Have to hand it to Van Wolfswinkel...

[Guest]

To be honest, I''m surprised that the same people who continually slate Hughton for his tactics and negative approach (apart from when we win in which case it''s the in-spite of him) are the same who make ridiculous excuses for RvW.

Yes, the guy hasn''t had a hat load of chances but at this level you simply won''t get them. He had two gilt-edged opportunities last week, and as someone has said, a superb opportunity to get on the end of an Elmander ball today if he had anticipated it.

The frustrating thing about today is that their first two goals came from us giving away the ball in ridiculous positions. Players who otherwise seem solid fall to pieces under a bit of pressure away from home.

[tom cavendish 0]

[quote user="Yellow Wall"]

Could it be, just possibly be, that our manager and his coaching staff really don''t have much of an idea when it comes to attacking play?[/quote]As I said in 2012 they would struggle to sign a good striker even when money was made available.

[Bill 1,788]

[quote user="I.S."]To be honest, I''m surprised that the same people who continually slate Hughton for his tactics and negative approach (apart from when we win in which case it''s the in-spite of him) are the same who make ridiculous excuses for RvW.

Yes, the guy hasn''t had a hat load of chances but at this level you simply won''t get them. He had two gilt-edged opportunities last week, and as someone has said, a superb opportunity to get on the end of an Elmander ball today if he had anticipated it.

The frustrating thing about today is that their first two goals came from us giving away the ball in ridiculous positions. Players who otherwise seem solid fall to pieces under a bit of pressure away from home.[/quote]I don''t think anyone is making excuses for RVW, ridiculous or not.But it must again bring into question Hughton''s tactics when he is constantly playing RVW when, for whatever reason, it is not working.

[Fromage Frais 10]

I can understand the lack of goals as we are pants going forward.

I don''t understand the physical weakness poor control/ball striking and hand flapping/boy language. You would think a decent striker would be able to work a shot or something like Hooper has done from time to time. I can see than in a better team Hooper would score he has a hard strike and has a couple of goals that show he can finish, is he top draw? nope as not fast enough but he has the raw materials there with decent strength and good ball retention/ pass completion etc.

We are side that most of the time will be up against it so we need players who have mental strength. At no stage has he looked like a dead eyed assassin to be honest if he gets a chance I feel less confident in him than other players.

So a) he is either a complete dud

or b) Cannot mentally cope with the situation he is in.

I go for b and from his flapping and body language take it hat he does not want to be here any more.

He is so bad at the he must have appearances set in his contract as I would have any of the other strikers on the clubs books starting ahead of him at the moment.

I really admire the goodwill shown to him by fans but he offers so little its so sad really our record signing and poster boy.

I just hope we are in the premier league to enable him to have a second crack.

[im spartacus canary 0]

it got to the stage today where the co commentator on the stream was openly ridiculing him [:(]

[Fromage Frais 10]

[quote user="im spartacus"]it got to the stage today where the co commentator on the stream was openly ridiculing him [:(][/quote]

Yep despite the good will outside of Norwich he is considered one of the disasters of the season.

I cannot comprehend how bad he is thus far.

[Juggy 0]

I actually feel a bit sorry for him in a way, this is the first time he has played in a top league and he chose the wrong one to play in at the detriment to his legacy. Would have been better off in La Liga playing for Villareal or somebody. Suspect he''ll be back off to a second rate top division like Portugal or Holland, or one of the top three or four teams in Turkey or somewhere. No matter where he goes that 1 in 23 will be a stain on his CV and he will go down as a flop in the EPL, doesn''t matter how many he goes and scores in La Liga or Eredivisie. Isn''t the first and won''t be the last to do well on the continent but flop in the Premier League.At least he hasn''t done a Jozy Altidore yet and made the same mistake twice.

[vos 155]

Most amazing signing we have ever made. Sometimes wonder if he is a double. He just does not look like a footballer. Never seems to be in the box where it counts. Spends a lot of time in midfield and when he does receive the ball treats it like a hot potato with a quick hurried short pass. No confidence on the ball at all and shows no signs of holding up the ball on the rare occasions he is upfront on his own. We have really yet to see him take on a defender. Often said he gets in to good positions, but I do not see this. If anything is not in the right place where it hurts.

