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MancCanary

"Sacking" McNally is ridiculous

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Now that the board have decided to gamble on sticking with Hughton rather than changing manager (which, let''s face it, is a 50/50 gamble in terms of result), some fans are switching targets from Hughton and on to McNally.

This is ridiculous, spoilt, and very short-sighted behaviour, because..

When we were at rock-bottom, after the 7-1 defeat at the start of the League 1 season, what''s the most we were hoping for for the next few years? Promotion to the Championship. And were we even confident of that happening at the first attempt, or even within 2-3 years? No. All the moaners and doom-mongers thought we''d be League 1 for years, or even go bust.

But - McNally sacked Gunn, hired Lambert, and we got promoted at the first attempt.

The board stated that their 5 year plan was to achieve this within 1-2 years, then a couple of seasons in the championship, followed by a couple of seasons yo-yo-ing between Prem & Championship.

But again, once we got to the Championship, how many of us really thought in our wildest dreams we''d go straight up again?

But we did. Then, how many of us really expected us to stay in the premiership at the first attempt? And then again the 2nd season? We didn''t even yo-yo.

So, before you chastise McNally for "doing very well out of us" or "ensuring relegation by not sacking Hughton" - remember how far ahead of expectations we actually are, and how much faster we achieved it all than the board told us we could expect.

In reality, we''d be glad to be back in the championship after 1 or 2 seasons in league 1, and we''d probably be satisfied with 2 or 3 seasons chasing promotion in the Championship. But 2 mid-table finishes (just) in the Premiership has turned half our fans into short-sighted, spoilt kids.

In reality - if we go down this season, we''re still ahead of McNally and the board''s 5 year plan - we''re still in a better position that we could have dreamt of after that 7-1 defeat. And McNally will have achieved 2 promotions, and 1 relegation - that makes him 1 up in my book, and us in a better situation for having him.

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there is about 10 idiots that want him gone, no one else, not even worth talkin about

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Agreed. Him and Bowkett were almost as important to our revival as Lambert, Holt and Hoolahan. Lambert was determined to leave at the first opportunity (Remember Burnley and West Ham?) they can''t be blamed for that. Not many managers would have kept us up last season as painful as it was to watch so Hughton was initially the right call. Holt like Lambert was determined to go back up north, again they did the best they could possibly do and they''ve kept Hoolahan for now. Leaving Hughton in charge too long was their first real mistake but I still think we have some of the most competent people running our club in English football! Talk of sacking them is unbelievable

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I agree Darth.

And in case anyone is confused - I want Hughton out. But if this season ends with relegation, I will allow McNally and the board this one failure after everything they achieved in such little time. If we then stagnate in the Championship and more mistakes are made, then yes, the board would have to look at themselves.

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Errrr, it was a seven year plan!

And before shouting your mouth off and bemoaning others, go speak to the man yourself, like some have, listen to what he says, and then come back and repost!

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[quote user="City 2nd"]Errrr, it was a seven year plan!

And before shouting your mouth off and bemoaning others, go speak to the man yourself, like some have, listen to what he says, and then come back and repost![/quote]

Your only comment on my post is the pedantic correction of 5 year plan to 7? Wow. So if it was 7 years that they originally set out to become a stable Premiership team within, doesn''t that make what they achieved in just 3 even more impressive?

Not quite sure what you mean by "go and speak to the man yourself" - Are you suggesting McNally has spoken to you personally to suggest that he is incompetent and should be fired? Otherwise, I''m not sure what you have heard him say that I haven''t that determines whether he should be sacked or not. Could you enlighten me please?

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MancCanary wrote the following post:

Not quite sure what you mean by "go and speak to the man yourself" - Are you suggesting McNally has spoken to you personally to suggest that he is incompetent and should be fired? Otherwise, I''m not sure what you have heard him say that I haven''t that determines whether he should be sacked or not. Could you enlighten me please?

