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Raedwald

Swansea were just too good!

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Norwich manager Chris Hughton, speaking to BBC Sport: "Credit to Swansea they were better than us from start to finish. They always threatened and always looked like scoring. At the moment we are finding it very difficult to get that right formula away from home.

"We tried to continue the form and the way we played in our win last week but Swansea are a very good side, they have good offensive options and we could not cope with that today.

"We had to defend well to stop them at times and they never allowed us to be in the game ourselves."

 

So who''s job is it to find that formula and how long will it take?

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Also said something along the lines of "we knew they''d have more possession than us," makes you wonder what message that sends out to our players. Certainly wouldn''t motivate me.

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"offensive options" ?so at half time Hughton''s change of tactics is to be more ''offensive'', or to put it bluntly kick the sh it out of Swanseathat might be offensive to the purists, but is about the level he has taken us to

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We make every team we play away look good,and after every game ch comes out and says we got what we deserved,Swansea were without a win in 9 league and cup games yet we sit back let them pass it around us then give them a helping hand scoring against us, do we actually do the simple things in training like passing the ball to each other we must be the worst passing team in the league the amount if times we just pass it off the pitch and as far as Bradley Johnson go''s he is probably the worst passer out of all 4 divisions in England

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As someone else posted - they could roll out his excuses interviews from any of our away games. He has nothing new to say, and has no answers.

Completely understand if the players have stopped listening to him as well. The club has put up with sub-standard results and performances for so long the players know they can just roll along picking up the money - the manager is powerless, and the board give tacit approval.

Get rid for next week and get someone in to kick some backsides.

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because Hughton has us playing some kind of static zonal nonsenseanyone who has played beyond park football will be aware that you have it driven into to create options for the player with the ball, not stand pretty much rigid as in netball and expect the player to get the ball to youthis cr ap allows the opposition to close you down and leaves the player with the ball little option but to hit the ball to a marked playerwith a player such as Jjoihnson there would normally be a creative player playing off him, not with Hughton''s tactics where each player is left with the ball and no one helping himthis is so blindingly obvious that it is commented upon time and time again by those covering the game, yet still the players are stuck with it

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[quote user="vlad666"]Also said something along the lines of "we knew they''d have more possession than us," makes you wonder what message that sends out to our players. Certainly wouldn''t motivate me.[/quote]

Vlad, I think the stats show that Swansea have more possession than just about anybody - so not unreasonable to acknowledge it. The problem is that whatever plans were laid to nullify what they do with it were totally ineffective.

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So what did he do differently today from last week. Chalk and cheese in performance. Or does Hughton tell the players to play differently away from home?

 

 

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Sussexyellow , I agree and was expecting Swansea to have more possession than us. Just seems a defeatist attitude to have. Motivation is such a key ingredient.

Does Hughton tell the players to accept this and stand off them? It seems that way. Again I think it comes back to Hughton wanting to keep his shape. You give Premier league players time on the ball and they will hurt you, as we''ve seen so many times away from home. At home we close down more and the results are better and we look pretty solid. Away from home we sit back, let the opposition have all the time in the world and HOPE we snatch something.

Not good enough and they''re cheating our fans, especially those who pay a lot of money to watch performances where 100% isn''t being given.

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I think he did, NN. It seemed to me that Olsson was instructed not to make any overlapping runs, Wes was pushed further out left & Howson was being used as a holding midfielder. I strongly suspect he was playing to not get beat primarily & nick a win if possible.

It didn''t work.

We came out second half totally different - more like last week''s formation - & nearly got back in the game. It was quite Lambertesque, & confirmed me in my opinion that he relied on the opposition oftenmessing up if they found themselves in one-on-one (or two-on-two) situations (viz. de Guzman on 63 mins.).

Hughton''s a rational man, trying to rationally achieve survival. Just hope it works.

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Vlad, agree motivation is not just a key ingredient but if you do not have it you are pretty much done for. Accepting that the Swans would have more possession is not in itself defeatist, it is how you deal with it that is key. But that said I agree with the rest of the points you make.

Something just does not work away from home. I think we would have got more points from being totally gung-ho.

And yes, as McNally has now openly stated we are in the entertainment business, and the away fans are being heavily cheated.

