpass?  These players have been mentally destroyed by our setup.

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[quote user="Matt Juler"][quote user="morty"]Isn''t it obvious that Scottish and Portuguese is a level below the English Premiership? [/quote]So it''s because of the English Premiership that Hooper''s shot at Southampton went a good couple of yards wide when he''d beaten the last man, and also why RVW''s shot that lead to Snoddy''s goal, but should have been held, had the power of a backpass?  These players have been mentally destroyed by our setup.[/quote]Mentally destroyed, sure[Y]

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The big difference for me between the Lambert era and the Hughton era is that we just do not seem to support the strikers anymore. How many times do we see Hooper or Van Wolfswinkel competing for aimless balls up top on there own with no chance of winning it. It must get very disheartening for the strikers fighting lost causes all afternoon knowing your not going to get a sniff at goal.

Whereas under Lambert the emphasis was to get people in and around Holt and play off him much further up the pitch. We were a real threat and looked like scoring every time we went forward. Pilkington and Hoolahan flourished under these tactics because they enjoyed it.

I believe the players just do not enjoy the tactics that we play now. Too deep, defensive, emphasis on not conceding and not supporting the front men.

Let them have some freedom, attack and express themselves.

At the end of the day its a game about putting the ball in the back of the net more times than your opposition.

If you do not attack then more times than not you will lose, as has been the case for the past two seasons.

Hughton - change the tactics and get players playing off and supporting the strikers. Push the defence and midfield higher up the pitch.

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I would agree that we have no idea if any of our strikers are really good enough because we create almost nothing for them to feed off.

The exception does not disprove the rule.

Given the number of different players that have tried to play forward roles within Hughton teams with little or no success I would suggest it is fair enough to blame the system rather than the individuals.

We neither have world class player in attack that can take the one chance awarded them when it comes or the defenders who can consistently soak up pressure for 90 minutes without making a mistake therefore Hughtons system will not only be flawed and fail it will also be extremely tedious in the process.

Pressure will tell at both ends of the pitch and we never pressurise opponents sufficiently.

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[quote user="KeelansGlove"]Given the number of different players that have tried to play forward roles within Hughton teams with little or no success I would suggest it is fair enough to blame the system rather than the individuals.[/quote]Spot on.Whether it''s been Holt, Morison, Kamara, RVW, Hooper, Becchio, Elmander etc, they''ve ALL struggled for goals and/or form under Hughton despite being able to find the back of the net regularly for other teams (or under a different manager).I''d agree that the SPL and Portuguese leagues aren''t as good as the prem, but don''t forget that Holty managed 15 under Lambert at this level, and halved this return the year after under Hughton. Moro got pretty much double figures under Lambert and did nothing under Hughton, so two players who''d already proven they could score reasonably well at this level suddenly lost all ability in front of goal did they...?I''ll fully admit that on a number of occasions, both RVW and Hooper haven''t looked the best, but I take account of the role they''re being asked to play, the system it''s in and the completely negative approach we have to games, which IMHO mitigates their underperformances to a huge extent.We simply do NOT have bad strikers - we have a manager who completely fails to use them (and others before them) in the most productive manner possibly, and isntead gets them to play in a way which utterly fails to play to their key strengths...

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I think it''s probably a bit of everything.

Portugal and Scotland being weaker - yep, probably. More chances created by Celtic and Sporting and weaker keepers means more opportunities to score and an easier proposition to beat keepers in those divisions than in the prem.

Celtic and Sporting being strong sides in their respective divisions - same as above really, more chances created etc because they''re the best teams - BUT Sporting were midtable for much of last season and RVW was still scoring.

Our tactics - at times we''ve struggled to have any chances at all, even against average sides, and so you would say that the tactics have had an impact at times. But then at other times we''ve had quite a few chances and not been able to convert (Cardiff - most shots in a game for 6 years or something wasn''t it, still didn''t score).

Confidence - playing off all of the above. Hooper and RVW find it hard to adapt, had injuries, maybe become frustrated by lack of opportunities at times, maybe frustrated with their own lack of sharpness (because of lack of chances, injuries and not yet adapting) and therefore losing confidence, leading to a vicious circle.

I do think that, overall, the tactics and general negativity are probably the biggest reasons (and have probably led largely to a lack of sharpness and confidence which has cycled), but at the same time, the forwards haven''t been good enough individually at times either.

