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norfolkbroadslim

Why does Hughton play inverted wingers?

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Snoddy can cross from either side with his right or left foot. It''s not just Hughton that plays inverted wingers though. Perhaps the best one we ever had was the right footed Hucks and I remember all the fuss when Roeder tried to play him on the right. The thing about these wingers in reality comes from the default position that everything Hoots does must be wrong. The current vogue is for wingers to change sides which Redmond and Snodgrass do for us. I noticed Redmond had that same role for England Under 21s when he was MOM a couple of weeks ago.

 

 

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I guess having a fox in the box, which you would hope that RvW was, having wingers that would cut inside and take a pot shot would leave opportunities for him to feed on the scraps/rebounds possibly?

Trouble is when most of the shots are killing supporters around the country, this isn''t too effective.

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Playing two inverted wingers at the same time doesn''t work unless you are Bayern Munich or Chelsea.

All of our crosses are inswingers, easy for the defenders and keeper, difficult for the strikers. Been a problem all season and the only real threat from crosses has come from Olsson.

Perhaps we could pull it off if we had an attacking right full back with crossing ability.

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Someone tell me why Whittaker isn''t playing right back? This is the man that can almost walk the length of a football pitch and score. All the upset it caused with Rangers at the time, he''s completely off the radar.

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Hucks was usually complemented by Bentley the other side, a traditional wide midfielder. The likes of Ashton and McKenzie still managed to get a few goals as a result.

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That is the idea, your should have your 2 full backs getting past the wingers so when they cut inside their is space on the outside to be exploited.

Unfortunately our crossing, with the exception of Olsson has been poor and we have not taken advantage of this enough.

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"Hucks was usually complemented by Bentley"

Well he wasn''t was he because Bentley was here for one season and Huckerby was here for five seasons.

And pretty sure Bentley was often utilised through the middle in that season, we had to put up with that dodgy Swedish bloke on the right wing, who actually preferred to play on the left.

So there is a good example of where inverted wingers has failed for us in the past! Got us relegated!

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I don''t know - I''ve never heard Hughton asked that question.

Most on here would agree that our biggest problem throughout the season has been the lack of supply to the striker(s), which has not been helped by the inverted winger strategy - also not helped by usually having no creative player (only option probably Hoolahan) in the hole.

But looking around the EPL there are other inverted wingers (or at least AMFs playing wide on their wrong side) who DO manage to avoid the temptation to cut in and blaze over the bar at every opportunity. The likes of Hazard, for example, provide endless dangerous little balls into the box. So perhaps it''s not inverted wingers per se that are the problem, more the tactics they employ?

That''s a point - I wonder if Hazard fancies a spell in Norfolk?

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Hughton''s philosophy is retention of the football, we don''t particularly look to attack at pace. Hence, the other team should have time to gather behind the ball. If you add all that up it makes sense to play with inverted wingers.

Only issue is we can''t retain posession of the ball in dangerous areas of the field, enough.

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Skijumptoes,

Because RM puts in 66.66% more crosses per game than SW, that could be why (2.67/game as opposed to 1.67/game).

Their accuracy is comparable with RM slightly higher, so by definition RM puts in more accurate crosses than SW.

Source = whoscored.com

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[quote user="Skijumptoes"]Someone tell me why Whittaker isn''t playing right back? This is the man that can almost walk the length of a football pitch and score. All the upset it caused with Rangers at the time, he''s completely off the radar.[/quote]

 

I thought he played right back (poorly) at Southampton.

 

 

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Inverted wingers are not our problem.   Tactically they work well but quality of delivery is key.    Its been poor - with no evidence that uninverted wingers crossing has been any better.

 

Get the delivery right and the problem goes away.

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[quote user="Europe_93"]Hughton''s philosophy is retention of the football, we don''t particularly look to attack at pace. Hence, the other team should have time to gather behind the ball. If you add all that up it makes sense to play with inverted wingers.

Only issue is we can''t retain posession of the ball in dangerous areas of the field, enough.[/quote]

I''ve heard this said about Hughton a number of times - which makes it even harder to take that we routinely have about 30 - 40 % possession in games.

This is in no way a scoff at your post by the way.

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The reason why you normally play inverted wingers are for defensive reason. The play is always on your preferred side when trying to get the ball back.

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Skijumptoes,

You asked the question mate and you were given a definitive answer, if you don''t like the answer don''t ask the question!

Our FB''s aren''t there to score, although I''m not sure our forwards are either at the moment, they are their to defend and provide crosses, if they do score then great but that is not what they are selected for Although I accept SW scoring ratio for NCFC is higher than RM''s and in his Rangers days he scored 11 of his 19 goals in one season and you do have to take a look at the opposition to put that in perspective.

