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Jim Smith

I feel it may be too late already

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I have no idea whether the board have any stomach for a change but even if they do I fear we are already headed for one of the most unforgiveable relegations of our supporting lifetimes. Everything is in place at this club for us to have grasped the opportunity given to us this season to cement our place as a top flight club and we seem intent on throwing it all away by sticking with Hughton and chancing our arm.

A couple of weeks ago we all looked at the fixtures coming up and were unanimous in that we must not lose at Cardiff or West Ham. We have (or should I say he has) managed to do both. Devastating defeats. Defeats against teams that in my view we have looked much better than. Defeats a good manager would have avoided. Defeats our manager has brought upon us though his inability to throw off his completely conservative mindset/approach at any time.

At Cardiff, this manifested itself in the team selection and then refusal to make a change for 25 minutes after we went behind. Last night we saw it in his decision to try and "shut up shop" 15 minutes from the end when we were well on top and they were carrying no threat whatsoever. A good manager would have seized the moment and found a way to win that game. Our manager does the opposite.

Of our last 3 games 2 were important games in the context of our season. The other was not. We lost the two important ones. Ok we played quite well against Man City but the reaction to that game and the praise Hughton got for sticking 11 men behind the ball was over the top. It wasn;t rocket science. We stuck 11 men behind the ball for th most of the game, defended well and when we got a chance gave it to Redmond, our one threat and a player who probably only got picked in that game because of injuries to Snodgrass and Gutierez. Credit where its due though Hughton can drill a team to keep it tight against the big boys at home and they did that well. What he can;t do is in any way act on instinct or proactively to positively influence a game when it is in progress and that is a fairly major flaw for a manager.

We are where we are. I will keep going, i will support the team. I still hope for a change and don;t think its too late but if they stick with him then we have no choice but to get on with it and support the team. However if it results in relegation I will find it very hard to forgive the board for it. This has not crept up on us, it has been evident for 18 months. Mcnally gets a lot of praise for what he''s done at our club despite the fact that I think several elements of our club off pitch have regressed in terms of customer service and value for money. In some ways the club treats its fans in a manner that the previous regime did not.We forgive him that because he brought us Lambert, success and top flight football. Lose that by sticking with Hughton and lets see how long fans put up with things.

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My sentiments entirely. That said i am amazed that we are still out of the bottom 3 albeit by a whisker. We do not have a game until a week on Sunday and to board should have a plan B in place, if they do not then it is an unforgivable failing on their part. We really will need to win most of the remaining 6 pointers and get points from unexpected fixtures. we are by no means down but heading that way quickly if there is no change of direction. Forget the transfer window we need someone to get more out of the resources currently at our disposal. If there is no Board meeting this week then it is an absolute scandal

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Two points Jim made are so spot on I want to repeat and re-emphasise them.

1. We have never had such a good chance to progress and build at this level. Agree 100%. The club ended last season in the healthiest state it has ever been in financially and by some considerable margin. Plus with a squad that, if not the best we''ve ever had, was beginning to look as if it would be up there with that of Stringer and Walkers late 80''s-early 90''s vintage. To stand by and watch the opportunity to really build and sustain it is unforgivable because...

2. It HASN''T been sudden. This has been creeeping up on the club for the best part of that 18 months now, little signs to start with that have, left unchecked, now become a downward plummet with little or no chance of getting out of. I can''t see how we can arrest the slide now-playing well, making chances, all the rest of it-its not going to keep us up, scoring goals and winning points is. We don''t need to see ''encouraging signs'' now or hear how we are going to ''learn lessons'' after another defeat. The time is now. Last night was a must win, so was Cardiff. The games and the opportunities keep slipping away, then, before every subsequent game, that becomes the one we ''must win''; thats the one that should ''kick start a run of points''; thats the one that''ll ''prove he''s the right Manager''. No. No. No.

 

I''m now seeing the usual cries that it isn''t the Managers fault but the players.