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I get the point that we have not been creative enough,  with an over focus on playing through right wing,  slow build up play,  an inability to create through the middle and a lack of players in the opponents pen area to support a too often isolated striker,  with neither striker getting passed the ball to them in the opponents penalty area a far too regular game by game occurrence. (its been my default stances for a couple of seasons) but to exhonerate the strikers from any blame by say there is nothing wrong with the strikers is also wide of the mark.

 

Both hooper and ricky are struggling with confidence and are too similar in style, they both need to run onto a ball and we have not supported that,  the very few chances they have had have not been taken;   their linked up play has been patchy,  as is their ability to hold the ball up to bring teh slow supporting midfield into play.    Rickys has looked lightweight with hooper more solid,  while ricky has looked better in the air than hooper.   Neither defend well from the front with hooper rarely makes a challenge to win the ball back, while ricky at least gets stuck in.   

 

I agree both will improve with better service and exponentially so with a confidence boost a couple of goals would bring,  but both also need to sharpen up several areas of their game.  

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[quote user="lake district canary"] Oh not more of this stuff.   How many chances against Cardiff?  How many chances against West Ham? How many chances against Man City? How many chances against Spurs. Even at Villa we had some good chances.    Saturday was poor, but to say we haven''t been creating chances generally is a false argument.   Last season it was true, but how far back do you want to go?   This season has been a mixed bag.   Some of you don''t actually appear to watch the games!






[/quote]

 

Thats a bit rich coming from you Mr LDC.

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[quote user="Jimbo Canary"]

[quote user="lake district canary"] Oh not more of this stuff.   How many chances against Cardiff?  How many chances against West Ham? How many chances against Man City? How many chances against Spurs. Even at Villa we had some good chances.    Saturday was poor, but to say we haven''t been creating chances generally is a false argument.   Last season it was true, but how far back do you want to go?   This season has been a mixed bag.   Some of you don''t actually appear to watch the games![/quote]

 Thats a bit rich coming from you Mr LDC.[/quote]

The only good thing about you and your posts is your avatar.   Other than that you appear to contribute precious little to any debate.  Reminds me of BW''s Cat.  Now whatever happened to him...................

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[quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="Jimbo Canary"]

[quote user="lake district canary"] Oh not more of this stuff.   How many chances against Cardiff?  How many chances against West Ham? How many chances against Man City? How many chances against Spurs. Even at Villa we had some good chances.    Saturday was poor, but to say we haven''t been creating chances generally is a false argument.   Last season it was true, but how far back do you want to go?   This season has been a mixed bag.   Some of you don''t actually appear to watch the games!
[/quote]

 Thats a bit rich coming from you Mr LDC.[/quote]


The only good thing about you and your posts is your avatar.   Other than that you appear to contribute precious little to any debate.  Reminds me of BW''s Cat.  Now whatever happened to him...................




[/quote]

 

Debate? On here? Where do you think we are? Cambridge University?

 

And who or what was BW''s cat btw?

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I agree with the original poster. There is nothing wrong with our strikers - they could under the right tactics/manager be good premier league players. NCFC have signed these players, whom excelled at their previous clubs, in attacking set-ups, for one simple reason - to score goals like they had been doing at their previous clubs. Unfortunately we are playing an alien style of football that both RVW and Hooper don''t ''click'' with. Watch RVW next time he gets some game time - every time one of our full backs or midfielders get the ball, he is looking for a through ball to run-on-to. The current formation/tactics consists of aimless crosses, to a player who is always going to get muscled off of the ball. RVW''s goals at Sporting came from running on to through balls - the likes of which, Norwich players like Martin seems scared of playing. Chris Hughton has NCFC set up in a very rigid formation, where set tactics are in place, it appears the players are scared to improvise or show any initiative when going forward.Call me pessimistic, but WHEN we get relegated this season, which I have thought since game 5 or so in to this season, players like RVW and maybe Hooper will move on and prove just how awful a tactician Chris Hughton and his merry men are.

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I can''t put a really specific point to it, but for me we just seem to lack conviction. We''re just trying to get a ball into the box, or just trying to get a shot on target; Lambert''s goal shows this in spades with Ry Bennett''s half-attempt to win the initial header.

It may be indicative of a massive lack of confidence or lack of a real leader, but we can only really speculate. I just hope we get it in gear against Sunderland or I''ll be very worried.

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I disagree, RVW is awful. I say we sell him back to a foreign club at end of season. Elmander is awful, Hooper is decent at times but been at fault for a couple of goals we have conceded in the last month or so.

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I disagree with the poster. It should be ''There WAS nothing wrong with our strikers''. Now there certainly is. A massive lack of confidence that comes from not scoring. They must both think they have made bad career mistakes coming to Carrow Road.

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