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To be fair Ron I don''t think Olsson got forward too much last week because of Bardsley and Johnson. We were far stronger on the right. And again we were today. Wes would have played more out on the left because Guzman  and Rangel would show more attacking threat than Sunderland''s pair last week.

 

Last week Poyet said Norwich were brave. Same players set up the same way today and they didn''t look brave to me. Our home and away form are chalk and cheese. Often from the samer players set out the same way. It''s simplistic to blame the manager but not quite so simple to say what he got wrong.

 

 

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You''re right Nutty. The gulf is just so great it''s difficult to imagine it''s something that is purely down to how Hughton is motivating/setting up the squad.

The fragility is remarkable.

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Formation and team selection is 1 thing, how you utilise that formation and team is another thing in my opinion. We clearly play a different way away from home, so in answer to NNs question, yes i think Hughton does tell the players to play a different way away from home

However - we are not the only team in the league to do this - just about any team from 9th down will keep it tight away from home. The problem we have is that we cannot hold teams off with the way we play, we concede and then we cannot change a game to get ourselves back into it. Instead we look a defeated team and crumble (11 conceded in 3 away games?)

At home we seem to press and control the tempo of games. Against Sunderland Elmander and RVW didn''t give the defenders/goalkeeper a second to think. Away from home we do not press and do not try to influence the game and due to a fragile away defence eventually just concede. We obviously cannot go all out attack away from home - look at the Villa game - but we also cannot go into games like today. It just ends with the same result. We somehow need to find the right balance

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Strangely it appears Hughton got more out of the team he inherited from Lambert than one with more of his own players in it.

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I have my doubts about that. As IS said we look fragile away from home. At Villa we didn''t start trying to play it tight we just fell to pieces. Same at West Ham but it took longer. Now if you look at our home games this year the only goal we''ve conceded is a penalty and we''re as good as nearly every one in the division. Our away form in that time is abysmal. I really can''t believe that is down to the managers instructions however much people want to believe that.

 

 

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You only have to consider Hughton''s comments and subsequent tactics that he spends most of his time showing far too much respect for the opposition. Bearing in mind Swansea''s recent terrible record we should have carried on as per last week and took the game to them, but the commentator continually said we are defending very deep .It would help if we had some kind of leadership on the pitch.

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]

So what did he do differently today from last week. Chalk and cheese in performance. Or does Hughton tell the players to play differently away from home?

 

[/quote]On 27/3/14 Nutty Nigel wrote on the '' Our away form is despicable thread '' :".....if we are 0-2 down at half time on Saturday I wouldn''t expect anyone there to be saying " Never mind we won last week "  [;)] "What an outrageous slur on City fans Nutty!! As LDC was there in person I''m sure in due course he''ll be delighted to enlighten us as to how he showed those Welsh hordes what jolly good sports we really are [;)]

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[quote user="......and Smith must score."][quote user="nutty nigel"]

So what did he do differently today from last week. Chalk and cheese in performance. Or does Hughton tell the players to play differently away from home?

 

[/quote]On 27/3/14 Nutty Nigel wrote on the '' Our away form is despicable thread '' :".....if we are 0-2 down at half time on Saturday I wouldn''t expect anyone there to be saying " Never mind we won last week "  [;)] "What an outrageous slur on City fans Nutty!! As LDC was there in person I''m sure in due course he''ll be delighted to enlighten us as to how he showed those Welsh hordes what jolly good sports we really are [;)][/quote]Shouldn''t be 2 goals down at half time and trying to take Swansea on at the passing game on the own pitch was stupid and asking for trouble. WBA didn''t play it that way and got away with all three points. If you can''t stay in the game longer than half an hour you are never going to win. Palace stick 10 men behind the ball from the off, home and away. Not pretty, but pretty effective considering almost everyone is better than them.Setting up for Swansea away the same way as for Sunderland at home was an accident waiting to happen. I think Hughton got suckered into it by last weeks result and a lot of voices on this Forum were thinking we would win away. In all honesty I couldn''t see that happening but was hoping for a point. Call me negative but IMO away from home you need to keep it tight for at least the first half. I may be alone in this but I would have started with Johnson and a 451 formation. A point away from home is always a good point.