Yes I have spoken to him personally on Friday 7th February at 2pm at his invitation at CR. So yes, I have heard him say things that you have not.

No he did not suggest he was incompetent, and nor did he say he would be fired and nor did I suggest either during my conversation.

But what I can assure you of is that he is a very proud man, he understand completely exactly how the majority of supporters feel, and why that is, and I will say to some extent he does not disagree with them.

He is fully aware that failure is not an option, and could have serious repercussions for many staff at CR.

Come the end of the season, up or down as a result of my conversation I fully expect a review and changes to be made.

I hope that satisfies your curiosity.

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[quote user="City 2nd"]MancCanary wrote the following post:

Not quite sure what you mean by "go and speak to the man yourself" - Are you suggesting McNally has spoken to you personally to suggest that he is incompetent and should be fired? Otherwise, I''m not sure what you have heard him say that I haven''t that determines whether he should be sacked or not. Could you enlighten me please?

Yes I have spoken to him personally on Friday 7th February at 2pm at his invitation at CR. So yes, I have heard him say things that you have not.

No he did not suggest he was incompetent, and nor did he say he would be fired and nor did I suggest either during my conversation.

But what I can assure you of is that he is a very proud man, he understand completely exactly how the majority of supporters feel, and why that is, and I will say to some extent he does not disagree with them.

He is fully aware that failure is not an option, and could have serious repercussions for many staff at CR.

Come the end of the season, up or down as a result of my conversation I fully expect a review and changes to be made.

I hope that satisfies your curiosity.[/quote]To be clear about "changes to be made". What you have said very clearly on quite a few occasions since this meeting with McNally is that - based on the conversation - you expect Hughton to be sacked in the summer. In other words, McNally led you to believe that.

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PurpleCanary wrote the following post

To be clear about "changes to be made". What you have said very clearly on quite a few occasions since this meeting with McNally is that - based on the conversation - you expect Hughton to be sacked in the summer. In other words, McNally led you to believe that.

Yes, based on our conversation I formed my OWN opinion that Mr Hughton will be relieved of his duties come the summer when a review takes place regarding footballing matters, and it appeared, in my opinion that it is very very unlikely he would be relieved of those duties until that review takes place.

The conversation could similarly have led me to form an opinion that our manager would see his contract through to its end. It didn''t!

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City2nd - Thanks, that does satisfy my curiously somewhat. I thought you were simply another pinkun poster claiming to be in the know, but obviously you are lucky to have been privy to the proverbial horses mouth!

What does confuse is your aggressive reply to my initial post, especially seeing as I was defending McNally. Or was that second part of your post aimed at the idiots calling for McNally''s head?

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[quote user="City 2nd"]PurpleCanary wrote the following post

To be clear about "changes to be made". What you have said very clearly on quite a few occasions since this meeting with McNally is that - based on the conversation - you expect Hughton to be sacked in the summer. In other words, McNally led you to believe that.

Yes, based on our conversation I formed my OWN opinion that Mr Hughton will be relieved of his duties come the summer when a review takes place regarding footballing matters, and it appeared, in my opinion that it is very very unlikely he would be relieved of those duties until that review takes place.

The conversation could similarly have led me to form an opinion that our manager would see his contract through to its end. It didn''t![/quote]Thanks for that. You won''t mind if I remain sceptical/dubious that McNally would have been so incautious as to give you the clear steer he would have to have done for you to be so sure Hughton will be sacked in the summer no matter what.

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PurpleCanary wrote the following post at 2014-03-19 11:48 AM:

City 2nd wrote:

PurpleCanary wrote the following post To be clear about "changes to be made". What you have said very clearly on quite a few occasions since this meeting with McNally is that - based on the conversation - you expect Hughton to be sacked in the summer. In other words, McNally led you to believe that. Yes, based on our conversation I formed my OWN opinion that Mr Hughton will be relieved of his duties come the summer when a review takes place regarding footballing matters, and it appeared, in my opinion that it is very very unlikely he would be relieved of those duties until that review takes place. The conversation could similarly have led me to form an opinion that our manager would see his contract through to its end. It didn''t!