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]

[quote user="Skijumptoes"]Someone tell me why Whittaker isn''t playing right back? This is the man that can almost walk the length of a football pitch and score. All the upset it caused with Rangers at the time, he''s completely off the radar.[/quote]

 

I thought he played right back (poorly) at Southampton.

 

 

[/quote]
Very very very poorly.

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[quote user="Gingerpele"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

[quote user="Skijumptoes"]Someone tell me why Whittaker isn''t playing right back? This is the man that can almost walk the length of a football pitch and score. All the upset it caused with Rangers at the time, he''s completely off the radar.[/quote]

 

I thought he played right back (poorly) at Southampton.

 

 

[/quote]


Very very very poorly.

[/quote]

 

Well that''s Houghton''s fault for leaving him out in the cold to get rusty.

 

[:|]

 

 

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nutty nigel wrote the following post at 19/03/2014 1:08 PM:

Snoddy can cross from either side with his right or left foot. It''s not

just Hughton that plays inverted wingers though. Perhaps the best one we

ever had was the right footed Hucks
and I remember all the fuss when

Roeder tried to play him on the right. The thing about these wingers in

reality comes from the default position that everything Hoots does must

be wrong. The current vogue is for wingers to change sides which Redmond

and Snodgrass do for us
. I noticed Redmond had that same role for

England Under 21s when he was MOM a couple of weeks ago.
Nutty - Make no mistake, Robert Snodgrass is no Darren Huckerby. Unfortunately the manager seems to want to play Snodgrass come what may and this has meant accommodating him and the inverted winger system at times this season when neither were clearly not the best for the team.Unfortunately I would love to see Redmond and Snodgrass change sides more often but in reality it is only for a very small amount of the 90 minutes.Redmond scored and was MOM against Wales Under 21s. The defence he played against was from Derby County (on loan at Chesterfield), an 18 year old from Cardiff City, Swansea City and Crawley Town. Hardly the same as a Premiership defence.

El Convento wrote the following post at 19/03/2014 12:57 PM:

I don''t know - I''ve never heard Hughton asked that question.

Most on here would agree that our biggest problem throughout the

season has been the lack of supply to the striker(s), which has not been

helped by the inverted winger strategy - also not helped by usually

having no creative player (only option probably Hoolahan) in the hole.

But looking around the EPL there are other inverted wingers (or at

least AMFs playing wide on their wrong side) who DO manage to avoid the

temptation to cut in and blaze over the bar at every opportunity. The

likes of Hazard, for example, provide endless dangerous little balls

into the box. So perhaps it''s not inverted wingers per se that are the

problem, more the tactics they employ?

That''s a point - I wonder if Hazard fancies a spell in Norfolk?El Convento - Yes there are a few inverted wingers but they are now fewer as was the case at Spurs who, after spending around £80M and £26M on one striker found the system didn''t work. It cost the manager (AVB) his job and made a flop out of a £26M striker. Strange that .... an expensive striker playing in a system with inverted wingers fails to come up with the goods ....... where have I heard that before?

trueyellow wrote the following post at 19/03/2014 12:47 PM:

That is the idea, your should have your 2 full backs getting past the

wingers so when they cut inside their is space on the outside to be

exploited.

Unfortunately our crossing, with the exception of Olsson has been poor and we have not taken advantage of this enough.

Trueyellow - the most dangerous place to have space is in the penalty area. With inverted wingers the opposition full backs are also dragged into the penalty area. Because of the slowness of the attacks opposition midfielders defend around the penalty area. As a result there is no space for our midfield to play balls through to attackers and there is no space for our expensive strikers to show why they are expensive strikers. Crosses that are thrown into the box if an overlapping fullback cannot be found are delivered either with the ''wrong'' foot, which is easy to defend against, or with the weaker foot which usually lacks quality. We rarely attack the goal line although I can remember a few good goals coming from this, most recently a good run by Hooper to pull a ball back for Snodgrass to score at Villa.I would imagine the quality defenders in the Premiership would much rather play against a team playing inverted wingers than a team with wide men hitting the goal line, stretching their defence, and getting in telling crosses ....... just as would all defenders in all levels of football!

Europe_93 wrote the following post at 19/03/2014 12:58 PM:

Hughton''s philosophy is retention of the football, we don''t

particularly look to attack at pace. Hence, the other team should have

time to gather behind the ball. If you add all that up it makes sense

to play with inverted wingers.

Only issue is we can''t retain posession of the ball in dangerous areas of the field, enough.

Europe - I''m sorry that lost me completely - you will have to explain that ''sense'' to me!

skippdogg wrote the following post at 19/03/2014 1:20 PM:

struggle to think of any teams that don''t play inverted wingers.Umm ...... there is a massive difference between wingers who on occasions come inside to teams that are set out that way. I would suggest most teams play with conventional wingers who attack wide, creating space for their team mates and not playing a narrow attack that stiffles attacking space.