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]

So what did he do differently today from last week. Chalk and cheese in performance. Or does Hughton tell the players to play differently away from home?

[/quote]What Hughton didn''t do today was change a failing formation. His response at half time was to bring two further defensive players onto the pitch.  We started with four across the middle and we ended with four across the middle.I was amazed RvW lasted so long, he might as well have not turned up today he was involved so little.

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[quote user="ricardo"] Palace stick 10 men behind the ball from the off, home and away. Not pretty, but pretty effective considering almost everyone is better than them.[/quote]
I watched Palace Chelsea highlights and thought they played great football. None of this ugly football so many say Pulis plays. They wanted it more, and created more than Chelsea, tackled more and had some very nice moves which led to shots on goal. Bolasie and the other fella in midfield that I can''t pronounce his name, actually beat their men a few times too. These are supposedly higher quality players!!!!
They play much better football than us, and are more consistent. Its between us, WBA and Sunderland for that last spot now IMO.

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Just back from the game. Some (not so) surprising choices and tactics again today. Same journey length to and from Swansea within 10 minutes via Birmingham or London - on balance the drive via Birmingham was preferable. I suspect we''ll still have a South Wales game next season.

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No Ricardo, I don''t think you were the only one. I''d have started Johnson too.

We were obviously very shaky at the back from the off - but in reality we lost the game in midfield for the 30940239420384 time away from home. The few ok looking away performances have been when we''ve had a central midfield of 3, and we''ve still lost most of those bloody games too.

Players have to stand up and be counted for and for the most part they didn''t. But they were basically hung out to dry by Hughton who, whilst I understand is desperate for a result away from home probably needs to look at getting back to basics and not losing the game in the first 30 minutes of a match. An away midfield including both Hoolahan and Howson, whilst still playing 2 strikers shows just how tactically naive Hughton can be at times, unfortunately for us.

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It was less a case of Swansea being ''too good'', and more a case of Norwich allowing them time and space to play pretty much uncontested.

Shelley had acres of space and oodles of time to dictate the midfield. Michu was more often or not unmarked in and around the penalty area. What on earth has transpired on the training pitch this week to work a plan to counteract Swansea?

Hoolahan proved today that he should only play in home matches. His contribution was nothing short of woeful, notable only by a last ditch clearance to stave off another goal. Martin proved once again that his best Norwich days are behind him, and RVW proved that he shouldn''t even make the bench if Norwich are going to successfully stave off relegation.

These three players, in particular, we''re Conference League at best, but none of the players were, in truth, worthy of mention.

Norwich''s recent successes over Swansea have come from a high intensity performance, pressing high up the pitch, and giving Swansea less time to pick a pass when in possession.

This performance was so far removed from that, you would be hard-pressed to imagine the words of wisdom passed onto the players by the management team on the run up to this game.

Swansea''s only two wins this year have come from beating Fulham and Cardiff. It would not surprise me if today''s win was by far their easiest. At least we had it confirmed today which two teams we are on a par with, and proof that the league table is giving some deluded Norwich fans a false sense of security.

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Pre match interview, which is the same if not more positive than what is said in the dressing room - and please believe me this is the case.

“We would expect them to pay a bit differently, a bit more expansively, as they normally do at home. They have goals in the team.”

Post match interview.

"Credit to Swansea they were better than us from start to finish. They always threatened and always looked like scoring."

Well Mr Hughton, you told yourself they would score goals, you told the media they would score goals, you told the fans they would score goals, you told our players they would score goals and you told them they would score goals, so guess what, they did.

I keep banging on about this but the human brain is hard wired to achieve, it moves toward its dominant thoughts and the subconscious does not judge and is unable to accept the reverse of an idea, so putting all that lot together, if your subconcious has an image/dominant thoughts of Swansea scoring goals, it will send the appropriate messages to ensure it happens.

Psychology plays a massive part, if but Mr H understood this and the damage he causes with his words and team talks, he would adopt a far more positive attitude when talking to the media or giving team talks..

Does this gaurantee success - NO, does it make success more likely - YES.

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[quote user="Ray"]Pre match interview, which is the same if not more positive than what is said in the dressing room - and please believe me this is the case.