Thanks for that. You won''t mind if I remain sceptical/dubious that McNally would have been so incautious as to give you the clear steer he would have to have done for you to be so sure Hughton will be sacked in the summer no matter what.

My friend you do not have to believe me at all. I asked questions of the club based on my personal concerns regarding the future, and as to whether I should renew my season ticket along with other family members in respect of the CEO indication that NCFC were engaged in the entertainment business, and it was results driven.

The meeting was amicable, I did not go there to make any demands, I didn''t even mention the sack or dismissal of anyone, but it''s fair to say I sit in the Hughton out camp because personally I have not been entertained by the type of football our current team play, and their lack of achieving positive results over the last two years.

Of course the CEO was cautious, and so was I, but as a result of our conversation I decided to renew my season ticket and yes, I formed the opinion as a result of that conversation that we would very likely see changes come the summer in the management set up in an effort to get back to the entertaining football this club had been renowned for for years, bringing with it the desired improvement in results.

Other matters were discussed such as finances, msnagers going years back, matches, cup wins, losses and the FA youth cup and youth policy, football across the globe in the future, and the possibility of a European super league among other things.

I was asked, if changes were made, who I though would make a good manager for us. I named two individuals, but also stated that I did not think it was wise to change now, mid season.

But as I say, you don''t have to believe me, you can remain sceptical and dubious, I shared the information because of its interest to NCFC supporters.

And if the current boss turned it around, and delivered not just what I want, but what the board want, I would be delighted. I do not however see that happening.

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[quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="City 2nd"]PurpleCanary wrote the following post

To be clear about "changes to be made". What you have said very clearly on quite a few occasions since this meeting with McNally is that - based on the conversation - you expect Hughton to be sacked in the summer. In other words, McNally led you to believe that.

Yes, based on our conversation I formed my OWN opinion that Mr Hughton will be relieved of his duties come the summer when a review takes place regarding footballing matters, and it appeared, in my opinion that it is very very unlikely he would be relieved of those duties until that review takes place.

The conversation could similarly have led me to form an opinion that our manager would see his contract through to its end. It didn''t![/quote]Thanks for that. You won''t mind if I remain sceptical/dubious that McNally would have been so incautious as to give you the clear steer he would have to have done for you to be so sure Hughton will be sacked in the summer no matter what.[/quote]

To be fair Purple - City 2nd did say based on the conversation he formed his own opinion - so you or someone else could well form a different opinion following the same conversation.

City 2nd - I''m still confused as to your initial reply to me post though..

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[quote user="City 2nd"]PurpleCanary wrote the following post at 2014-03-19 11:48 AM:

City 2nd wrote:

PurpleCanary wrote the following post To be clear about "changes to be made". What you have said very clearly on quite a few occasions since this meeting with McNally is that - based on the conversation - you expect Hughton to be sacked in the summer. In other words, McNally led you to believe that. Yes, based on our conversation I formed my OWN opinion that Mr Hughton will be relieved of his duties come the summer when a review takes place regarding footballing matters, and it appeared, in my opinion that it is very very unlikely he would be relieved of those duties until that review takes place. The conversation could similarly have led me to form an opinion that our manager would see his contract through to its end. It didn''t!

Thanks for that. You won''t mind if I remain sceptical/dubious that McNally would have been so incautious as to give you the clear steer he would have to have done for you to be so sure Hughton will be sacked in the summer no matter what.

My friend you do not have to believe me at all.
I asked questions of the club based on my personal concerns regarding the future, and as to whether I should renew my season ticket along with other family members in respect of the CEO indication that NCFC were engaged in the entertainment business, and it was results driven.

The meeting was amicable, I did not go there to make any demands, I didn''t even mention the sack or dismissal of anyone, but it''s fair to say I sit in the Hughton out camp because personally I have not been entertained by the type of football our current team play, and their lack of achieving positive results over the last two years.