I completely accept that under Hughton this is a graveyard for strikers but I do not actually see the Wolf making much of an impact at Championship level. As earlier mentioned he has made less of an impact than Morrison and Kamara. I cannot see any likelihood of him contributing more, particularly under the negative Hughton.

[drurys testamonials V 15 0]

[quote user="GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary"]

[quote user="Indy_Bones"]How about we give RVW 23 games where we don''t ask him to play a target man role, and actually attempt more than 1 through ball a season before writing him off?

It really is the square peg in a round pole problem and THAT is not his fault (even if some of his misses certainly are).
[/quote]

dont think we can keep using these excuses anymore?...over the course of the season we''ve tried everything to accomodate him,

up front on his own, with a target man, with Hooper, with Hoolahan behind him, with Fer behind him, in a 4-4-2 with 2 wingers, in a 4-3-3 with 2 wide men cuting in to support?...........name me something we havent tried yet??.....time to face facts, he''s not up to it in this league.

[/quote]

 

Playing as a team, rather than as 11 individual players, who know what each other is doing and playing with tactics that match our team''s strengths, not exposing the weaknesses or playing in positions that do not suit.

[......and Smith must score. 1,342]

" Be very afraid of the Big Bad Wolf "Must rank as the most embarrassing own goal the NCFC advertising dept has ever scored. [:$]

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,749]

[quote user="drurys testamonials V 15"][quote user="GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary"]

[quote user="Indy_Bones"]How about we give RVW 23 games where we don''t ask him to play a target man role, and actually attempt more than 1 through ball a season before writing him off?

It really is the square peg in a round pole problem and THAT is not his fault (even if some of his misses certainly are).
[/quote]

dont think we can keep using these excuses anymore?...over the course of the season we''ve tried everything to accomodate him,

up front on his own, with a target man, with Hooper, with Hoolahan behind him, with Fer behind him, in a 4-4-2 with 2 wingers, in a 4-3-3 with 2 wide men cuting in to support?...........name me something we havent tried yet??.....time to face facts, he''s not up to it in this league.

[/quote]

 

Playing as a team, rather than as 11 individual players, who know what each other is doing and playing with tactics that match our team''s strengths, not exposing the weaknesses or playing in positions that do not suit.

[/quote]

maybe...but even on the occasions where we do play well such as last week vs Sunderland ,the game still seems to go on around him..

[Syteanric 1]

[quote user="im spartacus"]it got to the stage today where the co commentator on the stream was openly ridiculing him [:(][/quote]

Dean Sturridge.... and he banged the odd one in during his playing days....

[K Lo 224]

Did Norwich buy a fake RvW ??https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdUL4v2xps4

[hogesar 9,658]

Hard to be too harsh to RVW and Hooper has also been poor but i think Hooper offers us more overall in that lone role than RVW ever will, simply by being a bit quicker and stronger.

RVW is not a lone striker. Not in the Prem. But, we''re also not good enough to play 2 up front for the majority of games. Which makes, in my opinion, our best option including RVW to be Hoolahan playing just behind him. Or Howson. Someone who can thread balls through.

The problem I have is his confidence is shot to bits and rather than leave him out, get him training hard and taking the pressure off a bit, Hughton seems to have literally no idea how to man-manage him so plays him regardless. Which unfortunately I think is to both RVW and the teams detriment.

Think Hooper will start next week.

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,749]

[quote user="hogesar"]Hard to be too harsh to RVW and Hooper has also been poor but i think Hooper offers us more overall in that lone role than RVW ever will, simply by being a bit quicker and stronger. RVW is not a lone striker. Not in the Prem. But, we''re also not good enough to play 2 up front for the majority of games. Which makes, in my opinion, our best option including RVW to be Hoolahan playing just behind him. Or Howson. Someone who can thread balls through. The problem I have is his confidence is shot to bits and rather than leave him out, get him training hard and taking the pressure off a bit, Hughton seems to have literally no idea how to man-manage him so plays him regardless. Which unfortunately I think is to both RVW and the teams detriment. Think Hooper will start next week.[/quote]

His confidence must be low but I''d dearly love to know exactly what theyve been doing on the training pitch with him during the season during the week between games?

presumably they must surely work on team shape and how they are setting up the team around RVW to create chances for him?......which inturn he must presumably be scoring and looking confident in doing so during the week in training?........at least that''s what I hope is happening?