 

So when does it become the Managers fault? On that logic if we finished a Premier League season with a record of P38 W0 D0 L38 then that would almost certainly be the ''players fault'' as well-in which case, would no blame be apportioned to the Manager?

 

The sheer frustration and anger is that we seem to  be letting this happen, people are watching it unfold from afar and seem reluctant to do anything about it. Why is this? Do they really have faith that everything will be alright in the end? I can''t believe that they can. I just can''t get my head around why its all being left to slip away with no fight, no reaction and no voice. I''d love us to hang on in there. Relegation would be a disaster, it would set us back more in one deciding game than anything the previous four seasons had set us up for. Are we really going to accept it may well happen and leave it at that?

 

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Whilst I agree with a lot of the points made, I don''t agree with the title of the thread (and by your last paragraph, neither do you!) It''s so close that it certainly isn''t ''already too late'' with around a third of the season still to go. A couple of decent results and you go from prime relegation candidates to top half!

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Aggy, how can you see us go to the top half at the moment. They just can''t score!!! The manager ''s just not man enough to try and do something "adventurous" when his side ''s clearly on top in a game. I am still sooo angry about yesterday...and it''s been a long time ago that I have been so f***ing frustrated ''bout a football match. Decent results? It''ll have to be three pointers against top sides , ''cause we''ve lost against most of the teams around us

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I think Aggy is just saying that it is so tight that if a team were to do that then they would end up much higher very quickly.

It is most certainly not too late. Beat all of Stoke, S''land and WBA at home and we just need one more win elsewhere or some draws to survive. But our current form does not suggest that we will get anywhere near that number of wins. If the Board had the nadgers to act rather than dither, accept CH''s excuses and just hope blindly that things will work out, then a new manager still has time to come in and reinvigorate the squad. A couple of big team meetings, some fresh ideas and thoughts, and some rousing words are probably all we will need to get things going again.

SSN last night were staggered that Hughton took off our most dangerous players and ceded the initiative so willingly.

My work colleagues (none of whom support City) are also very surprised that our Board has been so anaemic.

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If we go down then the board will deemed to have been anaemic.

If we stay up they will be deemed to have been strong enough to stick with the right man.

All depends on results.

Everyone has 20/20 hindsight.

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Whilst Norwich is in the healthiest state it has ever been as a club - it came into this season with the 19th largest operating budget. Hull and Cardiff have both been able to outspend Norwich due to rich benefactors. Yes there are untold millions in the Premier League - but everyone has untold millions in the Premier League. Fighting relegation was always going to be the narrative for this season and whilst Norwich have enough talent to avoid it, even if it does happen it isn''t a massive underachievement.

 

Those who believed Norwich would be pushing Europe this season had their heads in the sand as to what was going on at other clubs - Cardiff were outspending Norwich when they were in the Championship.

 

Everyone is talking as if relegation is a forgone conclusion, when the players have shown they can come back from disappointing results time and time again. There are still 15 games to go this season and whilst some of them are against tough opposition, many are winable. I was told Norwich are on the same points as they were last season in like-for-like games. This season is a long way from over.

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[quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"]

Whilst Norwich is in the healthiest state it has ever been as a club - it came into this season with the 19th largest operating budget. Hull and Cardiff have both been able to outspend Norwich due to rich benefactors. Yes there are untold millions in the Premier League - but everyone has untold millions in the Premier League. Fighting relegation was always going to be the narrative for this season and whilst Norwich have enough talent to avoid it, even if it does happen it isn''t a massive underachievement.

 

Those who believed Norwich would be pushing Europe this season had their heads in the sand as to what was going on at other clubs - Cardiff were outspending Norwich when they were in the Championship.

 

Everyone is talking as if relegation is a forgone conclusion, when the players have shown they can come back from disappointing results time and time again. There are still 15 games to go this season and whilst some of them are against tough opposition, many are winable. I was told Norwich are on the same points as they were last season in like-for-like games. This season is a long way from over.

[/quote]

 

Very well said sir

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[quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"]

Whilst Norwich is in the healthiest state it has ever been as a club - it came into this season with the 19th largest operating budget. Hull and Cardiff have both been able to outspend Norwich due to rich benefactors. Yes there are untold millions in the Premier League - but everyone has untold millions in the Premier League. Fighting relegation was always going to be the narrative for this season and whilst Norwich have enough talent to avoid it, even if it does happen it isn''t a massive underachievement.

 

Those who believed Norwich would be pushing Europe this season had their heads in the sand as to what was going on at other clubs - Cardiff were outspending Norwich when they were in the Championship.

 

Everyone is talking as if relegation is a forgone conclusion, when the players have shown they can come back from disappointing results time and time again. There are still 15 games to go this season and whilst some of them are against tough opposition, many are winable. I was told Norwich are on the same points as they were last season in like-for-like games. This season is a long way from over.

[/quote]

There are only 12 games left for Norwich, I think we''ll end 35-38 points.

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[quote user="Monkey_Nuts"][quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"]

Whilst Norwich is in the healthiest state it has ever been as a club - it came into this season with the 19th largest operating budget. Hull and Cardiff have both been able to outspend Norwich due to rich benefactors. Yes there are untold millions in the Premier League - but everyone has untold millions in the Premier League. Fighting relegation was always going to be the narrative for this season and whilst Norwich have enough talent to avoid it, even if it does happen it isn''t a massive underachievement.

 

Those who believed Norwich would be pushing Europe this season had their heads in the sand as to what was going on at other clubs - Cardiff were outspending Norwich when they were in the Championship.

 

Everyone is talking as if relegation is a forgone conclusion, when the players have shown they can come back from disappointing results time and time again. There are still 15 games to go this season and whilst some of them are against tough opposition, many are winable. I was told Norwich are on the same points as they were last season in like-for-like games. This season is a long way from over.

[/quote] There are only 12 games left for Norwich, I think we''ll end 35-38 points.[/quote]

Whoops, yes. That is what I meant. I think 35 points would probably be enough for survival this season - 38 certainly will be.

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Hit the nail on the head there Jim, excellent post!  (I would have used "quality" to describe it but can no longer even face that word)

All this bleating about being unlucky, etc...you make your own luck, except in Hughton''s case where luck is far too risky a concept (We wouldnt want to try anything imaginative now would we...might lose a valuable away point and clean sheet...oh wait we still didnt get a clean sheet and lost three points to a garbage team, playing garbage football).

Hughton is an total clown...

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Aggy- a couple of decent wins?? Where at please and by decent wins I presume you mean a 1-0 win since if we did score the muppet man goes all defensive. If we scored in the first minute of a game then the players wouldn''t be allowed out our own half so we would invite pressure for 89+ mins and the inevitable would then happen and SHOCK HORROR then the players would be allowed to attack again. It''s unreal how 1 man has taken this club so far backwards yet the board havnt stopped the rot\slide it''s a bloody shame aswell. We''re all fans we''ve all got opinion but I think everyone can agree what''s happening is just not good enough from manager to the board.

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[quote user="dreamteam"]If we go down then the board will deemed to have been anaemic.

If we stay up they will be deemed to have been strong enough to stick with the right man.

All depends on results.

Everyone has 20/20 hindsight.[/quote]

If we stay up it does not mean Hughton is the right man. It will be despite Hughton''s management not because of it. He has already shown enough to prove he''s not the right man.

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Agreed, if we stay up it means the Board will have got lucky. We have looked convincing in about 3 games this season. Excuses for inaction fly left right and centre, all seeking to hide what has been obvious for pretty much the whole of Hughton''s reign.

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It isn''t to late. A change of manager is a must. one win in thirteen!! I don''t think it really matters who

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