Of course the CEO was cautious, and so was I, but as a result of our conversation I decided to renew my season ticket and yes, I formed the opinion as a result of that conversation that we would very likely see changes come the summer in the management set up in an effort to get back to the entertaining football this club had been renowned for for years, bringing with it the desired improvement in results.

Other matters were discussed such as finances, msnagers going years back, matches, cup wins, losses and the FA youth cup and youth policy, football across the globe in the future, and the possibility of a European super league among other things.

I was asked, if changes were made, who I though would make a good manager for us. I named two individuals, but also stated that I did not think it was wise to change now, mid season.

But as I say, you don''t have to believe me, you can remain sceptical and dubious, I shared the information because of its interest to NCFC supporters.

And if the current boss turned it around, and delivered not just what I want, but what the board want, I would be delighted. I do not however see that happening.[/quote]I think you slightly misunderstand. I am not doubting that you had a meeting with McNally, or that the question of the manager was discussed.The point is that on several occasions since then you have reassured fans, on the basis of the discussion, that Hughton will be sacked in the summer no matter what. You have been unequivocal about that.What I am doubting is that McNally would have been so unusually candid with you on such a sensitive subject for you to be remotely sure about that. Why would the CEO drop his guard in such a fashion to a fan?What seems more likely to me is that McNally made some general comments about change in the summer and you have jumped to far too firm a conclusion.

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I read it as City 2nd has formed an opinion based on what he discussed. I don''t think he''s claimed it to be anything more than a personal opinion. I don''t know why you are trying to push his buttons PC.

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[quote user="Rock The Boat"]I read it as City 2nd has formed an opinion based on what he discussed. I don''t think he''s claimed it to be anything more than a personal opinion. I don''t know why you are trying to push his buttons PC.[/quote]

City 2nd  on more than one occasion has pushed a line that he has been assured that "Hughton will  be gone".  It is only under being questioned about it does it emerge that it is just an opinion.  We all put our opinions out there, sometimes going too far, but if you are going to claim something, you have to be able to back it up.  

Everything McNally says is interpreted this way or that.   Most of the time he is just saying things that are common knowledge - it is other people who put their own  meanings to his utterances, depending on what they want to hear.   Even in his interview the other week, he said nothing that gave anything away, yet people still tried to twist what he said to suit what they wanted to hear. 

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[quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="Rock The Boat"]I read it as City 2nd has formed an opinion based on what he discussed. I don''t think he''s claimed it to be anything more than a personal opinion. I don''t know why you are trying to push his buttons PC.[/quote]

City 2nd  on more than one occasion has pushed a line that he has been assured that "Hughton will  be gone".  It is only under being questioned about it does it emerge that it is just an opinion.  We all put our opinions out there, sometimes going too far, but if you are going to claim something, you have to be able to back it up.  

Everything McNally says is interpreted this way or that.   Most of the time he is just saying things that are common knowledge - it is other people who put their own  meanings to his utterances, depending on what they want to hear.   Even in his interview the other week, he said nothing that gave anything away, yet people still tried to twist what he said to suit what they wanted to hear. 

[/quote]ldc has got this roughly right. City 2nd did originally say that a meeting with a senior (then unnamed) figure at Carrow Road had convinced him Hughton would be sacked in the summer even if we stayed up. To be fair, City 2nd didn''t claim he''d received an assurance, but - as an anti-Hughtonist - he did say he had decided after all to renew his season ticket because of what he had been told at the meeting.My point is still that I don''t believe McNally would have been so candid that City 2nd could possibly have been justified in deciding that Hughton would be sacked, which is what he afterwards said.

