Daniel Brigham 0 Posted March 28, 2014 (Apologies that there''s already a thread on this. Wrote this before I realised ...)West Ham fans booed Sam Allardyce despite almost guaranteeing their Premier League status with a win over Hull. Daniel Brigham says it could be a turning point for football - and David McNally will have taken note. It''s a surprise it took so long. Three years into Sam Allardyce''s job as West Ham''s soul-sucker-in-chief, their fans have started booing him even when they win at home. I’m not a fan of booing. The only time I''ve done so at a football match was at Ipswich''s John Wark. I was around 13 and didn''t really understand why he was being booed, but it seemed appropriate to join in and, let''s face it, he probably deserved it for that moustache. But I''ve always thought booing your own team at football matches was absurd, like trying to motivate someone by repeatedly telling them they are useless, smell badly and will never amount to anything in life ever.It doesn''t help the players, it doesn''t help the atmosphere and, well, it''s just a bit childish isn''t it. Despite this, I laughed when I read that West Ham fans had booed after their midweek game against Hull. They had just won to arrest a slide of three successive defeats, beating a team above them in the table and practically securing their Premier League safety in the process. But still the boos mingled with the bubbles at Upton Park. So why did I laugh? Mainly because the booing was directed at Allardyce, football''s most charmless man (and he definitely knows his Claret from his Beaujolais). Also because there is something almost noble about booing your team when they''ve won rather than when they''ve lost; it''s never nice kicking someone when they''re down. Allardyce appeared momentarily stunned, before rather foolishly cupping his hand to his ear in defiance. But it shouldn''t have come as a surprise. The fans have never sung his name, preferring instead to belt out ''West Ham''s Claret and Blue Army'' rather than inserting Allardyce''s name into the chant. Perhaps their fans are ungrateful. Playing nice football got them relegated, and they booed then too. Maybe they should just celebrate being in the glitzy, all-singing, all-dancing Premier League. It''s just that, at the moment, it must feel like they''re wearing corduroys and a tank top to a beach party. They must dread the thought of having to watch Samball at the Olympic Stadium, where West Ham are already threatening to be the dullest thing to happen to an iconic British venue since Coldplay headlined Glastonbury. What makes it worse is that Allardyce likes to posit himself as a tactical genius. After West Ham beat Chelsea in January, Allardyce claimed he had “outwitted” Jose Mourinho. Not only did he prefer to congratulate himself rather than his players but he misunderstood the word ''wit''. There was no wit to the way West Ham played that match or any match. Instead they outstodged Chelsea, outbored and outlumped them. If there was a smidgen of wit, it was the grubby sort that gets you gigs on Yarmouth Pier, recycling anecdotes about mother-in-laws and minorities, desperately hoping for a call from Celebrity Big Brother. At least Tony Pulis, the other British export of meat-and-two-veg football, doesn''t get so defensive about his methods, doesn''t hide behind facts and figures. Allardyce, however, may quickly find himself England''s most successful unemployable manager if Upton Park continues to boo him. His methods clearly work but would any set of fans welcome him now?There was also a significant point to the booing, and it''s one that should be applauded: We''re always told that football is a results business. Well, this was the ultimate expression of fans valuing entertainment overs results. Football chairmen should take note. Undoubtedly, David McNally will have done. There is, it seems, a price to pay for subjecting your fans to entire seasons of anti-tainmnet.This isn''t to say that Norwich are as miserable to watch as West Ham. I was at Upton Park in February to see Norwich outplay them, playing neatly, if at times laboriously, through midfield. Like a bully uninterested in talking, West Ham barely looked interested in stringing any passes together. They just wanted to defend and then punch the corners with long, soulless punts. The worst bit was that in the end, thanks to Norwich''s profligacy, it was effective. (Actually, that wasn''t the worst bit. That was Allardyce telling Norwich they''d be OK if they played like that every game. He may as well have patted Delia on the head and put on a comedy Norfolk accent just to finish off patronising us.)Although Norwich are more adventurous than West Ham, it''s all relative. While Norwich''s game plan appears to have changed since Christmas to play through the middle a touch more – and Bradley Johnson''s absence helped immeasurably in achieving this against Sunderland – McNally will know that many Norwich fans want to see more goals, or at least want to see us attempt to score more goals, especially when we have the players to do this.It’s unlikely Norwich fans would ever boo a win under Hughton. He is far too nice a man, far too willing to accept blame, for that to happen. It would be like kicking a baby panda after the cute little thing had just rolled down a slide. But McNally will have seen those boos at Upton Park – for a team above us in the table – and know that it will only be so long that the majority of Norwich fans will put up with watching a team that averages less than a goal a game. Eventually, as ridiculous as it is, the boo boys always win. Daniel Brigham is features editor of The Cricketer magazine. You can find him on Twitter at @cricketer_dan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nutty nigel 7,528 Posted March 28, 2014 That''s all fine as long as the West Ham fans, and maybe ultimately our fans, don''t boo when the changes they crave have negative consequences as well as positive ones. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TCCANARY 263 Posted March 28, 2014 I don''t think the boo boys always win, they booed SAF at Man Utd and didn''t win, they booed Pardew at NUFC and didn''t win and they booed Curbishley at Charlton are they''ve been losing ever since. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The ghost of Michael Theoklitos 0 Posted March 28, 2014 Fantastic post.But I''ve always thought booing your own team at football matches was absurd, like trying to motivate someone by repeatedly telling them they are useless, smell badly and will never amount to anything in life ever.It doesn''t help the players, it doesn''t help the atmosphere and, well, it''s just a bit childish isn''t it. I 100% agree with this point. Quite often, booers will defend their ''right to boo'' with things like ''I pay my money, I have a right to express myself... blah blah''.I can''t accept that argument. As a paying fan I believe you have a responsibility to help the side as best you can. The best way to do this is get behind them, and creating an atmosphere that players can feed off. As you highlighted above, the worst way to do this is by telling them they''re not good enough. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nutty nigel 7,528 Posted March 28, 2014 But you''re describing a supporter Theo. A paying fan or spectator is something completely different. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lappinitup 629 Posted March 28, 2014 We should all boo the booers. [8-|] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TCCANARY 263 Posted March 28, 2014 I''d rather get down the boozer with the other boozers. [B] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hoolahans Left Foot 0 Posted March 28, 2014 Never had booing under Lambert. Hapless deserves it.Hooton out. Messiah back. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Indy 3,297 Posted March 28, 2014 [quote user="The ghost of Michael Theoklitos"]Fantastic post.But I''ve always thought booing your own team at football matches was absurd, like trying to motivate someone by repeatedly telling them they are useless, smell badly and will never amount to anything in life ever.It doesn''t help the players, it doesn''t help the atmosphere and, well, it''s just a bit childish isn''t it. I 100% agree with this point. Quite often, booers will defend their ''right to boo'' with things like ''I pay my money, I have a right to express myself... blah blah''.I can''t accept that argument. As a paying fan I believe you have a responsibility to help the side as best you can. The best way to do this is get behind them, and creating an atmosphere that players can feed off. As you highlighted above, the worst way to do this is by telling them they''re not good enough.[/quote] As a paying fan your players and the club have a responsibility to fulfill your requirements as a customer. To think otherwise is absurd!, without joe public (Plastic fan or not) wanting to watch football there would be no football clubs! You talk about a supporter who has his own opinion, agenda and personality, some optimistic other persimistic but all pay their money to come, watch and vent their frustrations as they want, right or wrong in your own minds but who can say that as a statement? Players too are motivated by different things, some by anr arm round the shoulders others by being fired up like the crowd booing, you get e response! The above apples in general and I for one don''t boo nor will I. But to me football is still an entertainment industry and need to keep the global fans entertained and more important the fans in the ground! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TCCANARY 263 Posted March 28, 2014 [quote user="Indy"]The above apples in general and I for one don''t boo nor will I. But to me football is still an entertainment industry and need to keep the global fans entertained and more important the fans in the ground![/quote] That''s a pear comment. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
T 190 Posted March 28, 2014 I know a few Bolton fans who would be pleased to have the opportunity to boo SA. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
It's Character Forming 1,160 Posted March 28, 2014 [quote user="Kris Houghton"]Never had booing under Lambert. Hapless deserves it. Hooton out. Messiah back.[/quote] You know, this post has an uncanny similarity to a massive number of posts by another poster. Now, what''s his name, an 1p5wich fan, ... it''ll come back to me in a moment. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hoolahans Left Foot 0 Posted March 28, 2014 Houghton out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The ghost of Michael Theoklitos 0 Posted March 28, 2014 [quote user="Indy"][quote user="The ghost of Michael Theoklitos"]Fantastic post.But I''ve always thought booing your own team at football matches was absurd, like trying to motivate someone by repeatedly telling them they are useless, smell badly and will never amount to anything in life ever.It doesn''t help the players, it doesn''t help the atmosphere and, well, it''s just a bit childish isn''t it. I 100% agree with this point. Quite often, booers will defend their ''right to boo'' with things like ''I pay my money, I have a right to express myself... blah blah''.I can''t accept that argument. As a paying fan I believe you have a responsibility to help the side as best you can. The best way to do this is get behind them, and creating an atmosphere that players can feed off. As you highlighted above, the worst way to do this is by telling them they''re not good enough.