“We would expect them to pay a bit differently, a bit more expansively, as they normally do at home. They have goals in the team.”

Post match interview.

"Credit to Swansea they were better than us from start to finish. They always threatened and always looked like scoring."

Well Mr Hughton, you told yourself they would score goals, you told the media they would score goals, you told the fans they would score goals, you told our players they would score goals and you told them they would score goals, so guess what, they did.

I keep banging on about this but the human brain is hard wired to achieve, it moves toward its dominant thoughts and the subconscious does not judge and is unable to accept the reverse of an idea, so putting all that lot together, if your subconcious has an image/dominant thoughts of Swansea scoring goals, it will send the appropriate messages to ensure it happens.

Psychology plays a massive part, if but Mr H understood this and the damage he causes with his words and team talks, he would adopt a far more positive attitude when talking to the media or giving team talks..

Does this gaurantee success - NO, does it make success more likely - YES.[/quote]Couldn''t agree more Ray.When I heard Hughtons post match interview after the game it was just the same old guff he has been spouting ever since he came in.(i.e after the Fulham debacle in Aug 12)How can his/this defeatist attitude not get ingrained into the playing squads mentality ( or at the very least give them an excuse to fail to perform in virtually every away game)?Unbelievably frustrating and simply unacceptable..

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[quote user="unique"]It was less a case of Swansea being ''too good'', and more a case of Norwich allowing them time and space to play pretty much uncontested.

Shelley had acres of space and oodles of time to dictate the midfield. Michu was more often or not unmarked in and around the penalty area. What on earth has transpired on the training pitch this week to work a plan to counteract Swansea?

Hoolahan proved today that he should only play in home matches. His contribution was nothing short of woeful, notable only by a last ditch clearance to stave off another goal. Martin proved once again that his best Norwich days are behind him, and RVW proved that he shouldn''t even make the bench if Norwich are going to successfully stave off relegation.

These three players, in particular, we''re Conference League at best, but none of the players were, in truth, worthy of mention.

Norwich''s recent successes over Swansea have come from a high intensity performance, pressing high up the pitch, and giving Swansea less time to pick a pass when in possession.

This performance was so far removed from that, you would be hard-pressed to imagine the words of wisdom passed onto the players by the management team on the run up to this game.

Swansea''s only two wins this year have come from beating Fulham and Cardiff. It would not surprise me if today''s win was by far their easiest. At least we had it confirmed today which two teams we are on a par with, and proof that the league table is giving some deluded Norwich fans a false sense of security.[/quote]

Great post unique! Sums it up very well and I couldn''t of written it better myself!

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Swansea were not "just too good", we offered the game to them on a plate. Chalk & Cheese sums it up aptly when you compare this game with last week''s. Our defensive simply isn''t good enough to keep out a skilful forward lineup as Swansea has, for the full ninety minutes, and the manager can''t wait until we''ve conceded two goals before changing the system as it was pretty clear in the first ten minutes that we were going to struggle.

We set up with more attack-minded players (Hoolahan and Howson) and yet sought to defend rather than press. The full-backs  made far fewer overlaps than against Sunderland, and oddly when we brought on two more defensive-minded players at half-time that we looked better in midfield and attacked with more positivism. It''s only the dressing room will know whether it was the manager''s instructions to keep it tight in the first half or whether it was the players lack of self-belief that resulted in that first-half performance.

 

Sadly, we know Swansea can be beaten with a high-pressing game as we''ve had a good record against them in recent years. Yet we didn''t do it. As I said, only the dressing room knows why. If the manager feels the opposition as goals in them and they are likely to score then he needs to send out a team that is going to score more.

Two other observations. RVW is getting worse. It was noted by commentators he didn''t even come in to meet crosses into the box, but hung behind the last defender hoping for a mistake to happen. Being dropped is not enough, he needs to out on loan to the Championship now, to rekindle his scoring touch. We are not in a position to carry passengers. Secondly, it should be clear the difference Johnson makes to the midfield. He breaks up play and causes all sorts of problems for the opposition. He needs to play. 

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when our own manager admits teams in and around our league position are too good for us alarm bells should start ringing within the club. I can''t think of another manager we have had who has ever praised opposition teams as much as this muppet

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