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[quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="Rock The Boat"]I read it as City 2nd has formed an opinion based on what he discussed. I don''t think he''s claimed it to be anything more than a personal opinion. I don''t know why you are trying to push his buttons PC.[/quote]City 2nd  on more than one occasion has pushed a line that he has been assured that "Hughton will  be gone".  It is only under being questioned about it does it emerge that it is just an opinion.  We all put our opinions out there, sometimes going too far, but if you are going to claim something, you have to be able to back it up.   Everything McNally says is interpreted this way or that.   Most of the time he is just saying things that are common knowledge - it is other people who put their own  meanings to his utterances, depending on what they want to hear.   Even in his interview the other week, he said nothing that gave anything away, yet people still tried to twist what he said to suit what they wanted to hear.  [/quote]ldc has got this roughly right. City 2nd did originally say that a meeting with a senior (then unnamed) figure at Carrow Road had convinced him Hughton would be sacked in the summer even if we stayed up. To be fair, City 2nd didn''t claim he''d received an assurance, but - as an anti-Hughtonist - he did say he had decided after all to renew his season ticket because of what he had been told at the meeting.My point is still that I don''t believe McNally would have been so candid that City 2nd could possibly have been justified in deciding that Hughton would be sacked, which is what he afterwards said.[/quote]

He did this a few weeks ago - and got quite nasty when I pushed him on it, which is why I joined in on this discussion.  People are quick to jump in when they think they are privy to some great knowledge - but the truth is often the case that they have either misheard, misunderstood or just misinterpreted what has been said to them.      Journo''s do it all the time - its part of their job description.........

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Interesting comments City 2nd, I would be interested to hear whom the 2 potential managers were that you suggested to Mr M, and your reasons why, cheers.

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Btw, I''m personally a big David McNally fan - he''s there to make the big decisions and overall I think he''s done a great job at this club over the years, his presence here has always filled me with confidence that we have good people at the top whom genuinely care about this football club. I''m very confident he''ll get whatever decisions needed correct in the summer too. To talk of him being sacked I think''s one of the most absurd things I''ve ever read on this message board, and let''s face it, there''s certainly been a few since it''s inception ;)

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lake district canary wrote the following post at 2014-03-19 3:59

City 2nd on more than one occasion has pushed a line that he has been assured that "Hughton will be gone".

________\\

Firstly LDC I DID NOT say that I was assured Hughton would be gone - that is your take, your opinion AND YOUR ASSUMPTION from my post - no one, whomever, whatever walk of life they are from, would give an assurance of such magnitude. I stated that as a result of the conversation I believe Hughton will be relieved of his position come the end of the season, and I still believe he will, and nothing that was said makes me think otherwise.

_________

Everything McNally says is interpreted this way or that. Most of the time he is just saying things that are common knowledge - it is other people who put their own meanings to his utterances, depending on what they want to hear. Even in his interview the other week, he said nothing that gave anything away, yet people still tried to twist what he said to suit what they wanted to hear.

___________

Secondly, of course everything the CEO days is interpreted this way or that, that is how one forms an opinion from what ANYONE says. As for things he states being common knowledge - well if it has been reported in the media, of course it''s common knowledge. That''s why it''s done, so it becomes common knowledge,nthat''s what the individual wants, and that''s why he puts it out there.

However, certain things that have been attributed in the media, attributed to the CEO, are not correct, I know, because he said so.

And once again, as you simply do not seem to grasp it, and as previously stated by me, of course he didn''t give anything away, I didn''t expect him too, and I didn''t ask that of him. I formed my opinion on the conversation I had. Purely that.

And for the record, it is also my opinion that Neil Lennon could become our next manager, and no that isn''t one of the names I gave when asked who I thought could be good for our club.

But that, my friend, should not be seen as an ASSURANCE, unless YOU interpret it that way.

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[quote user="City 2nd"]Of course he didn''t give anything away, I didn''t expect him too, and I didn''t ask that of him. I formed my opinion on the conversation I had. Purely that.[/quote]City 2nd, I really really really don''t want to prolong this, but that is the problem. If McNally (quite rightly) gave nothing away then there was nothing on which you could base your assurance to fans that you were certain, following your conversation, that Hughton would be sacked in the summer.

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McNally is the last person we need to leave if we get relegated, we will need him and the current Board more than ever. Their big mistake, if it proves to be one, is showing too much loyalty. I don''t agree with them sticking with Hughton, but they see whatever is going on behind the scenes so are better placed to judge than I who simply sees what is on offer on the pitch. I just hope the loyalty is not arising because there is any personal capital at stake from Hughton being McNally''s choice.

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PurpleCanary wrote the following post at 2014-03-19 8:54 PM:

City 2nd wrote:

Of course he didn''t give anything away, I didn''t expect him too, and I didn''t ask that of him. I formed my opinion on the conversation I had. Purely that.

City 2nd, I really really really don''t want to prolong this, but that is the problem. If McNally (quite rightly) gave nothing away then there was nothing on which you could base your assurance to fans that you were certain, following your conversation, that Hughton would be sacked in the summer.

Sorry PC, and I do not wish to prolong it, but just how can you say that - you were not privy to the conversation at all. Of course I can base my opinion on what was said, because I know exactly what was said and what I was told because I was there. Your argument it totally futile. What would be the point in accepting the invitation I did if it was not going to answer the relevance of the question I asked and assist me in coming to a decision between renewing my ST or not renewing it! That''s why I asked it in the first place. And similarly YOU have no idea the questions I put to him (some from other persons who knew of my invitation) and the answers he gave.

Have you ever actually had to interview another person with a view to making a decision say in your workplace, in an attempt to get to the truth in say a law matter, a future employee, have you eve sat on a jury where a decision is expected from you on the evidence you here?

Well I have, and the same applies, I base my decision and opinion on what I was told and learnt on that day, and as I said, I do not care at all that you have a problem with it!

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[quote user="City 2nd"]PurpleCanary wrote the following post at 2014-03-19 8:54 PM:

City 2nd wrote:

Of course he didn''t give anything away, I didn''t expect him too, and I didn''t ask that of him. I formed my opinion on the conversation I had. Purely that.

City 2nd, I really really really don''t want to prolong this, but that is the problem. If McNally (quite rightly) gave nothing away then there was nothing on which you could base your assurance to fans that you were certain, following your conversation, that Hughton would be sacked in the summer.

Sorry PC, and I do not wish to prolong it, but just how can you say that - you were not privy to the conversation at all. Of course I can base my opinion on what was said, because I know exactly what was said and what I was told because I was there. Your argument it totally futile. What would be the point in accepting the invitation I did if it was not going to answer the relevance of the question I asked and assist me in coming to a decision between renewing my ST or not renewing it! That''s why I asked it in the first place. And similarly YOU have no idea the questions I put to him (some from other persons who knew of my invitation) and the answers he gave.

Have you ever actually had to interview another person with a view to making a decision say in your workplace, in an attempt to get to the truth in say a law matter, a future employee, have you eve sat on a jury where a decision is expected from you on the evidence you here?

Well I have, and the same applies, I base my decision and opinion on what I was told and learnt on that day,
[/quote]I have done all of those things (apart from jury service) and I have even had several long conversations with one or more senior people in football to try to get at the truth of something. Usually successfully. And in every case I formed my decision or opinion based on the hard facts I was told. In other words based on what information was given away by the people I was talking to.Now for you to come on here after meeting McNally and tell posters you were certain Hughton would be sacked in the summer (which is what you did) can only have come about in two ways.Either - which I doubt and you said didn''t happen - McNally did give away hard information about Hughton''s future. Or McNally limited himself to vague comments and assurances and certainly didn''t reveal what might be happening to Hughton but you either read too much into those warm words or decided when you posted here to overplay your hand for effect.

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OK P.C. you know best, I''ll bow to your better knowledge. You were the obvious fly on the wall.

And for the record I was not trying to get at the TRUTH of ANYTHING. I asked a question so that I could make a DECISION !

You obviously cannot recognise the difference, which does not surprise me one iota!

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