[Fromage Frais 10]

[quote user="GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary"]

[quote user="hogesar"]Hard to be too harsh to RVW and Hooper has also been poor but i think Hooper offers us more overall in that lone role than RVW ever will, simply by being a bit quicker and stronger. RVW is not a lone striker. Not in the Prem. But, we''re also not good enough to play 2 up front for the majority of games. Which makes, in my opinion, our best option including RVW to be Hoolahan playing just behind him. Or Howson. Someone who can thread balls through. The problem I have is his confidence is shot to bits and rather than leave him out, get him training hard and taking the pressure off a bit, Hughton seems to have literally no idea how to man-manage him so plays him regardless. Which unfortunately I think is to both RVW and the teams detriment. Think Hooper will start next week.[/quote]

His confidence must be low but I''d dearly love to know exactly what theyve been doing on the training pitch with him during the season during the week between games?

presumably they must surely work on team shape and how they are setting up the team around RVW to create chances for him?......which inturn he must presumably be scoring and looking confident in doing so during the week in training?........at least that''s what I hope is happening?

[/quote]

Thats a very good point.

Surely a manager cannot pick out of form players when he has others to choose from in our precarious state.

Does anyone see the training? Does he bang them in?

[ZLF 274]

Its clear that when it comes to away games and strikers the manager HAS to pick out of form players!

As far as strikers are concerned RvW has not looked good but over the last month he has been marginally less bad than Hooper. Both players are really struggling to get into games to have an influence or to get shots on target. Its now 3 months since either has scored - so I am truly struggling to see how people can insist hooper is better or more in form than rvw. Its all well and good to rave about Bonys excellent performance yesterday but look at the passes he got compared to those our embarrasingly bad creative midfielders (Snoddy, Wes, Howson, Guitierrez) provided elmander, hooper and rvw. Swap hooper or rvw for bony and bony would struggle in our game yest and both hooper and rvw would have looked good. (they would also have been up against a static defence and midfield that refuses to track runners, wes watched du guzman for the first, howson and olsson both inexplicably stopped tracking their scoring runners as they hit the penalty area, allow both the time and space needed for a simple finish)

442 continues to highlight just how weak our midfield is, esp without the key partnership of Fer & Tettey.

[Indy_Bones 441]

[quote user="ZippersLeftFoot"]RvW has not looked good but over the last month he has been marginally less bad than Hooper. Both players are really struggling to get into games to have an influence or to get shots on target. Its now 3 months since either has scored - so I am truly struggling to see how people can insist hooper is better or more in form than rvw. Its all well and good to rave about Bonys excellent performance yesterday but look at the passes he got compared to those our embarrasingly bad creative midfielders (Snoddy, Wes, Howson, Guitierrez) provided elmander, hooper and rvw. Swap hooper or rvw for bony and bony would struggle in our game yest and both hooper and rvw would have looked good.[/quote]Spot on ZLF and exactly the point I''ve been making.We are NOT playing to RVW''s (or Hoopers) strengths, are NOT giving them a good supply of genuine chances, and because of the other issues their confidence is low and they''re missing chances they''d normally score.

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

In a nutshell, frankly there is absolutely no point in both Hughton and RvW (or Hooper) both being at this club at the same time.Hughton does not suit RvW''s style and v.v. One of them has to leave Carrow Rd in the summer.And no prizes for guessing which one I would prefer to do one......

[railwaycanary 0]

Be very afraid of the Big Bad Wolf "Must rank as the most embarrassing own goal the NCFC advertising dept has ever scored.

I had a feeling when I first saw that poster that it would probably come back and bite us in the arse, but I never dreamt it would be this bad!

[Fromage Frais 10]

[quote user="Reggie Strayshun"]In a nutshell, frankly there is absolutely no point in both Hughton and RvW (or Hooper) both being at this club at the same time.Hughton does not suit RvW''s style and v.v. One of them has to leave Carrow Rd in the summer.And no prizes for guessing which one I would prefer to do one......[/quote]

I would have assumed a defensive team would have at least one fast forward player.

I dont think CH chose RVW I cannot imagine a scenario where one day he wants Bony Strong fast and then decides that he actually wants a poacher.