[/quote] As a paying fan your players and the club have a responsibility to fulfill your requirements as a customer. To think otherwise is absurd!, without joe public (Plastic fan or not) wanting to watch football there would be no football clubs! You talk about a supporter who has his own opinion, agenda and personality, some optimistic other persimistic but all pay their money to come, watch and vent their frustrations as they want, right or wrong in your own minds but who can say that as a statement? Players too are motivated by different things, some by anr arm round the shoulders others by being fired up like the crowd booing, you get e response! The above apples in general and I for one don''t boo nor will I. But to me football is still an entertainment industry and need to keep the global fans entertained and more important the fans in the ground![/quote]Sorry mate, but that''s absurd. You want a guarantee that your team is going to play well, entertain and win all to please the adoring paying public. Sport just isn''t like that. You''re deluded if you expect it to be.If you want great entertainment and a guaranteed happy ending, go buy a cinema ticket to a rom-com, or go use the services of a local massage parlor.Do I want to watch good flowing football where we we score loads of goals, and win in dramatic circumstances? Sure. Do I expect it? No. As I said to you on another thread. Watching my team to me is entertainment. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GenerationA47 751 Posted March 28, 2014 Well said Theo... you really must be a different breed from the average Aussie used to winning all the time - gone native haven''t you :-p Nice original post too... always makes me turn up the corners of the old mouth Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Indy_Bones 441 Posted March 28, 2014 [quote user="The ghost of Michael Theoklitos"]You want a guarantee that your team is going to play well, entertain and win all to please the adoring paying public.[/quote]No, I''d like a guarantee that our team is going to TRY to play good football, actively TRY to win (instead of sitting back and hoping the opposition fail to score), and hopefully provide some good entertainment in the process.This recurrence of ''anti-football'' (much like the old ''Catenaccio'' approach) is an anathema to everything good about football, and everything a paying fan usually doesn''t want to see in a game.We may have had less clean sheets under the Lambert approach, but at least we went at teams, tried to win for the full 90 minutes and played some VERY exciting, attacking football in the process.I know which style of football the majority of fans would rather pay to watch... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phillip J Fry 0 Posted March 28, 2014 [quote user="Indy_Bones"][quote user="The ghost of Michael Theoklitos"]You want a guarantee that your team is going to play well, entertain and win all to please the adoring paying public.[/quote]No, I''d like a guarantee that our team is going to TRY to play good football, actively TRY to win (instead of sitting back and hoping the opposition fail to score), and hopefully provide some good entertainment in the process.This recurrence of ''anti-football'' (much like the old ''Catenaccio'' approach) is an anathema to everything good about football, and everything a paying fan usually doesn''t want to see in a game.We may have had less clean sheets under the Lambert approach, but at least we went at teams, tried to win for the full 90 minutes and played some VERY exciting, attacking football in the process.I know which style of football the majority of fans would rather pay to watch...[/quote]But what of this style of football led to relegation? Are most fans willing to accept constant losses as long as the team tries to play in an attacking manner? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
T 190 Posted March 28, 2014 Of course we really would all like to see stylish football but I don''t see any side in the bottom half playing great football. I didn''t see Chelsea play great football won the champions league. It seems some people would be better off pursuing another past time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Indy_Bones 441 Posted March 28, 2014 [quote user="Phillip J Fry"]But what if this style of football led to relegation? Are most fans willing to accept constant losses as long as the team tries to play in an attacking manner? [/quote]I can''t speak for most fans, but I personally AM willing to accept losses as long as we''ve genuinely tried to win and played good football in the process.I appreciate that this is a minority view (and certainly not one that a modern board would agree with), but I really am starting to question the point of teams playing the damn game if they don''t want to actively play football as it were.Football like we''ve seen from teams such as Stoke, West Ham, Bolton and more recently ourselves may well have been relatively effective from a purely results focused viewpoint, but from a footballing viewpoint it''s been a complete disgrace at times.What''s funny is that 20 or so years ago we played a more open, attacking game with the likes of Fox and Eadie and didn''t worry about them defending most of the time and fans were really happy with how we played the game, we then repeated this to some extent when Hucks came on board and again we all loved the attacking element of our game, cue the Lambert era and again attacking football was the choice and we had a brilliant three seasons of generally good to watch football.Now take the periods in-between, the years in the championship with the likes of Milligan, Fozzy and Clingan in midfield, where our best wingers were the likes of Rivers or Easton, and then also look at how we''ve played since Hughton took over and again you don''t see much joy there either do you?Obviously, any fan wants their team to finish as high as possible, challenge for titles and silverware and be in the best league, but in truth I''d be happy to accept 17th every season as long as we played good football, where we were exciting to watch and got the occasional ''upset'' against the likes of Man City or Chelsea.Would this approach guarantee relegation? Who the f**k knows, but I''d rather we tried it and found out than settle for an incessant repeat of the last two years where even a DIY wallpapering, painting and stippling DVD would have been more fun to watch... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Duncan Edwards 2,231 Posted March 28, 2014 How many games have you been to in the last two years?You don''t sound like much of a supporter to me, more like some kind of "Purist" who wants to call "Bravo!" and the like. In fact I imagine you only think the added time should be played if the game was worthy of cries of "Encore!" from the audience.Spiffing!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phillip J Fry 0 Posted March 28, 2014 Fair enough Indy_Bones Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