 

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[quote user="Yellow Wall"]

nutty nigel wrote the following post at 19/03/2014 1:08 PM:

Snoddy can

cross from either side with his right or left foot. It''s not just Hughton that

plays inverted wingers though. Perhaps the best one we ever

had was the right footed Hucks
and I remember all the fuss when Roeder

tried to play him on the right. The thing about these wingers in reality comes

from the default position that everything Hoots does must be wrong. The current

vogue is for wingers to change sides which Redmond and

Snodgrass do for us
. I noticed

Redmond had that same role for
England Under 21s when he was MOM a couple

of weeks ago.
Nutty - Make no mistake, Robert Snodgrass is no

Darren Huckerby. Unfortunately the manager seems to want to play Snodgrass come

what may and this has meant accommodating him and the inverted winger system at

times this season when neither were clearly not the best for the

team.Unfortunately I would love to see Redmond and Snodgrass change sides

more often but in reality it is only for a very small amount of the 90

minutes.Redmond scored and was MOM against Wales Under 21s. The defence he

played against was from Derby County (on loan at Chesterfield), an 18 year old

from Cardiff City, Swansea City and Crawley Town. Hardly the same as a

Premiership defence.

  [/quote]
 
I wasn''t comparing Snoddy to Hucks. Just pointing out that they both had a strong right foot and played on the left. You see them changing sides less often than I do which doesn''t surprise me. In fact until it was pointed out to you you didn''t see it at all. [:P]
 
"Right lads, It''s only Wales and they''ve got rubbish defenders so we''ll get Reddez to play on the left to even it up a bit......."
 
[;)]
 
 

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[quote user="Ray"]Skijumptoes,

You asked the question mate and you were given a definitive answer, if you don''t like the answer don''t ask the question![/quote]
Hey, wasn''t scoffing at you and didn''t intend to come across in that way so apologies, was making a light-hearded jab at Trollope, as no doubt they work from stats very similar to that and form a somewhat one-dimensional view on performances.  I thought that''s what you were tongue-in-cheek implying why he''d been left out.
But rather you were actually implying, without the tongue-in-cheek bit! ;)
However, my personal view would be to move Russ in to CB and have Whittaker, a RB by trade, who can also attack deep from that position.  Everyone seems to think RB is a problem but i feel that SW just hasn''t had a fair crack at it recently, if i look back at recent history for us, i can see RM having superhuman like defensive moments at CB - he''s one player we''ve got who would die for the cause on that field (In relative terms).  And likewise SW has put in some really good performances in the past to be ignored for long periods.
People saying he wasn''t great in the Southampton game, i could point the finger at most of our squad who''ve had several poor games this season.
Think the full backs do an important job for our wide players, so i wouldn''t say it''s all/just about defending and putting the odd cross in.

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Skijumptoes,

OK, got it now.

I do like to see RM play at CB too, he does a very good job there for Scotland and like you I think people see a problem at RB which doesn''t really exist, it seems to have become the vogue. What they sometimes forget is that whoever plays RB is normally supporting and being supported by Snoddy and whilst I don''t doubt his effort, I think his defensive positioning sometimes leaves a bit to be desired, besides which he goes missing quite a bit when he''s standing with hands on hips moaning or on the deck, although this aspect of his game does seem to be diminishing a little - thank goodness.

There is also a RB in the U21''s I quite like the look of too, Ewan McNeil, he''s been injurd for about 10 weeks but got some time yesterday against Charlton. Whether he will make it here we shall see.

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Yellow Wall wrote the following post at 19/03/2014 2:11 PM:

El Convento - Yes there are a few inverted wingers but they are now fewer as was the case at Spurs who, after spending around £80M and £26M on one striker found the system didn''t work. It cost the manager (AVB) his job and made a flop out of a £26M striker. Strange that .... an expensive striker playing in a system with inverted wingers fails to come up with the goods ....... where have I heard that before?

Very interesting point - I''ve often wondered whether Soldado was suffering from the same inverted winger problems as RvW. Although in his case things haven''t improved much since Sherwood has repopulated the Spurs left-side with left footers.

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Nutty - Yes I had noticed they change wings occasionally but I think Snoddy spends less time on the left than you believe. I have also noticed his right foot isn''t that strong and that he played on the right ... unlike Hucks.

Warren - If you think Snodgrass is the best wide player at the club by a mile we obviously look for differing qualities.

El Covento - I''m afraid Soldado''s confidence seems to be shot ................ another similar situation as our own player''s? And I believe it is Hooper as well as RvW who has suffered.

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