If you have a system surely you have a type to fit that system?

[Katie Borkins 1]

We should have saved the millions and signed Wolf from Gladiators.

[chicken 0]

This thread is a bit shocking.

Wolfswinkel played at clubs in leagues well known for their lack of physicality and their higher level of technical ability. Perhaps even arguably where the pace quite isn''t the same of the Premier League.

He''s not rubbish - as others have said, he would not have had the career up to signing for us if he was - including getting picked for one of the worlds current better teams.

All of that said, perhaps we all would have wanted more from him this season as a result of his fee. Many of us predicted on here, before the season, that Hooper would be more successful simply for not having to be given time to adapt to the league, to settle in to a new culture and new approach to football.

The price is not always reflective on ability alone, things like length of contract, age, potential and performances to date.

My view on RVW: He''s a good, reasonably fast and technical player, he knows where the goal is and has come close a lot of times. His link up play and work ethic is pretty decent too. The problem I see at the moment is that his confidence is pretty low and that he''s almost on a different page to other players - perhaps taking time to settle in and perhaps because some of our team just are not good enough.

I think it''s worth looking at how many goals are coming from our midfielders. Some of that is because the midfielders are arriving into the box later than the strikers and due to the inverted wingers, puts them in a better position to score goals.

As others have said, working space to thread a ball through for the likes of RVW to run onto is very rare. The sort of runs to pull a defense about and create space just don''t seem to be happening.

So the true source of the issue for me is that this year, Ricky has been a bit of a luxury. We are not playing consistently enough to bed in a player - any player that doesn''t know British football well.

I''d personally want to know why Elmander hasn''t done more than he has. Why Snodders has been brilliant at times but has struggled to be more reliable all season and is often caught napping defensively.

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,749]

[quote user="chicken"]This thread is a bit shocking. Wolfswinkel played at clubs in leagues well known for their lack of physicality and their higher level of technical ability. Perhaps even arguably where the pace quite isn''t the same of the Premier League. He''s not rubbish - as others have said, he would not have had the career up to signing for us if he was - including getting picked for one of the worlds current better teams. All of that said, perhaps we all would have wanted more from him this season as a result of his fee. Many of us predicted on here, before the season, that Hooper would be more successful simply for not having to be given time to adapt to the league, to settle in to a new culture and new approach to football. The price is not always reflective on ability alone, things like length of contract, age, potential and performances to date. My view on RVW: He''s a good, reasonably fast and technical player, he knows where the goal is and has come close a lot of times. His link up play and work ethic is pretty decent too. The problem I see at the moment is that his confidence is pretty low and that he''s almost on a different page to other players - perhaps taking time to settle in and perhaps because some of our team just are not good enough. I think it''s worth looking at how many goals are coming from our midfielders. Some of that is because the midfielders are arriving into the box later than the strikers and due to the inverted wingers, puts them in a better position to score goals. As others have said, working space to thread a ball through for the likes of RVW to run onto is very rare. The sort of runs to pull a defense about and create space just don''t seem to be happening. So the true source of the issue for me is that this year, Ricky has been a bit of a luxury. We are not playing consistently enough to bed in a player - any player that doesn''t know British football well. I''d personally want to know why Elmander hasn''t done more than he has. Why Snodders has been brilliant at times but has struggled to be more reliable all season and is often caught napping defensively.[/quote]

don''t think too many who have observed us this season would have come to the conclusion that the rest of our team aren''t good enough for RVW?!?!?!?!??

[Dubai Mark 0]

I dont like threads that attack individuals to be honest.

However.........Chicken is closer to how I feel about things with RVW and I agree that he isnt rubbish. But.......he is beginning to worry me recently, as he HAS had a few very easy chances, not many but a few..... and missed them, plus when watching him closely recently it is clear for all to see that he just doesnt make the right runs into the space where a natural striker would go, its all a bit bizaar.......and now must be about confidence.

I am suspecting that he wont start in many of the remaining fixtures ,and to be quite honest I suspect he will have a better chance to score coming on later in a game with fresh legs against tired defenders.   

  

[Yellow Wal 314]

Dubai Mark - you really should have given yourself more time to have read what chicken had written. It is a reasoned analysis of some of the problems we have had this season ............ far too reasoned for this board.

Like so many who go to Carrow Road they watch the game but see very little. The main problem is not the individual ability of our players, I happen to think we have many good players, but the way that the manager uses them.

To play with two inverted wingers so often this season has been the death knell of our strikers. It has severely restricted space in the opposition penalty area for them to work in and made it virtually impossible for our midfield to attack effectively.

But just as a goalkeeper who lets in five goals ''must'' have had a bad day so must the forwards if we didn''t score. The overall performance of the team does not get looked at. As I have said, so many watch the game but see nothing.

Our attacks are one-dimensional, without inventiveness, laboured, predictable and slow. We have had defenders hardly breaking into a sweat playing against us. The Swansea defence on Saturday were neither stretched or pressurised. The balls that would have caused that would not have been played by the forwards!

The possession game that we try to play is not good enough and we come out second best. Our managerial team should look at Pullis at Crystal Palace.

Whereas I am not advocating playing a Pullis style of play I am saying that he has achieved something that we have not. He is getting the best out of the players he has.

[chicken 0]

I''d just add that bar Holt in our first season in the prem, I think we have the best squad we have had at this level, and any level, perhaps since the early ''90''s at least.

The squad has been improved, the results haven''t.

I really like Hughton, and I really wanted him to succeed but he hasn''t improved this season, we haven''t kicked on. I''d have liked to have been safe by now.

RVW just sums it up for me. At the start of the season, against Everton - he was making those runs, he was trying to get in behind the opposition defence. Even against Chelsea when he laid off the goal for Pilkington, he was much better all round.

He looks shot. He works hard, he drops deeper, he doesn''t make those runs because I honestly believe he feels no one will pick them out. Or that when they do there is no one in support of him to make it count.

Again that is another thing I think we have missed. When Pilkington or Redmond play they look to link straight up with the strikers. Despite his lack of end product Redmond will always keep an opposition defence being a bit cautious as they know he can just rip them for pace.

Balance - for me, if you are going to play Snodgras he should be played on the left. And not because he is left footed but because his lack of pace is made up by Olson''s apparent abundance of it. When he plays down the right Martin offers him an overlap but he often sells it short or Martin loses it and neither are quick enough to get back.

Personally I would like to see Jonas on the left and Redmond on the right, and lets see what a couple of players full of tricks and on their natural flanks can do.

I''d also be tempted to play Pilkington alongside Elmander if he is able to start. Just because he is one of the more tenacious and creative players we have.

[nutty nigel 7,532]

Chicken, I don''t see the point of playing Snoddy on the left. I don''t go with all this fuss about inverted wingers. Hucks was right footed and played on the left. My criticism is we don''t mover the ball quickly enough on the counter. By the time we get in the final third the other side are defending in numbers. We need to get over the half-way line quicker, inverted wingers would be an advantage with fullbacks charging on the outer. But that depends greatly on other midfielders being disciplined. I lost count of the times Gary Holt used to end up at left back after Drury and Hucks were stranded upfield.

 

 

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

[quote user="ZippersLeftFoot"]As far as strikers are concerned RvW has not looked good but over the last month he has been marginally less bad than Hooper. Both players are really struggling to get into games to have an influence or to get shots on target. [/quote]Of course we could look at it more simplistically....  During the last 7 games Elmander and Hooper started together, Hooper scored 5 goals.  Since Hooper last scored, against Fulham, he has started alongside Elmander just once... away at Cardiff.It seems bizarre our extremely well paid manager is overlooking the most successful strike partnership at the club.

[Yellow Wal 314]

Citizen J F - There are many things I see from our manager with team selection and substitutions which I see as bizarre.

Nutty - Hucks did not play as an out and out inverted winger and did not always come inside. I can remember much good work by him down the flank. The most important point is that when he played on the left we had conventional wingers on the right (Rivers, Jonson, Henderson, Croft and others) so we still had some width to the attack, something which has been so often lacking this season.

chicken - your point about Snodgrass is extremely valid. The lack of pace on the right, both in attack and when covering, has been evident quite often and it would add to the balance if he was teamed up with Olsson.

As for playing Gutierez and Redmond in the wide positions ......... drop Snodgrass? Sounds interesting!