4th floor 4 Posted March 28, 2014 So either we play dour, safe football or we get relegated playing like Blackpool did a few seasons ago? I think we could afford to shift a bit more from the dour end of the spectrum without being relegated. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phillip J Fry 0 Posted March 28, 2014 [quote user="JonnyH"]So either we play dour, safe football or we get relegated playing like Blackpool did a few seasons ago? I think we could afford to shift a bit more from the dour end of the spectrum without being relegated.[/quote]Obviously it''s not that simple, but we honestly can''t predict what a change in style or manager could do to Norwich in terms of relegation. All we can go with is what we know now and that is that the ''negative'' football of Hughton delivered us one more season of premier league football last season and has a good (though by no means definite) chance of doing the same this year. For some people they feel that a shift in emphasis will see Norwich be as successful if not more so. I can understand why some people take that view and some people (and posters) that I respect very highly are of that opinion but I, personally, am not as convinced by this concept as others. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dubai Mark 0 Posted March 29, 2014 Whilst I certainly agree with some of what you have writen regarding boo boys, this rambling just feels to me like an opportunity to demonstrate that you are a reasonable wordsmith and yet another post designed to criticise our current manager, albeit indirectly, which is quite disappointing........because I think we have all had enough of that.Clearly Big Sam has done a great job at West Ham, the board knew what they were getting when they appointed him in terms of probable success whilst accepting that they wouldnt be getting the "West Ham Academy" style of play. The fans have also been happy to take and cheer the success provided by Big Sam......BUT....then seem to get totally carried away by what their club can achieve and they seem to have expectations that right now are probably way beyond the club, particularly with the financing of their stadium move coming up. Sam Allardyce was probably (I think definately) under more pressure than any other EPL manager this season, due to that stadium hanging over the club and he is now very close to achieving the objective. Perhaps playing a little prettier is on the agenda when he gets some more cash to buy the extra quality his squad clearly needs as when it is stretched it looks very thin........thinner than even Norwich City''s. I too question how many games you have actually watched, as it seems you make comments based on limited information, as from what I, and I am sure many others have seen, whilst acknowledging fully that some games really have been dull, even dire (a comment that I am sure can be made for any bottom 10 club) .......when our manager gets his full squad or close to full squad to choose from the performances have been better and you can clearly see the evolvement in our style of play, its hasnt in reality just happened recently.Finally, I totally disagree with your comment relating to Bradley Johnson, to put the good performance against Sunderland down to Bradley Johnson not playing is ridiculous in the extreme and I feel smacks of a pewrsonal attack on one of the players at the club this season has contributed the most, including in some of the more enterprising performances.I guess I just also rambled........boo me then! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ron obvious 1,502 Posted March 29, 2014 Comparing us to West Ham is a travesty. We are TRYING to play good football, but it is frequently too laboured in execution, or moves break down too easily. The players we have are not consistent enough - & injuries have played a major part in our problems.Please do not try to compare us to Allardyce''s team. The contrast in styles last time we played them was stark. They played some of the worst ''football'' I''ve ever seen from a Premiership side. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
4th floor 4 Posted March 29, 2014 [quote user="Phillip J Fry"][quote user="JonnyH"]So either we play dour, safe football or we get relegated playing like Blackpool did a few seasons ago? I think we could afford to shift a bit more from the dour end of the spectrum without being relegated.[/quote]Obviously it''s not that simple, but we honestly can''t predict what a change in style or manager could do to Norwich in terms of relegation. All we can go with is what we know now and that is that the ''negative'' football of Hughton delivered us one more season of premier league football last season and has a good (though by no means definite) chance of doing the same this year. For some people they feel that a shift in emphasis will see Norwich be as successful if not more so. I can understand why some people take that view and some people (and posters) that I respect very highly are of that opinion but I, personally, am not as convinced by this concept as others. [/quote]It''s not so much that we''re ''negative'', more that certain aspects of our play are needlessly poor. The fans at least want to see a better standard of passing and players being able to control a football. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Daniel Brigham 0 Posted March 29, 2014 Hi Ron ObviousTotally agree with you, as I wrote in the piece. We outplayed them at Upton Park. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites